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Featherbolt
27-12-2006, 19:29
Hello.

I don't have game experience yet, and I thought about starting with a simple 1000 points Skaven force. I thought about this one:

Skaven Force 1000 Pts - Skaven Army

1 Warlock Engineer @ 105 Pts
Upgraded Warp-Energy Condenser; Warp Blades; Warplock Pistol
#1 Warpstone Token [0]
Dispel Scroll [25]

5 Warplock Jezzail teams @ 100 Pts

4 Giant Rat Packs @ 120 Pts

26 Clanrats @ 145 Pts
Standard; Musician

25 Clanrats @ 140 Pts
Standard; Musician

20 Clanrat Slaves @ 40 Pts

3 Plague Rat Swarms @ 195 Pts

1 Assassin @ 155 Pts
Bands of Power [25]
Warpstone Amulet [25]

Casting Pool: 3

Dispel Pool: 3

Models in Army: 109
Total Army Cost: 1000


Any help or hints will be appreciated.

squeekenator
27-12-2006, 20:22
Read Stickies. (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76)
Also, it helps it you categorize your units (hero, core, etc.)


1 Warlock Engineer @ 105 Pts
Upgraded Warp-Energy Condenser; Warp Blades; Warplock Pistol
#1 Warpstone Token [0]
Dispel Scroll [25]

Not bad, but you're much better off with a cheiftain for your general. That extra point of leadership works wonders.


5 Warplock Jezzail teams @ 100 Pts

4 Giant Rat Packs @ 120 Pts

26 Clanrats @ 145 Pts
Standard; Musician

25 Clanrats @ 140 Pts
Standard; Musician

20 Clanrat Slaves @ 40 Pts

This is all good-good. I recommend some night runners if you can find the points for them, however.


3 Plague Rat Swarms @ 195 Pts

1 Assassin @ 155 Pts
Bands of Power [25]
Warpstone Amulet [25]

Remember that cheiftain and those night runners I talked about? Well, here is where you get the points. These 4 models are MASSIVE point sinks, taking up over a third of your points, and, put simply, won't do much. Assassins are overpriced, and there's nothing you can do about it. Getting a 51 point cheiftain with heavy armour and a shield and a plague priest with a censer and that amulet would be a much better way to spend 155 points, as they come in at around 150pts, IIRC, will pack much more punch, are two models instead of one, which really counts when someone points a cannon at them, and give a leadership boost to your army. Finally, the individual guys are more survivable. Both of them together are even harder to kill.
Plague rats are a no-no. The point of rat swarms are that they can tie up big enemies like giants effectively. At 1000 points, you should be rejoicing if you see a giant on your opponent's side. It means you can brush aside their infantry and then kill the giant with warp-lightning while your slaves, with your general within 12" but outside of terror range, tie it up. So don't bring plague rats to the table ever, and don't bring over 2 rat swarms at under 1000pts. Instead, grab two units of 10 night runners with additional hand weapons or throwing stars, whichever tickles your fancy, and then a single vanilla rat swarm. Use it to tie up big blocks of enemies. That little investment can still tie up the average human unit for 4 turns (4 attacks on it, 2.7 hit, 1.35 wound), which is more than enough. So, with these changes, it should look like this:

Heroes
Warlock Engineer, upgraded warp-energy condenser, warp blades, warplock pistol, dispel scroll - 105pts
Cheiftain, heavy armour, shield - 51pts
Plague priest, plague censer, warpstone amulet - 101 (IIRC)pts

Core
26 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 145pts
25 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 140pts
20 Slaves - 40pts
4 Giant Rat packs - 120pts
1 Rat Swarm - 45pts
10 Night Runners, additional hand weapons - 70pts
10 Night Runners, throwing stars - 70pts

Special
5 Warplock Jezzails - 100pts

Power Dice: 3
Dispel Dice: 3

Model Count: 128
Total Army Cost: 1985 (IIRC about plague priest cost)

Featherbolt
27-12-2006, 21:16
When building the list I tried to keep in mind the possibility of facing tough, strong units, such as Chosen Chaos Knights. I tried to add several tools to the army that can deal high damage to such units, and do it fast.
The huge amount of poisonous attacks, combined with the high speed, appealed me to take the Plague rats. As you said, I'll rarely face a Giant or a big monster that I simply need to engage in combat to stop it's advance. I don't take the swarms for this purpose. What I do intend to take advantage of with the Plague rats is the incredible number of attacks you get to do when you charge, all are poisoned. That way they can take out most units on a charge, nearly regardless of their T. They also retain the high number of attacks as long as they don't suffer 5 wounds, which comes in handy alot (IMHO). They're unbreakable, which is vital when facing strong opponents, and they do not force Panic tests when I finally lose them.
If I know I'm about to face an army that consists only of small, low T, low S models, the Nightrunners might be better.

The Assassin is probably better left for greater battles. I think my close-combat hero doesn't have to reach the enemy that fast, so Mv 5 should not be as much of a disadvantage. Also the number of T 6 models my assassin is going to assassin is not very high in 1000 points. So I'll take your advice and switch him with a Plague Priest.

Now I have another question: Should I take the Chieftain as a Battle Standard Bearer? An example list:

Heroes
Warlock Engineer, upgraded warp-energy condenser, warp blades, warplock pistol, dispel scroll - 105pts
Cheiftain, heavy armour, war banner - 99pts
Plague priest, plague censer, warpstone amulet - 111pts

Core
29 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 160pts
25 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 140pts
Ratling Gun - 60 pts
20 Slaves - 40pts
3 Giant Rat packs - 90pts
3 Plague Rat Swarms - 195pts

Power Dice: 3
Dispel Dice: 3

Model Count: 102
Total Army Cost: 1000

squeekenator
28-12-2006, 10:03
When building the list I tried to keep in mind the possibility of facing tough, strong units, such as Chosen Chaos Knights. I tried to add several tools to the army that can deal high damage to such units, and do it fast.

Fair enough.


The huge amount of poisonous attacks, combined with the high speed, appealed me to take the Plague rats. As you said, I'll rarely face a Giant or a big monster that I simply need to engage in combat to stop it's advance. I don't take the swarms for this purpose. What I do intend to take advantage of with the Plague rats is the incredible number of attacks you get to do when you charge, all are poisoned. That way they can take out most units on a charge, nearly regardless of their T.

Forgive me if I'm drawing nonexistant conclusions between two statements, but are you saying that you can wipe out a unit of chaos warriors on the charge with plague rats? Let's do some maths.

15 attacks hitting on 4+ = 7.5 hits. Poisoning on 6s means 1.5 poisoned wounds. 7.5 hits wounding on... 6s. Another 1.25 wounds. So they suffer a terrifying 2.75 wounds, before armour saves. Assuming a 3+ save, a third of that bounced off (*ting!*), so you get 0.91 kills. One whole chaos warrior. W00t.


Now I have another question: Should I take the Chieftain as a Battle Standard Bearer? An example list:

Ah yes. I forgot about battle standards. Yes, that's a good idea.

So, other than my war on your plague rats, good list. I notice you've picked up a rattler there. Have fun with it!

Featherbolt
28-12-2006, 10:46
Okay, that mistake with the Chaos Knights came from my inexperience. I only thought about high Toughness, and totally forgot about armour saves. The swarms do have no way around good armour saves. Jezzail are better for this, because they're S 6, right?

Is this list better?

Heroes
Warlock Engineer, upgraded warp-energy condenser, warp blades, warplock pistol, dispel scroll - 105pts
Cheiftain, heavy armour, war banner - 99pts
Plague priest, plague censer, warpstone amulet - 111pts

Core
30 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 165pts
25 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 140pts
Ratling Gun - 60 pts
20 Slaves - 40pts
3 Giant Rat packs - 90pts
10 Nightrunners, extra hand weapon - 70pts

Special
3 Warplock Jezzails - 60pts
3 Warplock Jezzails - 60pts

Power Dice: 3
Dispel Dice: 3

Model Count: 116
Total Army Cost: 1000

DeathlessDraich
28-12-2006, 12:36
The list looks good and will work.
Just 2 suggestions:
Combine the jezzails into 1 unit - less susceptible to panic.
You used Bands of Power in you first list - you could still use one in this list by reducing 30 Clanrats to 25. It's effective if not cast in the earlier rounds and unleashed at the right moment to destroy WarAltars, chariots etc.

Featherbolt
28-12-2006, 17:21
Combining the Jezzails - In order to make them more useful, I decided to divide them into two units, so that I can field them on opposite sides of the deployment zone. That way I won't suffer much if LoS is blocked for a few models. Moreover, when one Jezzail unit is charged, it's doomed for good. I prefer having half the Jezzails still functioning.

Band of Power - On whom? The warlock engineer isn't going to be in battle (hopefully), the Chieftain is carrying the War Banner, and it will be a crazy overkill to give the Plague Priest S 10. It will also give my opponent more VPs due to the Warpstone Amulet.

mightygnoblar
28-12-2006, 19:42
Okay, that mistake with the Chaos Knights came from my inexperience. I only thought about high Toughness, and totally forgot about armour saves. The swarms do have no way around good armour saves. Jezzail are better for this, because they're S 6, right?

Is this list better?

Heroes
Warlock Engineer, upgraded warp-energy condenser, warp blades, warplock pistol, dispel scroll - 105pts
Cheiftain, heavy armour, war banner - 99pts
Plague priest, plague censer, warpstone amulet - 111pts

Core
30 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 165pts
25 Clanrats, standard bearer, musician - 140pts
Ratling Gun - 60 pts
20 Slaves - 40pts
3 Giant Rat packs - 90pts
10 Nightrunners, extra hand weapon - 70pts

Special
3 Warplock Jezzails - 60pts
3 Warplock Jezzails - 60pts

Power Dice: 3
Dispel Dice: 3

Model Count: 116
Total Army Cost: 1000

this list looks solid, however i question the effectiveness of the jezzail teams as i have found that they are only really effective in large units, i would also drop the warplock pistol, with these losses (130pts IIRC) u would be able to add another squad of slaves (40pts) another ratling gun (60pts)
then with the extra 30pts u could add another dispel scroll or give the engineer the storm daemon to bolster your warp lightening onslaught

squeekenator
28-12-2006, 21:19
Jezzails are best in large numbers, it's true. However, at 1000pts, the enemy knights will also have low numbers, and the jezzails are this list's best answer to cannons and the like. I say keep them.

mightygnoblar
28-12-2006, 21:34
to be honest i would say that the extra rattling gun a suggested would be able to deal with most knight units that u would see at this level with the added bonus of being able to deal more damage to block infantry
the problem i find with low number of jezzails is that they do not make very good flank gaurds which is the role i use them for, as a large squad can make an enemy think twice about sending cavalry down the flank because of the damage they could do, where as a small will not deter most players