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View Full Version : 2,000pts VC NECRARCH heavy magic!!!!



klastica
23-12-2006, 22:58
Vampire Count Lvl 2
Dark Acolyte - giving one more power dice
Master of Black art - extra 6 inches range to spells
Forbidden lore - one more spell
Staff of damnation - hellish vigour bound spell
Points 340

Necromancer Lvl 2
Rod of flaming death
Points 150

Necromancer Lvl 2
Power familiar - one dice for power and dispel dice
Points 150

Necromancer Lvl 2
Dispel scroll and Book of Arkhan
Points 150

15 Skeletons F/C spears
Points 190

20 Zomibies banner
Points 130

20 Zombies banner
Points 130

15 Zombies banner
Points 100

5 ghouls
Points 40

5 ghouls
Points 40

6 wolves
Points 60

6 wolves
Points 60

6 wolves
Points 60

5 fell bats
Points 100

Black coach
Points 200

TOTAL 2,000 pts

Basic plan - VC will have death magic - his job will be to thin out the ranks of enemy with range spells - even better if i get soul steal to take wounds off characters. Other spell casters job to fill out the ranks of the core (initially) then to raise in behind enemy

Main core units will advance in the centre supported by Black coach
gouls/wolves/bats try to mess up flanks - stop marches - tie up flankers etc

with 12 power dice and several useful bound spells - the plan is to have varied and powerful magic phases

what you all think? improvements?

klastica
24-12-2006, 14:54
Having looked at the list again and wayed up pretty much all possible options - Im gonna deem this list UNBEATABLE

I just cannot see a flaw!!!

truthsayer
24-12-2006, 18:56
Having looked at the list again and wayed up pretty much all possible options - Im gonna deem this list UNBEATABLE

I just cannot see a flaw!!!


Well I wouldn't say that. I reckon dwarfs would be able to whip this list! :p

Oh and Ive just realised you replied to your own post bigging yourself up :eek:

Jhayden
24-12-2006, 19:06
I could still dominate you in magic and charges with my high elves. I'll just wait out back, cripple your tougher units with my RBTs and when you get close enough i'll just charge you. 4 cavalry charges teamed up with 3 chariots is pretty beastly.

Also with high elf +1 dispel and annulian crystal, as well as 2 dispel scrolls you'll have a tough time getting anything off.
Go go Book of Hoeth!

Prince Sairion
24-12-2006, 19:12
Yep, no flaws that I can see. . .

Oh hang on a mo,

Relying on the magic phase entirely, the most unreliable phase in the game.

Having no combat punch other than the vampire and the coach (!?)

Plenty of piddly little units oh so easy to pick off, even with pea-shooter armed snotlings :rolleyes:

I reckon even my High elves could beat this list. Now thats an insult! ;)

Plan vs the list. Kill the bits, walk around the rest.

Jhayden
24-12-2006, 19:26
Yep, no flaws that I can see. . .

Oh hang on a mo,

Relying on the magic phase entirely, the most unreliable phase in the game.

Having no combat punch other than the vampire and the coach (!?)

Plenty of piddly little units oh so easy to pick off, even with pea-shooter armed snotlings :rolleyes:

I reckon even my High elves could beat this list. Now thats an insult! ;)

Plan vs the list. Kill the bits, walk around the rest.

Exactly. This list is good if teamed up with a heavy defense or offense list, but by itself it's really kind of weak. With full cav I can maneuver around your zombies and skels and just shoot your black coach to death with my RBTs, leaving the rest of your mages easy to take out. Once they're gone you might as well just hand me the victory. You're not going to kill me with hordes of zombies and wolves.

klastica
24-12-2006, 20:21
Sorry Im gonna have to disagree with you HE players

Bolt throwers are gonna do a it of damage but not on the scale you all seem to be suggesting - and certainly not enough to kill more than can be raised


Necra Vampire gets plus 1 to cast

BTs will be easy prey for bats/wolves

flankers will be slowed/stopped
fear test after fear test
plus plenty of panic tests

one of my necromancers has a bound item that does d3 strength 4 hits - any wounds caused will create a panic test - little things like that would give my VC the edge (certainly over HE)

lee
24-12-2006, 20:44
i think its a good list not unbeatable. dwarfs would do well agenst this list.
you list lacks hiting power i would drop the black coach and try and get some black knights

Jhayden
24-12-2006, 21:50
Sorry Im gonna have to disagree with you HE players

Bolt throwers are gonna do a it of damage but not on the scale you all seem to be suggesting - and certainly not enough to kill more than can be raised


Necra Vampire gets plus 1 to cast

BTs will be easy prey for bats/wolves

flankers will be slowed/stopped
fear test after fear test
plus plenty of panic tests

one of my necromancers has a bound item that does d3 strength 4 hits - any wounds caused will create a panic test - little things like that would give my VC the edge (certainly over HE)


You assume i'll be keeping my RBTs out in the open when infact i'll be keeping them well protected behind a wall of heavy cav and chariots. If I really need to stop your bats early i'll just send in my great eagles. No big deal if they die, they're only 50 points and they'll be enough to hold you in place until I can blast your spellcasters out of the sky.

meowser
25-12-2006, 04:35
I agree that your army is lacking some backbone.
Maxing out on magic is cheesy for any army, imho (possible Tzeench exception)

I would feel more comfortable with a solid block of ~18+ Grave Guard.
Knights would also add extra punch, possibly more reliably than the Coach
Even some Spirit Hosts could tie up anything too nasty to deal with

Prince Sairion
25-12-2006, 16:50
I've played VC's on a number of occasions, good fun for the most part, but they have several weaknesses.

1. Reliance on magic to boost units.

2. Fragile troops outside of the main blocks.

3. A lack of hitting power in combat without characters to boost them.

With this list you are seriously playing to all three of these weaknesses. I wouldn't play VC's without the following units: Bistos gravy guard, Whites black knights and the spirit hostesses.

Dire wolves are one of (but not Tnumber one) the worst units in the game for effectiveness. No marching is rubbish.

Wolf_Pack
25-12-2006, 17:16
Dire wolves are one of (but not Tnumber one) the worst units in the game for effectiveness. No marching is rubbish.

Wow ! That's pushing it. Wolves are dead fast if you can carry your general around them for a single turn. After that, they are likely to charge warmachines, and creeping within 8 inches of the enemy, where you don't need to march. They shine even more in a Carstein army with aura of dark majesty.

But the rest of your post I echo.

I would never, ever take a coach over a unit of trusty black knights. 6 knights with a full command and a war banner stands at 215, and is a far better investment, (if you can spare another 20 points, go for the banner of the barrows)

I also simply LOVE grave guard in infantry heavy lists. With shields and warbanner they are tough, and with the banner of the barrows and halberds they can do some proper killing, especially with a staf of damnation.

vorac
26-12-2006, 00:31
I agree with Wolfpack , i've played the Necrarch army and it certainly has weaknesses, have you ever given any thought to what will happen if you have a really bad magic phase, just think what would happen if that VC count rolls a snake eyes on the miscast chart :( He's also right about the BK and the wolves, his in particular have been known to be a thorn in my side lol

lorelorn
26-12-2006, 01:57
Hmm, unbeatable you say. Here are a few flaws:

1. No Unholy Cynosure on your general? Considering how reliant your army is on this character performing well, the omission of the 'get out of jail free' for miscasts is... unusual.

2. No units to shield your characters. Where do they go? Any players who knows their stuff will just charge a 100-150 point unit of cav straight into the necomrancers' units, kill the wizard, and not care what happens next.

3. Vulnerable to shooting. Related to point 2, but you have no starting unit with an effective table presence, even though such options exist in your list.

4. Ghouls. What are 5 Ghouls meant to do anyway? Too slow to be a threat to war machines, too small to take on enemy units. The only use I see for them is as a 40 point missile screen for those too-small zombie units.

5. No surprises. In writing this list you have dictated your first two magic phases to yourself. Anyone opposite knows you will be spending your first two turns getting your units up to an effective size. You have a big magic phase, and maybe they can only dispel half of your spells. An intelligent player will simply size up the greatest threat to their army - additional raised zombies and skeletons, or damage spells from your general. They will ignore one half, and stop the other.

6. Black Coach. Put simply, two banshees are better. Certainly better for this list, which lacks other substantive fast attack options. If you intend to lure your opponent into zombie units they cannot kill, then have two banshees ready to scream into combat where needed to reduce enemy effectiveness.

Consider this scenario: you are playing an Ogre Kingdoms list. The Ogres get the first turn (not unlikely considering how many deployments you have) and march all Ogre units 12" forward. They are now in charge range, and you have yet to cast a spell. So you can cope with just one magic phase to get combat ready, or bravely march backwards and give yourself another turn. If a Butcher eats the Daemon Heart in your first turn, you are in big trouble. This is against a list generally considered weak overall.

However, this list isn't all bad. Here's what I like:

1. Dark Magic with extra range. This is a killer combo, and one I've used myself in 7th edition. The battle report is up on my blog if you're interested to see how it went. The Dark Magic spells are great and give a lot of flexiblity to your magical attack options.

2. 5 Fell Bats. Forget war machines, the role of this unit is now to sit behind enemy units facing your lines. If they enemy flee, whether by choice or not, they will be destroyed if even part of one model passes through this unit. With large bases and skimish formation, you can threaten a lot of units.

4. Magic phase. This is pretty tough, and I like how you will have 4 power dice in the army pool, which lets you focus on whatever is needed most in a given turn. Two bound spells also increase the pressure on your opponent.


The list isn't bad, but it is in no way unbeatable, and your support units are not capable of doing the job you seem to expect of them.

truthsayer
26-12-2006, 14:51
Sorry Im gonna have to disagree with you HE players

Bolt throwers are gonna do a it of damage but not on the scale you all seem to be suggesting - and certainly not enough to kill more than can be raised


Necra Vampire gets plus 1 to cast

BTs will be easy prey for bats/wolves

flankers will be slowed/stopped
fear test after fear test
plus plenty of panic tests

one of my necromancers has a bound item that does d3 strength 4 hits - any wounds caused will create a panic test - little things like that would give my VC the edge (certainly over HE)

Id love to play against this list. yes there is a lot of magic.. for the first 2 turns anyway, and thats what my scrolls are for. See if you can guess what army I play.

1. The vamp gets +1 to cast, whoopdedoo so do mine, but all of mine get it!
2. My bolt throwers will rip through those piddly little units of wolves leaving you charging with 1-2 which will get killed off through CR.
3. My Flankers will be doing the stopping not yours.
4. Ill just bring some fear causers of my own to negate your fear.
5. Plenty of panic tests from the rod you say.. thats if you get it off.

Ive got a few little things that would give me the edge too ;)

Id say scrap the list and start again.

klastica
26-12-2006, 15:01
OK OK
Ill come clean - i was getting no response to my original post so i posted the unbeatable response to invoke some reaction which it did.

Some great ideas here - especially Lorelorn - thanks very much

Magic can be an unreliable phase - of that I am well aware - but if ur not too greedy (which Im not) using at most 3 dice to cast spells and with 3 bound spells to support (not 2 Lorelorn) the chances of miscasting is less than ten to 1 - i like these odds

I played a Von Carstein Wolf army for the past 8 months with great success - I had about 60 wolves on the field and all characters with wolf form - it was fun

The last battle I had against Skaven went horribly - he bent the rules a bit and broke them in places but that aside I was on the ropes with his heavy magic and shooting phases. SO i decided to try something completely different and an army that would maybe counter his advantages in the last game.

So i drew up this list that would surely give the Skaven player more problems - I posted it to see how it would stand up generally.

I still believe some people on this thread arent really taking this list seriously enough as although it could fail horribly at times it could equally work to devastating effect

Im currently deciding on whether to boot out a the black coach and a unit of Zombies and add in a unit of grave guard and a banshee or two

any more comments would be welcome - thanks to all that have contributed so far

truthsayer
26-12-2006, 17:11
OK OK
Ill come clean - i was getting no response to my original post so i posted the unbeatable response to invoke some reaction which it did.

Heh Heh Heh, quite cunning. I get a bit miffed if no-one replies to my posts sometimes too. I'd never say I was unbeatable though, thats just political suicide on the forums ;) .


Most of what is said above will help immensely. A banshee or two, drop the coach. get some gravy guard and perhaps a wight lord or vamp thrall.

Maybe even look at the Ebony skull magic item. I like that one.

athamas
26-12-2006, 17:17
IMO you army is flawd from the start...

your count should have noble blood, unholy cynosure, master of black arts, and the black periapt, and be level 2, making him level 3 overall, then have 3 level 3 necromancers with, power familier, staff of damnation , and book of arkhan & dispell scroll


your units just want to be 3-4 big blocks of zombies, you can hide your characters in 1 or 2 and let them stand behind your main battleline,

sure lots of small units are nice but just take 20 dire wolves to remove the worst of the flankers,

general missile fire is not a problem, you have you zombie meat shield for that...

just march up the board, and make your units bigger and bigger [with 4 casters you should be able to get at least 1-2 spels of on the first turn (ppl will counter the bigger rais unit spells only )]

once you have got near your enemy, with your army kinda intact [thengs die but you rebuild them,] you can take their charge, and not completly break down [you wnat them to charge units that your character are not in]

then in your turn [they should have charged in about turn 3 idealy] you can then create new units whenre they are needed, then march them by magic into the flanks of the enemy, winning via shear CR... idealy you will do this to a few units at the smae time,...

the army relies on your oponant not being able to remove your spell casters before you have created a horde from hell, so you willhave problems if you come across any army that can remove your characters quickly, and stop your units, or nulify your magic..