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inq.serge
08-12-2006, 16:51
Is the new steamy immune to poison? :evilgrin:

Yade
08-12-2006, 17:32
Yes, The rules say that otherwise where stated it is treated exactly like a war machine.

TheWarSmith
08-12-2006, 17:45
How about immunity to Killing Blow? OMG that'd be the most rediculous thing ever to KB a steam tank.

Griefbringer
08-12-2006, 18:04
How about immunity to Killing Blow? OMG that'd be the most rediculous thing ever to KB a steam tank.

Bretonnian Virtue of Heroism anyone? You can always explain that it represents him lobbing the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch through a vision slit! All shall fear Bertrand le Steam-tank-slayer!

Edit: no idea if it is immune to KB, but considering that we are talking about GW design studio, they probably forgot to even consider the possibility.

TheWarSmith
08-12-2006, 18:07
Any Bretonnian lord that slays a steam tank HAS to have some kind of mark on him for his accomplishment.

For all we know there is a rule saying no killing blow to it. Hell, Thorgrim grudgebearer is a large target, but he specifically has an item which gives him KB immunity(but that might also give him poison immunity?)

Yade
08-12-2006, 20:36
It is a large target with wounds. If you can killing blow a dragon with that virtue then there is no reason you can't killing blow the steam tank. I saw a debate as to whether or not the new KB rules negated the Bretonian virtue and I do not believe that it does due to the wording of the virtue.

The new rules regulate killing blow based upon US and the Virtue allows you to KB large targets. We can assume that most large targets have a high enough US to avoid this but the intention of the virtue is to over look that very fact.

JonnyTHM
08-12-2006, 20:56
There is nothing in the new steam tank rules that would make it immune to the bret large target killing blow.

Good find!

eldrak
08-12-2006, 20:56
No, not the intention of the virtue, the rules of the virtue does.

Flame
08-12-2006, 23:45
How do you know what the 'intention' of the rule was?

Xavier
09-12-2006, 00:09
That's actually rather funny, I now have visions of a knight charging a steam tank and taking out an essential rivet then watching the tank fall apart while re reading the blue prints from the back of his horse.

Stouty
09-12-2006, 00:10
The intention was to let you kill dragons, clearly.

However is the STank not a warmachine? I didn't think you could KB a warmachine.

NakedFisherman
09-12-2006, 00:18
Yep, it's entirely possible to Killing Blow a Steam Tank with the Bretonnian Virtue of Heroism (that's the one, right?).

He sticks his lance through a vision slit and impales the Engineer. :D

druchii
09-12-2006, 00:44
The intention was to let you kill dragons, clearly.

However is the STank not a warmachine? I didn't think you could KB a warmachine.


The intention was to let you kill LARGE TARGETS. Clearly.

Who cares about "intention"? We can sit and debate about intention forever. The rules are what counts.

From my limited readings of the new book, there is nothing changing the Stank's succeptability to the Virtue of Herism, good thing too.

d

JonnyTHM
09-12-2006, 01:29
However is the STank not a warmachine? I didn't think you could KB a warmachine.

There are no restrictions in the rules for killingblow about warmachines.

Further, a quick read of the warmachines section has turned up no rules excluding it.

Therefore:
lance that machine!

(I personally think that without a specific rule in the steam tank, it would be terrible to make it so this virtue didn't work... any other immunity would've passed on to the hellcannon, and I personally think that it needs a lance just as much)

Griefbringer
09-12-2006, 07:10
The only thing that could prevent you from delivering a (ordinary) killing blow to a war machine would the unit strenght of that particular war machine.

And I somehow doubt if the steam tank would really count as a war machine in the first place.

JonnyTHM
09-12-2006, 12:13
Unless it's otherwise noted in its rules, the steamtank counts as a warmachine.

To make that less nonsensical...
in the steamtank rules, it says "Except where noted otherwise, a Steam Tank counts as a warmachine in all respects"

Kotobuki
09-12-2006, 14:59
You know, I'd never thought about dealing with a Stank that way... Very Tricksy... I think if I ever run into an opponent that uses one regularly, I may have to pull that on him. DAHAHAH!

inq.serge
09-12-2006, 15:16
What about Tullgaris?

Stouty
09-12-2006, 15:40
There are no restrictions in the rules for killingblow about warmachines.

:eek:

Well that's just a little bit odd. I would have imagined there would have been some restriction; but there is not so I bid the fair knights of the lady lance forth!

(I want to see this happen at least once)

druchii
11-12-2006, 03:13
:eek:

Well that's just a little bit odd. I would have imagined there would have been some restriction; but there is not so I bid the fair knights of the lady lance forth!

(I want to see this happen at least once)

I hope it does. My local empire player is bringing TWO(!) steam tanks to our next game.

And he doesn't know about my knightly surprise on a pegasus. :D

I hope so see it happen. Twice. In the same game.

d

TheWarSmith
11-12-2006, 19:50
Of course there's not a rule to state the relation between killing blow and warmachines, because the steam tank is the only warmachine that can be KBed(except by throt and that executioner guy maybe?).

The rule that says they can't be KBed is the "man sized" limitation(in 6th) and the US1-2 limitation(in 7th).

All I have to say is.....

LANCE THAT STANK!!!

FlameKnight
12-12-2006, 06:59
:( Thread makes baby jesus cry.

tank is auto-hit in combat too. so a bret lord has a 2/3 chance of taking out the tank. That's bs lol.

Oh well. I still plan on getting 10D3 s6 hits with a 15" charge with my two tanks :)

Falkman
12-12-2006, 11:30
If you're planning on taking two steam tanks you deserve to have them killing blowed ;)

JonnyTHM
12-12-2006, 14:43
Of course there's not a rule to state the relation between killing blow and warmachines, because the steam tank is the only warmachine that can be KBed(except by throt and that executioner guy maybe?).


Very close, but actually, the 'dragon on wheels' of a hellcannon is also a large target and can be KBed.

Then again KBing a hellcannon seems to make a heck of a lot of sense to me.

TheWarSmith
12-12-2006, 15:38
You'd almost NEVER get all those impact hits.

You'd have to roll 5d6 and get 10 or less, so good luck. That's assuming that your stank hasn't taken ANY wounds either.

The stank got NERFED to hell.

Also, the hellcannon is a lot tougher to KB since you'd have to roll to hit it, and it'd get a ward save in some cases.

Just thought of it. Think of a giant thumping a STANK w/ a club. 2d6 wounds baby.

Griefbringer
12-12-2006, 16:05
because the steam tank is the only warmachine that can be KBed(except by throt and that executioner guy maybe?).


Are you sure? I don't have the 7th edition rulebook here, so cannot check what US the war-machines have.

JonnyTHM
12-12-2006, 16:10
Roll 5d6 and get 10 or less?

That's not how steampoints are generated in the new rules.

You chose between 0 and 5, roll a d6 and add that to how many you chose, if it's greater than the number of wounds left, you lose one wound and generate no steam points.

Sadly enough, it wouldn't be that hard for him to pull off what he's talking about.

TheWarSmith
12-12-2006, 16:23
Hmmm, I must have misread the rules for SP generation then. It did seam a bit weak that it'd be almost impossible to ever generate 5 SP. Just peg it a few wounds and it won't be doin' so hot on the SP generation.

Falkman
12-12-2006, 18:38
Are you sure? I don't have the 7th edition rulebook here, so cannot check what US the war-machines have.
Sorry, but I just have to ask.
This keeps cropping up, but what does US has to do with being a Large target?
Large target is a specific rule, any creatures/models that has it has it written in their rules, so why should it's US matter?

JonnyTHM
12-12-2006, 21:59
The reason for questioning the US of war machines was to know if there were any with small enough US that they could be KBed. Not for the large target ones.

Griefbringer
13-12-2006, 08:07
That is what I meant - back in the 6th edition a model had to be "man-sized" to be regularly KB'ed, but now it it is enough to have sufficiently low US.

Thus, theoretically a lucky shot from scrap-launcher or waywatcher might be able to KB some war machine that has sufficiently low US.

Falkman
13-12-2006, 11:36
Ah, I see, must've missed that change.
So US1 or 2 it is to be able to be KBed now, then?

Griefbringer
13-12-2006, 16:16
So US1 or 2 it is to be able to be KBed now, then?

Actually, the rulebook says that "unit strenght of 2 or less" so also a model with US of 0 could be affected by KB. However, the US of a war machine is somewhat poorly defined in the 7th edition rulebook.

Another interesting case is when the attack with the KB would not normally be able to wound the target (eg. waywatcher shot with S3 versus cannon with T7) - going literally by the rules, it could be argued that the KB would still work on a roll of 6 to wound, though this sounds somewhat odd.

Falkman
13-12-2006, 16:55
Another interesting case is when the attack with the KB would not normally be able to wound the target (eg. waywatcher shot with S3 versus cannon with T7) - going literally by the rules, it could be argued that the KB would still work on a roll of 6 to wound, though this sounds somewhat odd.
I don't think it's that odd at all.

Imagine, if you will, Chaos lord Maardrek, chosen of the four winds and general badass guy.
His skin is tough like steel, hard as rock and coloured like the rainbow, thus making it impregnable to arrows.
Now, imagine Liarath, a wood elf waywatcher, trained for two hundred years in the art of the bow.
He knows that a shot to the chest of the monstrous Chaos heathen will not harm him, so he aims for the eye, where his arrow will go straight through the brain of the chosen one, making a mess of the inside of his head and bringing about an abrupt end to the life of Maardrek, chosen of the four winds and general badass guy.

This to me represents why you can still achieve a killing blow though you normally wouldn't be able to wound something.

eldrak
13-12-2006, 18:25
But you can't get poisoned hits when you need 7+ to hit...

TheWarSmith
13-12-2006, 18:46
we're talking about killing blow, not poison.

Kotobuki
13-12-2006, 20:09
Don't units that do not otherwise have a defined US (i.e. 20mm infantry base is US1) have a US equal to thier number of starting wounds?

Griefbringer
14-12-2006, 08:24
Don't units that do not otherwise have a defined US (i.e. 20mm infantry base is US1) have a US equal to thier number of starting wounds?

To my knowledge that applies only to monsters.

Falkman
14-12-2006, 09:36
To my knowledge that applies only to monsters.
But isn't that (not having a pre-determined US) what makes you a monster in the first place?
Seeing as there are no special rule named Monster that gets slapped on Monsters, sometimes it can be hard knowing what is a monster and what is not.

Sherlocko
14-12-2006, 10:10
Erhm, I would say a monster is anything wich can´t be placed in the other categories. And some monsters have pre-determined US, some the same as the amounts of wounds.

Griefbringer
14-12-2006, 10:13
In any case, war machines have their own entry in the US table on page 71.

Falkman
14-12-2006, 10:15
Erhm, I would say a monster is anything wich canīt be placed in the other categories. And some monsters have pre-determined US, some the same as the amounts of wounds.
According to the US chart in the rulebook, a Monster has a US equal to it's starting wounds, so according to that, no a Monster can not have a fixed US.

Griefbringer
14-12-2006, 10:41
According to the US chart in the rulebook, a Monster has a US equal to it's starting wounds, so according to that, no a Monster can not have a fixed US.

"Some unique creatures may be an exception to the chart, but when this is the case, it will be clearly specified in that unit's special rules."

From the same page.

Falkman
14-12-2006, 10:44
Yeah, but then arises a new problem, what exactly do they mean by these "unique creatures"?
Seeing as there is no rule that clearly shows us who is a monster, how should we know from what category these unique creatures are deviating?
In my eyes, it' stuff like the STank and Hellcannon.
The big mistake, I think, and I have said so before, is that they don't clearly specify what counts as what.
A chart at the end of the book, describing all units in the game and under what category they are, would have been great.
As it is now, the rules are very hazy and can make for some unneccesary(sp?) arguments.

Griefbringer
14-12-2006, 11:00
A chart at the end of the book, describing all units in the game and under what category they are, would have been great.


I have to agree here - and the same also applies to the base sizes, back in the 3rd edition those were clearly specified, now they are a mystery. It would not take much space to specify in every army book what goes on a base of what size.

Anodai
17-12-2006, 17:55
If the steam tank is auto hit, doesnt that mean the TK bone giant hits it infinite times?

Flame
17-12-2006, 18:06
No, because it has to be a wounding hit, so he will fail eventually.