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Koldun
10-12-2006, 13:50
Well, has anyone seen this new game from Rackham called AT-43?

I was looking over a boxed set yesterday and I've gotta say it looks pretty amazing. I wasn't able to afford the £45 that it cost to buy it, but they've packaged it in an awesome way (with clear plastic so that you can see into it). All of the models are pre-painted, and they're the best quality pre-painted modles I've ever seen. Their models are proper plastic rather than rubber, which is what I thought they'd be.

It comes with a rulebook, which unfortunately I was unable to read due to the plastic packaging around it :( But it also has dice and a measuring tape (a damn shabby one but a measuring tape nonetheless).

Now while I can't afford it yet, it's top of my 'to buy' list and I can't wait to get it.

Has anybody else played this game? If so what are the rules like, I want to know. I heard that the rules are downloadable from a site somewhere but I can't find it :(

Damien 1427
10-12-2006, 14:08
Poked my head into the local independent, and they had a fair few. The owner showed me some of the pieces, and they're nice. Despite being prepainted, the plastic is good quality and detailed, not the bendy crap they make Heroclix or Star Wars Miniatures out of, and the painting is good. You know the pictures you see on the website? That's how they look in real life.

I'd say £50 is worth it, if you're keener on playing than painting. Personally, I doubt I'll pick it up, but if they release the terrain (Like those cargo containers) I might pick a few up for Necromunda.

jazzdude78
10-12-2006, 15:59
it was 60 bucks (30 pounds) for preorder from thewarstore but shipping might have been a bit much for you guys

at-43.com has the english rulebook for DL

havent played yet but I do like a few of the minis

bob syko
10-12-2006, 22:24
I was taking a look at it and it looks pretty good. An option with models I could paint myself would of been nice though.

jazzdude78
10-12-2006, 22:51
by the examples on a german board just priming over them works fine
course that was awhile ago and this could have changed

bob syko
10-12-2006, 22:57
by the examples on a german board just priming over them works fine
course that was awhile ago and this could have changed

Aren't they painted by hand? I would feel bad just painting over something someone had put time into. It would go against my painting morals.

Obvious_Ninja
11-12-2006, 18:50
The "Street Date" is today 11-Dec, at least in the US. I down-loaded the free starter rules and I like what I see so far. They (Rackham) have some of the other models on their website too. I have some hopes for this one…

idespair
12-12-2006, 14:13
I picked up the box set at the weekend. The plastic is good quality - much stronger than Wizards/Wizkids pre-painted. Many of the joints can be re-posed, and the paint jobs range from fair to excellent - I'd be pleased if most of my figures came out looking as good, and you can always gently touch up any you aren't happy with. The two Walkers are absolutely fantastic miniatures. I also like the gaming mat and included plastic scenery - I hope they continue to produce similar pieces.

Jesse Custer
12-12-2006, 16:18
I had a look, the price was a bit high for me at the time (in France its around 80€).

What I liked:
-the packaging, nice box and well presented
-the miniatures - the quality of painting is higher than I actually expected
-the different models - dreadnought thingie & troopers
-scenarios

What I didn't like:
-the price especially because I don't know what would be the prices of the coming range so I'm not sure it would be interesting to start with this box.
- the rules....you don't get the rules for the system! You only get what you need to play with what comes from this box.
- Necrons-type models. Not very very original. I would have liked something a bit different from what I already know. Some of them could do some good Necrons count-as in 40k anyway.


I'll wait to see the rulebook to have a try.

de Selby
12-12-2006, 18:07
I rather like the necron-y things.


Aren't they painted by hand? I would feel bad just painting over something someone had put time into. It would go against my painting morals.

Even if they're production-line paintjobs, if they look even half decent I'd be reluctant to just prime over them. I know how many of my models I get partway through, then get fed up and finish ASAP just so they're tabletop-ready. On the other hand, collecting models and not painting them myself is just...wrong.

It's weird, but I think I'm less likely to buy this product than an identical product (at identical price) that hadn't been pre-painted. Hmmm.

TheWarSmith
12-12-2006, 19:20
That's because for those of us that are hobbyists, which I'd assume is most of us, GW products are more of a hobby than a game. With this game, you're not buying a hobby(modelling/painting/etc.), you're buying a pre packaged game to play, and that's it.

I'll wait to see a game played before I decide.

Jesse Custer
14-12-2006, 12:51
I think pre-painted models is a good move from Rackham (and the paint job is more than average for this kind of stuff). There is a demand for this kind of products.
As the Warsmith wrote, however, I do prefer to paint/ convert my own miniatures as I value it probably more than gaming actually.

That isn't an issue as you can still paint over the models. So that's cool.

baphomael
14-12-2006, 14:35
Must say, I do quite like the look of this game. But I'm not tempted to pick the initiation box up...I think I'll wait to see what happens with it...then I might pick up some Therian models and a rulebook.

Or maybe Red Block. Space Commies!

swordwind
16-12-2006, 00:12
If everyone waits to see what happens then nothing will happen...

shakespear
23-12-2006, 23:02
My thoughts (and photos)

http://www.thegamersanctuary.com/cgi-bin/Sanctuary/YaBB.pl?num=1166211599

Easy E
24-12-2006, 14:06
Well, I think they did a great ob with the pre-paints. Easily the best I've seen. Sadly, they paint better than I do. Still, I don't think I can bring myself to buy it. As the Warsmith said, I'm a hobbyist and not a gamer.

Kalamadea
25-12-2006, 19:59
Picked up a set the other day. At $80 USD is a pretty big chunk of money, but you deffinately get your money's worth out of it. 17 infantry, 2 big mechs, some pretty cool terrain, dice, tape measure, gaming map, and a starter rulebook. As has already been said, quality is very good compared to all the other pre-painted games out there and even compared to the majority of the gaming community the paint jobs are decent, especially on the combat striders (the mechs/robots/dreadnoughts). What's nice is how easy they are to touch up if you're so inclined, a simple black wash over the humans, a very light drybrush of grey for the aliens, and repainting the bases just takes an hour or three, but really makes them pop. The humans are perfect for "The Dip" method, especially tudor, although a dark walnut would probably work okay. Even pre-painted, all the detail is still there should you want to break out the brushes and repaint parts of them or even if you wanted to prime over and paint. There is some flash in some places, but very little. As somebody who loves painting but already has a number of full armies still to be done, I'm totally in love with the idea of non-collectible prepainted figs. You could use them straight out of the box, completely repaint them, or anywhere in between.

As for the game itself, I'll have to wait for more stuff to make it playable. The "rulebook" looks like a full rulebook at first glance, until you realize that it consists of the same 20-odd pages in 5 different languages. Worse, the book is set up very Battle for Macragge intro-book style where you learn the game by playing through 6 missions, each mission introducing a new rule or two so you have the moving and shooting mission with the combat striders, the squad coherency and shooting with squads mission, the close combat mission and so forth. It also is just the quick-start rules, so there's no rules yet for morale or damage allocation on the combat striders (both of which are on the stat card). The back of the book has a chart just like battle for macragge for what value you need to roll to hit when shooting with a certain model and what value you need to roll for that unit to wound a certain enemy. Great if you've never played a miniatures game before, but for any veteran gamer it's a terrible set up. Fortunately, the book is pretty well translated and edited (a few flubs, nothing major) which is something they've been hit or miss with in the past.

The game itself plays pretty well, sort of an amalgam between 40K and confrontation. It seems to be designed for 40K sized armies, so playing with only the box contents is sort of like playing 40K with only the battle for macragge set. Still, the basics seem pretty solid. Each turn you place the unit stat cards face down in the order you want to activate your units and then roll for initiative and the winner chooses to go first or second for that turn. You then alternate activating units in the order you placed the cards, one player flips a card, and completes the unit's actions, the other flips a card and completes that unit's actions and so forth until all units have been activated where you reorder your cards and roll for initiative again. Activated units can move-shoot, shoot-move, shoot-move-attack in close combat (if they moved to engage a model using base movement, there is no charge as such), or run. all measurement is in CMs and movement is listed on the left side of the stat cards, followed by morale (not used in the starter) then armor value (think toughness), and close combat value (weapon skill). These stats are the same no matter what weapon the trooper is armed with. The bottom of the cards has the stat lines for different weapons (both ranged and close combat) with accuracy value listed first, then a fraction which is how many shots you get/how many times you may reroll any misses with those shots. The next value is blast radius (so far nothing has this) and the last value is another fraction telling you weapon strength/damage points. So a human trooper has a rifle thats [5 1/0 - 5/1], meaning he has accuracy 5, 1 shot with no rerolls, no blast radius, and a strength of 5 thats does one points of damage (the infantry have 1 wound, human combat striders have 4 alien striders have 5). Certain cards have 3 other stats that aren't used in the starter either, and one stat decidedly missing from the cards is a points value for units. Hopefully those will be listed in the main rulebook when it comes out.

Shooting is interesting, kinda similar to shooting in confrontation. The measuring tape has inches and CMs on one side, and increments of 10CMs on the back with the first increment starting at 0 and going up from there. This is the difficulty of the shot, range seems to be unlimited but gets harder to hit the further you shoot until you automatically miss, something I'll explain later. You make a single measurement from one unit's leader to the other unit's leader for range, and you're allowed to split fire if you wish. To hit, you compare the difficulty of the shot based on range to the accuracy of the weapon (each weapon has a it's own accuracy, even the same troop type). You take the difference between the accuracy and difficulty and compare it to the aptly named Universal Table of Resolution. The chart is similar to the To Wound chart from 40K but in increments of 2 instead of 1. For a difference between accuracy/difficulty is 0 or 1 you need a 4+ to hit on a D6, for a difference of 2 or 3 you'll either need a 3+ or a 5+ depending on which was higher, a difference of 4 or 5 is a 2+ or a 6+ and a difference of 6 or more means you will either auto-hit or auto-miss. If you hit with a shot, you compare the strength of the weapon to the armor value (again, think toughness) of the enemy and consult the chart again to see what you need to wound. There is no separate armor save, but you get a 5+ cover save if behind cover. Most stuff only has one wound, so you'd remove a casualty at this point. Some weapons like the rocket launcher are "locked weapons" and always hit on a fixed number no matter the range, but can't shoot infantry, just combat striders and terrain (no rules for destroying terrain yet, but it's mentioned)

Close combat is much the same as shooting. If you move within 2.5cm of an enemy model you are engaged. There is no bonus movement or effect for charging, you just move up to an enemy and swing away. Only the activated model/unit fights and you compare the accuracy of the close combat weapon to the close combat value of the trooper and compare it to the Universal Table of Resolution for what you need to hit. Then you compare the weapon strength to the armor value and , you guessed it, consult the Universal Table of Resolution!

There's some other stuff in the quick start rules too, but that's the gist of the game. It'll be nice when the full rulebook comes out in March, right now it feels like playing Hordes/Warmachine with just the poster quick-start rules. Pretty simple, but you're gonna need more stuff to play with because the games only last a half hour or so with the starter.

shakespear
26-12-2006, 06:03
I paid $60 online and think it is a great deal.

I like how they do assault. I like how you can move-shoot, shoot-move, shoot-move-attack in close combat.

I like no armor saves, auto hitting, the way you draw line of sight.

erion
26-12-2006, 13:49
I haven't played yet, but the models and game presentation are very good for pre-painted games. I should be getting my first games in on Thursday.

Brother Ranz
28-12-2006, 03:09
If GW had pre-painted grunts, I'd buy them.

I am a hobbiest and a gamer and I have too much I want and not enough time to paint. I'l paint my Confrontation and simply collect AT-43. I just picked up a second starter. I will possibly touch up a few models and may brighten their bases, but I am very happy with the game. It gives me more crack to buy without overtaxing my painting schedule. I plan to get Battlefield Evolution and the Pre-painted Starship Troopers as well!

chuckyhol
28-12-2006, 17:55
I agree with Ranz (who I believe it also on the PP forums - nice to see you here as well!).

I really like to paint - one model a month or so. I like to do a really nice job when I have a couple of hours on the weekend, and can work on it through the month.

However, I do NOT have time to paint my 40k army, my warmachine army, and my hordes army. I like to play the game, but I can't possibly paint 120+ minis and all of them have a nice enough paint job for me to be satisfied. For that reason, this game looks like a godsend.

I'm a high school student, you likes to keep up high grades and play a sport...it's hard to fit doll painting into a schedule like that.

I know i'm going to buy the starter set, and probably one of each expansion coming out.

Not only that, it seems the perfect way to get friends into it. The cost isn't too high as you can play smallish games and still have fun, and ofcourse there are no extra costs like dice, tape measure, terrain, tokens etc if they get the box set.

I'm loving AT-43.

Chuck

Brother Ranz
28-12-2006, 18:20
Nice to be seen! It's also good to see a gamer who does not suffer from "I hate every other game other than the one I love", with interests beyond gaming and winning teh internetz.

erion
28-12-2006, 19:20
Whoa! Hi Ranz!

RE: Prepainted GW. In My ever-so-humble opinion, they would make a mint if they started selling LotR as a pre-painted game in addition to the line they have now. Same rules, same figures, just pay some Asian people to put a decent coat of paint on them and people who are scared of the 'Assemble & Paint' overhead don't have an excuse anymore. They could package their Mines of Moria Box, prepainted of course, with a half-decent playmat a la AT-43 and break into the high-end board game market that's currently dominated by Fantasy Flight as well.

But what do I know...

chuckyhol
28-12-2006, 20:06
I agree. However, I believe AT-43 is using machines to do it? Not 8 yr old taiwanese immigrants locked in dungeons and whipped by an overseer? I agree however, and even i'd be interested in that game.

Chuck

colhodg
29-12-2006, 02:32
Agreed - does look very good. Strong points of Rackham for me is the high quality of the artwork and mini design with the clarity of their rules and GW equiv price being the two major negatives.
I'll wait till i see more of the rules but i think they've done a better job with translating from french this time - also good to see another company raising the gaming bar - there's a lot of cool stuff around at the mo.

Wraithbored
29-12-2006, 18:31
I picked up a box today I must say I am impressed but then again I have tried most wargaming systems. And this one seems very clear and the minis are good I will however add some individual paints to them! :)

erion
29-12-2006, 19:51
I Played a couple of the missions last night and the system seems like it will still be quick and fluid with a large number of units on the table. I'll still need to see the full rules for a final judgement, but that will likely not prevent me from buying new stuff as it comes out.

Smokedog
29-12-2006, 22:30
Just played AT-43 today, 3 missions and one battle. The basic rules are really basic, I hope that they release some advanced rules soon. The box set seems to be wieghted in favor of the aliens if you play a straight battle. The therians Combat strider is a lot more versitile than the white stars. Not overly impressed. I want to like the game, but it needs to be played with the full rules beofre I pass judgement.

erion
10-01-2007, 11:39
Rackham announced yesterday that the advanced rules, sans fluff, will be available on their site as a free download. French probably in February, English probably in March.

They've also made public on their forums some of the advanced rules and model point costs from Cry Havic 14 which isn't availble yet in english.

Persephone
10-01-2007, 16:09
I've been playing AT-43 for a few months now and I am enjoying it a lot because the set up is quick and the gameplay is so fast paced. There is still enough in there to make some tactical decisions but the game doesn't get bogged down with too many rules.

erion
10-01-2007, 16:51
Indeed. I can't wait to get my hands on another starter box or some more mins to play bigger games. I can't imagine it getting too much more complicated.

tabletopnews
10-01-2007, 17:41
If anyone is interested there are two reviews of the Operation Damocles box on TGN

Game review
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?p=5105

Miniature discussion
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?p=5186

sindarelve
17-01-2007, 22:54
Just bought my AT-43 box today and I'm really impressed with that initiation set as a whole, but specially the minis. Really they look far better in person, and i'll ad only some higlights on both therian and white stars. Nice terrain, booklet and extra bits too. Highly satisfied for an 80€ inversion.......and the future just seems brilliant. It's time for change......

Excellent work Rackham!!!!!

Good Bye Games Workshop!!!!!