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View Full Version : I want to play Ulthwe, but...



Adeptus Laziness
25-12-2006, 22:14
Man, I am ready to start buying for my Eldar army, but I need to decide on what paints I need, i.e. I need to settle on a craftworld. I am not too keen on making up my own craftworld, as I see no point without traits or doctrines for the eldar. I really really like Ulthwe, but I am not that excited about warlocks. They don't find a way into any of my theoretic battle plans, except for accompanying wraithguard as spiritseers.

If I used their paint scheme, but didn't have a gaggle of guardians, would I be crucified? It's not against the rules or anything, but would tournies dock me points for not having a 'fluffy' army? What if I came up with the background for a specialized strikeforce of Ulthwe Eldar?

Another issue is that I love aspect warriors. The rules do not impact this, but can I justify Ulthwe fielding an army with more aspects than usual?

Forbiddenknowledge
25-12-2006, 22:46
Not at all, its up to you. You can play them any way you want, say that its the aspect side which you don't normally see.


I had this very same trouble when returning to eldar, but I decided rather than play unfluffily, I would make my own.

Grand Warlord
25-12-2006, 23:05
I agree.

If you like Ulthwe but don't want a lot of warlocks, it would be simplest to just not take the warlocks and stay with the Ulthwe Craftworld.

stompzilla
25-12-2006, 23:07
Agreed. My army is Ulthwe and has been since 2nd ED (Before they made up the diabolical craftworld eldar dex) and i don't have a single guardian in my list.

Meticulous
25-12-2006, 23:15
I'm about to start Ulthwe as well; I solved that problem by saying that in the wake of the Black Crusade, the Craftworld saw a surge in its Aspect Warriors (mostly Dire Avengers and Dark Reapers), what with the veterans of the Black Guardian corps and Maugan Ra's influence.

Ah, the joys of flexible fluff.

Adeptus Laziness
25-12-2006, 23:39
Awesome. Thank you gentlemen. Not one discouraging comment. I appreciate your support!

osickx
26-12-2006, 02:00
well, good on you for choosing a craftworld with a great background. of cousre you should pick whatever troop choice you like and want to play with. its your arm and your money, you just happened to have picked he coolest colour scheme!!

if you want to keep some fluff, take a farseer bodygaurd (seer council). you will find it to be an excellent HQ, and still fluffy

happy Monkeigh hunting!

Adeptus Laziness
26-12-2006, 02:45
I'm opening a thread on warlock bodyguards. I started to here, but its a different topic! :P

MrLiy
26-12-2006, 04:33
If I was to say that a particular set of aspects fits Ulthwe
I'd say its Dire Avengers, Reapers, and Banshees...but dont give up on guardians theyre cheap bodies for an army of elites.

NightLord
26-12-2006, 06:32
Also. You could play it as ulthwe with friends and say it is biel tan in tournaments because color schemes are not the end all be all.

Bregalad
26-12-2006, 12:17
If you say that you want to play an Ulthwé army then you need warlocks, guardians and very few aspect warriors. That's what Ulthwé armies look like.

If you want to play your own craftworld that happens to have a similar paint scheme to Ulthwé, that is fine. But if you pretend to play Ulthwé and actively give a damn about every background information, many people knowing the 40k universe and Eldar will be annoyed. It's like doing a Catachan army with snow-covered bases.

Nebëhr Gudahtt
26-12-2006, 12:42
Muscular guys in wifebeaters in the snow? A Cliffhanger army!

dave is the best
26-12-2006, 12:50
Im doing a eldar army using a modified ulthwe colour scheme and alot of aspect warriors.

Dave

static grass
26-12-2006, 13:13
Man, I am ready to start buying for my Eldar army, but I need to decide on what paints I need, i.e. I need to settle on a craftworld. I am not too keen on making up my own craftworld, as I see no point without traits or doctrines for the eldar. I really really like Ulthwe, but I am not that excited about warlocks. They don't find a way into any of my theoretic battle plans, except for accompanying wraithguard as spiritseers.

If I used their paint scheme, but didn't have a gaggle of guardians, would I be crucified? It's not against the rules or anything, but would tournies dock me points for not having a 'fluffy' army? What if I came up with the background for a specialized strikeforce of Ulthwe Eldar?

Another issue is that I love aspect warriors. The rules do not impact this, but can I justify Ulthwe fielding an army with more aspects than usual?

Fluff is in the eye of the beholder. Ulthwe have access to all of the aspects so why not use them? If you lead your army with an Autarch I see no problem. afterall a 1500 points army can not possibly represent the entire fighting strength of a craftworld so what is the problem? If you want to be "fluffy" then write a background story surrounding the circumstances of the force.

Remember it is science fiction so if someone says "YOU must have warlocks" then they are wrong. It is game, it's your money, it's your time and effort so do what you want and have fun :)

rardiv
26-12-2006, 13:31
On the "gaggle of guardians" issue, I just want to say that guardians also, in a way, include guardian jetbikes. So if you want to stay somewhat fluffy and still have some more options than just plain old guardians, those guys fit the bill.

Adeptus Laziness
26-12-2006, 14:58
How about using some storm guardians to form a speed bump in front of my Eldrad that I will have in the army? They aren't that badass anymore, given the loss of the Black Guardians. :cries: But give them warlocks with enhance, and they might no do that bad.

pantera
26-12-2006, 23:37
Aaaah, the seemingly neverending Ulthwe arguement (sorry, Ive been without a computer for a couple weeks). I love this topic because you never have fence sitters... there are those saying that the fluff fully states in black and white that Ulthwe must be 90% guardians, with lots a seers, and next to no aspects, and theres those (typically old school Ulthwe players) that say thats b^*%$*^t. Im for the latter. Going light on the psykers to me is a little unfluffy, but its all good. Thats the glory of the new edition, you can say its a strike force thats tailored away from the norm. But seriously its been said again and again, lots of guardians was a 3rd edtion thing. Having played Ulthwe for almost 15 years now, before 3rd the only mention of lots of guardians was in epic. So what it all boils down to really, is do what you want. Its your army. Dont let people tell you that Ulthwe HAS to be guardians and warlocks.


Oh yea, I meant to mention, as a speed bump storm guardians will make a good choice. Bear in mind though, more than likely if its just to stall, they will die, try not to have any delusions of grandeur here. Unless you are using them in tandem with another unit, or assaulting a unit thats had the crap shot out of them, chances are they wont last.

Adeptus Laziness
27-12-2006, 21:07
Thanks for the word on the storm guardians. I'll stick with the Dire Avengers instead.

CrazyHeeb
27-12-2006, 21:23
Maybe someone can help me out as I've never played Eldar.

From the people on this forum and my personal experience, Ulthwe seem to be by far the most popular Craftworld. Why?

If you're not going to attempt to recreate their description from the fluff, why name your army Ulthwe? What's the advantage to it being an "Ulthwe" army?

Is it just the color scheme that looks cool? Wouldn't it be easy to just come up with a new name and avoid the whole argument all together?

Captain Micha
27-12-2006, 22:02
heh. as a future (very near future.. I dont wanna buy my cron battle force yet cries.) dar player. I say go for it.

I don't think the craftworlds have such a heaping helping of powerful psykers in their population that -all- uthwe armies are warlock heavy and guardian heavy. Plus black guardians can be rep pretty well with das. they just "count as" das.

Same with sam hain(sp I hate that craftworld name wise. period) no way they have -that- many bikers lol

Inyaden now there is a good chance that there is not enough real population left that you could have too many "non fluff" Inyadens. but still possible.

My eldar are probably going to be either 1 from a craftworld or 2 all come from dead craftworlds and live in a city hidden in the webway. (heavy harlies here. like 2 squads worth in a 750 pt game lol) what are my aspect warriors? I dunno. I just know what they count as for sure. and no I don't have firedragons, howling banshees, nor striking scorpions in my plans lol. hawks, spiders, das on the other hand. there be a good possibility of that.

And whats wrong with catachans on snow bases rofl. they just "count as' cats rulewise lol. freakish year. It somehow snowed on that death hole and cats are so tough they don't need to dress warm!

Adeptus Laziness
27-12-2006, 22:51
heh. as a future (very near future.. I dont wanna buy my cron battle force yet cries.) dar player. I say go for it.

I don't think the craftworlds have such a heaping helping of powerful psykers in their population that -all- uthwe armies are warlock heavy and guardian heavy. Plus black guardians can be rep pretty well with das. they just "count as" das.

Same with sam hain(sp I hate that craftworld name wise. period) no way they have -that- many bikers lol

Inyaden now there is a good chance that there is not enough real population left that you could have too many "non fluff" Inyadens. but still possible.

My eldar are probably going to be either 1 from a craftworld or 2 all come from dead craftworlds and live in a city hidden in the webway. (heavy harlies here. like 2 squads worth in a 750 pt game lol) what are my aspect warriors? I dunno. I just know what they count as for sure. and no I don't have firedragons, howling banshees, nor striking scorpions in my plans lol. hawks, spiders, das on the other hand. there be a good possibility of that.

And whats wrong with catachans on snow bases rofl. they just "count as' cats rulewise lol. freakish year. It somehow snowed on that death hole and cats are so tough they don't need to dress warm!

I'd argue that Catachans are great at fighting on any Deathworld, not just a jungle planet. Deathworld include arctic wastelands, right? Well, why wouldn't there be a unit of Deathworld Veterans specializing in them? Or maybe a certain frozen planet about to fall to the enemy puts out a call to all available regiments.

It's your army. Your money. Do what you want. Arguments only last as long as you let them carry on.

I don't want to make up my own craftworld. I like Uthwe. The rules don't reflect Uthwe's preoccupation with psykers, and Uthwe does have aspect warriors. They just have a lot of warlocks, and this detracts from the amount of time that warriors have to devote to other paths. Throw in a warlock seer council and you've got it.

Some would say that I should throw in a buttload of guardians, but they suck now and I'd reason that even Uthwe took a blow to its guardians after depleting them in countless strike force raids during the Eye of Terror campaign. Less guardians means its time to use those aspects again.

William Moran
27-12-2006, 23:17
Dude, most of your army will be aspect warriors, why do you care what craftworld they are from? Paint the guys n girls that aint aspects i.e. the tanks the colour you fink is cool.

Adeptus Laziness
28-12-2006, 02:58
Dude, most of your army will be aspect warriors, why do you care what craftworld they are from? Paint the guys n girls that aint aspects i.e. the tanks the colour you fink is cool.

Eh, it helps me give the army it's personality. I don't want to make up my own craftworld. Lots of reasons why in the posts above.

Zealot
28-12-2006, 05:30
I think the idea Captain Micha brought up would work best to balance your fluff/aspect conundrum: use Dire Avengers, but just paint them black and call them Black Guardians. I started collecting a Ulthwe army during the whole Craftworld Eldar thing, so I happen to have a billion-and-a-half guardiants that now really aren't that useful. So what am I going to do? Use them as Black Guardians that "count as" Dire Avengers. The way I see it, no one should complain about fluff that way. Plus, if you take two squads of Black Guardians/Dire Avengers, then you will have plenty of "Guardians" in your army and it will look more balanced when accompanied by the other Aspects you will be including.

Bregalad
28-12-2006, 11:04
Of course you can do the army you want and can name it as you like. But your question was about the reaction of other players, who are also allowed to dislike your army/name combination. If I get you right, you like the Biel Tann army best plus the Ulthwé painting scheme, i.e. ,many aspects, few/no psychers.
If you take some warlocks/farseers plus Dire Avengers as standards plus one or two other aspects, that is within fluff limits and nobody will complain. Just if you play Biel Tann and pretend it being Ulthwé, some players will be annoyed and you have to face that.

Ravenous
28-12-2006, 11:11
Thats the great part (and some times hair pullingly frustrating about it) that you can make every kind of army under one banner.

Like the ghost world Alaitoc. Or ranger heavy Saim hann. Or Seer council Iyanden. Or use Yriel in Ulthwe.

For a background person its liable to make their head explode.

Rlyehable
28-12-2006, 11:50
Some would say that I should throw in a buttload of guardians, but they suck now and I'd reason that even Uthwe took a blow to its guardians after depleting them in countless strike force raids during the Eye of Terror campaign. Less guardians means its time to use those aspects again.

Or after EOT, many of the Black Guardians decided to take the next step down the Path of the Warrior. They joined the Aspect shrines.

While I would encourage you to make your own craftworld, I understand you're not wanting to do this. In friendly games, there should be little problem. However, you asked about a tournament environment. In a tournament environment, you may be penalized as 'unfluffy'. You make your choices and live with the consequences (just like with the rest of life). :)

Arhalien
28-12-2006, 11:59
From the people on this forum and my personal experience, Ulthwe seem to be by far the most popular Craftworld. Why?


Easiest colour scheme to do, people beign lazy by just spraying, drybrushing and adding some bone :p

It may also be because Ulthwe was powerful in the old craftworlds book, with bs4 guardians and the 'seer council of doom'

Adeptus Laziness
28-12-2006, 21:02
Hmmm... Well what do you guys think of the craftworld Altansar? Their descendants were pulled out of the Warp by Maugan Ra, correct? They aren't much trusted by the other Eldar as a result. But is there any word on the rest of their story? Did they have any particular tactics? I have the idea of a lot of aspect warriors, a necessity of the craftworld to survive. I could even make them badguys, tainted by millenia in the Eye... But then it wouldn't be appropriate to take Eldrad.:cries: Unless I make up my own 'counts as' character, but I don't know how the tournament culture would take that, either...