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John Vaughan
05-12-2006, 14:43
If you had your own, personally designed necron troop choice, what would it look like? :evilgrin:

I was thinking of claws, but they would be too much like flayed ones. Any ideas?

Covering Fire
05-12-2006, 14:46
Maybe not a troops choice...but I would like to see a big, badass Necron walker! Something akin to a dreadnought with nasty claws and heavy gauss weaponry. That would be cool...

Hideous Loon
05-12-2006, 14:49
Like a Tomb Scorpion, if we're going to continue the insect trend. A large, walking Dread-like thing with large claws and a Heavy Gauss cannon in the tail.

Much like the famous TS Scorp, but what the frag.

A7X
05-12-2006, 14:51
Forgeworld Crypt Stalker?

John Vaughan
05-12-2006, 14:51
I like that idea. I guess I didnt close my poll...Jeez, its like I was born yesterday...

Anyway, a walker with big guns? KEWL! Yes, the necrons need some lighter vehicle power. With only the monolith to choose from, where have you to customize? I guess it could also be the first and only Walker troop choice as well. :evilgrin:

Hellebore
05-12-2006, 15:06
The necron background says that each C'tan had their own unique servants, the Dragon's being the most technologically advanced.

I have always liked the idea that each god had a different type of necron follower depending on their predilictions. So the deceiver's necrons would exhibit different abilities to those of the Outsider.

Hellebore

Lexmechanic
05-12-2006, 15:20
Fast necron skirmishing unit with gauss pistols in both hands. More agile and meaner looking than a common necron.

Maybe fluffwise a terrorstriker ie. attacks at night. only lightsource the green pulsating light of their weapons pulling the materia out of their victims .Streets echo with screams. And when the battle comes nearer the backbone of the enemys morale is broken.

That would be nice:evilgrin:

Defenestratus
05-12-2006, 15:22
I'd like to see a necron troop choice that makes the necron race disappear completely from the 40k universe a la squat style :P

the creator
05-12-2006, 15:28
cultists? slaves? mortal worshippers of the C'tan?

i like the idea that even when in close combat, their necron masters firing into the melee no matter the cost to their worshippers lives.

its already a fluff "yes" as there are stories etc about mortal worshippers of the star gods, even whole planets ruled by the cruel necrontyr.

Scythe
05-12-2006, 15:33
No need to design something new; I would transfer flayed ones to the troops selection...;)

Defenestratus
05-12-2006, 15:33
i like the idea that even when in close combat, their necron masters firing into the melee no matter the cost to their worshippers lives.

its already a fluff "yes" as there are stories etc about mortal worshippers of the star gods, even whole planets ruled by the cruel necrontyr.


Ahhh yes... just what the necrons need... yet another unit that requires little, to no tactical skill to use whatsoever! Sign me up!
:)

Deadite
05-12-2006, 15:33
I'd like to see Immortals and Flayed Ones moved to the troops category, with the caveat that only 1 or the other can be taken per normal Necron Warriors choice.
i.e. 1 Necron Warrior unit allows access to 1 Immortal unit or 1 Flayed One unit.

Not a drastic change considering many armies end up using 30-60 warriors and 10-20 immortals regularly, but at least the Elites slots would be freed up for something more exotic if points allow and maybe draw some folks into using something different.

Then, add some to the elites... perhaps a Walker as some suggested or an expansion on the Pariah hybrid... maybe some mini-Lord + retinues or some such... maybe even move the Tomb Spyders to Elites (but only in units of 1).
Just some thoughts.

Darkseer
05-12-2006, 15:36
"Hip Ones"

Basically a necron warrior with two gauss pistols and a cowboy hat.

They can move and shoot twice with their pistols, or remain stationary and shoot 4 times.

Yeehawl!

azazel_fallenangel
05-12-2006, 15:38
I came up with an idea a while ago for a Necron Enslaver. It looks like a Tomb Spider, but with metal tentacles insted of claws. These would latch into a poor infantrys mind via the nerves in the back of the neck and cause them to fall under necron control.
In game terms, just a Tomb Spider without the ability to ignore saves, and any wounds against infantry would allow the necron player to gain control of them, using their weapons and stats. They would then require a Ld test to be shot at as no-one likes to shoot at they're comrade.
A maximum of 6 or so can be controlled, and killed at will off to make room for better slaves.
Could have a few problems, i don't know, please give feedback.

Fear is the mind killer
05-12-2006, 15:56
Back when the fist necron list came out (the one with the exploding scarabs) we decided that their heavy support should include a walker, using the epic warlord titan model, as its guns look like more powerful versions of the old gauss rifles. You could certainly convert one so that it was a powerful super necron with twin heavy gauss cannons and living metal and AV 13 on all sides.

I reckon that Necrons should be allowed to have 0-3 flayed ones as a troops choice limited to 1 per necron warrior unit. Elites choices are too valuable for getting immortals with and flayed ones are really underused, so why not?

Rowenstin
05-12-2006, 16:36
when read the poll I imagined a troop of necrons with the lower body resembling a centipede, less armored and armed with a less potent gauss gun, but able to cross impassable terrain and fleet

hiveminion
05-12-2006, 17:00
I'd like to see a Necron unit armed with enormous swords, maybe counting as power fists. Don't know why, it just sounds cool to me.

Or perhaps a unit of piratical looking Necrons, fighting with pistols and cutlasses. They may have been cursed by the Old Ones, unable to eat apples for all eternity, and chasing a living, formar member of their crew, a Captain named 'Jack Sparrow'.

Or is that not very original?

Mr Zephy
05-12-2006, 17:13
Maybe necrons who have grappling claws for hands and gauss guns in their mouths. they'd get move through cover and would be (a bit) better than warriors in assault.

Helicon_One
05-12-2006, 18:14
Claws? Axes? Pah, where's the 'guns' option?

I want a Warrior variant with 'Guass Shredders' - an Assault 3, 12" range version of the Flayer.

Tim

Sick
05-12-2006, 18:26
Shredder sounds good but I would make it 12" S4 Assault 1 Rending. :p
Now THAT is shredding.
(though it might sound funny besides the Gauss rule...Gauss+Rending:wtf: )

6-10 Necron "Shredders" in a squad would sound like fun.

RampagingRavener
05-12-2006, 18:32
New Necron troops choice? Just boot Flayed Ones into troops. Sorted. They're not really that powerful, so arn't going to be overpowered feilded in large numbers in troops. It also gives a clear seperation between the basic 'Cron assault unit (Flayers) and the elite 'Cron assault unit (Pariahs, though they desperatly need a tune up).

Zzarchov
05-12-2006, 18:37
Well I like the "faceless legion" aspect of Necrons that limits you to one troop choice.

I think it would be better though if you could choose what that solo troop choice was.

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing, a "Phalanx" style unit of warriors. Storm Shield and Heavy Close Combat weapons (with the Gauss effect)

John Vaughan
05-12-2006, 19:47
I think the idea of making flayed ones a troop choice is a good idea. I also like the previously mentioned idea of having necrons with huge swords. That sounds awesome. Why are the flayed ones under elites anyway?

Mobiboros
05-12-2006, 20:14
As a Necron player, what I've seen lacking is flexibility.

Necron Warriors are always the same. There's no unit upgrades or special weapons.

It's not just warriors, it's all units save the Lord really. No unit is ever different. So other players almost always know what they will be facing. Your strategy in playing them is almost always the same as well, even if your tactics differ.

So, give them unit upgrades. Allow some modularity.
Allow Warriors to have veteran types in a squad that have power weapons. Allow some to be upgraded to carry heavy weapons.

Give immortals some extra abilities. Maybe allow them to purchase an upgraded WBB roll, for +1 on the roll.

Allow Wraiths to buy either rending or power weapons (not sure which makes more sense).

More wargear for Lords, for a bit more variety (Hell, allow them to buy the Pariahs warscythe).

More vehicles. I don't use monoliths at all. Give me some more variety in vehicles. Maybe some walkers. Definitely some more lighter skimmers.

Scarabs. Not sure ehere but something needs to be done.

Necrons really need a big overhaul.

John Vaughan
05-12-2006, 20:19
That is an extremely good comment. If immortals could lead squads of warrior, like a sargeant or something, that would be kool. Pariahs really need a WWB roll. I also agree on vehicles. Like someone mentioned before, the forge world crypt stalker, or something like it would be good. That is pretty much the extent of my complaints.

Norminator
05-12-2006, 20:22
There was a rumour (I think it was debunked) of a unit called Jackals or something floating about that I thought sounded very interesting. Essentially they were Necrons with melta like weapons, and IIRC had close combat abilities similar to Pariahs (though I think they were more staff of light than Warschythe like).

Otherwise, yes, a Walker would be drool inspiring.

John Vaughan
05-12-2006, 20:24
Hmmm...I think I also heard that somewhere...Very Egyptian!

Melta weapons would be awesome for the Necrons!

Norminator
05-12-2006, 20:27
Exactly what I thought, and it's something that I felt sounded really evocative of the Necrons. It would be interesting if they were very powerful weapons wise but weak defensively compared to things like Pariahs and Immortals (normal warrior stats and a small unit size?). Would certainly make tactics that utilised them more varied.

chaos0xomega
05-12-2006, 21:08
A squad that carries a big red 'I Win' button.

John Vaughan
05-12-2006, 21:39
I completely agree. The same can be said with tyranids or IG. Large numbers=victory. The same cannot currently be said about the necrons.:(

damiengore
05-12-2006, 22:57
gauss whips/tendrils

Tau Man
06-12-2006, 00:41
what would you call the shredder's weapons?

Vault Dweller
06-12-2006, 02:06
C'tan Cultists

Maybe like chaos cultists, but with necron implants on them. This may not sound too good, but imagine if they had an option to take a pariah along as a sergeant.

Fluff wise it would make sense, there's a quote in the necron codex (p.63) that describes pariahs leading human slaves around.

Toastrider
06-12-2006, 02:18
I'm gonna have to go with the 'move Flayed Ones to troops' votes here. Having played around with the Necron taxidermists, I've found they really don't deserve their Elite slot.

A walker would be nice, though.

--TR

Gearux
06-12-2006, 02:25
I like the idea of phalanx troops (whoever said that i tip my hat to you kind sir). I think we should look at the Eldar list and consider making destroyers a troop choice, but make warriors 1+ choice to enforce that they are the main stay of the Necron forces. Also this just from a fluff stand point but ithink that immortals should be made more powerful and be used as a body/honor guard unit for necron lords. Like wsie some destroyer style immortals would be cool.

Poisonpen
06-12-2006, 02:36
I have had strong opinions about the Necron list for quite some time. I feel nothing needs to be added per se, except a lesser vehicle option, but much needs to be rearranged. I would make scarab swarms the new troop choice at 0-1 for each unit of warriors you have. Still balanced and now Necrons can play in a 500 point game and not all have the same list...

Other ideas for non-troop Necrons:

Immortals are 5+ in a unit, yet every other elite is 4+ Why? Make them all 4+

Give Pariahs a Deep-Strike option. Keep them limited in movement otherwise.

Flayed Ones shouldn't be troops IMO (doesn't troop imply common?) but need to be improved slightly... I think they are pretty good now, but are overshadowed by better options.

Warriors are good, very good.

Scarabs as 0-1 troop for every unit of warriors (as stated above).

Wraiths seem like they should have rending, but lower their strength if they get it. Also, give them a 3+ armor save in addition to inv.

Destroyers are very fine.

New fast-attack vehicle that is similar to the monolith, but trades offense for simple teleport-y movement abilities. Think monolith without res abilities, or huge guns. I like this as every army should be able to get a certain level of complex play going on. Perhaps infiltrating, but immobile with res. powers? Like a pillar or tower thing. Maybe a small gun too. Utility vehicle (think drop-pod)

Monolith is fine (maybe a little more expensive?)

Rest of heavy support is good as is.

Just my thoughts on the subject...

Mobiboros
06-12-2006, 02:53
Give Pariahs a Deep-Strike option. Keep them limited in movement otherwise.

This would be good, so long as the lord, or possibly units could take something akin to a teleport homer.



Flayed Ones shouldn't be troops IMO (doesn't troop imply common?) but need to be improved slightly...

Troops don't necessarily imply common. The Eldar FoC allows for aspect warriors, rangers and wraithguard as troops. None of which are "common".

Actually, this could tie in to the altering of warriors to have veterans. Keep Flayed Ones as Elites, but allow them to have upgrades and veterans as well. Maybe their troop leader could have a warscythe.



Scarabs as 0-1 troop for every unit of warriors (as stated above).

This is similar to how Necron were back in 2nd edition originally I believe. Then again scarabs also blew up back then.

Wraiths seem like they should have rending, but lower their strength if they get it. Also, give them a 3+ armor save in addition to inv.



*snip vehicle ideas*

They need a bigger variety of vehicles. If they are "immobile" I'd say they need to deepstrike into play and then must stay where they land. Smaller, faster skimmers would be very useful. As is, scarabs and wraith as the only fast attack is just not good. Possibly also a heavy vehicle that is an alternative to the monolith.



Monolith is fine (maybe a little more expensive?)

I think it costs about right as is. In fact I don't use them because they are really too expensive for my tastes.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
06-12-2006, 04:14
C'tan The Outsider : (HQ)

The Outsider has arisin from his Dyson Sphere, a powerful but utterly insane
C'tan bent on taking over the galaxy for its own demented means. Outsider
had the least amount of followers and as such uses more pure robotic constructs. Those he did have follow him have either turned into distorted insane assassins or given the chance to become his mighty guardians.

Necron Androids : (Troops)

Androids unlike other necrons can be destroyed but are cheap and easy to produce. These purely robotic servants are based on the old immortals. Androids come in squads of 20 and unlike their warrior brethren, they can be totally destroyed. When androids are defeated they have a built in self-destruct mechanism that destroys the enemy around it making it a powerful troop. The Outsider uses these as he had the least amount of necron warriors.

Necron Cyborgs : (Troops)

Cyborgs are troops which are humans which have been augmented with necron implants to turn them into mindless drones to serve the necrons. They are usually seen as lessers and as such used purely as scouts.

Necron Asassins : (Elites)

Assassins are made of living liquid metal which can reform into any shape similar to the C'tan. These asassins are infiltrators and can turn their arms into any kind of weapon to cut through the enemy. They are a close combat infiltration troop.

Necron Tomb Guardians : (Elites)

The few warriors the Outsider had were given the chance to become Guardians. A terrifying variation of the immortal equiped with particle projector and light gauss flayer too.

Necron Gauss Scarabs : (Fast Attack)

These scarabs are a larger and more deadly version equiped with a light Gauss flayer. They are just as fast as their smaller brethren but even more deadly, Gauss scarab swarms are in smaller number of 5-8 models.

Necron Tomb Scorpions : (Heavy Support)

These awesome robotic scorpions rip through the enemy lines with their powerful claws, while their tails fire a heavy particle projector as a long range. They are slow but very powerful and take a beating.

the_dark_sarge
06-12-2006, 04:24
well i reckon they should have devastator like necrons
with guns like part of them

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
06-12-2006, 04:25
Thats a good idea :)

Tyndareus
06-12-2006, 06:16
A Necron walker would be pretty cool, or another lighter viechle. A closecombat troop choice would be good though.

azazel_fallenangel
06-12-2006, 10:23
What is this "Forge World Crypt Stalker" i'm reading here? I thouhgt the only thing that Forge World did for the poor unloved Necrons was that stupid looking Pylon?

Dat Wildboy
06-12-2006, 10:30
2 words: gauss flamers.

basically a necron warrior with a flamer template weapon.

jubilex
06-12-2006, 10:53
How about a "sarchophagous" warrior that, when it dies, sends out a swarm, 1-3 bases maybe of scarabs a la goblin fanatics. 0-1 per squad, perhaps. I like the idea of c'tan specific abilities/types, that would add a fair bit of character to a bland looking force, imo.

John Vaughan
06-12-2006, 14:40
My favorite idea so far is the "Necron Assassins." Those sound like flayed ones, but in a cooler, more insane sense.

Norminator
06-12-2006, 16:03
The assassins remind me very much of the Terminator 1000 - which would be very cool!

Ventris_Fellstorm
06-12-2006, 16:16
What is this "Forge World Crypt Stalker" i'm reading here? I thouhgt the only thing that Forge World did for the poor unloved Necrons was that stupid looking Pylon?

Well, the so-called "Crypt Stalker" showed up in the Fall of Medusa V campaign this year, it was in the Necron report at some point.

It was described as a gigantic Tomb Spider, (or was it a Scorpion?) try the size of a warhound Titan...:D

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Duskraven
06-12-2006, 16:22
Maybe not a troop choice, but i always thought that a Necron that resembled Alexander from final fantasy 9 would be cool. 2 front hands, no back legs just a body that it pulled along. very big with large shoulder mounted weapons of Necron death

John Vaughan
06-12-2006, 17:04
Wow! I havent seen the crypt stalker, but I know the warhound titan. Thats huge! A smaller scale crypt stalker would be nice...

Dais
06-12-2006, 17:53
Fast necron skirmishing unit with gauss pistols in both hands. More agile and meaner looking than a common necron

you plucked the thought from my mind. the only thing different i was thinking is to wrist mount the pistols to get away from the cowboy/mobster look.

Ventris_Fellstorm
06-12-2006, 19:01
Wow! I havent seen the crypt stalker, but I know the warhound titan. Thats huge! A smaller scale crypt stalker would be nice...

Let me make this clear...they haven't made any model of it!

They just put it in the storyline for Medusa V...that's all...

snatcheroo
06-12-2006, 20:18
I posted this in the 'New Necron Battleforce thread as well but thought it was appropriate for here too.

If I were to rewrite the codex I don't think I'd add a second troop choice. Perhaps some weapons options though.
What I would do though, which would add to the troop choices in a way, is change Scarabs so that they can be used sort of like Tau Drones. This would of course require some testing to ensure balancing and what not but here is what I propose.
As a fast choice you could still have a large unit of scarab swarms (as in the current codex) but there would also be the option of adding swarms to non-scarab units.
Aside from adding all around fluffiness, this would increase the viability of Pariahs and Flayed Ones. Almost everyone knows that these guys can be tough to use effectively and in many cases will be shot to **** before getting into close combat. Adding a couple of swarms to a unit would give them some extra wounds, increasing survivability prior to assault.
For balancing purposes, I would consider the following change. A unit of 'type necron' would either have 'we'll be back' or 'swarm control' which basically makes you decide between we'll be back or extra wounds for each unit. However, a unit with 'swarm control' that is with in 6" of an HQ unit would get to make 'we'll be back rolls' (perhaps with penalty to the roll or something).
Points wise the two options would be included in the units basic cost. So a unit of warriors with the 'we'll be back' option would cost the same as one with 'swarm control' (Pariahs would have 'swarm control' included). However, the additional cost of each swarm (max 2 swarms per unit) would be added to the unit total.


Moving Flayed Ones to troops is a good idea as well, and would still work with the above idea :D

Mobiboros
06-12-2006, 20:27
On the broader topic of army changes.

I toyed with the idea of a 2 changes to Pariahs:
1) Make them the Lords retinue rather than a standalone unit (Maybe like 3-12 in a retinue).
2) Allow them to teleport with the Lord (if he has teleport. This would mean that if he's with his retinue the Lord couldn't use the Monolith teleport.).

This way you limit their numbers, but allow them to be effective. You don't even need to give them WBB. Just make those 2 changes and I think they'd be a drastically more useful unit.

John Vaughan
06-12-2006, 23:43
I like that idea, though WWB is what I would want added. The problem is that they woud then cost as much as SM terminators (A LOT of points for those who didn't know).

VenrableOne
07-12-2006, 05:27
Has anyone looked at epic in the specialist games for ideas?

http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/NecronV32.pdf

The obelisk is the only thing that would fit into 40k. Though it is not a troop choice. The abattoir and aeonic orb being too large.

As to a troop choice. Maybe some members of the cult of the red harvest. An expendable mob of adeptus mechanicus that doesn't affect phase out and has no wbb.

Warp-Rider
07-12-2006, 05:43
Fast necron skirmishing unit with gauss pistols in both hands. More agile and meaner looking than a common necron.

Maybe fluffwise a terrorstriker ie. attacks at night. only lightsource the green pulsating light of their weapons pulling the materia out of their victims .Streets echo with screams. And when the battle comes nearer the backbone of the enemys morale is broken.

That would be nice:evilgrin:

In 40k, there is no skirmishers.

Fear is the mind killer
07-12-2006, 12:48
Has anyone looked at epic in the specialist games for ideas?

http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/NecronV32.pdf

The obelisk is the only thing that would fit into 40k. Though it is not a troop choice. The abattoir and aeonic orb being too large.

As to a troop choice. Maybe some members of the cult of the red harvest. An expendable mob of adeptus mechanicus that doesn't affect phase out and has no wbb.
Well in my earlier post in this thread (which has mysteriously been deleted) I mentioned that when the first necron list came out (in 3rd ed. with the scarabs that blew up), we decided that you could use the epic warlord titan as a heavy support choice. The necrons at the time had a similar look about them and the titan's guns looked a lot like heavy gauss cannons and the warlord has a skull for a head. Besides the necrons are entitled to some sort of walker, and a sort of wraithlord-like model would be so cool. I reckon AV 13on all sides combined with the living metal rule would be fair.

As for some of the adeptus mechanicus turning to worship the Dragon, I reckon that such a situation is best left for a worldwide campaign at some point in the future. There could be a big uprising of the necron race, and marines could choose to have necron upgrades and some other penalties to balance it out if they turned against the Imperium and fought for the Dragon. The same could apply for primitive or very advanced guard armies, with the rest of the armies in 40k using the confusion at the heart of the Imperium to launch attacks while the borders aren't as well reinforced. The winner of the campaign would determine whether or not the Golden throne is moved to another planet, or if the Dragon's sarcophagus is forced to evacuate his planet, with the other races getting a few perks if they expand their territories during the campaign.

Mobiboros
07-12-2006, 13:18
(in 3rd ed. with the scarabs that blew up),

Was it 3rd edition or very late second edition?

They debuted in White Dwarf and there was only 2 units initially. I'd need to see if I still have the issue. The scarabs also could land on vehicles and reduce the armour value for each scarab on the vehicle. Plus the disruption fields had some cumulative effect which I want to say reduced weapon strength or armour values in a certain area.

Over time more and more units were added to their lists.

The Codex finally appeared in 3rd edition.

Fear is the mind killer
07-12-2006, 13:23
Both 2nd and 3rd is when the scarabs blew up. The story is that their rules were developed for 3rd ed. but it took a while for 3rd ed. to be sorted out so they had to turn the 3rd ed. rules into 2nd ed. rules. It was bloomin' hard to kill scarabs at first because weapons didn't work up close to them and they had T 8. There was this one battle where we didn't have long range heavy weapons so we had to improvise and let the rhino run the scarabs over (even with the engine turned off by the disruption, the momentum would result in the rhino still going for a short distance).

Mobiboros
07-12-2006, 13:52
Both 2nd and 3rd is when the scarabs blew up. The story is that their rules were developed for 3rd ed. but it took a while for 3rd ed. to be sorted out so they had to turn the 3rd ed. rules into 2nd ed. rules. It was bloomin' hard to kill scarabs at first because weapons didn't work up close to them and they had T 8. There was this one battle where we didn't have long range heavy weapons so we had to improvise and let the rhino run the scarabs over (even with the engine turned off by the disruption, the momentum would result in the rhino still going for a short distance).

I thought so.

Yeah, I remember games where I had literally 10 scarabs on a vehicle, reducing it's armour to 0 at times. Which effectively meant every hit after that was penetrating.

That right! The disruption field turned weapons off. Which meant inside the field ranged weapons didn't work, power weapons turned off. Scarabs could bog down terminators (although, at the time you could leave close combat. The enermy just got free attacks on you), and then explode on them. Good times.

The WBB roll was only 1 in 6 (Although phase out was likeiwse 1 in 6, with a 4 in 6 chance of the guy just staying as junk till you rolled again next turn)

Necrons have changed quite a bit since then.
Granted they still need another major overhauling.

There's just a lack of variety of weapons and unit choices. Hell, have weapons options that aren't gauss weapons. It's not like all their weapons are gauss as is.

Funkyodor
07-12-2006, 13:58
I like the idea of flayed ones or pariahs becoming troop choices, but 1 per 'full' warriors squad. Or that a full squad can be a troops choice, kinda like Wraithguard now.

John Vaughan
07-12-2006, 14:23
Yeah, flayed ones would be used more if they were troops. Now they are overshadowed by immortals and such.

Angelus Mortis
08-12-2006, 00:20
Four choices in your poll and 3 of them are melee and 1 is whatever? Odd choices for a shooty army. I dont get it. They already are awesome shooty army and tough as nails and difficult to keep down, and you want to make them good at melee too? Good luck with that. :rolleyes:

MrBigMr
08-12-2006, 01:32
They'd look like Necrontyr.
It's a project I have underway, but isn't realy going anywhere at the moment, as I need parts and I have bigger, more important projects in the making.
Basicly I'm planning on making a Necrontyr army (in your face, Pre-Heresy Marines). Make Warriors into Necrontyrs. Thanks to the guide in Firebase #1 on the cultists, I got the working idea for the models. Take the same format, but replace the Cadian torso with a Chaos Marine one, file off any markings and add a cloak on the back (propable a Wood Elf one). Cover the face with some green stuff to make it look like a piece of cloth. Remodel the Marine shoulder pads to look like the Necron carapace. Replace bolter with Gauss Flayer.
Should work.

The whole idea began from a small modelling project to make a Necron Lord to be an actual Necrontyr. He'd wear a special armor that keeps him alive, sort of like a Terminator size Golden Throne.

VenrableOne
08-12-2006, 13:17
Besides the necrons are entitled to some sort of walker, and a sort of wraithlord-like model would be so cool. I reckon AV 13on all sides combined with the living metal rule would be fair.

I'm not a fan of everyone having walkers. To me, it takes away some of the uniqueness of some armies. I see the obelisk filling that roll.


As for some of the adeptus mechanicus turning to worship the Dragon, I reckon that such a situation is best left for a worldwide campaign at some point in the future.

Thats how I see it happening.


The winner of the campaign would determine whether or not the Golden throne is moved to another planet, or if the Dragon's sarcophagus is forced to evacuate his planet, with the other races getting a few perks if they expand their territories during the campaign.

Moving the golden throne would be a bit much. Maybe just waking up the dragon.

max the dog
08-12-2006, 13:26
How about a weak but absurdly cheap unit so Necron players could have a chance to play horde type armies. Make it weak all around with no ability higher than a 2 or 3, slow, no armor save but with the we'll be back rule and massive troop numbers. Necron players need a meat/metal shield and tarpit units. It would also hold off the Phase Out a little bit longer.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
08-12-2006, 13:48
Yeah, I dont like the necrons having walkers, I prefer all their tech to be like the destroyers/monolith, its more alien and more interesting and seperates them more from the others. Lets bring out the Obelisk!!

and Max the dog, thats why I want the "necron androids" to fill that kind of purpose :)

John Vaughan
08-12-2006, 14:26
Well, if not a walker, I think that another, smaller version of the monolith is needed. Vehicle support is what the necrons need, and most people can only take one (if that). About the absurdly cheap necrons, that would sound too much like metallic nids. Just stick with absurdly expensive troop choices (with a new kind of melee ability).

Fear is the mind killer
08-12-2006, 14:33
Well in my earlier post in this thread (which has mysteriously been deleted) I mentioned that when the first necron list came out (in 3rd ed. with the scarabs that blew up), we decided that you could use the epic warlord titan as a heavy support choice.

Who keeps sneakily deleting my posts?!:mad: Now the post that Venrable One was replying to has been deleted as well.

Mobiboros
08-12-2006, 14:51
They don't need a walker. In fact it would not fit the army because walk implies a vehicle that is piloted of some kind.
However, another Monstrous Creature would be welcome. That could be customized with various weapons (gauss weapons, particle projectors, warscythes, etc...). Akin to the rolls the Wraithlords and Dreadnaughts fulfill.

Vehicle support would be very nice. Lighter vehicles than the Monolith would be nice.

My suggestions so far:
HQ:
Need more wargear/customizability.
IMO the res Orb shouldn't be wargear it should just be an inherent power of the lord.
Pariahs should be the Lords retinue, and at least be able to teleport with him.

Troops:
Flayed Ones moved to Troops.
Units should have upgrades, with "veteran" types with wargear (As is, the disruption fields are really completely pointless on warriors)

Elites:
With Flayed Ones in troops, another Elites option besides Immortals.
Perhaps a heavy-weapons unit. Or a unit with particle projectors.
Like troops, allow for some upgrades in units.

Fast Attack:
Destroyers are good at is.
Wraiths need something. Either power weapons or rending. Maybe with a unit max size of 5 instead of 3 as well.
Scarabs. I don't know. I'm inclined to say that there should be 2 varieties of them. 1 as current that you can take as fast attack. One that accompanies warrior units. Necron art always depicts warriors walking with spiderlike things crawling along with them. Gotta be something to do there.

Heavy Support:
More light vehicles. The monolith is a huge monstrosity and I know that due to points cost and actual model size, I don't use any. And I know others who feel same. Light vehicles, or monstrous creatures would be welcome.

If a "Cultist" list was done, I'd almost be tempted to say they couldn't fight alongside standard Necron. You could have Pariahs, maybe Scarabs and the C'Tan, but not anyone with the "Necron" ability. This is mainly a fluff thing as it's fairly obvious that Necron hate the fleshy things.

Fear is the mind killer
08-12-2006, 14:58
Maybe the wraiths could have both the rending and ignore invulnerable saves ability, due to their phasing in and out of reality.

I was thinking of another unit possibility, similar to drop pods, only instead of acting as transports these immobile crystals could have some negative effect on organic life within 12", such as radioactive damage. It could be used to dissuade the opponent from going near certain sections of the battlefield, though it would be debatable whether or not the necrons would be harmed as they can be hurt by vespid guns.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
08-12-2006, 15:09
'I was thinking of another unit possibility, similar to drop pods, only instead of acting as transports these immobile crystals could have some negative effect on organic life within 12", such as radioactive damage. It'

Thats a pretty neat idea I have to say.

MrBigMr
08-12-2006, 15:35
I once made a nice Necron warmachine on the VDR.
Named as Necropolis, it basicly would be a sort hovering Necron gorgon (the Forge World thingy), transporting tons of troops, taking hits and asking for seconds. I got the idea from that old movie, in which a huge monolith landed on Earth and started sucking up all the energy.
Anyways, it would be like the Monolith, but a warmachine with lots of structure points, lots of transport capability, strong Arc Flux and turbo boosted Heavy Gauss Cannons, capable of levelling anything.
It ended up being about 3000pts.

I agree with the no-walker doctrine. Doesn't realy fit the style of hovering stuff.

Mobiboros
08-12-2006, 15:54
Maybe the wraiths could have both the rending and ignore invulnerable saves ability, due to their phasing in and out of reality.

That would necessitate a bigger points bump which might make them not worth it. A slight points bump and rending is good enough, with larger units maybe.



*snip drop poddish idea*

Simplify. Make it an immobile obelisk that acts as a Gauss Flux Arc like on the monolith but with shorter range (6" radius) but you can take a squad of 1-3. You also have to deepstrike them into play.

Fear is the mind killer
08-12-2006, 20:11
Well if it's only a 6" radius it could be hard to make good use of what with the scattering when deep striking. How about 1-3 deep striking obelisks with a 6+D6" (or perhaps 9") gauss flux arc (randomly rolled each turn). The gauss flux arc isn't generated until the turn after it lands on the table. This allows you to plonk them down in dense areas of terrain giving the enemy a turn to find and destroy them before they seriously disrupt their plan for advancing, so the necrons have a way of deterring the enemy from avoiding the worst of their firepower by going through dense terrain.

guillimansknight
08-12-2006, 21:46
As a Necron player, what I've seen lacking is flexibility.

Necron Warriors are always the same. There's no unit upgrades or special weapons.

It's not just warriors, it's all units save the Lord really. No unit is ever different. So other players almost always know what they will be facing. Your strategy in playing them is almost always the same as well, even if your tactics differ.

So, give them unit upgrades. Allow some modularity.
Allow Warriors to have veteran types in a squad that have power weapons. Allow some to be upgraded to carry heavy weapons.

Give immortals some extra abilities. Maybe allow them to purchase an upgraded WBB roll, for +1 on the roll.

Allow Wraiths to buy either rending or power weapons (not sure which makes more sense).

More wargear for Lords, for a bit more variety (Hell, allow them to buy the Pariahs warscythe).

More vehicles. I don't use monoliths at all. Give me some more variety in vehicles. Maybe some walkers. Definitely some more lighter skimmers.

Scarabs. Not sure ehere but something needs to be done.

Necrons really need a big overhaul.

basicly give the oldest stand and shoot army CC monsters

my ansewer no

here is what i would do

limit the monolith
why because on paper a 3 mono army is good and i hate playing people who bring 3. two words phase out

walkers
like the idea maybe like eldar war walkers but with guass wepons and WBB

troops
a all over upgrade like every warrior MUST get one of 4(?) upgrades or none depending on what c'tan they follow

flayed ones as troops
no way a necron force should stand and shoot not deepstrike 6 CC squads that are going to rip the enemy to shreds up close

lord + immortals
same C'TAN upgrade as the warriors but more extreme

drop pod like device

no way drop pods are space marines and space marines alone you want drop pods collect SM because that would be like giving DE land raiders

John Vaughan
08-12-2006, 21:47
I think for something smaller than a monolith that they just need to have a new kind of gun, not a whip immitate.

VenrableOne
08-12-2006, 22:24
Who keeps sneakily deleting my posts?!:mad: Now the post that Venrable One was replying to has been deleted as well.

Hmmm.....I can still see it. Weird.

Now as to obelisk rules;

Obelisk: HS choice
armor: front 12, side 12, rear 12
BS: 4
type: tank, skimmer
crew: none
weapons: particle whip
special rules: living metal, ponderous (see monolith in necron codex), deep strike
points: ?

What do you all think?

I would also like to see what someone else mentioned. C'tan specific rules.

MrBigMr
08-12-2006, 23:39
I agree on the upgrades by C'Tan idea. I'd say that make them like Chaos Space Marines. You have your basic neutral troops with none and the list would be like the normal codex type.
Then if you choose a god to follow, the troops would have different abilities and limits. Like I'd think that Immortals could be 0-1 for others, while Nightbringer would get as many of them as he'd like. He was the first C'Tan yo be found, so wouldn't he have dibs on the first Necrons?
And doesn't the fluff state that the Void Dragons troops had somesort of lightining on them, so maybe a Lightning Field on all his Warriors or something?

Walker I don't know about. Somehow the Necron tech is more of a hover type. Only thing that walks are the basic troops. Anything larger flies. And for drop pods, why not teleport? They do it already, so why not give them some special ability to deepstrike rather than fly in a pod.
I know the point of not just letting the Marines have them, but I can't see Necrons wasting their resources on some flying caskets (pun intended), when they already have the ability to teleport their troops on location and off of it.

Fear is the mind killer
09-12-2006, 00:13
I do particularly like the idea of necron armies having different characteristics depending on which god they serve, without necessarily taking the c'tan with you. Some suggestions:

Deceiver: (expert manipulator and illusionist) Perhaps the army benefits from the scout rule due to the enemy being fooled as to their current location? Can choose to have te first or second turn.

Nightbringer: (powerful and terrifying) Flayed Ones become 0-3 Troops choices. Wraiths may also be taken as elites. Nightmare shroud no longer one per army.

Dragon: (strong links with order and the mechanicus) May take 0-2 Techpriests from i.g. codex as 1 elites choice.

Outsider: (mad yet most powerful) Tough one this. Units may choose to suffer from the chaos dread's frenzy table to represent being one with their god? This would result in a 1 in 6 chance of being forced to be stationary and getting twice as many shots and a 1 in 6 chance of compulsary charging towards your opponent and being more ferocious in close combat.

MrBigMr
09-12-2006, 00:51
Deceiver: (expert manipulator and illusionist) Perhaps the army benefits from the scout rule due to the enemy being fooled as to their current location? Can choose to have te first or second turn.
Imagine Warriors looking like flayer ones and having some IG armor and helmets on them to try and pass off as guardsmen...
"What do you think, Pvt. ... Beep?"
"Beep beep"
"Thought so"


Dragon: (strong links with order and the mechanicus) May take 0-2 Techpriests from i.g. codex as 1 elites choice.
Takes the "Dragon on Mars" theory little too far in my oppinion.
And Techpriests wouldn't do much good to the Necrons fluff nor gamewise. Just because some Admechs might worship the Void Dragon, doesn't mean the Dragon cares. It's all food to him.
Besides, the Dragon would be the weakest C'Tan of them all, as he was mauled by the Blackstone Fortress' before going in stasis, so he wouldn't have had much time to get himself back in shape. But his armies were the most powerful of them all.


Outsider: (mad yet most powerful) Tough one this. Units may choose to suffer from the chaos dread's frenzy table to represent being one with their god? This would result in a 1 in 6 chance of being forced to be stationary and getting twice as many shots and a 1 in 6 chance of compulsary charging towards your opponent and being more ferocious in close combat.
Outsider would be the most powerful and most unstabile. His armies would propably be very very basic and the force would evolve mostly around him.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
09-12-2006, 02:21
Takes the "Dragon on Mars" theory little too far in my oppinion.
there were rules for taking Techpriests in Necron armies, werent there? part of a Campaign/event, IIRC (so only official within that event). cant remember where i downloaded the rules-pack from... it had the rules for Deathwatch too.

the Techpriests could take Gauss weapons etc, as well as normal stuff.

~ Tim

Mobiboros
09-12-2006, 03:58
basicly give the oldest stand and shoot army CC monsters

I never said that. The only CC change I'd say shoudl be made is Wraiths need a lower Str, but give them rending.



limit the monolith
why because on paper a 3 mono army is good and i hate playing people who bring 3. two words phase out

I don't even get this. Because you don't like playing against an army like that it shouldn't exist? I hate playing Space Marine Armies with all the rending assault cannons, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't exist.



walkers
like the idea maybe like eldar war walkers but with guass wepons and WBB

I was thinking more like Wraithlords (Which are monstrous creatures) because the Necron don't pilot vehicles, they ARE the vehicles. So it would basically just be a bigger Necron.



troops
a all over upgrade like every warrior MUST get one of 4(?) upgrades or none depending on what c'tan they follow

This I like. One of the original rumours frmo way, way back was this is what would be done.



flayed ones as troops
no way a necron force should stand and shoot not deepstrike 6 CC squads that are going to rip the enemy to shreds up close

Why not? As someone else notes, maybe those who follow nightbringer would be allowed to do so. Flayed Ones are okay, but not great in CC. They are I 4, which means they only go simul with marines and still slower than many eldar.



no way drop pods are space marines and space marines alone you want drop pods collect SM because that would be like giving DE land raiders

Why bother with drop pods? Many of the units can either deepstrike or be teleported with the Lord as is. Or come through a deepstriking monolith. The monolith is effectively a heavily armed drop pod.

Fear is the mind killer
09-12-2006, 10:36
Imagine Warriors looking like flayer ones and having some IG armor and helmets on them to try and pass off as guardsmen...
"What do you think, Pvt. ... Beep?"
"Beep beep"
"Thought so"

Or alternatively you could allow the necron player to swap units around before the game begins? Not much of an advantage on paper but it might work really well on the tabletop.


Takes the "Dragon on Mars" theory little too far in my oppinion.
And Techpriests wouldn't do much good to the Necrons fluff nor gamewise. Just because some Admechs might worship the Void Dragon, doesn't mean the Dragon cares. It's all food to him.
Besides, the Dragon would be the weakest C'Tan of them all, as he was mauled by the Blackstone Fortress' before going in stasis, so he wouldn't have had much time to get himself back in shape. But his armies were the most powerful of them all.

Where does it say that the dragon's armies were the most powerful of all? The 'Dragon on Mars' is fact, not theory. It's stated in the Necron book indirectly. You know that the Dragon is definitely on Mars because GW have narrowed down all possibility of him being somewhere else. I remember reading that in an inquisitor campaign that some mechanicus consider necrons holy machines whereas others consider them abominations. The techpriest could be used as a devastator squad (remember that you can take 2 as the same elites choice) by taking a plasma cannon or multi-melta or whatever they're allowed, or you could make them vicious in close combat by giving them a warscythe and some servitors with power fists.


Outsider would be the most powerful and most unstabile. His armies would propably be very very basic and the force would evolve mostly around him.

I don't see why they should be basic. Perhaps the Outsider occasionally attacks his own troops and therefore the only units that survive are ones with the Necron rule and scarab swarms (you can always build more). Maybe they should be allowed a wraithlord-like construct to counter this loss of heavy support? You could have a giant necron (epic warlord titan would be ideal) which has the top half of the warlord mounted on a skimmer body, with the arms carrying a heavy gauss cannon each?

MrBigMr
09-12-2006, 12:28
Where does it say that the dragon's armies were the most powerful of all?
It (The Void Dragon) had such mastery over the material realm that its warriors were practically invincible. Just one of its servants could slaughter hundreds of Eldar before falling, only to rise once more. They could channel lightning into their foes, and it is said the battlefields of that time were thick with the charred remains of those that dared oppose them.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/necrons/eldar-mythology/3/


The 'Dragon on Mars' is fact, not theory. It's stated in the Necron book indirectly. You know that the Dragon is definitely on Mars because GW have narrowed down all possibility of him being somewhere else.
Indirectly. I remember them also mentioning that Farsight was unnaturaly old, but that idea was dropped. Visions of a Sleeping God just states that a daemon showed Abaddon something on Mars and Eldars state that the Vaul Mood will bring forth the Dragon.
There is something of Necron construction down there on Mars, but for a final resting place of the strongest C'Tan ever to have lived, it sure is a crappy and small one at that. I'd say it has something to do with the Pariah gene and monitoring how it developes.


I don't see why they should be basic. Perhaps the Outsider occasionally attacks his own troops and therefore the only units that survive are ones with the Necron rule and scarab swarms (you can always build more).
I mean that once he was shunned by the other gods, he wouldn't have access to all the new toys like Pariahs and such and would have to settle for old school War in Heaven crap.
Or maybe he would make his own twisted designs. Like cyborgs of living flesh and metal. Unholy abominations to drive enemies insane. I remember this one drawing in which a huge half machine moster had a young woman chained to its chest. The monster would be powered by the womans despair and sorrow as the monster slaughtered people. Or so I understood the description.

scarvet
09-12-2006, 14:59
Hi all, again haven't been in warseer for a while....
Again, another disappointing trouny....

Yet, talking about being creative with necrons, I can feel the intreset of 40k comes back.

I like the way that necrons are described and thmed, and the models are rather good. However, unlike other races, necrons doesn't have a clear oringinal nor a new stand alone "civilization". They were Epytion, but GW want differ from 1Ksons, so they burr it out. Imo, necron haven't have enough visual image to make them look like they have their own "civilization" and being a GW oringinal race like the current Eldar, which move far enough from "Space Elf".

To cover that, I suggest the Aztec/Inga(?), as the rather angler monolith suggest. Even though they are out of the 4 acient human civilization, they are pretty much like an acient civilization: being in New stone age, yet they are qutie advance in science. Just imagine the Dragon is more like a winged seprent.

The only worry is, we already have slanni(old one) with such background, will it burr out the idecation of Necrons?

Ofcouse not,
A) Don't forget even 2 civilization live to each other and share some common in culture, they did have a war, and they do have some identical differce.

B)GW made Slanni dead, there is more than enough room for the necron the draw concept from them.

After the "base civilization" is set, it will be much easier to make more units. Ofcoure, more vehicels should be frist added to the Necrons list, and the idea of cybory zombie will be rather nice. But I think a reorangnize of the necron list by referring to the base civilization

to be contiune......

MrBigMr
09-12-2006, 15:45
Well, I think that rather than comparing the culture to some earth culture, you should look at them as their own. And after 60 000 000 years, there's not much left of it.
We know little for sure, but we can make some assumptions.
For one, death must have been a big part of their culture. It was all around them. Much like with Egyptians and South American Indians.
Silver, Black and Green seem to be the dominating colors. Propably due to the materials they use. I think that the Necrontyr must have had much more style and color, but only the silver living metal and Black/Green structures have survived. Much like Ancien Greece and Rome which are mostly pictured as white marble in populart culture, but in reality had lots of color and variety.
Shoulder pads. All the models have those large or very large carapace on their backs. I think they're armor plates rather than extra large shoulder blades. So that would give some idea of their clothing/armor. Large shoulder pads.
Also on the subject of clother, I'm assuming that they wore cloaks to protect themselves from the sun and maybe sand blown around by winds.

As for the beings themselves, I think that adding some green stuff flesh over the Warriors, you should get a pretty accurate picture of their appearance. Long face, hunched, large torso, propably slim limbs.
As the sun of their world was unstabile and raped the world with radiation and solar flares, they propably had a thick dark skin, evolved eyes to see in the bright light and blisters and tumors from the radiation.
I always picture them to look like Odin (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/juuso007/Pics/HM2KOdin.gif) from Heavy Metal 2000.

And for the people who think that the Void Dragon is on Mars:
http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/juuso007/Pics/iwtb.jpg

malketh the witch king
09-12-2006, 17:22
i was thinking of something like necron warriors with ccw and gauss pistol? i mean for tau they made a pulse pistol so why not make a gauss pistol?

Carot
09-12-2006, 17:33
I've always liked the concept of necrons disappearing and reappearing like spectres. Here's my concept.

A slightly varried warrior (with a backpack or alternate head maybe, nothing too big) with the regular gauss flayer.

The unit can be 1-3 units of 3-5 warriors. Each unit may deploy seperately and/or deepstrike. During the game each unit acts as if they had "Veil of darkness", disappearing from one spot, to reappear in another.

The units aren't very big on their own, but can add a lot of manuvreability to the slow-and-plodding necron force. They could be considered a troop choice.

I'd say about 25pts per model should do it. Only 1 unit per force.

:chrome:

MrBigMr
09-12-2006, 17:45
i was thinking of something like necron warriors with ccw and gauss pistol? i mean for tau they made a pulse pistol so why not make a gauss pistol?
But do you see Tau wielding a pistol and ccw combo? The pistol is just for crew, like how Navy pilots have laspistols when they eject from their crafts. I think it's way better than trying to fit a pulse rifle/carbine in a battlesuit.

Norminator
09-12-2006, 17:48
NEcrons with pistols just doesn't seem right. These are ancient mechanical constructs that have ravaged the galaxy, yet they wander around with pistols? No; Necrons are the type to carry incredibly powerful, exotic weaponry; not the type carried by every sergeant in the 40k universe (exaggeration, but you get my point).

Fear is the mind killer
09-12-2006, 18:34
It (The Void Dragon) had such mastery over the material realm that its warriors were practically invincible. Just one of its servants could slaughter hundreds of Eldar before falling, only to rise once more. They could channel lightning into their foes, and it is said the battlefields of that time were thick with the charred remains of those that dared oppose them.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/necrons/eldar-mythology/3/
But wasn't this at a time when eldar were primitive, before they had plasma etc. and were only armed with things like swords and shields? Maybe they really were just regular necrons with lightning field like you said earlier. Or maybe the lightning that the text refers to was the gauss flayer projectiles?


Indirectly. I remember them also mentioning that Farsight was unnaturaly old, but that idea was dropped. Visions of a Sleeping God just states that a daemon showed Abaddon something on Mars and Eldars state that the Vaul Mood will bring forth the Dragon.
There is something of Necron construction down there on Mars, but for a final resting place of the strongest C'Tan ever to have lived, it sure is a crappy and small one at that. I'd say it has something to do with the Pariah gene and monitoring how it developes.
The pariah gene monitoring station makes sense, but there was also a reference to the mechanicus worshipping the machine god before the Emperor came to power, gaining much hidden knowledge. If this is indeed the case then the dragon's tomb can't be that far from Earth as the emperor was the one who developed the navigator gene that enabled warp travel to be used much more easily.


I mean that once he was shunned by the other gods, he wouldn't have access to all the new toys like Pariahs and such and would have to settle for old school War in Heaven crap.
Or maybe he would make his own twisted designs. Like cyborgs of living flesh and metal. Unholy abominations to drive enemies insane. I remember this one drawing in which a huge half machine moster had a young woman chained to its chest. The monster would be powered by the womans despair and sorrow as the monster slaughtered people. Or so I understood the description.
I like the twisted designs idea. Okay, brainstorming time!
So if he doesn't have pariahs and he's insane with necron-level techiology then it would make sense to provide a new elites choice that would fulfill a similar role. Perhaps he would use soulless humans and turn them into something else? They would have the pariah rule, but would probably have something extremely unnatural about them like too many or too few limbs or heads or the body of a snake or something. Perhaps allow a unit that's a bit like the tyranid warrior unit, as in allow it to have a wide choice of upgrades including altering its movement type, give it the pariah rule, allow it necron wargear instead of nid weaponry and otherwise use the pariah's profile? The Outsider could have been inspired by the tyranids into making his version of the future of the Necron race similar, such as a snake's body with 6 arms or something insane like that.


And for the people who think that the Void Dragon is on Mars:http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/juuso007/Pics/iwtb.jpg
That's a very cool picture. Thanks!:D

Tanith Ghost
09-12-2006, 19:03
Hand weapon bearing Necron reapers

Warriors who forgo the terrible gauss weapons in favor of disruption feilds and deadly scythes are called Reapers. The dread Reapers are the grim news to their foes they face death incarnate. Favored vassals of the nightbringer, they are rewarded in undeath with silver scythes bathed in sickly green electricity, to symbolize the harvest, and to rend apart the hated living in battle.

Norminator
09-12-2006, 19:44
That scythe idea is actually really good, something I never thought of. Would really fit the Necron persona of harbringers of death and destruction.

guillimansknight
09-12-2006, 20:18
I never said that. The only CC change I'd say shoudl be made is Wraiths need a lower Str, but give them rending.



I don't even get this. Because you don't like playing against an army like that it shouldn't exist? I hate playing Space Marine Armies with all the rending assault cannons, but that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't exist.


i mean to stop crons shooting themselves in the foot




I was thinking more like Wraithlords (Which are monstrous creatures) because the Necron don't pilot vehicles, they ARE the vehicles. So it would basically just be a bigger Necron.



This I like. One of the original rumours frmo way, way back was this is what would be done.



Why not? As someone else notes, maybe those who follow nightbringer would be allowed to do so. Flayed Ones are okay, but not great in CC. They are I 4, which means they only go simul with marines and still slower than many eldar.


no way nightbringer or not the necrons are stand and shoot it would be like giving tau a CC troop (not good)



Why bother with drop pods? Many of the units can either deepstrike or be teleported with the Lord as is. Or come through a deepstriking monolith. The monolith is effectively a heavily armed drop pod.

wingedserpant
09-12-2006, 21:43
Guass swords. Necron warrors with close combat weapons but get the gauss special only in combat.

harlequin21
09-12-2006, 21:47
Guass swords. Necron warrors with close combat weapons but get the gauss special only in combat.

Necrons warriors already have this option, its called "disruption Fields" they can buy them, it gives them gauss rules in c/c vs vehicles

wingedserpant
09-12-2006, 22:05
Oh really. Did not know that. I don't know much about necrons apart from WWB, gauss, resurrection orbs and how to kill them.Well that reaper idea looks cool.

MrBigMr
09-12-2006, 22:23
But wasn't this at a time when eldar were primitive, before they had plasma etc. and were only armed with things like swords and shields? Maybe they really were just regular necrons with lightning field like you said earlier. Or maybe the lightning that the text refers to was the gauss flayer projectiles?
But then why are the Dragons troops singled out? There has to be something special compared to normal Necrons.


The pariah gene monitoring station makes sense, but there was also a reference to the mechanicus worshipping the machine god before the Emperor came to power, gaining much hidden knowledge.
Humans did travel far and wide, finding lots of old stuff around the galaxy. They could have come across Necron stuff from dozens of worlds. If they can't realy enter the Necron tomb on Mars (didn't it have a self defence systems intact), then how did they enter it and find all the knowledge?


I like the twisted designs idea. Okay, brainstorming time!
So if he doesn't have pariahs and he's insane with necron-level techiology then it would make sense to provide a new elites choice that would fulfill a similar role. Perhaps he would use soulless humans and turn them into something else? They would have the pariah rule, but would probably have something extremely unnatural about them like too many or too few limbs or heads or the body of a snake or something. Perhaps allow a unit that's a bit like the tyranid warrior unit, as in allow it to have a wide choice of upgrades including altering its movement type, give it the pariah rule, allow it necron wargear instead of nid weaponry and otherwise use the pariah's profile? The Outsider could have been inspired by the tyranids into making his version of the future of the Necron race similar, such as a snake's body with 6 arms or something insane like that.
Something like that.
I always wanted to make units called Infiltrators. Basicly they'd be like Flayed Ones, but with intact skin and other gear. They'd have basic Necron stats but with Infiltration and Preferred Enemy against the enemy you're fighting against. As for weapons, they'd have a list of what guns with each enemy, like bolters against Marines, lasguns against Guard, shuriken catapults against Eldar and so on. Also you wouldn't be able to use scanners against them.
You could use basic models of the race you were fighting as models. HC modellers would make terminator style conversions with their bodies mauled and metal sticking from beneath it.
But the Infiltrators sound more like Deceiver units than the Outsiders. I like the Tyranid thingy. He could have stolen Nid genes for his experiments and make some Hive Mind Alternative(tm) powered monstrosity special unit.


That's a very cool picture. Thanks!:D
Made it some time ago for a debate on the same subject on GW forum.

Mobiboros
09-12-2006, 23:43
i mean to stop crons shooting themselves in the foot

That's the players choice to choose an army. Plus there are no other vehicle options. Stocking up on Heavy destroyers doesn't replace the need for vehicle support.



it would be like giving tau a CC troop (not good)

You mean, like the Kroot?

Saying the Necron must be stand and shoot makes no sense at all since:
a) Flayed-Ones can't shoot.
b) It's an upgrade for tomb spiders to shoot, normally they can't.
c) Lords can upgrade to a non-shooty weapon
d) Pariahs have specialized CC weapons
e) Wraiths can't shoot.
f) Scarabs can't shoot

A good number of their units either are specifically CC troops or they have CC options. So clearly they are not just a stand and shoot army.

Acidreign
11-12-2006, 21:34
Going in contrast to most everyone else, I think the Necrons for the most part are just right. Only a few "tweaks" on the Christmas list. This is mainly a composite of ideas from others here and there (and myself).

HQ: pretty much the same

Wargear: Add something that removes "fearless" from fearless units!

Elites:
- Pariahs: Make "feel no pain" Universal rule. The idea of making them a retinue is great. Drop price points. Finally something to do with these currently very limited units.
- Immortals: Keep same but add "slow and steady" universal rule
- Flayed Ones: Furious charge universal rule and maybe redering claw and Infiltrate even if game doesn't allow

Troops: Keep 'em the same, add "Slow & Steady" universal rule

Fast Attack:
- Wraiths: Rendering Claw, Fleet of Foot, unit up to 5
- scarabs: no change
- Destroyers: no change

Heavy
- Heavy Ds: Cost less and larger unit size
- Tomb Spyder: Created scarab bases would have T6, W1, A2 (thx SangV)

Other than that, they are just fine. No more power ups needed and no fluff to mess up the room. Want fluff, find a fluffy army.. keep Necs metal.

~ar

Fear is the mind killer
11-12-2006, 21:40
Yeah that's a good idea. Slow and purposeful should be quite common for necron footsloggers as it suits them so well. This would encourage more teleporting I think.

Pariahs should move normally though, as they are supposed to be better than necrons as they represent the next stage for the necron race according to the codex, although they seem pretty weak compared to other necrons.

Perhaps there should be some minor form of customisation, as I've heard a lot of necron players grumble about the units not having any options.

Norminator
11-12-2006, 21:55
I just had an idea for a vehicle (going a bit OT from the original thread idea, but I wanted to post it nonetheless).

Similar to the deepstriking vehicle concept, except that this vehicle only has a weak defensive weapon (t/l gauss blaster?). The main purpose is something that Necrons, without a proper transport vehicle, and missing. Essentially any Necron unit with the Necron special rule (and maybe only troops) can teleport to the vehicle, immediatly being placed in BtB contact with it and operating as if it's disembarked. This is similar to the Obelisks in Dark Crusade, but is also something I've noticed is sorely missing from Necron armies.

Thoughts?

John Vaughan
11-12-2006, 22:23
That is an interesting idea...if they could embark actually into it, that would be awesome, especially if there were places to fire from!

Fear is the mind killer
11-12-2006, 23:16
How about the ability to teleport much like monliths, except that it only has enough power to teleport one unit. This unit can be in reserves when teleported, and allows for a sort of drop pod army.

Mr_Smiley
12-12-2006, 02:52
Necrons, for an army that hates the Warp have no warp stopping objects, so I think the standard troops should be able to take something similar to the Collar of Khorne rules.

chickenuggets
12-12-2006, 05:29
either both scrabs nad flayed ones moved to troops, or some quick assault/cc ret for the lord thats a "necron"/ just more selection in general

edit: and i would like to see a slight point increase of heavy destroyers but give them two woulds, cause they die just same as normal ones. they need to be better

alpha1620
11-01-2007, 11:56
hmm troop choice huh? well most of necrons army seems to be based either of terminator or another arnie flick called centurion, as such im going to base these ideas off a couple of other movies...

have any of you folks seen a movie called "screamers" i kind of like the idea of small units about the size of scarabs tearing toward the enemy just under the soil that are fleet and use spinning saw blades and the ability to upgrade with disruption fields and a sonic scream requiring troops to make leadership tests, screamers would remain underground untill reaching within 6" of their target where they would leap out at the target with the target required to make a leadership roll (if successful then attacks screamer mid air and screamer has no armour save) think of these kind of like self directing chainswords. disruption fields would allow screamers to attack armoured vehicles as well (although in this case i would give the screamer the option of burrowing through the base of the vehicle), perhaps screamers can only see units touching the ground, ie totally innefective against skimmers and floaties/flyers unless touching the ground, screamers could directly attack transports to reach the troops inside forcing immediate disembark from what would otherwise become a mobile tomb. i think the idea would line up with the whole necron scare the living kaka out of the enemy before tearing his skin off thing. necrons are ultra heavy on the guns, how bout a little slap n tickle on their part heh he he.

full cred to whoever said a smaller light vehicle as well, although im thinking more along the lines of an addition to the basic destroyer platform, kind of like war gear for a necron lord but only available to destroyer platform units, ie lord destroyers, destroyers heavy destroyers. how about feeder tenticles (think "spawns" chains) range 2" that have the ability to drain a wound on a 6 and add it to their own wounds up to but not exceeding their full wounds, instead of phylactry (or however you say it) make it slightly more expensive to buy but it acts both as a weapon and a very useful reanimation tool.

full cred also to whoever said more addons, wargears and abilities that can be purchased across the board with necrons, it would add divesity not only to gameplay but also painting and remodeling as well.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
11-01-2007, 12:12
I'd like to see Necron warriors armed with lightning guns.

Captain Micha
11-01-2007, 12:47
I want cultists.

I want a walker.

and I want functioning pariah

oh and don't forget I want wraiths that have some more options. *though I am not sure they need em with as much luck as I have with them*

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
11-01-2007, 22:36
I agree with cultists and functioning Pariahs, but I am personally against any kind of "walker" type machine in their army as I dont think it fits well with their image. I'd rather see some kind of super-wraith instead.

studderigdave
11-01-2007, 22:46
flayed ones count as troop choices at one of my local stores. its an understood house rule in all non-tourney games. they are a "1 per" choice, meaning you need to field a squad of warriors to field a squad of flayed ones. so 3 max, but it doesnt eat up elite slots. i like the rule, and i dont even play tin'eadz.

TheEndIsHere
11-01-2007, 23:24
One thing most of you guys should go play chaos:
Necron cultist: EWWWW
Necron walker: EWWWW
Necron sergents: EWWW
Necron Pistols: EWWWW

Those aren't necron things if we ever get those I quit I swear I will. The most stupid thing ever

/rant

What we need is a tomb scorpion as an upgrade to a TS with wounds no AV also an obelisk could be something like a HS choice 100-125 points 0-3 or 5 per HS choices.:
AV:14 all around
living metal
deepstrike
gauss flux arc
portal
EMObile (lol immobile)
Either use the portal or the gauss flux arc, a necon unit can go nia portal to emerge of any other portal on the field counting as moving. Also Flayed ones can be used as troops but then the warriros count as elites and so do wraiths or sumthing plus maybe a special upgrade on warriors for every C'Tan maknig them maybe elites...

For our enemies

TheEndIsHere

Duhgame
12-01-2007, 02:45
Move flayed ones to troops, then add cultists as cheap troop choices.

Also Cyborgs would be awesome, they could have: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 I5 A2 LD 9 Sv. 4+ & feel no pain. They would be an Elite or troops (depending on how they are done/adjusted choice with point cost to be determined. They would be armed with an equivalent to a hellgun and would count as having a heavy weapon.

Add a walker (robot mind instead of pilot) that would be cutomizable and have AV 14 (or 13 to make cheaper in points) all around with the living metal rule. If it could hover great, but a walker w/ out legs could make it a hover gunship which would be cool, then it could be a heavy support choice. If a pilot is a must have make servitor or cultists control it.

Thats just my 2 cents.

Overlord Krycis
12-01-2007, 03:12
...- Immortals: Keep same but add "slow and steady" universal rule...

~ar

Um...what would be the point in that? They carry Assault weapons...


Personally...all I'd like to see as a new troops choice is the Flayed Ones being moved there...

And Pariahs to get the ability to teleport with the Lord/Monolith, 2 attacks and a slight points reduction.

Thanatos_elNyx
12-01-2007, 10:15
I would change the Living Metal rule to be simply:
5+ Save vs Penetrating Hits
3+ Save vs Glancing
Immune to Melta.(Not Lance as it gives Eldar little chance to hurt it)

They also need a Light vehicle. There was a cool Death Barge concept art when the Necrons first came out. It looked like a cross between a Viking Ship and Charons boat.

Definately move Flayed Ones to Core but make Warriors 2+(i.e. They take the mandatory Troop slots).

FOs could be replaced in the Elite section by some sort of floaty Wraithlord.

Also I think that the idea for an ability to remove Fearless would be cool. it could be called 'Ancient Evil', or 'Evil From Before Time' or something. Perhaps it would act as a Psychic Hood as well, though just once a turn(I think the original Psyhic Hood should be limited as well).

Fear is the mind killer
12-01-2007, 10:25
I reckon that all 'Necron' units on foot would benefit from slow and purposeful, with the exception of flayed ones and possibly immortals too.

Nekau
12-01-2007, 10:35
I reckon that all 'Necron' units on foot would benefit from slow and purposeful, with the exception of flayed ones and possibly immortals too.

Agreed, it would really reflect the idea I have of Necrons.

Necrons is in dire need of a new Troop choice. As it is now, you rather pick from outside the Troop selection to make them work properly. A new CC-unit would be fine, then you could make an all close combat army.

elmak the fallen angel
12-01-2007, 11:34
a troop choice.....uurm well.....sum kinda clos combat squad with pistols and some kinda sword or axe or something even tho that wouldnt seem like necrons........

Scythe
12-01-2007, 14:04
What we need is a tomb scorpion as an upgrade to a TS with wounds no AV also an obelisk could be something like a HS choice 100-125 points 0-3 or 5 per HS choices.:
AV:14 all around
living metal
deepstrike
gauss flux arc
portal
Either use the portal or the gauss flux arc, a necon unit can go nia portal to emerge of any other portal on the field counting as moving. Also Flayed ones can be used as troops but then the warriros count as elites and so do wraiths or sumthing plus maybe a special upgrade on warriors for every C'Tan maknig them maybe elites...

For our enemies

TheEndIsHere

So you basically want a Monolith without the ordnance template attack, but for half the points, and 0-3 per slot?

As if people aren't complaining enough about the current Monolith as it is...

Lavadude360
12-01-2007, 15:22
a cron warrior with a gun

edit: a big gun with " big moma " on the side :D

Locke
12-01-2007, 17:12
actually as an idea, letting necron players have a squad of 0-1 buildable warriors would be cool similar to what tyranids can do.

Buddha777
12-01-2007, 17:21
I really like alot of the ideas presented so I won't just recap what has been said. For a new unit I would like to see Techpreists as an option. While cultists are more of a chaos thing having some Skitarii would not only add some badly needed flavor to the army but make alot of sense seeing as how many of them view the C'tan as the true incarnation of their machine god. Plus I think many of us have wanted to see a mechanicus army for years.

Fear is the mind killer
12-01-2007, 17:37
Dude's got a point. You could at least ditch the gauss flux arc, as people cut harmless transports more slack.

Shadowfax
12-01-2007, 18:01
I was thinking of another unit possibility, similar to drop pods, only instead of acting as transports these immobile crystals could have some negative effect on organic life within 12", such as radioactive damage.


How about the ability to teleport much like monliths, except that it only has enough power to teleport one unit. This unit can be in reserves when teleported, and allows for a sort of drop pod army.
A combination of these two ideas could be cool.

"Drop-portals", if you will.

Necron Sarcophagus
100 points
AV 13/13/13
May deepstrike regardless of mission
Immobile
Living Metal
Portal
Abominable Aura: non-Necron units must pass a Ld test if they wish to move/assault within 6" of the portal.