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Steel_Legion
23-12-2006, 16:25
Well i was playing around with dwarf lists today, as you do when you are bored out your nut, and I have came to the conclusion, for a Dwarf army, there are simply not enough Special Slots to go around, you have so many pretty things avaliable, but you can only get so few! Take my Dwarf Force as it stands to date, Special slot wise i have:
2 Units of Iron Breakers
1 Bolt Thrower
1 Cannon
1 Grudge Thrower
1 Unit of Slayers
And soon i shall get some Hammerers to go alongside King Thorgrim and thats another Special, I will get another cannon from BFSP (albiet ugly) and some Miner too! (I will need 8,000points before i can field the above!)
Anyone else find that there is just not enough space for certain armys for all those pretty units your heart desires? Rare is not so much a problem I find, Organ gun, Flame Cannon or Gyrocopter, and if you take 2 of each you can say goodbye to anyone who might play you... Beardy!
Anyone else think the same?

EvilMonkey
23-12-2006, 16:32
I have had this when writing out some orc lists. In 2000pts i want to take at least 6 special choices worth. But i suppose thats why these limits are here.

Rivlo
23-12-2006, 16:47
P'raps thats exactly why there are only a certain amount of special slots. It limits you so that you don't take 3 cannons, a grudge thrower, 2 boltthrowers, Hammerers, IronBreakers, and Slayers all in one army!

Oh and...

Not enuff slots, needs more slots.

Dosadi
23-12-2006, 16:49
Well, first I don't think you can take the grudge thrower in the new dwarf list. This is a good thing 'cause the Grudge Thrower is a soulless bit of kit that never should have existed in the first place.
Second, do you really need 2 units of Iron Breakers in 2000pts.? You have so many good Core units for the dwarfs. Sure the armour save is nice, but for the cost you can get some really good core units. Save the second unit of Iron Breakers for larger games. I do this with my two units of black orcs. I field one in 2000 and then when I play bigger games I break out the second unit.
In 2000 point games you have to make sacrifices. My orc army is spoiled for good special choices, but I know that I won't bea able to file them all in 2000 points. But when my friends and I get togeather and throw down with the 8000 point games I can put all that good stuff in.

Dosadi

sparks
23-12-2006, 16:54
The grudge thrower is just a stone thrower isn't it? Do you have the Goblin Hewer in mind Dosadi?

Bingo the Fun Monkey
23-12-2006, 17:43
He had this old marauder mini in mind. It hurled Goblins, iirc.

Steel_Legion
23-12-2006, 17:54
Well i say 2 units of Iron Breakers, i have a unit of 18 inc command, and a command unit, so i could field 2, i just dont bother usually, and as for cannons, i think 1 will be enough unless i really need a second, as the BFSP is pretty horrible. But Hammerers, Miners, Ironbreakers! All so fun! Oh well, i agree, it is there for a reason, but I will just have to rearrange the list a little to accomodate them

Mephistofeles
23-12-2006, 18:36
Seriously, I have never felt that 4 special slots was too few?

But then again, as you say, Dwarves have a lot of really cool special units, Empire does not. Cannons and Mortars and Greatswords, and then what, inner circle knights? Well well...

I see your problem, but that also shows that the limitations are there for good reason. I like it the way it is, although it might get a bit frustrating I can understand that...

DarkTerror
23-12-2006, 18:54
Seriously, I have never felt that 4 special slots was too few?

But then again, as you say, Dwarves have a lot of really cool special units, Empire does not. Cannons and Mortars and Greatswords, and then what, inner circle knights? Well well...

I see your problem, but that also shows that the limitations are there for good reason. I like it the way it is, although it might get a bit frustrating I can understand that...

Empire has a special slot shortage too!

Knights otic, greatswords, cannons, mortars, pistoliers, outriders... I've got one or more of each. 4 cuts me short very often.

Dosadi
23-12-2006, 19:38
My bad...I thought he was refering to the Goblin Hewer...teach me not to open my SoC for refrence. That thing is gross...'nuff said.
So the general consensus seems to be that we all wish we had more special slots. I can get by with 4 but man, I wish I could squeeze in a another pair of spear chukkas. Atleast they didn't take something from your list that was formarly 2 for 1 and make it a single special choice (wolf chariots).

Dosadi

Crazy Harborc
23-12-2006, 19:49
Well, got any friends who are players/opponents?? Talk it over with him/her/them. Agree to raise the limit of special slots for a "what the heck" game or two or more. Why not an "army" composed of specials?

You might even get to do it in a GW store (It could encourage watchers to buy some special minies)

Steel_Legion
23-12-2006, 20:10
Well if i can persuade him to have a 3000point game "No limits" because then i can get away with fielding the whole throng, though i think it lacks r'n'f, only 3 real units (warriors, longbeards and Ironbreakers) 2 shooty units (20thunderers, 12 bows) and 4 warmachines, and King Thorgrim and the other heroes i have, good idea, thanks

Tutore
23-12-2006, 20:23
I never use all special slots for my HE army. I feel however limited by the special slots of my new Orcs and Goblins army. The goblin chariot counting as a single slot...sigh

Crazy Harborc
23-12-2006, 21:30
As long as an opponent is aware of what's coming.......go for it.;)

I am thinking about something like your idea for next week. Got three longtime opponents with a week off between the holidays.

The one trouble with not gaming against retired old farts is they seem to think work should be done during the parts of the day that are perfect for gaming....well, for me anyway.:D :p

Allarion
23-12-2006, 21:45
I.... think that you should be able to use your rare choices for special slots if you want

Ursca
23-12-2006, 21:47
I need more special slots too. As a Beastman player, I can choose from 4 core choices, 3 or so rare units and 18(!) special units.
I want to have my cake and eat it, thankyouverymuch.

EvC
23-12-2006, 22:07
Wow, you win the prize Ursca (Assuming there is one)!

I myself have five possible Special choices for my 2000 point High Elf army (Although admittedly that's not through my "poor planning" but because I won an amazing eBay offer this last week for 20 that came with 15 Swordmasters, unadvertised, on top of what it was in the auction!), but only three in 2000 points of Vampire Counts. But I think an army made up mostly of Wights (Half the special choices) would be extremely powerful!

Ursca
23-12-2006, 22:13
I meant in army book choices, but I've still got too many. ;)

m1s1n
23-12-2006, 23:01
I don't get it--why does this seem to be a problem?

The game is designed to restrict your choices, why would you want to create a system that has no limitations? The restrictions put in place by the designers make the game what it is...

Farp
23-12-2006, 23:23
I too wish that I had more slots for special. I never seem able to fit my miners in my dwarf force.

EvC
24-12-2006, 00:14
Well, it seems GW must think there aren't enough special slots as well, given that the 500 point force you get with BfSP comes with two core and two special units... scaled up to 2000 points that'd be 8 special slots used!

Hywel
24-12-2006, 00:19
With my armies its never really struck me as a problem... For Empire it's essentially artillery limitation and my other army is chaos which, as we're all aware, is a bit silly on the old army structure! ;)

Scythe
24-12-2006, 15:15
I feel it for my Dark Elves. Executioners and Witch Elves are pretty effective in multiple units of 10-14 models supporting blocks of warriors, but then they all take up special slots. And that's beside the Shades I always field, the Chariots I sometimes take, and the Knights I might roll out on special occassions.

But then, the restrictions are there for good reasons, so I work with what I have. ;)

Crazy Harborc
24-12-2006, 17:31
I don't get it--why does this seem to be a problem?

The game is designed to restrict your choices, why would you want to create a system that has no limitations? The restrictions put in place by the designers make the game what it is...

Yes and well said. Should be done by the book....normally.

On the other side of the coin.....for a once in a great while game amongst friends.......One or both armies could use all specials, a different mix.....just for laughs;)

_toast_
24-12-2006, 17:43
the reason that GW even has special slots is because of dwarfs. With my Wood Elf army, i have had over 60% of my army killed on the first turn, just because the other player spammed out on cannons, bolt throwers, a flame cannon, and thunderers.

Hobgoblyn
24-12-2006, 18:24
It seems more like GW needs to break down their options a bit more. 3 Special Unit slots is too much for 500pts meanwhile it might not be enough for 2000. It would likely be better to make it 1 for every 500 pts or, perhaps, go back to the percentage-based system and say that no more than 50% of your army's points can be spent on Special Units.

eleveninches
24-12-2006, 20:55
If dwarves had more than 4 special slots, it would make them far too overpowered. I use most of my infantry as warrirors and a few grudgethrowers and one unit of slayers.

But you can still hav powerful infantry from the troops section and powerful artillary from the rare section, so 4 special slots is really more than enough (otherwise it would be far too unbalanced)

zak
25-12-2006, 11:46
Please, no going back to the old 50% system, where core units were not existant and Herohammer ruled the day. The current system is fine for a normal game, but as said, if you want to bend the rules for a one-off game then fine.

Crazy Harborc
26-12-2006, 19:53
This Thursday, a longtime opponent and I are doing a no limits on Specials 2500 point game. It should be fun. I am finally going to get to do my Orc, Boar Chariots charge:D Five or six across, those puny Elves will be flappin their pointy ears in fear!!:evilgrin: It's ALL the fault of this thread.

Krankenstein
27-12-2006, 08:41
I play Bretonnia, and I never have a problem with to few special slots. Or rare slots for that matter. Small wonder, as the Bretonnia army list is kind of limited, but with excellent core troops.

Lack of slots is probably a very army specific thing.

Multifarious
27-12-2006, 09:35
I personally would love it if you could use Rare choices as special choices, or if they redid it like heroes and lords, but special and rare. Meh, what do I know?

As for the goblin chariot thing, try mounting some heroes on them.

Zilverug
28-12-2006, 12:20
My first army was Dogs of War since I like all those different races in a single army (a bit of everything). Since even a simple unit of Dwarf crossbowmen already takes a special slot in such an army, I always had a shortage of special slots as well...