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Atoom
24-12-2006, 11:29
Hi Everybody,

I've been working on a 1500 p VC list, that is to face dwarves, and need some advise...

HEROES
1 Vampire Thrall (Carstein)
Battle Standard Bearer
P: Walking Death
Biting Blade

1 Necromancer
- Level: 2
Book of Arkhan

1 Necromancer
- Level: 2
Black Periapt
Dispel Scroll

CORE
19 Skeletons
1 Skeleton Captain

19 Skeletons
1 Skeleton Captain

10 Zombies

10 Zombies

5 Dire Wolves
1 Doomwolf

5 Dire Wolves
1 Doomwolf

SPECIAL
19 Grave Guard
1 Crypt Keeper
Banner of Doom

2 Spirit Hosts


RARE
Banshee

Power Dice Pool 6
Dispel Dice Pool 6

Number of models in army 98

STRATEGY:
The idea is to stick the thrall in a unit of skellies that is to back the charge of the grave guards. The other block of skellies and spirit hosts hold one flank, backed by the banshee, while the wolves wil race forward on the other flank, hoping to get behind the battleline for rear and flank charges. The necromancers will hide in the two small units of braindeads, and use their spells to enhance the skellies and grave guards.

Comments are more than welcome.

Merry Xmas

/Atoom

Juhaaha
24-12-2006, 15:53
Why do you have scroll, if you are going to play against Dwarfs ?

Move Fast Hit Low
24-12-2006, 18:29
i would drop the doom wolfs, fast cav against dwarfs are gonna take lots of hits so he will probably get mowed down, but they are pretty cheap so....

eleveninches
24-12-2006, 21:40
yeah, i was going to say that the doom wolves are virtually useless against most dwarven infantry (great weapons), unless you use them en masse to take out artillary crewmen and charge into the shooty dwarves

Jhayden
24-12-2006, 21:55
I would group up your zombies into one giant group of 20. Then I would get rid of your wolves and replace them with bats. -1 to shoot at them helps a bunch, and you can fly over to enemy artillery to take it out.

vampires are cool!
25-12-2006, 20:51
drop the periapt - wont help that much - and take the staff of damnation on that last necromancer. and give the thrall some armour.

AngryEnjoyment
25-12-2006, 21:14
Banshee's are nice, but if your making an army specifically to fight dwarves I wouldn't use attacks based off of your enemys leadership to do damage. Dwarves have very strong leadership values.

vampires are cool!
25-12-2006, 21:56
Unless you have something to lower your opponants LD [doom and darkness for example - and theirs no way you can base tactics on the chance tha you'll randomly roll up a spell] banshees wont help much thats true.
I'd drop it and take another unit of zombies or ghouls. Good luck, most VC's struggle against Dwarfs, espesialy in smaller games.

vorac
26-12-2006, 00:21
take out the dispel scroll and replace it with a power stone, take the staff of damnation because your going to need it. Change the dire wolves for fell bats, and i'd maybe drop the banshee and spirit hosts for black knights because most likely if the dwarf played=r knows what he is doing he will have given a cheap rune to his artillery and will shoot at the spirithost.Skellies and zombies won't win fights against dwarfs they are too tough and have great armour, you really need a hard hitting unit like BK to help you win combat res so they flee automatically.Avoid any unit that cna have a magic banner because most likely he will have the rune of courage which makes his unit immune to fear.These include ironbreakers,Hammerers,Longbeards and BSB.

northwoodDreamer
26-12-2006, 01:46
Definitely drop the scroll (useless vs. Dwarfs) and get a power stone. The wolves won't do much good at all, any shooting that your opponent has besides a cannon and bolt thrower will destroy the wolves. Go for the fell bats. The Banshee also won't be worth her points against Dwarfs and can easily be picked off by any artillery with a rune. The Spirit Hosts will be a bit harder to kill, but it kind of sucks to have them hurt at all before they go into combat. As was previously said, dropping the ghosts for Black Knights will do you a world of good - just make sure to screen the knights with something - probably the bats. Once the knights get around back they can make quick work of any artillery crew w/ the bats and then rear charge the immobile Dwarfs. If your opponent takes a unit of Miners do your best to avoid it - especially w/ the knights and bats. Also, do your best to keep your troops close enough to your general so that they can march. Dwarfs are slow... real slow. Take full advantage of that.

lorelorn
26-12-2006, 02:08
One option is to put your current BSB into the Grave Guard unit, and swap out the Doom Banner on that unit for the War Banner and have some serious combat res before you swing a blade. (+3 for ranks, +3 for standard, BSB, war banner, and +1 Walking Death makes a deadly +7 before combat starts, and +8 if you outnumber).

I also echo the comment about combining those two small zombie units. 20 zombies has some field presence at 1500 points. The Black Periapt is ok, since you will always have a spare dispel dice to save after each Dwarf turn.

A banshee is not great against Dwarfs, but Fell Bats (5 or 6) would be good. The other fast units won't be effective as such, but they will give the Dwarf player something to shoot at other than your Grave Guard unit.

Atoom
26-12-2006, 20:52
Hi ppl, thanks for all the feedback...

Alrighty, list has been changed according to your advise;
Doom wolves, one unit of dire wolves and banshee is now gone.
Fell bats added, along with some additional zombies and a bunch of ghouls.
The dispell scroll has been removed, and replaced with a powerstone for pounding the dwarves with magic the round before the main charge hits them.

My main consern is that I won't be able to do damage against those heavily armoured dwarves - It seems to me that the grave guards and the magic of the necromancers will have to do the trick?!

Please comment...

1500 pts Vampire Counts Army

HEROES
1 Vampire Thrall, hvy armour
+ Battle Standard Bearer
+ P: Walking Death
+ Biting Blade

1 Necromancer
+ Level: 2
+ Book of Arkhan

1 Necromancer
+ Level: 2
+ Black Periapt
+ Power Stone

CORE
20 Skeletons, full command
20 Skeletons, full command
15 Zombies
15 Zombies
6 Ghouls
6 Dire Wolves

SPECIAL
20 Grave Guard, full command
+ Banner of Doom
5 Fell Bats

RARE
N/A

Power Dice Pool 6
Dispel Dice Pool 6

Number of models in army 110

squeekenator
27-12-2006, 03:49
I'd grab as many wights as possible. Killing blow really helps, as it allows you to bypass their high armour save, and black knights are the only unit in the army (excluding vampires) that can really do much to dwarves, due to their high toughness and armour save, and even then they are only good on the charge. The grave guard are good. I'd reccomend a wight lord in a skeleton unit, with the KB on a 5+ sword (forgotten the name and I don't have my army book with me), which is going to help them out a LOT against sturdy dwarves. A great weapon or sword of might would also be good for the thrall to help the other skeleton unit out.

While I practically worship fell bats and dire wolves, neither will do much against the tough dwarven warriors unless the puppies can slip past the enemy lines to get a flank or rear charge, which isn't likely. Use them on artillery crews, however, and your opponent will soon learn that either the artillery unit wastes time firing at fairly cheap puppies and bats, or it gets tied up for the whole game.

Ghouls won't really do much. The few wounds they cause will bounce off high armour saves, and they lack the high speed of fell bats and dire wolves required to tie up artillery crews.

vampires are cool!
27-12-2006, 11:17
Not a bad second list, you still need that staff though. However, good job.

Atoom
27-12-2006, 19:31
Hi PPL,

Thanx for all your comments and advise, I have now desided for the following list:

1500 pts Vampire Counts Army

HEROES
1 Vampire Thrall, hvy armour
+ Battle Standard Bearer
+ P: Walking Death
+ Biting Blade

1 Necromancer
+ Level: 2
+ Black Periapt
+ Book of Arkhan

1 Necromancer
+ Level: 2
+ Staff of Damnation

CORE
20 Skeletons, Full Command

20 Skeletons, Full Command

15 Zombies

14 Zombies

5 Ghouls

6 Dire Wolves

SPECIAL
20 Grave Guard, Full Command
+Banner of Doom

5 Fell Bats

RARE
N/A

Power Dice Pool 6
Dispel Dice Pool 6

Number of models in army 108

northwoodDreamer
20-01-2007, 01:21
Well if i was facing dwarves, i wouldnt like banshee so much cause of dwarves high leadership, i always use coach as a flank with skeletons

Cow Pie Man 24
21-01-2007, 00:41
you should make your squad of ghouls a little bigger. drop the thrall and get a wight lord with a standard. killing blow is pretty good against dwarfs.

spikedog
21-01-2007, 02:41
I have to agree with the last poster I play against Dwarves and Ghouls have always been useful for me. They may not hit hard but with 2 poisoned attacks each a unit of 8 of them stands a good chance of taking some dwarves down. Combine this with a Skeleton or Zombie unit with ranks for a double attack and you will win combat no problem most of the time.

To make the points I would drop one of the units of Zombies, up the numbers on the other unit of Zombies and then take more Ghouls. As the old saying goes; "Buy Skeletons, Raise Zombies!"

dominic_carrillo
23-01-2007, 01:27
dwarves are going to shoot the hell out of the grave gaurd. i would go with alot more basic, cheap troops that will survive the 2+ rounds of shooting they will face as you move. Also, how about the Blood Line Power Aura of Dark Majesty? It will allow more of your army to march.
Good Luck!!!

dominic_carrillo
23-01-2007, 01:29
you should make your squad of ghouls a little bigger. drop the thrall and get a wight lord with a standard. killing blow is pretty good against dwarfs.

The black coach is gonna get owned by dwarves. Cannons, the Organ Gun and the nasty Strength 7 Bolt thrower. Any dwarf player worth his beard is going to have some serious firepower.

dominic_carrillo
23-01-2007, 01:31
Well if i was facing dwarves, i wouldnt like banshee so much cause of dwarves high leadership, i always use coach as a flank with skeletons

its gonna get shot down. Black Coach+Strength 7(cannon, bolt thrower w/ rune)= dead Black coach