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View Full Version : How important are Heavy Weapons in a guard army



Sir Phobos
24-12-2006, 22:21
I know this sounds like a stupid question but I was just wondering how important they were? I am was looking into starting a death korps of krieg army among many others but they thing that throws the cost way up there is the fact that 3 heavy weapons costs ~73 dollars. I was wondering is it going to kill my IG army if I dont have like tons of heavy weapons?

EVIL INC
24-12-2006, 22:28
Thats the bad part about using non-plastic models. :(
Without thier heavy weapons, gaurd are a lot less effective.

t-tauri
24-12-2006, 22:35
The Thudd gun (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/quadlcrew.htm) and artillery crew (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/dkkartcrew.htm) at 9 each plus plastic heavy weapons would be a cheaper option. Use the kneeling guys as gun firers and the standing bodies as the loader. You could do three heavy weapons for 25 or so, less if you can trade for the guns from an IG player or bits seller.

Kegluneq
24-12-2006, 22:35
Depends. What ratio of ablative wounds to your heavy weapons do you want?

But, yeah. Collecting a DCoK army and worrying about cost are pretty much mutually exclusive. If you're doing the first, the second had better not be a concern, because your wallet will hurt.

(You will need at least three.)

boardbox
24-12-2006, 22:56
I'd say heavy weapons are very important to guard.

I've always thought that the strength of the Imperial Guard came from it's numbers, tanks, and number of heavy weapons it could field. Gotta make up for arming men with flashlights and t-shirts somehow.

schoolcormorant
24-12-2006, 23:04
yesm HW are very important, in my first and only to date game with my Cadians, against Necrons - yes :rolleyes: i used all my hW to great effect, the autocannons double shot particularly effective
SC

FraustyTheSnowman
24-12-2006, 23:15
Tanks and sentinels can make up some of the difference, but alot of it depends on what armies your fighting. Lasguns against marines don't work out so well, so if your fighting lots of powered armor your going to want heavy bolters and autocannons. As stated earlier though, picking up some plastic heavy weapon squads and just using the DK crew should work pretty well. Also, if you can find them, steal legion look close enough to DK that if your not too picky they might work. Metal minis are pricy, but not as much as resin.

Slaaneshi Slave
24-12-2006, 23:40
I thought a Guard squad consisted of a special weapon, a heavy weapon, and 8 laser targetors...

Chaos and Evil
24-12-2006, 23:40
If you are concerned that you won't be able to afford enough heavy weapons fo r a Death Korps army... you shouldn't be collecting Death Korps.

In essence, every Guard Squad should have a Heavy Weapon.

Steel_Legion
24-12-2006, 23:54
guard heavy weapons are very important, the reason you take the squad is for teh heavy weapons... I agree Chaos and Evil, both statements, but then the death korps... so beautiful!

Baneboss
25-12-2006, 00:22
As long as IG cant have second special weapon (except swamp doctrine), heavy weapons will be essential.

Sniper Kelly
25-12-2006, 00:51
Heavy weapons are useful, but you don't need them for every squad. I think that people tend to rely on them a little bit too much, especially guard armies, and they end up losing mobility due to having to stay still to fire them.

My own guard army relies mainly on vehicle based weapons for support, with some squads carrying missile launchers (I find that lascannons are too expensive to be worthwhile squad weapons anyway).

ss_cherubael
25-12-2006, 01:45
There are several schools of thought on HW and imperial guard. The first and by far the majority suggest that every squad capable of taking a HW does and then throw some more in with the command squad. This type of combat doctine is very effective with guard due to the low pts and the fact that they can out shoot at range any army in the game for a fraction of the pts and give them a doctrine like sharpshooters and they become a very nasty army indeed.

The second school of thought says that guard are still a viable army with only a minimal number of heavy weapons. This type of army relys on either a massive number of troops (such as the conscript army from hell) or they are very specialised and tend to use special weapons to fill the roles traditionally allocated to heavy weapons (storm trooper army with hardened vets with melta weapons and so on).

A typical Death Korp army usually follows the first doctrine unless it is a storm troop army. I think that if you are worried about the price tag of the heavy weapons i wouldnt worry about them that much maybe buy a few and have some dedicated HW squads and make up for it with some thudd guns and heavy mortars later on when you are doing your Heavy support choices and you have more money to spend on the stuff.

Vaktathi
25-12-2006, 02:08
I know this sounds like a stupid question but I was just wondering how important they were? I am was looking into starting a death korps of krieg army among many others but they thing that throws the cost way up there is the fact that 3 heavy weapons costs ~73 dollars. I was wondering is it going to kill my IG army if I dont have like tons of heavy weapons?

If you want a "cheap" DK army, the closest you will get really is a mechanized Stormtrooper/Grenadier army. If you do this, you can get the Heavy Weapons from the Chimera's (heavy flamers, heavy bolters, multilasers, and autocannons in addition to pintle heavy stubbers) and have a relativley small number of actual infantry you have to buy. You can then add in some high STR/lowAP weapons like Lascannon on Leman Russes along with their cannons.

That's pretty much the list I am making right now, it relies alot more on the vehicles and the ST's special weapons than the standard IG massed infantry guns to get the job done, and is vulnerable to different things, but that's about the cheapest way to do a DKoK army and still incorporate lots of heavy weapons.

FraustyTheSnowman
30-12-2006, 11:42
Along the same lines would be DK armored compony, getting the grenadier models for your elite stormtroopers and regular infantry as armored fist. Lots of heavy weapons with all the vehicles, and a minimum of expensive resin bits. Though, vehicles are kinda pricey themselves, so maybe it's not exactly what's being looked for...

TCUTTER
30-12-2006, 12:46
look at it this way, resin heavy weapon teams are marginarly more expensive then metal, but much higher quality, i mean, if your desperate you could buy a steel legion lascannon team, as they'd blend in, imo the steel legion are the best guard i own...yet

Frodo34x
30-12-2006, 15:36
It does depend on the army. For example. if you play a drop troops army (like I did back when I played guard), they arn't very important at all.

With footslogger guard though, I always prefered only using heavy weapons in the heavy weapon squads, allowing my foot troops to march forwards.

Baneboss
30-12-2006, 16:59
If you like mobility and still want to take HW try using Slave Levies and Abhumans doctrines. You get Slow and Purposeful and Feel no Pain for 20 pts. Search for them in UK WD 303.

Hicks
30-12-2006, 17:34
To me they are the most important part of my army. Look at it this way, if you can shoot them with lasguns, you better be shooting at something that's easy to kill or otherwhise you're dead next turn. Of course there are special weapons, but those should be used in special weapon squads or with vets.

The boyz
30-12-2006, 18:15
I agree with what most people have said, heavy weapons are generally quite important when it comes to using Imperial Guard. I would probably be tempted to use the Steel Legion heavy weapons teams if cost is an issue.

xibo
30-12-2006, 21:50
heavy weapons are not all that important that you can say you can't play guard without them. I'm currently trying out all moving guard with loads of special weapons and i noticed i can field a fifth more guardsmen at the same points without hw. MeQ simply don't show enough respect to things that dont ignore their armour nor do shoot thousand times with high strength ( like multilasers, heavy bolters, heavy stubguns ... kimeras for short ). 1000 points is 120 guardsmen at least. that is approximately 5 flamers(conscripts), 10 meltas and 100+ S3AP- shots. Plus all your army has LD10 of cause ;)
Just avoid playnig against tourny IW without lasplas ;)

Spook101
02-01-2007, 18:03
Having heavy weapons in all squads cuts down on mobility. I just have a few squads attached to my HQ.

greenmtvince
02-01-2007, 23:30
I play Elysian Drop Troops. Heavy weapons aren't needed. Even in games where I don't deep strike. As a matter of fact, the lack of heavy weapons in my squads encourages me to just keep moving forward.