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View Full Version : From High Elves to Wood Elves... a change of direction.



enyoss
24-12-2006, 01:37
Hi!

So, I've been playing High Elves for about 10 years now and wanted a change of pace... step up the Wood Elves!

Now, to make my gaming experience quite different, I really wanted to avoid ranked units and cavalry (which I use loads in my High Elf armies) and instead concentrate on the skirmishers with a few big guys. So, here's the list with a few comments afterwards:

280 - Highborn: Blades of Loec, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, Annoyance of Netlings
219 - 11 Wardancers: Full Command

131 - Noble: Greatsword, light armour, Amaranthine Brooch, Gwytherc's Horn
259 - 17 Eternal Guard: Full Command - War Banner

165 - Branchwraith: Level 1, Murder of Spites, Cluster of Radients
108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

150 - 12 Glade Guard: Champion

102 - 6 Scouts

215 - 3 Treekin: Elder

150 - Spellsinger: Level 2, Calaingor's Stave

-----------
1995 pts


A quick commentary: The main reason the Eternal Guard are there is so I don't completely bore my opponent with nothing but skirmishers, whilst giving me something which I can use as an anvil. I like the idea of a Wardancer Highborn and the Blades of Loec seem to really take advantage of some of the dances. Finally, I know it's not too great on the magic defence but, and you'll have to believe me here, this should be more than enough for the group I play in.

Cheers for the comments and let the knives come out! :)

enyoss

|====== EDIT ==========
| UPDATED LIST @ post 9
|====================

ashaman76
24-12-2006, 06:12
I love the list! Blades of Loec make for a nasty Wardancer Highborn.

Ethernal
24-12-2006, 10:28
I don't think you will get any where whit the spells you can cast whit you lvl 2 and lvl 1 so i would:

go for a lvl 1 mage whit 1-2 scrolls or something like that.

And i would drop the scouts and the champ in the glade guard unit for a unit whit 5 way watchers(whit the extra 10 points from the mage)
I find they work great in my army`s.

I don't see the great thing whit the A murder of spirits but that might just be me.I would rather take A pegant of shrikes to snipe.

-Ethernal-

god octo
24-12-2006, 11:27
[QUOTE=enyoss;1168274]Hi!

280 - Highborn: Blades of Loec, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, Annoyance of Netlings
219 - 11 Wardancers: Full Command

131 - Noble: Greatsword, light armour, Amaranthine Brooch, Gwytherc's Horn
259 - 17 Eternal Guard: Full Command - War Banner

165 - Branchwraith: Level 1, Murder of Spites, Cluster of Radients
108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

150 - 12 Glade Guard: Champion

102 - 6 Scouts

215 - 3 Treekin: Elder

150 - Spellsinger: Level 2, Calaingor's Stave

-----------
1995 pts

[QUOTE]

The army look fine, but if you saved some points, you could add in some speed into your army. This would both annoy your opponent and protect your flanks. If you did the following:

1. Drop the wardancers to 9 strong-54 points saved.
2. took all the champions from your core choices- 42 points saved
3. Lose 1 scout- 17 points saved
4.Lose the champion from the treekin-20 points saved.

This gives us 113 points left over. You could use 5o for a ever useful Great eagel and then 25 on a scroll for your mage. You then have 38 points left. If you dropped 1 glade guard, you would then have 50 points, eneough for another eagle. Youre list would then look like this:

Heroes:751
280 - Highborn: Blades of Loec, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, Annoyance of Netlings
131 - Noble: Greatsword, light armour, Amaranthine Brooch, Gwytherc's Horn
165 - Branchwraith: Level 1, Murder of Spites, Cluster of Radients
175-Spellsinger: Level 2, Calaingor's Stave and dispel scroll

Core:764
132-11 glade guard
85-5 scouts
96-8 dryads
96-8 dryads
96-8 dryads
259 - 17 Eternal Guard: Full Command - War Banner

Special:360
165-8 wardancers with full command
195-3 treekin

Rare:100
50-Great eagle
50-Great eagle.

1975 points.

What do you think and hope it helps a bit.

enyoss
25-12-2006, 23:54
Cheers for the comments :). I'll try and deal with them in turn.

ashaman76: Thanks! The Blades did seem to be pretty lethal... I'll see how they turn out in practice though I suppose.

Ethernal: Although I know it's kind of standard here to take a Scroll Caddy, I absolutely can't abide them! Even if the chances of getting a spell off are slim, I'd rather have something to do in my own phase than specifically tool up to hose my opponent's magic phase.

Regarding the waywatchers, as I don't want to change my Mage setup too much it looks like they'll have to wait. They seem like they could be quite useful but every time I try and fit them in the cost just seems too high. C'est la vie I suppose.

As for the Murder of Spites, I thought I'd experiment to see if it's any good! Still, on your advice I'll try Pageant of Shrikes, as there'll probably be a liche priest lurking in a front rank at some point.

God Octo: I quite like your suggestions. I just noticed that the Branchnymph upgrade for the dryads really isn't worth it, as for the cost of a single dryad you only get one extra attack. Must get used to these multiple attack models :). Again though, as I don't like Dispel Scolls, I'd probably change the list you suggest by flogging the Scroll and using the freed up points with the 25 left over to buy back two of the wardancers.

Thanks again for the suggestions... keep them coming if you have any more :). Apart from that, I'll probably be getting the stuff in the next couple of weeks so I'll let you know how it goes as soon as I get a game in!

Cheers,

enyoss

mightygnoblar
27-12-2006, 02:07
since u gave your mage the stave u probably know this trick but its wroth mentioning anyway, drop the branchwraith for another level two, with whatver set up u like, i tend to mount her and give her the deepwood sphere
then during your magic phase cast tree sing 4 times on one dice, this is a good way of drawing out disple dice, then use your other wizard to get a spell through
this is win a win situation as if they take the bait u can geta spell off that u want, if they don't then they'll have to let the tree sing through and that can always be put to good use

Pisy
27-12-2006, 06:03
Drop the Champion in the Dryads, they only make the unit vulnerable and by the way a branchwraith is one of the weakest charakters in whfb.
16 Dryads are to few anyway. And where is the treeman? a we army without a treeman is like a dwarf without a beard.

i started to play we with 2 treeman, 18 wardancers, plenty of dryads and treekin. i think i didn't even have one glade guard. the only think i did, was hiding in the forrest and moving it towards the enemy in order to strike hard in the 5 round.

but i think everyone has his own tactica and believes his list is best. so just keep on trying your own ideas.


280 - Highborn: Blades of Loec, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, Annoyance of Netlings
219 - 11 Wardancers: Full Command

131 - Noble: Greatsword, light armour, Amaranthine Brooch, Gwytherc's Horn
259 - 17 Eternal Guard: Full Command - War Banner

165 - Branchwraith: Level 1, Murder of Spites, Cluster of Radients
108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

108 - 8 Dryads: Champion

150 - 12 Glade Guard: Champion

102 - 6 Scouts

215 - 3 Treekin: Elder

150 - Spellsinger: Level 2, Calaingor's Stave

popisdead
28-12-2006, 21:07
Drop 4 wardancers.

Change the brooch and horn for amber pendant. FYI Light armour grants nothing but a waste of pts.

Drop 2 of the Branch Nymphs.

Drop the champ on the Glade Guard for a musician.

Drop the treekin elder.

I 'personally' don't think the composition is very good but if you like it, go with it.

enyoss
30-12-2006, 00:43
Hi again!

Ok, I've updated my list but first I'll deal with the last few comments in turn.

@ mightygnoblar: I'm not really too sure on the Magic combos for Wood Elves as I've yet to get the stuff, never mind play a game with it! Still, after a bit of experimentation I may give your suggestion a try.

@ Pisy: Regarding the champions, I'd already decided to drop them. I've had years of playing High Elves where it's almost always beneficial to take the upgrade in combat units. After a bit of thought (and a poke from God Octo...) I realised that just ain't the case with these 2A skirmishers!

Branchwraith's may be kind of weak, but I need the 2 extra dispel dice and really like the concept of the character... she stays I'm afraid :).

As for the Treeman? You may have noticed my other Wood Elf thread regarding Ents as Treemen in the General Discussion Forum... the big guy will make an entrance once I've decided on the answer to that question.

@ popisdead: Now, dropping the Amaranthine Brooch and the Horn for the Amber Pendant kind of baffles me. Even if he strikes first, three S6 attacks won't be enough to ensure his survival with no save whatsoever. As the Great Weapon is so prevalent, the Amaranthine Brooch seems too good to be true for its cost, while the Horn makes sure the unit doesn't autobreak against fear (or, to be more precise, will only stay with double 1). I really can't afford for this stubborn unit to be autobreaking!

As for the light armour, I find that for it's almost negligle cost it at least offers a chance of reducing the number of annoying horse-like attacks that make it through. I *really* don't want to lose my hero to these just to save 4pts :)!

As for the Tree Kin Elder: dropped. Again, I realised that these guys need to mulch rank and file and can't afford to have a third of my unit stuck in a challenge.

Out of interest, with the composition, what kind of list do you use? Just wondering as it's always good to get an idea of what else is out there :).


Well then. With all that on board, here is an updated list.

290 - Highborn: Blades of Loec, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, Annoyance of Netlings
183 - 9 Wardancers: Full Command

131 - Noble: Greatsword, light armour, Amaranthine Brooch, Gwytherc's Horn
259 - 17 Eternal Guard: Full Command - War Banner

165 - Branchwraith: Level 1, Pageant of Shrikes, Cluster of Radients
96 - 8 Dryads

96 - 8 Dryads

96 - 8 Dryads

132 - 11 Glade Guard

85 - 5 Scouts

120 - 5 Glade Riders

195 - 3 Treekin

150 - Spellsinger: Level 2, Calaingor's Stave

-----------
1998 pts

Quick comments: I went for the Glade Riders over the Great Eagles as I've never really liked using the birds. This way at least I have a unit which can keep the pressure on regarding rank-cancelling.

Cheers for the comments and keep them coming!

enyoss

kyussinchains
30-12-2006, 12:54
I'm glad you dropped the eagles, for one, I hate playing them, I feel like I'm commiting an act of animal cruelty when I shoot them to death with bolt throwers...

I'm not looking forward to facing this army at all.... maybe you'll win a few for a change!

edit: the dryads look hideously underpriced for what they do also, 12 points each?!

Ender Shadowkin
07-01-2007, 07:13
Ok, these comments are on the last army you posted.

I'm not a big fan of the moonstone, it rarely pays off, if you give your lord the amber amulet instead then he truely would be a monster . . .

I always take 2 units of glade guards . . . they s4 at short range and no move and shoot is brutal. 2 units of Dryads and 2 units of glade guard has really worked well for me.

The lore of Athel loren has some good spells, but you usually end up with situational spells in which you wont always have a use for, you sometimes even end up eating your power dice because there is nothing worth casting. I have found unless you bring an archmage its best not to try and be offensive at all. I fear your lvl 2 wizard is only going to get you an extra dispell dice. I would drop him and add the eagles back in for mage hunting.

In place of the wizard I would take a BSB (+ oaken armor), that gives you another noble to keep the EG stuborn not to mention re-rolling those stuborn (ld 9, oh yes) break tests. You can actaully put the BSB in the war dancers . . . If you dont put the amber amulet on the lord, a noble with it is a great Body guard for the BSB. Having them both in the EG will get you a nice static combat res . . .

Wardancer units are thought of to be optimal at 8 modles (that would be 7+ your lord in your list). More never hurts, but if you need the points.

I think you will get much more out of 2 eagles than your unit of Glade riders. If it was me I would drop the glade riders and the scouts and add in an Eagle and some waywatchers. Way watchers allways scare people with heavy cav and their special abilities ensure you will get to place them in a "scout" type postion, regardless of the terrain.

More eternal guard please (20), they will take some hits when charged but after the stand (yeah stuborn) you need to some left to lay the smack down.

A note about your amber pendant comments, the models in contact strike last that means all of your EG buddies also get to lay hits down onto the model touching the bearer. That, plus his own S6 attacks, can usually keep him alive verse most rank and file, not necessarily verse a hero, however a hero is probably going to have a magic weapon negating your amaranth broach anyway.

The hail of doom arrow is considered mandatory in WE general 101, mine comes deployed on a Eagle riding noble, but remember if you keep your mage, you can give it to her (she has a bow!)

I've also ran the treekin eldar a few times, 4 s5 attacks is nothing to sneeze at (vampire thrall . . .), but I only have done this when his unit is joined by a unicorn riding mage. It is also usefull for challenging flaming sword weilding foes. (to keep the rest of your unit alive).

And finnally Wild riders are a great unit, but I don't see where they would fit into your list, but FYI they work really well.

Sevellyn
10-01-2007, 16:48
132 - 12 Glade Guard


Just FYI, your list is over 2000 pts. Either your unit count or your points listing is wrong on the Glade Guard. 12 little men /= 132 pts.

enyoss
11-01-2007, 00:45
Cheers again for the responses. I'll try to go through them as best I can!

@ Ender Shadowkin: Thanks for the detailed analysis of my list :).



I'm not a big fan of the moonstone, it rarely pays off, if you give your lord the amber amulet instead then he truely would be a monster . . .


I kind of agree. I wasn't really sure how good it would be myself, but then I've heard a lot of people saying how great it is so I thought I'd give it a try. It seemed like something that's very 'Wood Elfy' so I thought it might be a nice break coming from my High Elf background. With the Amber Amulet, I would have thought that the Wardancers' high initiative and manoeuvrability would make it kind of obsolete with them?



I always take 2 units of glade guards . . . they s4 at short range and no move and shoot is brutal. 2 units of Dryads and 2 units of glade guard has really worked well for me.


I might try this in the future (I'm getting the battalion box so should have enough for two Glade Guard units) but for the minute I want to see how I can adapt to the skirmishers.



The lore of Athel loren has some good spells, but you usually end up with situational spells in which you wont always have a use for, you sometimes even end up eating your power dice because there is nothing worth casting. I have found unless you bring an archmage its best not to try and be offensive at all. I fear your lvl 2 wizard is only going to get you an extra dispell dice. I would drop him and add the eagles back in for mage hunting.


I agree on the Lore of Athel Loren, it does seem very situational. I do have a history of leaning towards the lores with situational and combat boosting spells though (in 6th I was a big fan of the Lore of Light and love the fact that Portent of Far is now the default spell for Heavens). Luckily, in my group minimal magic is the norm so I might get away with it (see Game 5 in the first post of this thread
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63866 for more on this!). I did think of putting a BSB in the Eternal Guard too but plumped for the Great Weapon guy just because the model rocks :). Again though, I'll see how things go on the magic front and maybe reintroduce him later.



I think you will get much more out of 2 eagles than your unit of Glade riders. If it was me I would drop the glade riders and the scouts and add in an Eagle and some waywatchers. Way watchers allways scare people with heavy cav and their special abilities ensure you will get to place them in a "scout" type postion, regardless of the terrain.


Again, I'm beginning to agree here. I recently used the Eagles in my High Elf army to unprecedented success so they'll likely make a reappearance by the time I have my first game. As for Waywatchers, I don't have any models for them at the moment so I may give them a couple of proxy playtests but won't be including them properly until I get the models. On another note, I'm getting a Treeman (well, Ent) so will be looking to leave a Rare slot for the big guy at some point.



More eternal guard please (20), they will take some hits when charged but after the stand (yeah stuborn) you need to some left to lay the smack down.


I know, I know! Thing is, I was actually looking forward to playing with a smaller unit for once. The last time my army composition was realistically limited by the models I had was about 10 years ago, and I'm quite looking forward to the feeling of having to cope with what I've got! Get back to my gaming roots as it were :).



A note about your amber pendant comments, the models in contact strike last that means all of your EG buddies also get to lay hits down onto the model touching the bearer. That, plus his own S6 attacks, can usually keep him alive verse most rank and file, not necessarily verse a hero, however a hero is probably going to have a magic weapon negating your amaranth broach anyway.


I'm still not entirely convinced, but I'll give it a try... great weapons usually rule supreme in this neck of the woods!



The hail of doom arrow is considered mandatory in WE general 101, mine comes deployed on a Eagle riding noble, but remember if you keep your mage, you can give it to her (she has a bow!)


Mmm... everyone seems to be saying this to me! I'll have to think of a way to fit it in by the looks of it. I'm a bit wary of giving it to the Mage though as her BS isn't too great.



And finally Wild riders are a great unit, but I don't see where they would fit into your list, but FYI they work really well.

Wild Riders do seem really good, but I can't stand their models. I have pipe dreams of converting a unit of centaurs to fill their place but, well, it's never going to happen!

Phew! I hope that addressed everything... you gave me quite a lot to go at!

@ Sevellyn: Let me guess... you’re an accountant right ;)? List updated with the correct unit size (11). Thanks for pointing it out.

Well, the models should be arriving soon so I should be able to let you know how I do in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again for the useful criticism and comments.

Cheers,

enyoss

jimmysnz
11-01-2007, 01:44
Cheers again for the responses. I'll try to go through them as best I can!

Again, I'm beginning to agree here. I recently used the Eagles in my High Elf army to unprecedented success so they'll likely make a reappearance by the time I have my first game. As for Waywatchers, I don't have any models for them at the moment so I may give them a couple of proxy playtests but won't be including them properly until I get the models. On another note, I'm getting a Treeman (well, Ent) so will be looking to leave a Rare slot for the big guy at some point.


enyoss

On a Side note, I also was looking at getting an Ent to stand in as a treeman because I prefered the model. But I was warned by the guy at GW that I wouldnt be allowed to use it in any GW tournaments or anything official. Also my opponents could make a fuss over it.
In the end it comes down to some stupid leagalities between New Line and GW.
So I went for the tree man model from WHFB.


You list looks good and should play nicely. Personally I always take a musician. It is ususally the cheepest thing you can have, doesnt give away Victory points, gives you a free leadership if you need to rally, and can give you the edge in a drawn combat.

I love wardancers and I will be very interested to see how your unit of them goes. I may end up changing my list and putting my noble in my wardancers.
Two things about wardancers - Almost always use the extra attack dance when you charge - against 1+AS T4 (eg Chosen Chaos knights) or better it might be better to use killing blow. If charged use 4+ WS.

So do update us with how you go!!!

enyoss
11-01-2007, 10:12
On a Side note, I also was looking at getting an Ent to stand in as a treeman because I prefered the model. But I was warned by the guy at GW that I wouldnt be allowed to use it in any GW tournaments or anything official. Also my opponents could make a fuss over it.
In the end it comes down to some stupid leagalities between New Line and GW.
So I went for the tree man model from WHFB.


This is what I'd heard too. I'm not really interested in tournament play though so this isn't a problem for me. If, for some reason, I do find myself in a situation where the lumberguy is disallowed, I'll just drop him from the list... at least I've been given due warning!



You list looks good and should play nicely. Personally I always take a musician. It is ususally the cheepest thing you can have, doesnt give away Victory points, gives you a free leadership if you need to rally, and can give you the edge in a drawn combat.


I'm with you on this one under usual circumstances. I may drop a Glade Guard model to put a musician on the Glade Riders but I figured that a small tweaking like that could be done during final preparations for a game.



I love wardancers and I will be very interested to see how your unit of them goes. I may end up changing my list and putting my noble in my wardancers.
Two things about wardancers - Almost always use the extra attack dance when you charge - against 1+AS T4 (eg Chosen Chaos knights) or better it might be better to use killing blow. If charged use 4+ WS.


Against Chosen Knights (should I have the misfortune to face them again... I really hate them!) and other high save units I'll probably go for the Killing Blow dance on the charge. The Blades of Loec should then be most effective too. I also agree with you with taking a charge with the 4+ Ward dance. As long as they can hang in there for one turn the plan's a goodun'.

Cheers,

enyoss