PDA

View Full Version : broadside vs hammerhead



Tau Man
10-12-2006, 21:47
I was thinking of buying more heavy support for my Tau, but I dont know what to get. would it be better to get 2 broadside battlesuits than one hammerhead? why?

Luke
10-12-2006, 21:50
Get the broadsides, that way you will have the excuse to buy two of those gorgeous Forgeworld variants (Instead of the GW standard bum.)

Game wise, I couldn't say as I only really used hammerheads which work out pretty cool if you stick em in fire alleys.

cav da man
10-12-2006, 21:53
broadsides have the bonus of more shots and twin linked so use them if you need some good anti tank
hammerheads are mobile and have submunitions, personally the hammerhead is an ok compromise.

Baneboss
10-12-2006, 21:53
Depends on the foe. Hammerheads are normally more versatile.

Gutlord Grom
10-12-2006, 21:53
Get a squad of three Broadsides. Much more annoying to your foe. Add xhield drones or personal shields.

Tau Man
10-12-2006, 21:55
I think the broadsides would be better for show, but the hammerhead for ultimate power.

How are the hammerheads more versatile?

Sir_Lunchalot
10-12-2006, 21:58
What's the rest of your army like? Mobile, static, mixed?

Gen_eV
10-12-2006, 22:00
Well, nothing beats the FW gorgeousness of the Broadsides, so thatwould be my decision made for me. Well, that and an inherent dislike of Tanks. (Which I'm valiantly fighting by buiding a Mechanised Marine force)

gameplay-wise, I think most people find the option to move-and-shoot with the Hammerhead to be well worth the extra cost involved, not to mention the added anti-infantry capability afforded by the submunitions.

Luke
10-12-2006, 22:02
Off topic: Watch those double posts Tau man, there is an edit button.


ps, buy the FW broadsides! :D`

Tymell
10-12-2006, 22:04
I for one always feel uncomfortable with tanks: one lucky shot can take it out. So I'd go with broadsides, you still get decent flexibility and strength.

Tau Man
10-12-2006, 22:07
the rest of my army is very mixed. both maybe?
I usually am also uncomfortable using tanks(except for piranas) because they always get destroyed first.

bob syko
10-12-2006, 22:08
Hammerheads are more versatile because they can give a good old gettin' to either tanks or troops. The ordanance template is very scary for everyone so people will tend to obsess over the hammerhead as well. Broadsides however are designed more with tanks in mind, they do have smart missiles though.

t-tauri
10-12-2006, 22:19
Off topic: Watch those double posts Tau man, there is an edit button.
Seconded.

Go with broadsides if you don't want to move, hammerheads if you want mobility.

Baneboss
10-12-2006, 22:20
How are the hammerheads more versatile?

No offence but if you cant answer that yourself you should buy a codex first.

Against who are you going to play? We cant really answer the thread question if you dont give us a clue.

devolutionary
10-12-2006, 22:36
Indeedy, Hammerheads are excellent mobile firepower. Broadsides are superb for shots and anti-tank damage, nothing can put out as much damage as them for their role, but they have issues with moving in to position. I prefer the Broadsides for covering a Firewarrior line. I rely heavily on Kroot and Gun Drone harrassment units as well as close range Crisis support for my mobility though, so I don't need any more mobility in my force, only defensive capabilities..

fracas
10-12-2006, 23:07
also consider how you will play. if you escalate bringing units into the game, then the mobility of the hammerhead is way superior

Colonel_Kreitz
10-12-2006, 23:41
Mobility is indeed nice, but I think the Broadsides end up being superior? Why? Well, let me tell you from a Guardsman's perspective.

I hate fighting Tau players with Broadsides. 2 twin linked railguns are bad enough, and make a mess of my tanks (moreso than a lone Hammerhead). Moreover, when you give them shield drones, they become virtually unkillable. Think about it. It's a 6 model unit. The first 4 wounds have to go to models with 2+/4+ saves, and the last two models still have 2+ saves. That is just a nightmare to kill. It wasn't as bad under the old codex when the shield drones didn't acquire the 2+ save from the Broadsides, but nowadays, it takes so much to knock Broadsides down (especially in a squad of 3 with 6 drones) that I tend to just ignore them and try to position my tanks outside their LOS, which still isn't a good option since my armor ends up being less effective, with fewer targets.

Tau Man
11-12-2006, 01:12
No offence but if you cant answer that yourself you should buy a codex first.

Against who are you going to play? We cant really answer the thread question if you dont give us a clue.

I am mainly playing against nids, orks, and space marines, and second I already have the codex, so I have already read the codex, I just posted this thread so I can get some player's opinions.

The Wraithlord
11-12-2006, 01:50
My opinion is that Broadsides are the better choice. I run a unit of 3 in my 2000pt list and never more than one Hammerhead. The HH is nice, no doubt, but as I have discovered, the 'sides do the job of a HH far more effectively. With BS's you have the twinlinked guns opposed to the single shot of the HH. Mobility can be added to them as well with the Advanced Stabilation System, albeit slow movement but I have found it to be more than enough in most cases. I have also found that most of the time, opponents tend to really focus in on the 'sides even more than the Hammerhead simply because they are so hard to kill. Vehicles are fairly fragile in 4th ed and even a simple glancing hit will negate any ability or utility that you needed from your Hammerhead for a turn. Broadsides don't suffer from this.

In short, take at least 1 Hammerhead, but if you are looking to add more HS to it, Broadsides are the way to go.

cailus
11-12-2006, 02:05
I hate Braodsides - they lack manouvrability (and hence seem unfluffy) and act as lascannon magnets - my own rarely lasted a single turn before they got turned to molten slag (even with shield generators).

Tau Man
11-12-2006, 02:06
I do not like moving around with the Tau much because they would get slaughtered if they ended up in cc. My main reason to not move is to stand and shoot like crazy. So I would not want to spend many points on the 18'' movement that hh have when I can use those points on extra weaponry.

Dyrnwyn
11-12-2006, 02:25
I'd say it depends on what you have right now. If you already have a Hammerhead, go with the Broadsides. If you don't have a Hammerhead yet, get one first.

Tau Man
11-12-2006, 02:53
well, I do not have either right now, thats why I started this thread.

Colonial Rifle
11-12-2006, 02:54
With the changes to the Shield Drone rule and the ASS, the Broadside is a more reliable anti-tank platform than a Hammerhead. It's pretty easy to shake a HH and stop it firing, while the Broadsides can absorb all sorts and keep on going.

The ASS is the biggest bonus though - getting that shot on an opponent when they thought they were safe is a god send.

starlight
11-12-2006, 03:03
When I get around to my Tau force, it's going to be all suits.:D Mostly because I don't like the look of their tanks. However, I've liking the look of some of the conversions in the Painting Threads.:D

Sarge
11-12-2006, 03:35
I am mainly playing against nids, orks, and space marines, and second I already have the codex, so I have already read the codex, I just posted this thread so I can get some player's opinions.

Than the Hammerhead is clearly a better investment, with it's accurate ordanance blast, and it's anit-armor capabilities. Horde armies like the Nids and Orks loath blast weapons, let alone ordanence blast weapons that don't scatter. While SM players will typically point all their guns at the tank, trying to save their precious vehicles, thus making an effective anti-tank weapon, and distraction.

Reflex
11-12-2006, 03:49
hammerhead... the tank looks cool.. come on.... you know you want it...

cailus
11-12-2006, 04:12
I do not like moving around with the Tau much because they would get slaughtered if they ended up in cc. My main reason to not move is to stand and shoot like crazy. So I would not want to spend many points on the 18'' movement that hh have when I can use those points on extra weaponry.

I find that Tau excel in movement, especially their Crisis and Stealth suits. Couple them with markerlights and you have extremely mobile long range firepower (e.g. 30 inch range plasma rifles).

The Firewarriors are static but if you play with decent terrain coverage you will be moving to find a good firing spot. And then there's mech Tau which would be interesting to use.

As I said the only unit I find it to be unmaneouvrable is the bloody XV-88's. The Firewarriors can withstand a couple of lascannon hits but the Broadsides cannot (and in my experience people pack lascannons against Tau to deal with the heavy suits and tanks)

The Orange
11-12-2006, 04:30
It really depends on what your facing, but if your facing tyranids and orks, I'd probably go with the Hammerhead.

Personally I always go with 2 BS though. Their there purely to kill hard targets like tanks and MC's. They can be tough as nails too, but don't take it that thier practically invulnerable. Unlike the HH, they need to take target priority tests, and unlike a tank, they can get stuck in cc or have thier fire lane blocked. The HH is indeed more versitile, it's faster, it can fly out of cc, it dosen't need to take TP tests, and can handle both Hard Targets, and soft targets (infintry), but on the flip side, it only get's one railgun shot (not much to pin you hopes and dreams on), and of course you never know if it will go down in one shot.

The reason I suggest the HH over the BS, is because of that beautiful pie plate, it can take out whole packs of genestealers in one shot, etc., and it can quicly respond to threaths (tyranids, and even orks can be fast). Besides, as a tau player you should get used to useing tanks, it will help you all the more to get used to using transported Fire Warrior squads. I'm not saying you need to go Mecha. Tau, but in some cases those mobile units are necessary.

Sarge
11-12-2006, 04:39
He said he was facing Nids Orks and SM

lapis_lazuli
11-12-2006, 13:55
I've found one Hammerhead to be very vulnerable to enemy fire. Two Broadsides might be less so. Besides which they look much more impressive IMO anyway, and fit with the Tau "mecha" theme better.

Curufew
11-12-2006, 13:57
For me, I use 2 Broadsides and 2 Railheads in a 1.5 k game.

The Broadsides got a better kill ratio due to their Twin-linked Railgun

jfrazell
11-12-2006, 13:59
Broadsides are targets of opportunity. They cannot hide and their armor won't cut it against anything I'd throw at them at range. Its brutally worse if somerthing gets into HTH with them.

Hammerheads are much more durable. Odds are it will take multiple strikes to take one down.

ion Kid
11-12-2006, 14:06
Hammerhead!! Hammerheads are easily one of the best tanks in the game. HUGE gun, solid armour, good movement etc (the list goes on).

In my normal list I use a Railhead (obvious) IonHead (controversial) and 2 B-ass. So in my opinion in the long run you can't really go wrong, the Tau heavy support section is very very solid. Not really going to mention sniper drones though....

Culven
11-12-2006, 14:10
I prefer the maneuverability and tactical flexability of the Hammerhead. However, with Advanced Sabilization Systems, the Braodsides' maneuverability has been increased. At this point, I think that a Hammerhead and a unit of Broadsides may be the best option. The Broadsides are much better as a static, anti-tank unit, and the Hammerhead could maneuver to engage tanks out of LOS of the Broadsides.

xibo
11-12-2006, 14:24
broadsides are more reliable while the hammerhead has - in theory - the possibility to shoot out loads of guardsmen/elves/tau/orcs/critter with a submunition hit...
Broadsides on the other side have a larger to-hit probability, more oblit-like stats, and each has smart missiles too, so you can alternate fire mode to anti-horde.

John Vaughan
11-12-2006, 14:41
Do the broadsides also have the 6" assault movement? If so, go with them, but give them plasma rifles, so that if they have to run, they can shoot at their persuers and move at the same time.

Tymell
11-12-2006, 18:04
Do the broadsides also have the 6" assault movement? If so, go with them, but give them plasma rifles, so that if they have to run, they can shoot at their persuers and move at the same time.

They don't get the extra 6' movement that Crisis suits get, no, if that's what you mean.

Sarge
11-12-2006, 22:41
But you're forgetting you have to be within 18-24" to use the smart missles. So unless you have balls of steel, and are willing to allow the enemy to get that close to your precious Broad Sides, than I suggest the Hammer head, nothing like carpet bombing a unit from 6ft away.

Tau Man
11-12-2006, 22:49
They don't get the extra 6' movement that Crisis suits get, no, if that's what you mean.

Well, even if they cant move the extra 6'', they can still shoot on the run. Anyways, I am often found running away, avoiding my opponent.:eyebrows:

Sarge
11-12-2006, 22:51
But that requires the A.S.S.

Sir_Lunchalot
11-12-2006, 23:27
Actually they can't. They still must be stationry to fire heavy weapons, unless you use the hard point to give them the slow and purposeful rule. on the other hand, they can use teh seeker missiles even while the enemy is out of LOS.

Dyrnwyn
12-12-2006, 01:09
Sarge, Sir Lunchalot, I think Tau Man is referring to Broadsides using Plasma as being able to shoot on the run, not Broadsides in general.

The Orange
12-12-2006, 02:13
He said he was facing Nids Orks and SM

Well I was pointing out orks and nids because obviously the sub-shot on the HH railgun is much more useful against those armies (plus the secondary weapon system), which were 2 of 3 armies that he listed. Plus he can always switch to the IonHead when facing marines. I love multi-shot weapons :p .

MrLiy
12-12-2006, 03:23
I like running 3 broadsides...two together and a lone wolf. This way I can set up on two different sides of the board and increase my chances of seeing enemy tanks. If I cant see them then then theyre hiding well enough to hamper their shooting. I kit both teams with shield drones as this is very essential. Splitting them up covers maneuverability, and shields makes them last longer.

Yes the pie plate is nice...but the SMS is no joke, and tau armies usually dont have a hard time dealing with light infantry. My firewarriors and stealth teams usually pump out soo many pulse shots that I dont have to worry about having a weapon for light infantry. Targeting Array suits with burst cannons are insane. Against marines more rail guns are nice since theyre almost guaranteed casualties. Those pie plates are so effective in this situation. Ionhead is good but 3 rail shots are better than 3 ions cause they'll kill just as many marines but can deal with marine armor too. So that would be one shot for the land raider, one shot for that whirlwind, and the last for that rhino sneaking off to your battleline. (Although admittedly running this is more points pricey)

Mr_Smiley
12-12-2006, 03:40
Up against the Nids and Orks the Hammerhead is a better choice for its submunitions however when up against SM you are better off with the Broadsides as their armour is too good for the submunition shots, though it can still be effective.
As I play Necrons I've learnt that broadsides are wonderful units of unstoppable fury, and a hammerhead is nothing more than a easy target.

Lancaster
12-12-2006, 03:54
A lot of people are saying go HH, then Broadside, however, judging by his photo, this guy is a Farsight Enclave, and don't they have some sort of rule limiting their heavy support choices?

neko
12-12-2006, 11:00
Yup. Hammerheads, Sky Rays, and Broadside teams all become 0-1.