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Philosophical Aun
11-07-2005, 20:47
I've recently typed out a brief backround concept for a human world in the Tau Empire. Instead of allowing the racial exentricities of humanity to continue as long as they served the Greater Good, the Ethereals... in all their wisdom, have decided that the Gue'la must be culturaly re-programmed.

In short, the entire world is a social experiment, with inspiration from dystopic fiction such as Brazil, 1984, Brave New World and Kallocain.

I'd really appreciate comments upon what I have thus far.

History
Belesaris was an unassuming world beyond the reach of the Astronomican, in the sparsely populated eastern fringe of the galaxy. The humans who were dwelling on this balkanised planet had not been unnoticed by the Imperium, however, the lack of any large quantities of valuable materials and the simplicity of the inhabitants made the returns of any conquest low.

Several hundred nation-states made constant war on the surface, using primitive weapons and technology. The masses were ruled by brutal and despotic warlords, none of whom were ever able to gain control of the planet. Occasionally, one of them would grow too powerful for the liking of the others and alliances were made to topple them.

The war had continued for countless generations when the first Tau Explorer-ship arrived in the system. Having only recently driven off the Imperium in the Damocles Crusade, they approached the human planet with caution and studied it from a distance.

“It is evidently clear that the Gue’la on the planet illustrate the natural state of these savage aliens. Without the iron fist of their Imperium, a constant threat of destruction, they degenerate into intra-species warfare."-
Aun’el Dal’yth H’vlain J’molk, Exploration Report

What they saw appalled them; truly the savage inhabitants of the planet needed the aid and enlightenment the Tau Empire could provide. After careful deliberations in the Ethereal councils of Dal’yth, the closest Sept World, the decision to commence limited trading and propaganda was made.

First contact with the world of Belesaris was made, a year later, by the experienced merchant/diplomat Por’el Dal’yth Kaga’lis. She made planetfall, just outside the city of Ragnaras, the largest settlement spotted by the surveyor drones. She made contact with the warlord Zhin Zhali, greeting him in the name of the Tau Empire and offering him technology (impressive looking trinkets) and friendship.

The warlord quickly accepted the offer and attempted to capitalize on the development by claiming to by “Chosen by the Travellers of the Heavens”. This did not go down too well with the other warlords, and an assassin killed Zhali within the month.

Por’el Kaga’lis attempted to contact other warlords, other alliances and other groups, but the effect was always the same. The people she contacted ended up dead, with the killers clamouring for her aid, hoping that it would be they who united Belesaris under their banner.

“Although it is unfitting for a servant of the Greater Good, I must admit I am becoming increasingly disconcerted by the actions of the aliens. Their shortsighted actions, coupled with the vast disparity of actors, makes conversion and indoctrination extremely difficult, perhaps even impossible.”
Por’el Dal’yth Kaga’lis, Trade Report

Two years after the initial contact, a second assembly was held on Dal’yth, regarding the balkanised planet. After having read the reports by the Fire, Earth, Water and Air caste, the members of the Ethereal caste went into vigorous discussion regarding what action was to be taken. Of particular interest were reports on the psychology of the Gue’la, a species who were prioritised after the Damocles Crusade. The reports were bleak, the Gue’la would only embrace the Greater Good if coerced, humanity was far too entrenched in anti-social behaviour and egoism. Under the threat of destruction however, it was clear that the Gue’la could work to further the Greater Good.

Quickly, the debate divided into two main groups. Those that wanted complete annexation, those that wanted strong support for one of the main warlords so that he could unite the planet.

“The Gue’la are a stark reminder of what we used to be, savages interested only about the furtherance of the self. Like children, they squabble over the tiny resources of this world, and as such, it is our role as the responsible parent to adjust their culture towards the realm of civilization.”
Aun’ui Dal’yth J’ilan, Argument in council.

The decision was made after an Honorblade Duel between the champions of the two groups. The world would be annexed, the warlords removed and the people coerced into the Greater Good.

The invasion-force was launched after two years, following immense psy-ops efforts to turn the population against the warlords. Promises of peace and better life were shown on immense holographic shows in the atmosphere of the planet. The stars of these shows were the recently annexed colony-worlds, where former Imperial Guards expressed their astonishment of the generosity and grandeur of the Tau Empire.

The primitive armies of the warlords were no match for the Grav-vehicles and pulse-weaponry of the Tau, and within three years of campaigning, every single warlord was hunted down and slaughtered. The people, finally free of their despotic rulers and filled with overblown promises cheered in the streets.

Their mirth was short-lived however, as the ground-troops of the Fire-Caste began the “necessary operations”, which the council had determined were necessary, to ensure the indoctrination of the Gue’la.

Like cattle, they were herded into the hab-complexes constructed by the Tau. Here, the social re-programming was begun, here the theories of the Earth Caste scientists were to be proved right. Could the Gue’la truly be turned to the Greater Good, or must they be eliminated, like Orks and Tyranids?

Today:

It is now 207 years since the Tau first made contact with Belisaris, and the world has changed entirely. The formerly rural population now dwell in vast hab-complexes, where starkly clad troops patrol the corridors. Holo-cams and surveyor drones are constantly watching for any anti-social behaviour and the word for privacy is no longer.

A population explosion followed the introduction the Tau technology to areas such as medicine and agriculture and the planet now boasts over 8 billion inhabitants, divided into castes, similar to that of the Tau. Children are separated from their parents, as soon as they are born, to be fostered by the State. At the age of four, all children are tested thoroughly for future strength, intelligence, speed and agility before being joined to one of the Tau-inspired castes of the world.
The cultural re-programming that the Tau have subjected the humans to is not without its problems though, and there are several anti-social groups who fight for the freedom to decide their own lives. These are a particular nuisance for the Tau, who are having some difficulty to combat the terrorist operations of the Freedom Corps.

On the whole however, the vast majority of the humans have accepted the new world order and are fairly competent to serve the Greater Good. The lessons learned during the Social Reprogramming are now applied to the newly conquered planets of the Third Expansion.

“With the freedom of choice curtailed, under an Iron Fist and an Iron Boot, it is quite possible for the Gue’la to serve the Greater Good, without devolving into their racial disposition of Egoism. Further experiments on newly annexed worlds are welcomed however, as some Gue’la seem impervious to our indoctrination, even though they are subjected to it from the crib.”-
Aun’O Dal’yth J’ilan

nazdreg5
11-07-2005, 21:38
that sounds sweet. try and make an army of the rebels or the tau

Philosophical Aun
11-07-2005, 22:00
that sounds sweet. try and make an army of the rebels or the tau

In actual fact, I've already got one! Its a mechanised batallion made up of the re-programmed humans.

Hideous Loon
11-07-2005, 22:21
I say. It appears like the honey that the Tau colonizators poured in your ear about the Greater Good wasn't true, but that the 'Iron Fist' of the Imperium would have been a soft caress compared to the 1984-ish totalitarian society that is the Tau'va.

So you have an army of re-programmed humas, you say? Is it a Tau army or an IG army? If it's a Tau army, which would be the most probable, do you include Gue'vesa'la, which would be as fluffy as a poodle?

LostTemplar
12-07-2005, 00:39
Well, all that I read there was that the Tau, finnaly realised that the Imperium exists for a reason... And sticks together for that same reason. Good Story however.

I had though on writing a bit of fluff on a similar event, along the lines of a "Imperial resistance video feed", which'd portray the Tau as brutal to ensure obedience to their Greater Good. I never bothered, but it is nice to see, that finnaly someone thinks along the same lines.

Good work!

Xisor
12-07-2005, 01:21
My major thing here is the Tau are quite...'stupid'.

How can an Ethereal say: "Like children, they squabble over the tiny resources of this world, and as such, it is our role as the responsible parent to adjust their culture towards the realm of civilization", considering the almighty battles of the Damocles Crusade(which revolutionised the Tau Navy amongst other things, whilst a victory, it was a *very* educational one).

The Tau at this point were still underinformed as to the 'exact' 'heirarchy' of mankind amongst the stars. With little bizzare planets like this and mighty worlds capable of sending the fleet sent in the Damocles Crusade, how could a Tau be any less than completely baffled by this?

That said, otherwise it's...likeable. Except for one more crucial thing.


On many worlds of humanity, men never encounter the Imperium in person. Tales are told of the distant galactic empires, childscaring stories of daemons and hideous aliens all seem far away and almost unreal to inhabitants of many 'would be Imperial' worlds. Worlds on the fringe, of no navigational, strategic or resource-imortance. In some worlds the relgion of the Imperial Creed is mythic and 'unprovable' and almost ridiculed by scholars and academics to small minded to appreciate the grander scale of the Imperium of Man. For such worlds, they are unlikely to see more than a bulkfreighter or a squadron of patrol ships in decades, even centuries, let alone be exposed to the politics, religion, horror and grandeur of the Imperial core-worlds such as the likes of Terra, Armageddon, Mordia, Ultramar, Cadia and others...

In such worlds, humanity flourishes as it always has, under the yoke of tyranny, hard won trials of democracy, human failings and human strengths rise and fall on worlds across the galaxy without any other person batting an eye. A millenia long war for freedom, justice an the mythical tennets of the 'God Emperor' could be won by dedicated bands of followers only for every man woman and child to be abandoned to the fate of the of the encroaching Tyranid Hivefleets as the Imperium knows not the goings on of such a fringe world...


I think it's a bit innacurate to say that it is a requirement as flourishing 'civilised' worlds are known *within* the Imperium. Not every world is the 'Abnetverse' where Inquisitors are a day to day thing, battlefleets are common to see 'ammassed as one' and everyone has Anti-grav spoons. :eyebrows: Humanity flourishes across the Galaxy, many worlds not even knowing the Imperium exists...

I hardly think it is fair to say that this is a 'generic' trait.

It could however be told of the planet that had descended too far and the *only* option was this. Add in rebllions against the Tau'va, resistance to any form of 'outside influence' etc. That'd make it both believable and likeable, and not necesserilly 'the norm'.

Xisor

Philosophical Aun
12-07-2005, 10:00
I say. It appears like the honey that the Tau colonizators poured in your ear about the Greater Good wasn't true, but that the 'Iron Fist' of the Imperium would have been a soft caress compared to the 1984-ish totalitarian society that is the Tau'va.

Personally, I feel there are two schools of thought within Tau Society. Those that wish to change aliens in order for them to fit into the Tau'va, and those that wish to find a role, however small... in which an alien race can serve the Greater Good.

Belesaris is an example of the former, where the Tau are attempting to shape humanity in their own vision. Personally, I also enjoy the entire "judged and found wanting" angle, that humanity recieves. :)

Oh, and the product is never the same as the commercial. True today, and true in the 41st Millenium! ;)


So you have an army of re-programmed humas, you say? Is it a Tau army or an IG army? If it's a Tau army, which would be the most probable, do you include Gue'vesa'la, which would be as fluffy as a poodle?

Its a Tau Army for Epic, and I'm using GZG-s excellent 6mm, UN Hardsuit Marines as my "Fire Warriors".


How can an Ethereal say: "Like children, they squabble over the tiny resources of this world, and as such, it is our role as the responsible parent to adjust their culture towards the realm of civilization", considering the almighty battles of the Damocles Crusade(which revolutionised the Tau Navy amongst other things, whilst a victory, it was a *very* educational one).

Quite frankly, because Belesaris -wasn't- under the yoke of the Imperium, had several tiny nation states in constant warfare with one another. From the view of a galactic empire of more then a hundred worlds, gazing down on a medevial world... would you not concider the Gue'la "underdeveloped" and their conflict petty?


I hardly think it is fair to say that this is a 'generic' trait.

I'm not quite sure I understand the point you're making here Xisor. Belesaris is far from being a "generic" example of planets on the eastern fringe. Granted, it is my belief that uncivilized worlds are more -common- in the eastern fringe, then in Segmentum Solar, but Belesaris...like all planets, is unique.


Add in rebllions against the Tau'va, resistance to any form of 'outside influence' etc. That'd make it both believable and likeable, and not necesserilly 'the norm'.

Indeed! I'm aiming to develop the Individual vs Collective angle far more, with the Tau shaking their heads at what they percieve to be Gue'la stupidity.

"We gave you everything, Gue'la. Your world is protected by our armies and fleet. You live longer, healthier and more productive lives. Where before there was only war, chaos and starvation... there is now order and prosperity. Why, Gue'la... why do you resist what is best for you?"

"But what is it worth if we can make no choices! What value does a longer life have, if I can make no decision. No, you have brought nothing to us, Alien...but despotic rule. Treat us as equals, not children!"

"One day perhaps, Gue'a....one day, when you are capable of making such decisions without destroying yourselves, you will be our equals.

Shas'la, terminate this rebel"

Shas'O K'navi, Interrogation with Anti-socialist.

Xisor
12-07-2005, 12:38
How can an Ethereal say: "Like children, they squabble over the tiny resources of this world, and as such, it is our role as the responsible parent to adjust their culture towards the realm of civilization", considering the almighty battles of the Damocles Crusade(which revolutionised the Tau Navy amongst other things, whilst a victory, it was a *very* educational one).



Quite frankly, because Belesaris -wasn't- under the yoke of the Imperium, had several tiny nation states in constant warfare with one another. From the view of a galactic empire of more then a hundred worlds, gazing down on a medevial world... would you not concider the Gue'la "underdeveloped" and their conflict petty?

My point was that this 'petty nonsense' world where humanity is a disaster is common across the Galaxy, within and without the Imperium, I think it's 'silly' to say that without the influence of the Imperium 'it's clear the Imperium holds humanity together'.

My point on it being that as the fluff put it every human world is having this 'totalitarian' treatment when it is absorbed into the Tau'va. I just don't think thats right. What happens when the Tau encounter a nicely civilised world that is doing fine on it's own? The same?

Xisor

Philosophical Aun
12-07-2005, 13:03
My point was that this 'petty nonsense' world where humanity is a disaster is common across the Galaxy, within and without the Imperium, I think it's 'silly' to say that without the influence of the Imperium 'it's clear the Imperium holds humanity together'.

Ah, now I understand the point you're making!

Assuming that we keep the Brave New World-inspiration, how would your human world look?


My point on it being that as the fluff put it every human world is having this 'totalitarian' treatment when it is absorbed into the Tau'va. I just don't think thats right. What happens when the Tau encounter a nicely civilised world that is doing fine on it's own? The same?

Going back to the "two schools of thought" part, I think they'd allow it to continue...relatively unblemished. The same conflict is also illustrated in the backstory I produced, one group wished to support one of the warlords, which would presumably have created a world where human aristocracy ruled.

But the Tau do seem to be quite confident about their civilization, just look at how they are attempting to change the Kroot.

Adept
12-07-2005, 13:54
Aun: Excellent back-story and inspiration. Just the right mix of detail and... erm... un-detail?

Xisor: I'm not sure what your point is. It's probably my fault, I'm often known to be quite dense. Could you lay it out for me in point form?

Cheitan Shadowless
12-07-2005, 14:31
Aun, this is marvellous work! When's your first novel due for release? ;)

More seriously, it really does tickle my every fancy, because you really capture the true 40K storytelling-style with regards to level of detail, atmosphere and the surprisingly colourful display of variations in Tau opinions on humanity. I mean, it's nice to see that behind the ultra-socialistic unified facade, there's actually a race of individuals with their seperate opinions and attitudes, even if they're strongly united in the common belief of the Tau'va.

I especially enjoy reading the quotations; you have just the right amount of them to bring flavor and life to what could otherwise have become a more dull on-going narrative.

More of this I say, more of this! :cool:

Philosophical Aun
12-07-2005, 18:46
More of this I say, more of this!

Why thank you!

I am, actually, working on a set of short stories to illustrate the "everyday life" of different people in one of the Habs, before moving on to the Army and Fleet of Belesaris.

Khaine's Messenger
12-07-2005, 19:14
While it's a good concept, I'd like to know more about how the Tau feel about what they did now (without calling to mind the idea that the Tau Empire is homogenous and monolithic and of only one mind on any issue), and how other humans under the dominion of the Tau, and humans beyond the dominion of the Tau, might feel about this whole thing. Further, do the Belesaris humans get out much? Do the Tau allow trade with them? Etc.


and the planet now boasts over 8 billion inhabitants, divided into castes, similar to that of the Tau.

Why the Tau model, out of curiosity?


The cultural re-programming that the Tau have subjected the humans to is not without its problems though, and there are several anti-social groups who fight for the freedom to decide their own lives.

That is not a problem with the cultural re-programming itself, as I see it, but more a problem with the entire concept. Problems with cultural re-programming would be the potential for ugly and attrocious abuses of power that are Imperium-like or worse in their fury...which was the entire point of this exercise, although even the Imperium doesn't rule its worlds with such an iron fist (well, some of them do--"IT HAS BEEN THIRTY MINUTES AND NOT ONCE HAVE YOU PRAISED THE EMPEROR!"/Eye of Terror--but you know what I mean)--perhaps the dichotomy between the Imperium's brand of benign neglect/oppression and this world would be a little...interesting to explore?


The lessons learned during the Social Reprogramming are now applied to the newly conquered planets of the Third Expansion.

And those lessons were? I'd like a little more info before you start suggesting this has become Tau standard operating procedure (I can see re-education camps, because the Tau themselves see antisocial behavior as a "sickness," but the constant monitoring stuff is just tacky...).

Further, in what capacity do these humans serve the Greater Good? What do the Tau get from this world? Gue'vesa? It wasn't of much use to the Imperium, apparently, to be worth reconquering....

Philosophical Aun
12-07-2005, 20:40
Thank you for the feedback, Khaine's Messenger!


While it's a good concept, I'd like to know more about how the Tau feel about what they did now.

In my mind, they're still studying the world, changing the indoctrination in various habs to see the long-term effects. They honestly feel that they're doing a good thing, and that some day...even Humans can join the Tau Empire as responsible servants of the Tau'va. Afterall, it would be a shame to change the Sio't meditations again....

Belesaris is only one planet though, and other planets... particulary those with more developed infrastructure and centralized governments are treated differently.


And how other humans under the dominion of the Tau, and humans beyond the dominion of the Tau, might feel about this whole thing.

Following up on the inspiration from dystopic literature... they wouldn't be very aware of the world, other then the utopic Por-caste reporting done and spread as propaganda. Rumours and desperate broadcasts by the Freedom Corps would slightly taint the vision of utopia however.... ;)


Further, do the Belesaris humans get out much? Do the Tau allow trade with them? Etc.

They most certainly do trade with them, although its not a venue I've explored yet. The Belesaris Humans mostly stay on the planet, what is the point of experimenting if you let influences beyond your control affect your subjects!


Why the Tau model, out of curiosity?

The original model was more inspired by Platons Republic, with the Tau being the "enlightened Philosopher Kings...", the humans being Workers and Soldiers. Basically, its the Tau thinking. "Hey, our way is best!", just look at what they're studying in the Kroot.


...perhaps the dichotomy between the Imperium's brand of benign neglect/oppression and this world would be a little...interesting to explore?

Indeed, the Tau Empire is much more "present" then the Imperium. Whilst the Imperium pretty much allows a world to go about its own business, the Tau will break up the very bond between mother and child in their search for the Greater Good.

This, for me... is a way to bring in the "Dark Side" of the Tau, that many feel is lacking.


And those lessons were? I'd like a little more info before you start suggesting this has become Tau standard operating procedure (I can see re-education camps, because the Tau themselves see antisocial behavior as a "sickness," but the constant monitoring stuff is just tacky...).

You're right, it should not have become standard operating procedure. There are many other groupings within the Tau empire who have different visions. As for the monitoring, you don't think that is neccesary? Afterall, it is a constant feature in most dystopic literature. "Big Brother Is Watching You." as well as being an excellent way to sniff out the Freedom Fighters.

Petrosjko
13-07-2005, 09:55
Interestingly enough, the heavy monitoring of the society will also be their best defense against potential incursions by the Ruinous Powers.

Khaine's Messenger
13-07-2005, 16:24
Afterall, it would be a shame to change the Sio't meditations again....

The Sio't meditations were the mere philosophical ditherings of a Water Caste member...were they the mandates of the Ethereal Caste, I imagine the Tau would hold them much closer to their heart. Still, the changes made previously merely removed the "all races have a place in the Tau'va" line...they didn't exactly make a special exception for the Orks/Nids.


Rumours and desperate broadcasts by the Freedom Corps would slightly taint the vision of utopia however.... ;)

Why "Freedom Corps.", by the way? Sounds radically reactionary...after 200 years, I imagine it would have devolved more into a Orwell-patented "possibly nonexistant threat; would you know about it if we didn't tell you?" or into something that would try to bring about a less powerful order, as exists on other planets...?


Basically, its the Tau thinking. "Hey, our way is best!", just look at what they're studying in the Kroot.

Yes, but they have not instilled the doctrines of their Castes into other races just quite yet, and there is little/no evidence that they would work, as the Tau Castes are not just a way of life, but historically established endogamous political groups that were at one point autonomous...changing humans over from the nation-state mentality of loyalty to the idea of castes without borders would be a little sudden, don't you think?


This, for me... is a way to bring in the "Dark Side" of the Tau, that many feel is lacking.

Those who cannot find a dark side in the Tau are obviously not cynical enough. :)


As for the monitoring, you don't think that is neccesary? Afterall, it is a constant feature in most dystopic literature. "Big Brother Is Watching You." as well as being an excellent way to sniff out the Freedom Fighters.

Oh, it's fine...I just think it's a bit of an overreaction on the part of the Tau, as not even the Imperium is that harsh (usually). Still, the Tau do have their own version...if only in the Fire Caste...so they have some experience in this regard. "No Tau is ever alone." :evilgrin:

salty
13-07-2005, 16:38
I liked it, but I have to agree with Xisor. The Tau are young and have really only encountered Imperial colonies as far as planets go. Hence, the popular consensus amongst the (or at was the popular consensus) that humans were weak, a small race.

Then they feel the full force of an Imperial Crusade and realise that the Imperium is a much more powerful entity than they had thought.

I personally don't like the idea of Tau incorporating humans into their armies, other than Imperial traitor forces. The Tau would surely feel that the only course of action against the Imperium is war. To try and "re-programme" humans would be a bad idea; they would simply encounter resistance. It is after all, human nature to resist.

But nice bit of fluff there ;)

Salty :)

Philosophical Aun
13-07-2005, 18:46
Why "Freedom Corps.", by the way? Sounds radically reactionary...after 200 years, I imagine it would have devolved more into a Orwell-patented "possibly nonexistant threat; would you know about it if we didn't tell you?" or into something that would try to bring about a less powerful order, as exists on other planets...?

The main reason for the Freedom Fighters is because uniformity and cohesion is boring. Conflicts are always more fun.


Yes, but they have not instilled the doctrines of their Castes into other races just quite yet, and there is little/no evidence that they would work, as the Tau Castes are not just a way of life, but historically established endogamous political groups that were at one point autonomous...changing humans over from the nation-state mentality of loyalty to the idea of castes without borders would be a little sudden, don't you think?

Perhaps so, but would you not think it feasible that the Tau spread their caste-based society, like the West is trying to encourage Democracy? I mean, its their way of life... and the world is an attempt to mold humans in the image of the Tau


Still, the Tau do have their own version...if only in the Fire Caste...so they have some experience in this regard. "No Tau is ever alone."

Indeed, the cameras are mainly there for the right "feel" of the world. Dystopia only works if people really -are- unhappy, afterall.


I liked it, but I have to agree with Xisor. The Tau are young and have really only encountered Imperial colonies as far as planets go. Hence, the popular consensus amongst the (or at was the popular consensus) that humans were weak, a small race.

One has to wonder though, given that the Tau would have encountered Rogue Traders, merchants, Navy ships on deep patrol... would these ships and the people traveling with them have information on the size and power of the Imperium?


To try and "re-programme" humans would be a bad idea; they would simply encounter resistance. It is after all, human nature to resist.

Indeed, hence the insurrection. :)

Anyway, I thank you all for your comments. Now, I'm off to type a bit more.

FutureEmperor
14-07-2005, 01:26
A question that i have is.

Are some of the people in the habs happy about this system?

Also i was just wondering why you have it that children are seperated from their parents in order to join caste, it doesnt fit with how the tau eventually fit into thier caste. Most likely i would think that individual families would be seperated into a caste depending on thier history (i.e. history of military servicemen, fire, history of working as labourers, earth. History of owning a family business, water... and so on. And after the caste have been decided then it would slowly be encouraged, then prefered, then enforced and then mandatory to marry inside your own caste, this way the natural evolution would occur (with ample education and growth suplements being provided where they are needed ;) to sort of help nature along.)


Also what is the nature of the freedom forces (well - equiped and hiding out, or just word of mouth waiting for the opportune time to strike.) ?

Shinzui
14-07-2005, 02:08
If you look into the inquisitor Water caste fluff Tau take create improtance in family and more intrestingly into bloodlines.

Also I disagree with the fact that humans would divide themselves into castes. Tau are in castes because they are essentially different species. The difference is bigger then the difference between us and apes/pigs (which is very small). The Tau seem to treat a species as a caste in themselves and task them with whatever their species are the best at.

For the most part species are left entirely to govern themselves. Kroot and Nicassar seem to both construct their own vessels (and in the case of the Kroot mantain their own fleets of ships) and have little imput by the Tau. It seems unusual the Tau would put such effort to humans (such as having wars with xenos races and having trouble integrating them is not an unusual problem accoriding to fluff). As long as they contribute their tithe to the Tau Empire they seem entirely unconcerned by their true loyalty to the Greater Good.

Also having social reprogramming seems a little extreme, especially when Water caste have such an ability as to convince a drug addict to give up his addiction and even attack his supplier. Such persuasive ability seems to be overlooked by people.

Philosophical Aun
14-07-2005, 09:54
Also i was just wondering why you have it that children are seperated from their parents in order to join caste,

The main reason is that the State wishes to influence the children, rather then the parents. There is a reason for why totalitarian states tend to have prominent youth programs!

As for why the castes? Well, I do suppose that is one part that could be dropped.


Are some of the people in the habs happy about this system?

I'd say yes. With a slight amount of anti-depressant drugs poured into the water-system, constant propaganda from birth... I suppose the majority of the people are "satisfied", if not happy.


As long as they contribute their tithe to the Tau Empire they seem entirely unconcerned by their true loyalty to the Greater Good.

Here I disagree, afterall... the Tau are trying to modify all races that they encounter. They do medical tests on the Kroot, hoping that they can "learn by example" and join the Tau'va.

I sincerely don't think they'd settle for trade and tithes. Of course, that would be an excellent startingpoint... in order to bring the humans further into the Greater Good.

I'm curious though, rather then discussing my views on how the humans within the Tau Empire function, what are your opinions?

Shinzui
14-07-2005, 21:09
I sincerely don't think they'd settle for trade and tithes. Of course, that would be an excellent startingpoint... in order to bring the humans further into the Greater Good.

They do, see the fluff 'allies, subjects, & mercenaries'.

Philosophical Aun
14-07-2005, 22:10
They do, see the fluff 'allies, subjects, & mercenaries'.

I am well aware of what the backround says, hence the word "startingpoint". :)

But is it really your opinion that the Tau would allow a race to keep about its business, without attempting to correct them? If so, why attempt to civilize the Kroot?

Shinzui
14-07-2005, 23:00
But is it really your opinion that the Tau would allow a race to keep about its business, without attempting to correct them? If so, why attempt to civilize the Kroot?

I haven't seen any indication the Tau have attempted to civilize the kroot, their eating habits maybe but that is more because the Tau find the practice repulsive rather than they are attempting to make them follow their eating habits. Following the greater good doesn't mean they have to become a carbon copy of the Tau's life style as the Greater good is an idiology not a doctrine.

If it was a starting point why allow the Kroot to build their own fleets?, have their own technology?. As demonstrated in several pieces of fluff the Tau aren't even keeping track of their ships or armed forces. The Kroot have been a part of the Tau Empire for a very long time yet the Tau have made no progress to change them or even attempt to control them.

Philosophical Aun
15-07-2005, 15:10
Following the greater good doesn't mean they have to become a carbon copy of the Tau's life style as the Greater good is an idiology not a doctrine.

I see your point here. I'm basing my views on the Letter from Pech story, where I thought it clear that they did want to change the Kroot, especially their eatinghabits. No matter, our views most certainly differ.



If it was a starting point why allow the Kroot to build their own fleets?,

I didn't think the Kroot did build new fleets. Afterall, with the culture-shift, no new technology is being developed by the Kroot, nor do they build ships. I'll admit its been a while since I read that piece of backround information though.