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View Full Version : Does this Armageddon fleet need more carriers? [BFG]



Bombot
27-11-2006, 17:32
Still wondering how to put together my starting cruisers and planning my 1500 point Armageddon fleet. Iíve been reading around recommendations on ships and have the following list, but Iím wondering if itís too short on the carrier front:

Fleet Admiral 50
Re-roll 25
Mars (upgraded) 285
Armageddon 245
Tyrant (upgraded) 195
Gothic 180
Strike cruiser 145
Strike cruiser 145
3 Marine Hunters 120
3 Falchions 105

TOTAL 1495

What do you think?

orangesm
27-11-2006, 19:43
I do not think it is lacking in Carriers. The Mars's craft will most likely need to be used for defending your fleet, but the Thunderhawks will be excellent to send on strike missions.

Getz
27-11-2006, 21:05
You should be fine. The Thunderhawks from the Strike Cruisers give you both fighter and assault boat capability - albeit at the cost of being slow - and the Mars is a very capable carrier in general.

That said, I wouldn't be counting on Carrier warfare with that list. For that to work you need Bombers, and your access to them strictly limited.

Incidentally, I know not everyone agrees with me on this one, but I've never got any joy out of Gothics myself. I'd recommend a Lunar or Tyrant over the Gothic every time (although I can see you probably didn't have the right parts to build anything else - stupid Imperial Cruisers, always requiring the Gun battery tile...)

Zhai Morenn
27-11-2006, 21:22
The Strike Cruisers combined with the hunters will make for a beautiful fast and hard hitting force. Bombardment Cannons, Thunderhawk attacks, SM Boarding Torpedos... thats something to worry about.

Nice list.

orangesm
27-11-2006, 22:10
A Gothic is like the book says - an excellent support ship. It should be the last ship to fire in most situations as it is pure lances.

FuriosoShadow
28-11-2006, 00:12
I don't think you're lacking in carriers, but this list could get rocked by...well, most anyone out there. The Armageddon is a useless ship - if you want a non-Mars battlecruiser, take an Overlord. Cheaper and more effective.

Other than that, there's no real problems. You should specialize more (like, the Tyrant and Gothic will be awfully lonely). Also, the upgrade on the Mars is entirely useless. Mars class battlecruisers, contradictory as this seems, shouldn't use their batteries except against Ordnance. They're good for sitting out at 50-60cm and using their lances and Nova Cannons while launching attack craft wings. If they're at 45 cm, they're done. For 270 points, they have the same firepower as a Lunar in a close range fight. Not gonna win.

Getz
28-11-2006, 00:30
I don't think you're lacking in carriers, but this list could get rocked by...well, most anyone out there. The Armageddon is a useless ship - if you want a non-Mars battlecruiser, take an Overlord. Cheaper and more effective.

Other than that, there's no real problems. You should specialize more (like, the Tyrant and Gothic will be awfully lonely). Also, the upgrade on the Mars is entirely useless. Mars class battlecruisers, contradictory as this seems, shouldn't use their batteries except against Ordnance. They're good for sitting out at 50-60cm and using their lances and Nova Cannons while launching attack craft wings. If they're at 45 cm, they're done. For 270 points, they have the same firepower as a Lunar in a close range fight. Not gonna win.

I disagree about the Armageddon class. Although the Overlord is better overall, I've found the Armageddon has excellent synergy with the Mars class and will best an Overlord in a gun fight once it gets within 45cm, so it's certainly far from useless.

FuriosoShadow
28-11-2006, 01:04
The point of the Overlord is to sit out at 60 and pound 'em =P.

I find the Armageddon not to be specialized enough, although I suppose it could synergy well enough.

Bombot
28-11-2006, 09:27
I do like the look of the Overlord. Sadly, it’s not in the Armageddon fleet list!

As Getz indicated, I’m really trying to do what I can with the starting cruisers, hence the Gothic. The upgrade on the Mars I gathered might help against Eldar, but I could lose it to upgrade some escorts.

Getz
28-11-2006, 09:44
The point of the Overlord is to sit out at 60 and pound 'em =P.

Yeah, but as a player of the Chaos fleet where I have no shortage of 60cm guns, that's easier said than done - If the enemy is determined to get in range you are unlikely to stop them...

None of which stops the Overlord being a great Battlecruiser (it's effectively two thirds of a Retribution) but if you're counting on staying out of range ultimately that ain't gonna work...

CELS
28-11-2006, 10:53
And having faced Chaos more than once, let me tell you that having some ships stay out of the enemy's range is far from impossible. Obviously, the enemy will get within range if he really wants to, just by driving right towards you. You can't prevent that, but you can stop that from being a tempting prospect by how you position your ships. For example, put a squadron of Dominators (or other deadly short-ranged cruisers) between your enemy and your long range support, or even a battleship, and your opponent will think twice about just zooming forward recklessly.

There have been a few times where I've had to sustain the long range barrage of chaos cruisers, simply because moving straight to the back of the enemy's lines would lose me the chance to do real damage to the enemy for a few turns, whilst making me excessively vulnerable.

As for your list... in my eyes, it looks a bit vulnerable. First of all, it has two battlecruisers and two strikecruisers. These certainly pack a punch, but they're also quite vulnerable for their point cost. Second, you have two very small escort squadrons. If you plan to put these squadrons together to form one big squadron, you're wasting the points that are paid for the Hunters' extra speed. Having some ships in a squadron 5 cm faster than others is alright, but 10 cm is a waste. You'd be better of with a large squadron of cobras or a large squadron of falchions. (Hunters are excellent, but expensive, and I think your list is a bit vulnerable already) If you plan to field these two small squadrons seperately, I think you'll find that they have a hard time doing damage. The slightest enemy attack will force you to brace, and the tiny salvo fired by the Falchions will be ineffective against enemies with massed turret fire.

As for the lack of dedicated carriers, I see no problem there. Your fleet seems more than capable of protecting itself against enemy ordnance.

Getz
28-11-2006, 11:17
Actually, CELS, you make a good point. I was thinking of an entire fleet shooting at 60cm, rather than a single vessel hanging back. Not the same thing at all...

It's not so difficult to prevent the enemy getting at any vessels firing from the back of your formation.

Bombot
28-11-2006, 11:19
I was planning on sending the Hunters forward and hanging back with the Falchions to act as a small reserve. I was originally planning to use Firestorms for this but not many people seem to like them, so I went with Falchions.

I kind of had fluffy reasons in mind for having Navy and Marine escorts but maybe I’ll go with losing the Mars upgrade and a single squadron of 6 Hunters instead of the current escort configuration.

Zhai Morenn
28-11-2006, 14:25
I'd say to roll with a large squadron of hunters. Yes thats a hearty investment of points but you also get a str 12 salvo of SM boarding torpedos. Brutal in most circumstances.

FuriosoShadow
28-11-2006, 16:23
The Overlord is, however, in the...Obscuras? list, maybe? There's some list that has every Imperial ship except the Dominator.

Getz
28-11-2006, 16:29
That would be the Bastion Fleet List, but you can't take SM ships in that (nor the Oberon Battleship and Voss light cruisers IIRC)

FuriosoShadow
29-11-2006, 01:18
Is that right? Huh. I never regard the Space Marine ships (never got into them as a race in BFG) or the Oberon (for 10 points more, an Emperor is much much better), or Voss cruisers (you can't buy them, and I prefer the Dauntless).

My bad.

Getz
29-11-2006, 01:23
Gotta agree with you there - I use the Bastion fleet list for my Imperial Navy task force...

FuriosoShadow
29-11-2006, 02:38
I use it in games where I wanna bring my Apocalypse class Battleship, but usually I use Dominators, so often I can't. It makes me sad that the Apocalypse can't hang out with the Dominators =(.