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Dwarf Longbeard
10-12-2006, 12:33
Hi I don't know if anyone else has posted anything like this but I thought I'd put it up anyway.

I was on the phone ordering the Empire army book and the guy mentioned that even though theres no army list entry in either the Orc & Goblin book and the Empire book they are still a legal choice and were left out of the books to make them more "tournament friendly"
Something else which was mentioned is that apparently theres plans underway for a new Mercenaries book which is basically a re-woring of the DOW book.

I realise that I was only talking to someone from the Mail Order department so everything has to be taken with a pinch (or bag) of salt, but I thought I share it and see if anyone has heard anything similar?

Mephistofeles
10-12-2006, 12:38
Well, they have said that they are going to make it, but it will probably take a few years before they get around to it.

Was that all you could get out of him, or did you manage to get him to say anything more?

Dwarf Longbeard
10-12-2006, 13:43
The only other thing he mentioned about that was the possibility of having plastic pikemen and other DOW units

Fideru
10-12-2006, 14:06
The only other thing he mentioned about that was the possibility of having plastic pikemen and other DOW units

<3 I want.

Zodiac
10-12-2006, 14:35
The only other thing he mentioned about that was the possibility of having plastic pikemen and other DOW units

It hurts me you know, the voice in my head..

BUY IT!!!

Reabe
10-12-2006, 17:10
Other sources say either two things:

1. No, Dogs of War are never going to get an army book. This is according to the guy who heads Lord of the Rings now.
Or
2. Dogs of War will get an army book within the next five years. I think this has been said by Gav Thorpe and one other higher-up guy.

Jonahmaul
10-12-2006, 18:59
I expect DOW will get another army book eventually, if only so GW can make some more money but i certainly wouldn't expect it in a hurry, possibly not even for the new version of Warhammer if they're talking about a 5 year timescale for it to be released.

DjtHeutii
10-12-2006, 19:52
The impression I got about the DOW is that it will be more along the lines of a "supplement" like Lustria was and may possibly also include rules for how to do "allies" like Kislev et al.

Gav did say that he wanted to see rules that make mercenaries more like mercenaries, with their own command structure and possibly detriments of some kind that will distinguish them from just being another unit in your army.

Nothing firm yet concerning this sort of thing or how it will actually be put into place.

Griefbringer
10-12-2006, 19:52
1. This is according to the guy who heads Lord of the Rings now.
2. I think this has been said by Gav Thorpe and one other higher-up guy.

I think I would take Gav's word over LotR guys word when it comes to WHFB releases. But I am not holding my breath for an early release date either.

Tastyfish
10-12-2006, 22:14
Other sources say either two things:

1. No, Dogs of War are never going to get an army book. This is according to the guy who heads Lord of the Rings now.
Or
2. Dogs of War will get an army book within the next five years. I think this has been said by Gav Thorpe and one other higher-up guy.

I always thought it was

1. There will be no update of the DoW army book from 5th ed or the Ravening hordes list

2. There may be a Tilean supplement in the same style as the Kislevite one.

Harry
10-12-2006, 22:41
Dogs of War was high on the list of priorities for 7th. I think it still is!
Whilst they may still have been unsure of the way forward (becasue of the conflict between the Tilian army theme and the whole mercenaries/Regiments of Renown thing) back in the summer I think they were getting into this even then.
I think they will have found a way forward by now.
I don't think we will have to wait anything like 5 years before they present something for our approval.
I initially assumed they would redo all the army books before looking at this. (OR any new armies) I was wrong. On both counts. Keep your arms in the ride at all times. Hold Tight.

Reabe
10-12-2006, 22:54
Dogs of War was high on the list of priorities for 7th. I think it still is!

Well, you're normally right about this sort of thing, but, to be honest, I'm about to give up Warhammer altogether because of the whole "Ok, DOW is going to get a book- oh, wait, no it's not- wait, yes it is-" from Gav and his lot. We were told that our PDF Army list would get updated shortly after 7th edition was released, but that turned out to be false hope.

At least the Accountants at GW, who'd sell their own Grandmothers no doubt, can be happy in the thought that they've got an Ogre Kingdoms player to replace me.

Sorry, a little bit of a rant there.

Harry
10-12-2006, 23:14
I hear what your saying and I think that 'Gav and his lot' are not unaware that the current situation is far from ideal. They have expressed the problem with the online updates is that everyone is on a different page. Some gamers have the most recent update, others don't. Arguments over legality. Blah, blah. I think they just would like to give you something a bit better than that. Wouldn't you like something a little better than that? Would you really be happy with another patch on a list with so many patches and so many holes it barely holds together.
Wouldn't you like a really well thought out and elegant solution to all your mercenary needs? Would that be worth the wait? ('Gav and your lot' after that build up it better be good!):D

Move Fast Hit Low
11-12-2006, 02:26
mmm plastic pikeman

txamil
11-12-2006, 05:34
Smash DOW and Chaos Dwarfs into one book. Both army's players are so desperate it would be a good deal.

And then just add one plastic set for each and one new model(s) for some new troop.

We re so easy to please. We'll gladly take some scraps.

silashand
11-12-2006, 06:15
They have expressed the problem with the online updates is that everyone is on a different page. Some gamers have the most recent update, others don't. Arguments over legality. Blah, blah. I think they just would like to give you something a bit better than that. Wouldn't you like something a little better than that? Would you really be happy with another patch on a list with so many patches and so many holes it barely holds together.

I work in a major web-based IT company and that's a load of hogwash. We do weekly roll-outs of patches and it works brilliantly. With proper versioning as well as providing consolidated errata/Q&As in one document that's updated regularly, everyone would have access to the *single* most recent errata. All you'd need is the book and the most recent errata doc. IMO a book with updates that actually *fix* the problems in it is far preferable to having to wait 6+ years for the next army book revision which will do nothing but introduce new problems on top of the old ones.

Cheers, Gary
- despises the anti-internet argument because it's nothing more than an excuse to justify not doing it because they don't *want* to do it that way.

Chiron
11-12-2006, 06:43
Cheers, Gary
- despises the anti-internet argument because it's nothing more than an excuse to justify not doing it because they don't *want* to do it that way.

I agree with that. Everyone has access to the internet in some capacity these days, even if they cant print things off they can look at the list and if they have to send it to someone who can print they can

Theres no reason at all why a decent amount of rules/FAQs shouldnt be online

Harry
11-12-2006, 07:35
Everyone has access to the internet?
Thats you position is it?
Interesting world view?
One of my Warseer friends is from Croatia.
In his country of the 20 million people who live there only 1 million have internet access.

Mr. IT company would you like to guess at the bandwidth and internet speed for those that do have internet access?
I imagine a tad slower than you enjoy for those big downloads.

Closer to home ....
In Italy only 24 million out of 62 million.
In France only 28 million out of 77million
I could go on and try and list all the Nations that are represented on Warseer but I think you get my point.

Even if you only consider the English speaking world. ...287 million out of 500 million

Globally? 700 million out of 6,000 Million.

Everyone has not got access to the internet. Not even every wargamer has internet access Even those that do have not always got the speed that makes regular downloads a possibility.

Morgoth
11-12-2006, 07:45
In his country of the 20 million people who live there only 1 million have internet access.
Croatia has about 4 million inhabitants...:p

Griefbringer
11-12-2006, 08:41
I work in a major web-based IT company and that's a load of hogwash. We do weekly roll-outs of patches and it works brilliantly.

Do all your customers _need_ to have the latest version?

Tastyfish
11-12-2006, 09:59
I think there is probably a few other issues as well regarding protection of IP and suchlike - you have to admit there is a huge difference between a book and a program with regards to distribution on the internet.
On top of that its probably along the lines of the binder idea as well, that at the moment doing something like that is so heavily associated with failed and failing games that its something they will steer away from at all costs.

Bloodknight
11-12-2006, 10:04
@ Harry: ok, you opened the can of worms ;).
If you get any rumours, share them immediately, please
(Damn, I get excited like I haven&#180;t been for the last 3 years).

Shoggoth
11-12-2006, 10:39
I've speak yesterday with Alessio Cavatore attending the italian GT.
We asked him for the future of DoW.
His answer has been:"We would like so much to get a rework on them..but...i don't think in the next future...simply we have to work about the core armies of WHFB...DoWs are a "side-list"..not a core army like dwarfs,HE or Chaos...and DoW sales are the lowest,since they come out...all of you know that GW,after a huge selling time,has dropped down...now we have to get sales back to a good standard (not skyrocket sales,just good sales) and we must focus on top selling armies...which DoW aren't,and never been in the past"

Bloodknight
11-12-2006, 11:07
Yeah, with that much support they get and the great availability of the models (MO only, and bitz order at that) for some time they&#180;re bound the be best selling...;).
Also I believe that much of the DoW sales are hidden in the sales of other armies, mainly Empire, as most people convert models for use in a DoW army, which has to do with all DoW models being metal.
Also the 5th edition book came shortly (that means mere months) before 6th edition rendered it useless, just like the Adeptus Sororitas book in 2nd edition 40K. Clever strategy...

Blessed Knight
11-12-2006, 12:34
...and DoW sales are the lowest,since they come out...all of you know that GW,after a huge selling time,has dropped down...now we have to get sales back to a good standard (not skyrocket sales,just good sales) and we must focus on top selling armies...which DoW aren't,and never been in the past"

Not surprising though, with an all metal force. DoW are much more viable now, using core plastics from all the ranges.

ogres, dwarves, marauders, humans, giants.
it makes for a nice collectors force.

the only thing lacking is the ability to use none human generals and having a decent magic items allowance.

Bun Bun
11-12-2006, 12:58
Not surprising though, with an all metal force. DoW are much more viable now, using core plastics from all the ranges.

ogres, dwarves, marauders, humans, giants.
it makes for a nice collectors force.

the only thing lacking is the ability to use none human generals and having a decent magic items allowance.

I remember they did an article in white dwarf some time back that allowed you to take elven, dwarf and ogre generals for a DOW army. In addition it allowed them to take a variety of skills that worked in a similar fashion to bloodline powers.

Griefbringer
11-12-2006, 13:01
Also the 5th edition book came shortly (that means mere months) before 6th edition rendered it useless.

I thought it was almost two years difference - at least my copy of the 5th edition DoW book states 1998 as the year of the printing.

However, the 5th edition DoW book suffers from the problem that all of the units are RoR (with the exception of a few generic characters), which is a bit restricting - the generic 6th edition DoW list gives a lot more choice to the player. Had they gone for a more generic army list and miniature range to begin with, and fewer RoR units, the end result could have been a bit different.

Bloodknight
11-12-2006, 14:52
What also made the book sort of useless was the fact that not every available RoR was even covered in it, only 15, as they brought out more RoRs after the book.

Harry
11-12-2006, 16:33
Croatia has about 4 million inhabitants...:p

Really???
I just pulled that off a random website. After a google search! So if thats wrong it could all be wrong. Have I just multiplied the population of the planet x5 aswell?
You understand I don't just carry that information around in my head.
I was just trying to grab a few stats to illustrate a point.
Apologies to the inhabitants of any nations I have misrepresented.

@Bloodknight Didn't meen to open a can of worms.

@Shogoth I know they have other priorities. I know they will be doing some of the big Armies first. I think Dwarfs, Orcs and Goblins, Empire, High Elves, Undead/VC, Dark Elves, Chaos/Beasts Skaven will all end up getting done before this but this is not going to take them 5 years! (at 2 and a half a year your only looking at a couple of years) I do not think they will do all the army books before this. I think Bret's, Ogres, Woodies, Lizzies maybe even Tomb Kings will keep for a while. I think they will do Dogs of war before we see anything new (for example Chaos Dwarfs, Araby, etc...)

Bloodknight if I here anything specific at all you will be the first to know!

Reabe
11-12-2006, 17:02
I've speak yesterday with Alessio Cavatore attending the italian GT.
We asked him for the future of DoW.
His answer has been:"We would like so much to get a rework on them..but...i don't think in the next future...simply we have to work about the core armies of WHFB...DoWs are a "side-list"..not a core army like dwarfs,HE or Chaos...and DoW sales are the lowest,since they come out...all of you know that GW,after a huge selling time,has dropped down...now we have to get sales back to a good standard (not skyrocket sales,just good sales) and we must focus on top selling armies...which DoW aren't,and never been in the past"

Take it in that this is about the time that GW started after the Kiddies' cash rather than the Veteran's, and that Dogs of War never got 'Jazzed-up' like the other armies or was never as simple to explain to kiddies (Chaos = Krump 'em all! Empire = Shoot 'em all! Dogs of War = Um... well... er... yes, you need to use tactics in this army, mainly due to the fact it's jack of all trades, master of none...) who were entering the hobby.

It was a cockup, GW's fault. There's hundreds of different things they can do to up the sales of Dogs of War. Release plastic models, (Pikemen and Duellists being at the top of such list) more useful ROR (Yes, Ruglud's Boyz and the Skeleton unit that they released are characterful, but not... useful. One trick ponies. Kruger's unit is an oddity, used by those who need an anvil in their army, but what can Ruglud and his lads do that a unit of Dwarfs with crossbows, heavy armour and great weapons can't?), special characters, "forgein units" (I'd give a kidney to get that Arabian Sorcerer model that was made but never released...) and I can go on for hours before touching on how GW marketing can improve.

Basically, this boils down to this: GW's Accountants CAN make DOW successful (Hell, they made Ogre Kingdom get players, and look how messed up their models and background is!) but for some reason, they're not. Maybe they're lazy and think they should just add more stuff to the Chaos line of models and rules, or maybe there's some other reason.

Axel
11-12-2006, 18:13
I assume they all NEED to have the SAME version, so that the supporst stuff knows exactly whats on their customers comps. But we deviate...

I want PIKEMEN. And if possible, not the Greek Hoplites style used in old Tilean RoRs but the Landsknecht style.

Griefbringer
11-12-2006, 19:49
Really???
I just pulled that off a random website. After a google search! So if thats wrong it could all be wrong. Have I just multiplied the population of the planet x5 aswell?


Global population was on a relatively right level (I am not quite sure what is the current total, 6 billion limit was beaten some time ago), though the populations given for Italy and France where also too high (Italy should be a bit below 60 million, France a bit above 60 million inhabitants).

Ender Shadowkin
11-12-2006, 20:31
Global population was on a relatively right level (I am not quite sure what is the current total, 6 billion limit was beaten some time ago), though the populations given for Italy and France where also too high (Italy should be a bit below 60 million, France a bit above 60 million inhabitants).

Wow, I've never seen a warhammer thread digress into a dicussion of Regional Census data before. Non fictional that is, Athel Loren population, yes, actual eurpoeans no. Good job guys. ;)

Reabe
11-12-2006, 21:27
Wow, I've never seen a warhammer thread digress into a dicussion of Regional Census data before. Non fictional that is, Athel Loren population, yes, actual eurpoeans no. Good job guys. ;)

If the thread goes on for long enough, we'll touch political and religious beliefs, the meaning of life, the universe and everything, and which Chaos God is their favourite, before degrading into moaning about either High Elves' many 0-1 choices or that Chaos has no core range units before it gets locked.

Bloodknight
11-12-2006, 22:04
You forgot Godwin&#180;s Law.
Shame there&#180;s no real rumour atm.

Reabe
11-12-2006, 22:08
You forgot Godwin´s Law.
Shame there´s no real rumour atm.

Oh, that only happens around here when we discuss the High Elf wish list.

"If you want a Sea-Elf army, you're a damn Nazi!"
"Oh, and a Phoneix Guard army is better? Go to hell, you commie!"

It can get grizzly.

Tastyfish
11-12-2006, 23:09
Dogs of War did badly because they weren't really a great concept and were executed in the worst way imaginable - the army lacked any real cohesive theme other than bad puns! Its nothing to do with trying to hide the models in mail order or not releasing them early - its that they mess around with other lists by allowing access to things when other units have been designed and pointed around their absence (cannons in a lizardmen force according to the Designer's notes) and in all cases other than the Empire and as Tileans they don't really make a lot of sense, even then the troops the Empire uses will still be mercenaries a lot of the time.
They highlight the sillyness of a fantasy setting (hmm...could we issue our elite and disciplined spearelves extra long spears, or just keep the crappy short ones and hire those humans instead).

Bad idea, poorly executed. That is why Dogs of War don't sell well and why people would like to see a real army get their books updated first.

A small Tilean book I can live with, as its more or less an unusual varient played more for fun (and counts as Empire easily enough). Ogres as mercs I can just about live with as it adds them back into the armies that used to take them - they look right next to Orcs and goblins alongside giants and trolls. Mercs are either part of the army list (and are already in a couple of cases) or something odd like Lustrian rules, shouldn't be done as a proper army.

That's my point of view anyway

Bloodknight
11-12-2006, 23:19
I don&#180;t agree. It&#180;s a fun army with some of the best models WFB has to offer. The quality is awesome with some exceptions (like the bearmen) and the lack of theme is in my opinion the theme. They&#180;re a modeller&#180;s army.
I&#180;d be content with a Tilean book, but I&#180;d rather have my ragtag heap of mercs.
I hope that if they get redone it will not be a half-arsed attempt like Kislev.

Tastyfish
11-12-2006, 23:26
I don&#180;t agree. It&#180;s a fun army with some of the best models WFB has to offer. The quality is awesome with some exceptions (like the bearmen) and the lack of theme is in my opinion the theme. They&#180;re a modeller&#180;s army.
I&#180;d be content with a Tilean book, but I&#180;d rather have my ragtag heap of mercs.
I hope that if they get redone it will not be a half-arsed attempt like Kislev.

No problem with that, but bear in mind that the same could have been said for the Klans focused Ork list of 2nd 40K - yet the general consensus is that they were better for theming an entire army around and is mixed and matched looked like an explosion in a paint factory (such is the power of quotes that 'explosion in a paint factory' is actually the consensus). You are in the minority in this respect, and with something that fundamental its going to take more than marketing to get them up to the same level as the rest of the armies.

If it had been designed from the current DoW list it would be better at least, the whole army of special characters really put me off them - why do all mercenary armies have the Altcantani fellowship or the Leopard company in them? However as a generic army of Tilea, its merely an Empire varient and doesn't bring a lot of new things to the table.

apartment42
11-12-2006, 23:30
Well after reading these forums for a while now, I finally signed up 'cuz I just had to comment on anything DoW.

Personally, the day I saw the current rules for the Birdmen, compared to the 'original' rules for them, I died a little inside. What used to be WS4/BS4 flyers with moveable crossbows and additional hands weapons, were suddenly wimpy flying humans with regular old bows. To this day, I take Daddallo wherever I go (gaming) as a good luck charm, and to remind me of a better time :(

That aside, I really don't care too much when they come back, so long as they're done right when they do; a full, cohesive list, with history on Tilea (naturally) as well as some more insight (even if its just clarified WFRP stuff) on Sartosa, the Border Princes and such. I guess I would rather have a real Dogs of War / Tilea army, not just a collection of one-off units.

In as much as it would pain my Averlanders, not having access to Tilean mercs, I would suffer it to have another complete army out there.

Oh and, hello!

=A=

Bloodknight
12-12-2006, 05:40
Thing is, I just don&#180;t want to see them go. I also can&#180;t understand how people could wish an army to disappear; what would they say if it was one of theirs?
Maybe I am a bit pissy, because I also play Dark Eldar in 40K, where "army should go" statements come up all the time by some players,too ;).

Tastyfish
12-12-2006, 09:19
Its more complicated than that with Dogs of War than just wishing that orcs were no longer supported (people seem to just like winding dark eldar players up). If the Dogs of War got released in the same style as the Kislevites then fine but some of the people here are acting as if they are owed an army book and won't accept anything less for any reason. There are a lot of problems with the way Dogs of War work as well as stylistically with them - I don't think just updating the armybook from 5th ed or the ravening hordes list is enough, they need some serious development and a critical look at how they should work. What is going to come out of it isn't going to what you have now and people need to accept that rather than make ridiculous claims that DoW would be as popular as any other army if they were marketed that way or that they are being ignored as part of a policy to **** of veterans.

NornTyrant
12-12-2006, 10:34
I think DOW should not have a theme. I mean, looking at the background of it, they are mercs that fought because of money. These guys comes from anywhere, using who knows what kind of weapon. I think, IMHO, ROR did express this theme.

However, it does not mean that GW could not done more. e.g. ROR requires that each regiement should have a character, which could be more costly then others; release of general troops, e.g. swordman, pikeman, e.t.c to give it more varity,

Tastyfish
12-12-2006, 10:47
Were I to be charged with designing the new mercs, I think emphasis should be placed on mercenary companies rather than individual units. Most of the mercs are going to fall at one end of the spectrum or the other (i.e more or less thugs for hire, or as a member of a private army), with far fewer units runing around looking for armies to employ them (these are the equivalents of special characters - a unique character who brings a unique unit).

Really though I'd just give Empire pikes and be done with it seeing as most of their armies are going to be mercs anyway, there is pretty significant gap between state troops like those the dark elves and those of Piddlington on Riek, free port. It also solves the issue of cannons and decent missile troops being taken alongside armies that are pointed to not have cannons or missile troops.

Killshot
12-12-2006, 11:00
I hope to see a number of things regarding the DoW if they get a rewrite, but the number one thing is access to some DoW magic items. I like the idea of the various generals and to give them abilities that are pretty customizable.

At any rate, with the new plastic Empire stuff coming out I am looking at putting together a DoW army using the Foundry pikemen and using the Empire plastics for crossbowmen, halbrediers, and knights.

Sheik Yerbouti
12-12-2006, 16:54
Having played against DOW quite a lot, I don´t think they lack a theme. It´s a mercenary army, many guys who chop other guys´ heads off for cash. Theme enough. Some units don´t really fit in imo ´(eg Asarnil, Tichi-Huichi), they´re few though.


(Damn, I get excited like I haven´t been for the last 3 years).

I bet your girlfriend ain´t gonna be glad to hear that ;)

Bloodknight
12-12-2006, 17:44
^^. Well, I meant Warhammer related excitement.
I think she&#180;d understand. ;)
Give yours a hug from us.

Crazy Harborc
12-12-2006, 20:18
Fortunately, my long time regular opponents like to use DoW/RoR in THEIR armies too. We don't normally worry about what can go to a tournie. We do have a long time habit of warning each other about what's coming in the next battle.;)

Suicide Messiah
12-12-2006, 22:10
The RoR army sucked. The blandest (is that actually a word?) thing in your army was your characters and that just makes no sense. The current list is much better even though i have no idea of how it preforms. I think somthing like that but with more magic items and background would be fine.

Bloodknight
12-12-2006, 23:17
The DoW list is slightly underpowered, IMO. I actually like RoRs because it&#180;s always fun to have 8 characters in a 2K army ;).

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
13-12-2006, 19:20
Well, if people would like, maybe we at warseer could start a comittee (I never remember how to spell that bloody word) to brainstorm some good, balanced ideas to send to GW and make their work a bit easier? Let the mods appoint a group of, say, 10 to 12 respected objective members of the forums (privately, obviously, so as to save feelings) to convene regularly and discuss proposals in a private online setting, and then regularly release updates and new rules/stats/magic items or whatnot for the rest of the gaming community here at warseer to playtest in their games. This way, we can send GW some ideas, and if there is enough interest, hope to convince them that DoW is a list that could sell well if they would just make a book. We don't even need models, since Dogs of War can represent just about anything, and encourage conversions. Just an idea; what do you guys think?
Cheers.

Harry
13-12-2006, 23:20
It's a good idea but the problem is not the rules, stats and magic items, but the basic structure of the list. How to resolve the conflicting demands of; A tilean based army, Other mercenary forces, The regiments of renown. etc.
I fear with 10 or 12 people there would be 10 or 12 different ways of doing this.

I like the way the Kislev contingent worked. I would like to see a big book with a Different contingents: Tilean, Estallian, Kislev, but also Albion and Norse (they are not all Chaos marauders) and most important...Halflings of the Empire. I would also like a section on the Border Princes. (I would have this work in a different way but I won't go into it now) and finally RoR. with matrix for who could be hired by which armies.

However, I don't think many others would do it this way. I just like the contingent thing. Worked a bit like being able to take a % of allies in previous editions. It allowed you to collect minis from another army that interested you without needing to build an entire army.

Stouty
13-12-2006, 23:27
As long as you were limited to 1 type of allied contingent for every full 2000pts it would work.

For instance in 1 2000pts game I could not take Tilean, RoR and halfling reinforcements for my army. This way we can limit the posibilility for abuse.

Chris_Tzeentch
15-12-2006, 17:21
I say use a system where you select a basic unit and race, and pay points to give them equipment and skills/attributes. This would allow you to create an entire army. For example, you could choose a goblin unit as the starting race, then pay points to make them skirmishers, give them handguns, and maybe pay points for a BS upgrade. The more skills they get depends on whether or not they are core, special or rare. The races allowed in the army depend on the race of the general. Just a thought!

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
15-12-2006, 18:35
Since when can Goblins use handguns? This just sounds like a way to give your favorite races crap that they wouldn't usually have, that aren't allowed in the army list. If you want a Goblin army list, the O&G book should more than suffice.
What next, elves with hand guns? Chaos with bows? Orcs with undergarments? It's heresy, I say! Heresy!

I'm with whoever said just give the Empire fraggin' pikemen, and drop DoW. This would represent the Lansknechts in the Holy Roman Empire in the 16th century, which the Empire is set in anyway. Then no more people calling VC players beardy for taking cannons in their armies, etc. At least until a proper army list can be developed.
Cheers.

PS- I am an Empire player, so I'm naturally biased here... but while I'm being wishful, drop the pikeblokes to 8 points with light armor? ;-)

Parka boy
15-12-2006, 18:35
Hi I don't know if anyone else has posted anything like this but I thought I'd put it up anyway.

I was on the phone ordering the Empire army book and the guy mentioned that even though theres no army list entry in either the Orc & Goblin book and the Empire book they are still a legal choice.

No there not! You cant use anything that isn't in your army book or you'd get people bringing on baneblades and the like.

Ender Shadowkin
15-12-2006, 18:51
However, I don't think many others would do it this way. I just like the contingent thing. Worked a bit like being able to take a % of allies in previous editions. It allowed you to collect minis from another army that interested you without needing to build an entire army.

Back in the 3rd that was essentially how it worked. There was one army book and it had all of the basic expanded armies and then a whole set of mercinary and allied contingents, these included elements of each main list and a whole slew of others such as Hobgoblens, fimir and old worlders (tilleans etc). A contingent consisted of a continent commaner (hero) plus other hero and unit choices. For example you could have high elf allies in your list, the contingent allowed a commander a lvl 2 (equivlanet) mage and some basic troop types (Silver helms, Sea Guard, Elite Archers) you didn;t have access to any of the really unique parts of a list through the contingent rules. You were further resetricted in the number of allies/mercinatier with a percentage of the total points.

I'm not really sure why they moved away from this concept, but I really miss it, they essentially just grabbed one contingent (old worlders) expanded it and dropped the rest.

Allies and Mercinaries are fun, you just need a sufficient draw back so that the trade off is a hard decisoin, A big one already is the restricion of Magic items, if you can't tool up mercinary/allied heroes they are not as valuable. Another good potential drawback is that if you included a contingent it would eat up a rare slot for every 500 points . A contingent being a hero and a couple of units. Then throw in some rules about not using each others heroes for LD, contingent heroes sucking up charector slots, and maybe some chain of command issues . . .I'm missing at what is so hard about it. I suppose it may come down to being such a big change (allowing contingents) it would take an overwheliming amount of playtesting so that it dosn't upset the tournmanet scene.

Azurath
15-12-2006, 20:19
It's a good idea but the problem is not the rules, stats and magic items, but the basic structure of the list. How to resolve the conflicting demands of; A tilean based army, Other mercenary forces, The regiments of renown. etc.
I fear with 10 or 12 people there would be 10 or 12 different ways of doing this.

I like the way the Kislev contingent worked. I would like to see a big book with a Different contingents: Tilean, Estallian, Kislev, but also Albion and Norse (they are not all Chaos marauders) and most important...Halflings of the Empire. I would also like a section on the Border Princes. (I would have this work in a different way but I won't go into it now) and finally RoR. with matrix for who could be hired by which armies.

However, I don't think many others would do it this way. I just like the contingent thing. Worked a bit like being able to take a % of allies in previous editions. It allowed you to collect minis from another army that interested you without needing to build an entire army.

While I would like to see Tilea and Kislev get full lists, in the absense of that happening I think this is a great idea. It also lets you still base around the existing DoW list, with maybe just giving each specific detachment one or two units unique to that detachment (heavy armored pikemen and Leonardo gadgets for Tilea, Conquistadore type units for Estalia, Kislev is set, etc).

Crazy Harborc
15-12-2006, 20:29
If it's not just for some different/better/whatever army toys, why not have GW remind people they are allowed to change names of characters, units, etc. already. Might not be allowed in tournies......gotta ask to find out.

Borc, lord and general, his Borcian Guard, etc., have shown up at GW stores and at indie events for years.

Killshot
15-12-2006, 21:01
Another thing I would like clarified for the rules regarding pikes would be the fact that chariots impact hits are resolved before pike attacks. If this is the letter of rules, it doesn't make any sense to me. If this is not how the pikes work them I have been bamboozled!

Eldem
15-12-2006, 23:05
Meaning of life is 42
God is a kid with a magnifying glass
My favorite Chaos god is Malal
Malal is real
high elfs are screwed.
chaos needs more choices,
Why oh why does GW hateus

I think that covers every possible diversioin back onto the point of the thread

goj
16-12-2006, 00:04
morgot is right. croatia has 4-5 million inhabitants. :D your freind is from an another country...:D

im from hungary, which is 2 times bigger, but i dont know anybady who is in this hobby and dont have an access to the internet. (maybe because he or she really dont have internet access...:D ) for me seems impossible a people who never heard from the internet and playing warhammer. its possible that he or she dont have an internet access at home, but i think its impossible that he dont know at least 1 player who has...in hungary every wh club have their own forum or their own site. and hungary is a small country...we havent any official gw store!

every online faq is welcome here! :D

Paulus
16-12-2006, 18:27
I initially assumed they would redo all the army books before looking at this. (OR any new armies) I was wrong. On both counts. Keep your arms in the ride at all times. Hold Tight.

Oooh! Is that a little hint that something shiny & new's being worked on there Harry?

Looking at your other posts I'd have a guess at Chaos Dwarf's/Araby.

I think the problem with Dogs of War is that they are from the time when allies were regurlarly used & inc in the army books.

bluesky322
29-12-2006, 01:51
personaly i often use dogs of war

like for my vamps ill take some heavy calvery to support my few black knights i am even working on a dogs of war list as it is i have the general the wizard the paymaster crossbowmen dwarfs heavy calvery a cannon crewed by zombies a giant

note that this isnt my list just some of the current unites i have built to choose from for this list

Thurizdan
29-12-2006, 04:29
Strange thing about DoW armies without any RoR is people get too carried away with things like wizard lords on pegasi and units of four maneaters et al. I played a DoW army with my Brettonians once and I had more models! Only 60 of mine were peasants...:D

Crazy Harborc
30-12-2006, 02:16
I feel aneed for a DoW/RoR combo army in my near future. Got an old friend, opponent who will agree to "one more time the old way":D That is a perk of non-official gaming locations/private homes with gaming tables.

speedygogo
30-12-2006, 08:54
I agree with that. Everyone has access to the internet in some capacity these days, even if they cant print things off they can look at the list and if they have to send it to someone who can print they can

Theres no reason at all why a decent amount of rules/FAQs shouldnt be online

Online facts could even be an additional source of revenue. The could sell a modestly priced membership and create variant lists and such. Maybe even sell exclusive LE mini's.

bluesky322
30-12-2006, 09:57
ok i am tired so i might not be thinking straight but what is LE

BlazeXI
30-12-2006, 10:46
ok i am tired so i might not be thinking straight but what is LE

Limited Edition

azazel_fallenangel
02-01-2007, 13:03
I'm thinking of doing DOW now that Empire has been released, some their plastics could easily become mercs, Crossbowmen and the General kits are going to first. Just file off all Twin-Tailed Comets and the words Sigmar,

Chiron
02-01-2007, 13:40
morgot is right. croatia has 4-5 million inhabitants. :D your freind is from an another country...:D ....
every online faq is welcome here! :D

yay :D

but anyway... a decent online FAQ would also be good, as well as more variant lists (possibly SC tailored seeing as they are pushing these guys lately)

Palatine Katinka
02-01-2007, 18:18
When it comes to will they/won't they, remember that they can change their minds. In the past year I've heard that there will be a plastic Baneblade from a friend who visited Lenton, a couple of months later I went there myself and on a tour of the place I was told it wouldn't happen. Apparently 40k would just become "Baneblade Wars". Now I'm hearing that it'll be in stores by this Winter! I thing the same could be happening with Dogs of War, considering the discussions about whether Vamps will be out before H.Elves, a schedule for mercenaries will be far from final.

Crazy Harborc
02-01-2007, 18:36
In the mean time, my money is on continuing to use the PDF files for DoW and RoR. I plan on needing those files for at least two years.

Two different rumors from people connected to the same company is a tried and true tool of keeping the customers talking/thinking about products yet to be released.

GW has proven to be very good at "stirring the stick" to keep customers thinking about what will come, when will it come, how many more delays before I can buy it??? Gee I must have it!!! Building anticipation is an art that GW has learned well.

Master Vampire
02-01-2007, 21:11
Everyone has access to the internet?
Thats you position is it?
Interesting world view?
One of my Warseer friends is from Croatia.
In his country of the 20 million people who live there only 1 million have internet access.

Mr. IT company would you like to guess at the bandwidth and internet speed for those that do have internet access?
I imagine a tad slower than you enjoy for those big downloads.

Closer to home ....
In Italy only 24 million out of 62 million.
In France only 28 million out of 77million
I could go on and try and list all the Nations that are represented on Warseer but I think you get my point.

Even if you only consider the English speaking world. ...287 million out of 500 million

Nice. Now I'm glad I live in the Netherlands ! About everyone of the 16 million do have internet connection, and fast ones too :D