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giner
23-12-2006, 12:34
Which tank/vehicle do you think is best point for point in 40k?

I would have to go with the DE raider because it can drop off nasty CC troops right in front of you who can assault without the chance to be shot down. It also provides decent anti tank and is pretty cheap.

WindSoul
23-12-2006, 12:36
And can be (and will be) shot down by bolters.

I say, Leman Russ Battle Tank. Nasty piece of vehicle.

Baneboss
23-12-2006, 12:37
DE raider isnt a tank.

Best tank - Griffon.
Best vehicle - Griffon.

inq.serge
23-12-2006, 12:38
BaneBlade Battletank + sisters and brothers.

schoolcormorant
23-12-2006, 12:47
on the same tack as the griffon, i say Basilisk, for 100 points you get HB and a nasty gun that can do some serious damage. with the chance to add all manner of upgrades
SC

Steel_Legion
23-12-2006, 13:00
Leman Russ, costs nearly 200points, but its rock hard, has an S8 marine killer and a possible 9 heavy bolter shots too

GloomyGrim
23-12-2006, 13:01
the eldar falcon. Not only it transports cargo, but it can have an array of nasty weapons plus it is very difficult to take down without huge amounts of luck or firepower...

Luke
23-12-2006, 13:03
Best tank - griffon. 80 points is it? A very cheap indirect strength 6 ap 4 pie plate with armour. Plus it looks the nads.

My griff
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/nsrdude/Imperial%20guard/DSC00576.jpg

athamas
23-12-2006, 13:09
Hammerhead is also up there...


it can multitask like no other, still move 12" and fire all its guns and target seperate things...

Scythe
23-12-2006, 13:25
Leman Russ, costs nearly 200points, but its rock hard, has an S8 marine killer and a possible 9 heavy bolter shots too

What leman russ are you talking about? A standard Russ with 3x heavy bolter is a mere 155 points. ;)

As far as you would call them battletanks, Hammerheads are pretty good in my opinion. Very flexible, and hard to kill. Same is true for Eldar Prisms and Falcons. Though standard IG Griffons and Leman Russes are very good choices too.

Goq Gar
23-12-2006, 13:28
battle wagon, definetly <_<

Carries up to 20 models, AND can fire 15 big shoota shots a turn. Not to mention the ZZap gun :P

Chaos and Evil
23-12-2006, 13:32
It has to be a Griffon Upgrades with Infernus shells.

You can force enemy squads (Even Fearless ones!) to retreat off the table on turn 1!

D.soul
23-12-2006, 13:33
Definetly Monolith.

stompzilla
23-12-2006, 13:33
Fire prism, it does everything the HH can do but is faster and harder to kill.

Steel_Legion
23-12-2006, 13:35
well mine can come to 180ish with lascannon and some upgrades (Smoke, extra armour, rough terrain modifications if you need em etc) just was giving an estimate as you can give exact point costs
As for griffons, i really dont see whats so great, its a heavy mortar for cheap yeah, but it lacks real kick, and i dont think you can even give them infernus shells any more, isnt that only in IA1 under "fun rules that you dont have to use" along with the conqueror shell that reduces armour as it cracks it?

Scythe
23-12-2006, 13:44
No, infernus shells are in IA3, as a standard option for Griffons, along with smoke, and several others. You won't make much friends by using them though...;)

The Laughing God
23-12-2006, 13:44
Great Question,
I would say the Monolith since I play necrons. It's powerful and helps a lot taking on the roll of a transport, by teleporting warriors through it. And it's so fun to see your opponents face when you deepstrike it right in front of their infanty.:evilgrin:

Mortare
23-12-2006, 13:57
Predator. Nice selection of variants, tho im a supporter of the baal with heavy bolters- the sheer amount of dice you get can seriously dent most units

ss_cherubael
23-12-2006, 14:04
Leman Russ mbt. Give it a hull lascannon or hull hb's and sponson heavy bolters and watch it rip anything to bits the battle cannon also makes short work of meq's. and at about 150pts they easily make their pts back and take three and watch em go for gold!

Ixe
23-12-2006, 14:13
I don't think forgeworld tanks should compete for the best tank... Forgeworld mostly just puts out great models with garbage rules.

As for the "best" tank, it all depends on what you mean by best. The SoB Exorcist is one of the best offensive tanks in the game with D6 S8 AP1 shots. Nothing else (short of FW) can put out as much high S firepower.

In terms of durability, that has to go to the Falcon/Fire Prism. The Monolith is close, but only for armies that don't have much S9/10 firepower. Against Tau the monolith is trash, while the same is not true for the Falcon.

In terms of cheapness and versatility... Hello, who's that at the door? Oh, it's mr. landspeeder. Costs barely more than a sentinel, but it skims and has an asscannon. And isn't open topped. Yep.

I don't think your ordnance tanks are in the running. Ordnance is powerful, but it's too unreliable to qualify a tank as "best."

Luke
23-12-2006, 14:35
What FW tanks? The griffon? Nope, It was in 3rd edition IG codex with the exact same stats.

Steel_Legion
23-12-2006, 14:39
Emperor Class Titan! Nah jsut kidding... i think the humble Rhino should get a mention here, 50points and does exactly what it says on the tin, can even repair itself! One of the better APCs in the game, there is no hesitation as to if you should move 6" and shoot a weapon or 12" and not, cause me thinks 1 storm bolter is not going to alter the battle too much... :D

The Keeper of Secrets
23-12-2006, 14:40
Great Question,
I would say the Monolith since I play necrons. It's powerful and helps a lot taking on the roll of a transport, by teleporting warriors through it. And it's so fun to see your opponents face when you deepstrike it right in front of their infanty.:evilgrin:

Oh yeah, my friend was using my necron army against my chaos. He did this and it was killed straight away by a twn lascannon:D.

Saying that I have seen one wioe out 3 or 4 times it's points cost, and it is one of the best vehicles in the game, even at 250-something points:eek:

Chaos and Evil
23-12-2006, 14:43
When a Griffon forces 30 Khorne Berzerkers to retreat off the table edge on turn 1 because it hit them with an Infernus shell... it's the best tank. :)

Latro_
23-12-2006, 14:44
falcon, nuff said

Ixe
23-12-2006, 15:30
What FW tanks? The griffon? Nope, It was in 3rd edition IG codex with the exact same stats.

I believe there was mention of a baneblade made above. You win, sir!

suplicor
23-12-2006, 15:37
I don't know if it's classified as a tank,but I think the Monolith is one of the best.It's damn hard to kill,nasty weapons,and spits Necrons out at you!

athamas
23-12-2006, 15:45
yes, but its slow, alot of points and can only e used in big battles...

a HH, for 170 pts can fire its main gun, whilst moving 12" and also fire its secondary guns [6 S5 shots] at a sepparet target, its kinda worth it esp considering you can have 3 of these beasts for only 510 points...

EvilMonkey
23-12-2006, 16:31
The best tank in my experience has to be the Leman Russ, just the basic tank with Heavy Bolters.

If it was vehicles, i'd have to vote for the Marauder destroyer. I have seen one of them take a whole army on.

hiveminion
23-12-2006, 16:58
Ork buggy, best target practise tank out there:p

On a more serious note, I think Monolith. It is the most powerful addition to a Necron army, not only inpregnable, but also able to teleport units out of harm's way. Heck, it's even cheaper than a Land Raider!

infernus31
23-12-2006, 17:54
I think personally got to be either the Leman Russ Demolisher or the Hellhound both valuable tanks and have been excellent in my past experiences

WhatsHisName
23-12-2006, 18:03
troop transport:
1 waveserpent
2 dark eldar raider
3 devilfish

battle tank
1 monilith
2 falcon
3 demolisher battle tank/ extercist

overall
1 monilth
2 falcon
3 waveserpent

martin

Pavulon
23-12-2006, 18:09
troop transport:
1 waveserpent
2 dark eldar raider
3 devilfish

battle tank
1 monilith
2 falcon
3 demolisher battle tank/ extercist

overall
1 monilth
2 falcon
3 waveserpent

martin

Pretty much agree here, except that I would add

best anti-tank tank
D. Possessed Tri-las pred for CSM

ZigZagMan
23-12-2006, 18:24
troop transport:
1 waveserpent
2 dark eldar raider
3 devilfish

battle tank
1 monilith
2 falcon
3 demolisher battle tank/ extercist

overall
1 monilth
2 falcon
3 waveserpent

martin

I would have to put the Battlewagon as the best transport, nothing else in the game can carry 20 models, 11 of them with 2+ saves and 2 or more wounds if ya want. It also carries arguably the 2nd best antitank weapon in the game, the Zzap gun, has great front, and side armor WITH a 6+ inv save, can be upgraded to move faster, can upgrade to repair itself of imobilization on a 4+ not a 6+, can upgrade to not count as open-topped when rolling for damage, and yet still be able to be assaulted out of. Can carry 7 assualt 3 str 5 36" weapons two of which are TL. And can have a model inside that ALWAYS makes it count as in cover.

I would put it #1 in transport, #3 in battle tank, and #3 overall

Goq Gar
23-12-2006, 18:27
I would have to put the Battlewagon as the best transport, nothing else in the game can carry 20 models, 11 of them with 2+ saves and 2 or more wounds if ya want. It also carries arguably the 2nd best antitank weapon in the game, the Zzap gun, has great front, and side armor WITH a 6+ inv save, can be upgraded to move faster, not count as open-topped when roling for damage, and yet still be able to be assaulted out of. Can carry 7 assualt 3 str 5 36" weapons two of which can be TL. And can have a model inside that ALWAYS makes it count as in cover.

I would put it #1 in transport, #3 in battle tank, and #3 overall

You speak wisely, and I agree.

Oh, right, WAAAGH!

Greatoliver
23-12-2006, 20:50
Hmm...I agree that the Battlewagon is good but it is Open Topped plus it's BS isn't too good...

It's a hidden gem, not a hidden diamond!

stompzilla
23-12-2006, 20:54
HH! IS definately no 2. Railgun will annihalate that Russ, It's harder to kill, moves faster, is more versatile and can engage 2 targets at once + it doesn't even need to see one of them! I've taken out 2 tanks in 1 turn with a single HH before now.

My list:
Fire prism,
Hammerhead,
Predator.

SwordsofChaos
23-12-2006, 21:04
I&#180;d say the Monolith goes for best, the bloody thing can devastate armies and teleport an army of necrons when it has killed half your army. But of course, as all vehicles its armor is made of paper.
Oh, and to the guy who said it&#180;s weak against armies with many str9-10 guns, tell me what isn&#180;t!

insectum7
23-12-2006, 21:05
When a Griffon forces 30 Khorne Berzerkers to retreat off the table edge on turn 1 because it hit them with an Infernus shell... it's the best tank. :)

I'm gonna call you on that one, Berzerkers are fearless, so they don't run. In fact, I think they only come is squads of 20...


troop transport:
1 waveserpent
2 dark eldar raider
3 devilfish

battle tank
1 monilith
2 falcon
3 demolisher battle tank/ extercist

overall
1 monilth
2 falcon
3 waveserpent

martin

You for got that the Monolith s also the best "transport" in the game, hands down. The Deep Strike plus the ability to teleport friendly units around (without the risk of losing guys in transit) makes it a superior transport. Though to be fair, the Drop Pod is also a good transport.

Greatoliver
23-12-2006, 21:08
Hammerhead all the way - a very versatile tank.

Fire Prism? Pah! It's an underpowered Hammerhead.
Leman Russ? Huh! Hit 66% of the time with your main gun!

Yup, give me a Hammerhead all the time! :D

(Now boys & girls, is Greatoliver, the sacred god-boy, telling the straight truth or is he just the teensy little bit biased? ;) )

Arch-Traitor Horus
23-12-2006, 21:13
there is no best tank, every tank is designed to do something different.
but seeings as this is best tank i would have to say DE ravanger 3 dark lances or disintergators what else would you want?

stompzilla
23-12-2006, 21:14
Slightly underpowered but is faster, cheaper and more survivable and has the potential for the bank shot. + S9 AP2 blast does far more damage to a squad of termies/oblits than a single solid shot.

I love HHs but my vote still goes to the fire prism.

Laughingmonk
23-12-2006, 23:39
I would think It's a toss up between the fireprism, Hammerhead, and Monolith.

They all have their strengths that make them an almost No-Brainer in the army list.

They can all are/ can be made to be abdurdly resilient, which is the main reason many players shy away from vehicles. They all have insane firepower, are skimmers and therefore very hard to kill in assault, and the HH(with upgrades) and the fireprism can both move 12" and shoot to full effect, taking full advantage of vehicle capabilities.

I personally would lean towards the monolith, merely because of intimidation factor. Oh look, a deep-striking floating land raider with star-trek transporters and an ap3 pie plate, the "living metal" special rule, the ability to transport your troops out of assault AND RESSURECT THEM.... it just does so many things for the necron army it's absurd.

They've already gone over the Hammerhead. Nothing says pain like markerlighted railgun/ion cannon.

The fireprism definitely gets the "most headache-causing tank" category win, since it's the fastest tank in the game (with star engines 36" movement? yes please! may not sound like much, but it's really funny to in one turn go out of range of a lascannon.) can take the absurd holofield upgrade, and it is impossible to hide from (since it'll just come and find you. Easily.), unlike the leman russ or land raider. The thing is just a massive headache to deal with.

Greatoliver
23-12-2006, 23:59
I got a great idea! I'll roll a die!

1,2 = Fire Prism
3,4 = Hammerhead
5,6 = Monolith

...It was a 3! Hammerhead is the best tank!

marv335
24-12-2006, 00:02
this old chestnut again?
search is your friend.
i suspect the falcon will win again. it usually does.

Greatoliver
24-12-2006, 00:04
this old chestnut again?
search is your friend.
i suspect the falcon will win again. it usually does.

Take a look at my most recent minus one reply - the Hammerhead won...;)

Commisar Dincher
24-12-2006, 00:39
The land raider, i use a looted land raider in my ork army it never fails to deliver troops,(unless i role a 1 for the looted vehicles test which wouldnt happen to a normal land raider), twin linked las cannons that hit on a 3 (5 for looted) and almost inpenetratable armour, plus troops can assault out of it as soon as they are in range. you get your points worth.

Corax
24-12-2006, 09:58
This whole argument seems to have become rather blurred. The problem is that we have not even worked out what we are defining as a 'tank'. Is it anything with Armour Values? Or does it not include things was a transport capacity? Are skimmers to be considered with the rest, because their speed and HtH advantages place them well ahead of the others?

Secondly, what criteria are we basing this on? Points cost? Resiliance? Firepower? Speed? Upgrades? Force Org chart slots?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of investing a lot of points in one model, especially in 4th ed., where vehicles are so vulnerable. I like the ones that are cheap, disposable and either come in squadrons or don't take up Force Org chart slots. Then again, I play Raven Guard, and the only things with AV in my army are Land Speeders and a Dreadnought!

I don't think there is any 'best' 'tank'. There are, however, best examples of particular attributes (IMHO).

Best Fast Vehicle: Vyper - Cheap, mobile, & access to Eldar upgrades.
Like a Honda CBR, its all about speed. If going fast (while still being able to actually do something when you get there) is your deal, then this baby is for you. Unfortunately, like a CBR, it seems to be mostly made of aluminium and firbeglass and does not react well to bolt shells.

Best Firepower: Hammerhead - Railgun + Markerlight FTW.
Armed with probably the scariest gun in all of 40k, the Hammerhead can hurl hyper velocity slugs right accross the table. With the assistance of Pathfinders with Markerlights, the BS of 3 is not even much of a handicap! It's kind of like a Ferrari. Power and precision. Pity it looks like a Ford Taurus...

Best Resiliance: Monolith - Living Metal. 'nuff said.
Whoever designed this must have been on crack at the time. To continue my vehicular analogy, this is the GM Hummer of 40k. Big, tough, and slow. It won't get you there quickly, but it will get you there. The big downside is that like a Hummer, its fuel economy is lousy, getting a poxy 250pts a model. Not cheap, but its a luxury ride...

Best Transport: Wave Serpert - Most likely to get your squad there alive.
The Volvo of the 40k universe. Not much to look at, but if you want your passengers to make it to their destination with their cardigans and pocket protectors intact, this is the one for you. Decent armour, good speed, the force field thing and capacity of 10 make this a top all rounder for the large family. Solid, but just not cool.

Best Upgrades: Eldar - Holofield, Vectored Engines, etc., etc.
If we can say nothing else for the Swe- Er... Eldar, it's that they have the best upgrades in the business; Holofield, Vectored engines, Sat. Nav., Spirit Stones, metallic paint, etc. The optional extras from the Eldar dealership are second to none, however they will make sizable dent in your wallet. Pricy, buy often well worth the investment.

Best Value: Razorback - Cheap, versatile, disposable. The VW of 40k.
Like a VW, its been around forever, they're a dime a dozen, and they were designed under the rule of a fascist regime (Coincidence? I think not!). The Razorback is cheap, carries six models and if it makes it to the destination more or less intact, it can add a bit of fire support, or act as a standalone vehicle. The splitfold rear seats, lift back, and cup holders also make it useful for weekends away.

Anyway, that's my take on the whole 'best tank' debate, but don't take it seriously whatever you do... :angel:

inq.serge
24-12-2006, 10:15
NO, Baneblade is best.

Move 6 + shoot ALL weapons, so she shoots both the mega battlecannon AND the demolisher AND the 3 twinlinked Hbolters AND the 2 lascannons AND the autogun AND whatever extra she has.

And no thank is a mach for her brother "Shadowsword", One hit boom!
And no swarm is a challange for her sister "Stormhammer" (No official rules yet) who has 2 twin-demolishers, 4 twin-Hbolters and 4 lascannons.

Go giant tanks!

Reflex
24-12-2006, 10:33
ok best firepower tank corax, should be split into 2 sections. anti tank and anti infantry.

the hammer head is easily the best anti tank along with the fire prism. they are both skimmers, have a good BS. have high strength main gun and can with stand a bit of fire power themselves.

now easily the best anti infantry tank is the leman russ. 3 heavy bolters and a battle cannon. nasty. it can take down every thing up to a 3+ save with ease. it can take a heck of a beating and it has low point cost for what it can do.

Elcampbello
24-12-2006, 11:07
Hammerhead is the best simply becasue it come half way between the survieability of a Leman Russ and the manovarbilty of the Wave Serpent for less points than both.

WhatsHisName
24-12-2006, 11:24
I would have to put the Battlewagon as the best transport, nothing else in the game can carry 20 models, 11 of them with 2+ saves and 2 or more wounds if ya want. It also carries arguably the 2nd best antitank weapon in the game, the Zzap gun, has great front, and side armor WITH a 6+ inv save, can be upgraded to move faster, can upgrade to repair itself of imobilization on a 4+ not a 6+, can upgrade to not count as open-topped when rolling for damage, and yet still be able to be assaulted out of. Can carry 7 assualt 3 str 5 36" weapons two of which are TL. And can have a model inside that ALWAYS makes it count as in cover.

I would put it #1 in transport, #3 in battle tank, and #3 overall

yer but the battle wagon isnt a transport option is it. i think it is a heavy suport choice that can transport troops rather than a TROOP transport that can only transport the squad they are bought for. this is the same for the NECRON MONILITH , but not like the space marine landraider as can be purchased as a troop transport or as a heavy support.

martin

ps even if it is a troop transport i still dont think it is the best as is VER expensive , waveserpent and day!!!

Scythe
24-12-2006, 14:18
I would have to put the Battlewagon as the best transport, nothing else in the game can carry 20 models,

....

Guess you never saw the gorgon?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/gorgon1.htm

Carries up to 50 troopers. :D


NO, Baneblade is best.

Move 6 + shoot ALL weapons, so she shoots both the mega battlecannon AND the demolisher AND the 3 twinlinked Hbolters AND the 2 lascannons AND the autogun AND whatever extra she has.

And no thank is a mach for her brother "Shadowsword", One hit boom!
And no swarm is a challange for her sister "Stormhammer" (No official rules yet) who has 2 twin-demolishers, 4 twin-Hbolters and 4 lascannons.

Go giant tanks!

Put a combination of 3-4 Leman Russ tanks (think Vanquishers or Laser Destroyers), Hammerheads or Fire Prisms against those super heavies for about the same amount of points, and they go down.

inq.serge
24-12-2006, 14:33
But a single leman has no chance.

Scythe
24-12-2006, 14:59
That's why a single leman russ is only a fraction of the points of a Baneblade. If you go down that road without looking at points values, you could just as well throw in a Manta or Emperor Titan. Those things eat Baneblades for breakfast (although they are not directly tanks, but vehicles nontheless. For tanks, a Scorpion or Cobra has a good chance of giving a Baneblade some kicking).

Killgore
24-12-2006, 15:02
Fire Prism

it is faster and can outrange almost any other 40k tank