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Dragon of the Pants
18-12-2006, 02:45
Help. Bolt throwers annihilate my army. More specifically they annihilate my Bloodthirster and Lord on dragon before they can get in to combat, ruining me. Is there any way for Khorne to protect itself from Bolt Throwers?

klinktastic
18-12-2006, 02:51
Hide behind terrain and use your hounds to kill the bolt throwers.

Eulogy2
18-12-2006, 02:59
i dont know much about chaos, but maybe dont take such easy targets and high point sinks?? a dragon with lord screams kill me from a distance.

Dragon of the Pants
18-12-2006, 03:13
I can hide behind terrain at the start, but then they just stay pinned down doing nothing. And how do I get hounds to the bolt throwers...they'd have to get to them first.

TKitch
18-12-2006, 03:32
Hounds are quick.

Push em across the board in a hurry. Bolt thrower crews tend to suck in combat so a unit of 6ish hounds will smoke em.

But, honestly, in most games giant targets like dragons and such have a huge bullseye on their chest.

Jhayden
18-12-2006, 03:34
But the good thing is that those huge models soak up all the focus of the ranged damage while the rest of your army marches to victory!


Earlier today I played against a Slaanesh chaos army and whipped him with my RBTs. 12 shots a turn are amazing when you're hitting on 3s.

Finnigan2004
18-12-2006, 04:23
Not sure of your army composition, but you might want to use lots of hounds and some chaos furies, if you have them. You'd need to field a daemonic herald or an exalted daemon of chaos undivided to get the furies, but they are cool for taking out missile troops. Depending on your modelling skills, juggernauts are relatively fast khorne troops too, and they hit really hard when they get where they're going (they can even legally lead a unit of flesh hounds if they carry an exalted daemon, and therefore pass on the benefits of their standard, gifts, etc). Try the daemonic legion for more ideas. Good luck, whichever method you pick.

Dragon of the Pants
18-12-2006, 04:24
Hounds aren't going to be able to fight through an entire army to get to the bolt throwers.

And without those models my army is severly crippled. not to mention the fact that the bolt throwers rip apart the rest of my army after it's done with the big guys.

Slaaneshi Slave
18-12-2006, 04:39
I play a Slaaneshi army, not Khorne, but its similar. If I were you I would take a Sorceror or two to give you something to fire back with at range. My Slaaneshi mages (which you can't take, obviously) love to Frenzy enemy war machine crews.

Slaaneshi Slave
18-12-2006, 04:40
Hounds aren't going to be able to fight through an entire army to get to the bolt throwers.

And without those models my army is severly crippled. not to mention the fact that the bolt throwers rip apart the rest of my army after it's done with the big guys.

My Daemonettes make it almost everytime. Just play carefully, and don't go rushing across the board first turn.

Frankly
18-12-2006, 05:47
Help. Bolt throwers annihilate my army. More specifically they annihilate my Bloodthirster and Lord on dragon before they can get in to combat, ruining me. Is there any way for Khorne to protect itself from Bolt Throwers?

Are you playing against dwarf B.throwers?

If so your playing against one of the most cost effective WM's in the game. Even against rank and file units they're worth thir points. But against Large targets they're Golden.

Bascially you have to creep around and wait until the other fast elements in your armylist have engaged the WM's. Flyers(furies) and hounds are your best bet.

OR

you can hide one behind the other and move into combat that way, but thats silly.

Armtlist construction in pretty important when using big creatures and points sinks, think before all the fast units in both BoC and HoC and how they can help you. Maybe beast herds might be handy.

505
18-12-2006, 06:09
But the good thing is that those huge models soak up all the focus of the ranged damage while the rest of your army marches to victory!


what rest of your army...the price of korn youd have 2 units of 5 :D

Braad
18-12-2006, 12:04
Someone's saying sorcerers in a khorne army?
Also, furies are not khorne, but undivided, so doesn't seem an option to me if you want the army truly khorne!

Well, I would say drop one of those huge beasties and take a daemon prince. Less points, no large target, but a very fast flyer. I don't know exactly what magic items and abilities khorne has, but give him ward saves if possible. Then use it to first wipe out that damn artillery, and than get him in the rear when your foot troops arrive.

Dragon of the Pants
18-12-2006, 14:01
It's Dark Elves Bolt Throwers actually. And he uses 6 in a 3000 point list. I guess I don't "truly" play Khorne because I use marauders and marauder horsemen, but they're not even Undivided, so think it's pretty close.

I don't use hounds though, maybe I should try them? I wouldn't really know how to use them though. And I could try replacing the Bloodthirster with a Daemon Prince maybe.

Braad
18-12-2006, 14:25
I think marauders fit perfectly in a khorne army, as long as those units that do have a choice in which god are all khorne.
Of course, in such a large army you can also take all of those characters, but then you have some pretty large point sinks. Especially dragons and greater daemons when playing against someone using lots of high strength shooters.
Try to add several bigger terrain features in the middle of the battlefield, to hide behind. That's your good right. It doesn't have to be an outstretched green meadow just because he wants to go shooty shooty...

But 6 reaper bolt throwers? Do I smell cheese somewhere?
You could of course ask him (if it's a friendly game) to swap two of them for perhaps a war hydra or so, that will give both more fun in playing.
I did the same with a friend of mine, who often fielded 4 reaper bolt throwers. He got himself a nice war hydra. Perhaps more deadly then the bolt throwers (they are good at biting orcs) but at least you get some true hackin' an' slashin'!

Dragon of the Pants
18-12-2006, 14:33
We're testing for a 3000 point tournament. And he's taking the 6 bolt throwers. And I'm not going to ask him to change because everybody I play with seems to think the Bloodthirster is unfair and invincible despite the fact that his saves suck.:p

I could try terrain, and if he says I'm unbalancing the game in my favour I'llt ell him open field unbalances it in his. :p

Shaitan
18-12-2006, 14:49
Just tell him 6 Reaper Bolt Throwers in a 3k army is not fun to play against.
Man! those Reapers can kill anything in one or two rounds.

Even if you don't field any big juicy targets (Bloodthirster / Dragon) you will have a very hard time dealing with them...

der_lex
18-12-2006, 14:54
fast units like hounds, furies and marauder horsemen with flails are your best bet. Or, if you have the points, get a Hellcannon and give him a taste of his own medicine.

Dragon of the Pants
18-12-2006, 17:25
I thought Storm of Chaos was like abandoned by GW. Can I still use a Hellcannon in a tournament?

EvC
18-12-2006, 18:04
We don't know, but the people who run the tournament will, so ask them.

Your only real option against 6 RBT is to take multiple units of furies, plus a bunch of other fast units. You can pretty much guarantee a charge with the furies against any of the Bolt Throwers (Unless they're very sneakily wedged in) by turn three, and then that leaves you three more turns to pull off some game-winning charges with the rest of your "army".

Selsaral
19-12-2006, 14:47
When I field big models like greater daemons and dragons they get decimated by high elf bolt throwers too. But it's funny, those high elf bolt throwers are half as effective as jezzails. Try fielding those big models against skaven, and be prepared to cry! There really is no defense against it. Tzeentch has the Golden Eye however which is one of the few ways to field a dragon against shooty armies.

I'd say shelve those big models and whip them out on armies that don't have such devastating shooting.

Your one big defense is that you cannot be fired upon while in melee. So get into a fight in the second turn and you might just have a chance! Field several large targets together and hope that at least one can survive a turn or two.

Angus
20-12-2006, 02:01
I play a Slaaneshi army, not Khorne, but its similar. If I were you I would take a Sorceror or two to give you something to fire back with at range. My Slaaneshi mages (which you can't take, obviously) love to Frenzy enemy war machine crews.

the fun thing with korne is that he hates magic and shooting, a korne army can't take any mages. (if you want to keep up with the consept of an ramy dedicated to korne, annyway) ;)

Dragon of the Pants
20-12-2006, 05:01
I feel dirty enough taking screamers.

Fideru
20-12-2006, 12:17
I feel dirty enough taking screamers.

You're facing a dude that plays 6 Bolt Throwers.

cookiescrumble
20-12-2006, 12:40
I think the answer to all your problems would be a couple of Beast herds. Cheap enough and Skirmishers.

scarletsquig
20-12-2006, 12:48
This thread should have been called "Khorne on the cob" ;)

Darmort
20-12-2006, 13:34
Now that doesn't really add anything, now does it? ;)

If you're Khorne, then get into Combat QUICKLY. If you want to beat those Dark Elves, then do it properly. In 3000 Points, you can easily get a Lord on Juggernaught (With Berserker Sword, Gaze of the Gods and Enchanted Shield, hinthint) in a unit of Chosen Knights, and then several more Exalted Champions on Juggernaughts in other Knight units. Hell, you could have two Lords like that...

You can take a charge easily, and if you give one, even better!

Dark Elf Warriors (hand weapon and shields for example) against Chosen Knights + Lord on Juggernaught with Beserker Sword take around 14-20 losses, if you're lucky.
Erm, 4 Chaos Knights, 4 Steeds, and then the Lord and the Juggernaught... 13+8+2+6+X Attacks.... that's a lot of attacks... make about two of those units, and to some degree, I don't think anything short of a battalion is going to be able to stop you... or incredible luck...

And yes, I am adverse to that kind of unit, but sometimes, people just deserve it.

Finnigan2004
20-12-2006, 13:58
You could also go pure daemonic legion. You'd get a 5+ ward true save on everything in your army and get +1 to leadership for everything as well. If you did this, you could put your daemonic herald on a juggernaut with a unit of, say, 10 flesh hounds. That would give you a unit of unit strength 20, fear causing, magic resistance 2, two attack, ws 5 fast cav (for sixteen points each). With the herald, they'd even have a banner, which could allow you to reroll instability saves and have a 4+ ward save for the unit. The herald would also get one khorne gift of up to 25 points (I like might of khorne or spell breaker, but you could use whatever you like). In a pure daemonic legion, it's a unit that's easy to support with big, ugly, daemonic flyers. If you use some undivided, you could take Belakor, and every unit in your army would have -1 to be hit by missile fire (you'd get furies too. if you took him!).

Dragon of the Pants
20-12-2006, 14:03
Heh, I'm not going to be changing my whole army. I'm trying to figure out a list that will be ready for anything at this 3000 Point tournament.

I know I;ll be facing 6 bolt throwers. And a Brettonian Flying Circus. v.v


And as for getting in to combat quickly, we play on a pool table. My lord on Dragon AND my Bloodthirster were dead before they got there. I don't think knights would make it. (I do use knights, and they didn't)

Darmort
20-12-2006, 14:47
Play on a 4*6 board, and play from side to side, not end to end, otherwise any shooting army is going to have a severe advantage over combat oriented ones... that's if you can get a 4*6 board...

Angus
20-12-2006, 19:17
some beast herds would be good, with a wargor or somthing and just send them up the flank and at the bolt throwers. a unit like that might be able to have a go at all the DE flank units. And if he shoots at them with all his bolt throwers Great!! that will leave your sexy little korne girls out from harms way...

vampires are cool!
21-12-2006, 16:27
My Daemonettes make it almost everytime. Just play carefully, and don't go rushing across the board first turn.

but thats the fun!!!!!
if your having problems with the lord and thirster then how big is your bord? and how many bolt throwers does he have? if you want a characterful answer then direct them both at the same unit - the bolt throwers and if they die then its a lose but you held your integrity.
if you want a useful answer then get a hell cannon... and watch him cry

gjnoronh
21-12-2006, 16:38
I ran a thirster at my last tournament the key as noted is to use the terrain, and spend your first turn out in the open moving to his flank.

At that point you should have a choice of most of his army as viable targets. In many cases you can set it up so you kill a unit, and over run into another target. As long as you are stuck in those bolt throwers can't target you.

Flesh hounds, and marauder cavalry are your best options as a khorne player to knock out warmachines. Centigors, and beast herds are alternates.

The flesh hounds ahve the daemonic save and along with marauders have fast cava abilities (use the fast cav to prevent you from being drawn into charges before you get into the warmachines.) Usually by turn two-three I'm able to start knocking out warmachines with the flesh hounds.

Come on over to swords of chaos on yahoo groups for some excellent chaos advice

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SwordsofChaos/?yguid=113553255

Gary

Jubei
21-12-2006, 22:40
I hate to ask, but how big is this pool table you're playing on? A BT gets a 20" flight move, and a tournament gaming table is only 48" wide. That means you should be able to charge something on turn 2 at the latest. If you're playing on a wider table, then your opponent has a big advantage.

Also, do you have any treebases around? That's one of the few things that the 'Thirster is guaranteed to be able to hide behind. Divide up the terrain that you have available, then take turns placing it. That way, it's more fair to each of you.

Dragon of the Pants
22-12-2006, 05:25
Ummm, I usually don't get charges with my BT and Dragon until turn 3-4. It's a long table...

warlord hack'a
22-12-2006, 09:43
I can not believe this.. The table is bigger than 6*4 feet? Then make it this size bysetting boundsaries, you do not need to use the whole table. Tables shoudl be fixed sizes as indeed they influence the game. He soulhd me able to put his boltthrowers maximum 24"(the distance of open field between your two deployment zones) + 12" (the depth of his deployment zone) - the depth of his bolt thrower unit = 36"- 3=33 inch from your deployment line. SO you can chrage the bolt thrower in turn 2. That gives him one round of shooting max if you start hidden behind terrain (which you should at all times). But do not charge his BT, charge other units as mentioend earlier and stay in combat that way..

Dragon of the Pants
22-12-2006, 14:12
Yeah. that's what I tried to do. But I never made it into combat. I made it within a few inches, but I was short on the charge, so I just moved and used the dragons breath weapon. Then he died.

TheWarSmith
22-12-2006, 14:31
if you're not charging till turn 3-4 you're either making lots of lateral movement or the table is WAY too long. normally there's only 24" between you and the enemy at the very beginning of turn one(if both of you deployed 12" in.

3-4 turns means that you've playing on a 6 foot+ board.

warlord hack'a
22-12-2006, 14:42
and even TheWarSmiths doomwheel takes a long time to cross that distance! ;-)

Dragon of the Pants
22-12-2006, 17:22
Yeah, I could measure it, but I believe last time I checked my hellcannon couldn't hit stuff right up against the back side of the table without scattering forward extra inches. ><