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DeathlessDraich
10-12-2006, 13:20
pg 77 "If a character is riding in a chariot, the creatures pulling... will fight in the challenge but the other members of the chariots crew cannot attack at all until the challenge is over"

Does this mean that the chariot's crew does not participate in combat and cannot be attacked?

Thanks in advance

Festus
10-12-2006, 13:26
Hi

Yes, that's what it means: A model participating in a challenge may only attack and be attacked by its oponent in the challenge. As chariots make special provision for the crew not being able to attack this does not negate the other rule: The enemy's troops may still not attack a model in a challenge. (cf. BRB, p.77)

Festus
edit: Greenskin, you are of course completely right (and I got it wrong): The animals may fight. I edited accordingly.

greenskin
10-12-2006, 16:55
Festus, I think you probably just mistyped but the animals pulling the chariot can attack the opponent's model in the challenge.

Regarding the question, I agree with Festus that the crew could not be attacked by any of the opponent's models not in the challege. But I don't think that is precisely what is being asked.

I have no idea if the opponent's character in the challange can attack your crew, or the mounts for that matter. It is supposed to represent one-on-one combat after all. I think I would say that the opposing characters must direct all of their attacks to the other character and not mounts or crew. Two characters in chariots involved in a challange would be interesting...

Festus
10-12-2006, 18:33
Hi

The challenger may strike either at the chariot or the character, just like normal in a challenge. You cannot strike at the crew only, as those do not have a separate profile. You may, however, split your attacks against chariot or character, just like in a challenge against a character riding a monster.

cf. BRB., p.64, last-but-one paragraph.

Festus

DeathlessDraich
10-12-2006, 20:40
Sorry, not quite what I was asking, I think.

The crew cannot participate in the challenge and according to pg 77 cannot participate in any combat.

Can RnF models (opposing the chariot) who are not fighting in the challenge attack the crew? Seems a little unfair since the crew cannot attack back.*

I would agree with you Festus if the rules include the phrase "The chariot model is in the challenge".

However the absence of that phrase in pg 77 creates ambiguity especially since some of the components of the chariot model can fight but some cannot. I'm not sure that the rules can answer the question: Is the whole chariot model in the challenge or only parts of it?

*Because of this I think it is best to assume that they cannot.

I won't delve into the further complexities of:
"the character who accepted the challenge (chariot) is moved in the ranks so that the 2 protagonists are opposite each other",

in a multi-unit combat situation.:eek: I'll leave you to solve that one. :p

Festus
10-12-2006, 21:39
Hi

Can RnF models (opposing the chariot) who are not fighting in the challenge attack the crew?
Nobody can attack a chariot crew, as it does not have a separate profile :eyebrows:. The Chariot itself fights in the challenge, with the stipulation that the crew may not attack. Where is the problem?

And challenges are fought between models, not characters. A character on a Monster or a champion are possibilities. (cf p. 77).

Have a look at p.77 left column, at the very bootom: No other model may attack the characters or their mounts in a challenge.
I already referred you there...

Festus

warlord hack'a
12-12-2006, 11:36
what happens to the chariot impact hits actually? I would say they hit the unit as normal as the challenge is declared once you are in close combat and impact hits happen Before close combat/blows are struck. But I don't remeber the rules regarding this..

Avian
12-12-2006, 12:52
Impact hits are resolved before challenges are issued, so it's not a problem.

warlord hack'a
12-12-2006, 15:09
thanks avian for confirming that my memory is not as buggy as it might seem at times.. Still nice though: put a character in chariot, charge a normal unit, challenge the unit boss, if he declines that saves one attack, if he accepts that saves loads of trooper attacks whilst your impact hits still count toward combat resolution..

DeathlessDraich
12-12-2006, 17:30
Hi
And challenges are fought between models, not characters. A character on a Monster or a champion are possibilities. (cf p. 77).

I already referred you there...

Festus

Patience, old boy. :p
Yes, there is sufficient evidence e.g. characters mounted on monsters etc to show that challenges are fought between models and not characters. Problem disappears!

greenskin
12-12-2006, 18:41
Festus is quite right in all of this. I'm sorry to have muddled the issue; not quite sure what I was thinking.

TheWarSmith
12-12-2006, 19:09
I know you're technically not "attacking the crew", but since you compare your WS to the crew's WS when attacking the chariot, wouldn't the chariot be out of the question since the crew are totally disengaged?

DeathlessDraich
12-12-2006, 21:15
i.e. in the challenge attacks can only be directed at the character and not the chariot.
Good point WarSmith. :D Now why didn't I think of that?

NakedFisherman
12-12-2006, 22:39
I know you're technically not "attacking the crew", but since you compare your WS to the crew's WS when attacking the chariot, wouldn't the chariot be out of the question since the crew are totally disengaged?

No.

Besides, when attacking a chariot, the highest WS of the crew, riders, and steeds is used.