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Nazguire
12-07-2005, 01:36
What if...


Horus hadn't rebelled and the only Legions that had rebelled were the Word Bearers, the Thousand Sons and the Night Lords, the Legions that were more or less destined to rebel anyway?

What if...

The Tau had been pushed back further in the Damocles Crusade, past Dal'yth into more capital territory before finally pushing back the Imperials at great cost? Would their expansion be more passive or aggressive after seeing the true power of the Imperium?

What if...

The Tyranids HAD devoured Ultramar? Would the Imperium destabilise? Would they push all their resources into defeating the Tyranids and only the Tyranids?

What if...

The Chaos 13th Black Crusade failed? Miserably. As miserably as you can get. What would be the Imperial response?

What if...

I bought Maccas instead of Hungry Jacks?

angelspast
12-07-2005, 02:08
I bought Maccas instead of Hungry Jacks?

*shudder* you eat those? :(

Kiro
12-07-2005, 02:22
Horus hadn't rebelled and the only Legions that had rebelled were the Word Bearers, the Thousand Sons and the Night Lords, the Legions that were more or less destined to rebel anyway?

Well, the traitor legions would be crushed without even a hiccup in the Imperial warmachine. Without some charismatic leader to unite them i.e. Horus, the traitor legions would probably divide their forces between fighting each other, and the Imperium. Thus, they would be well and truly squashed. On that matter, I suppose the 40k game wouldn't exist, since a loyal Horus would mean a live Emperor, and a live Emperor means the Great Crusade would eventually conquer the galaxy.
Enough with the Thousand Sons hating already :rolleyes:


The Tau had been pushed back further in the Damocles Crusade, past Dal'yth into more capital territory before finally pushing back the Imperials at great cost? Would their expansion be more passive or aggressive after seeing the true power of the Imperium?

Absolutely, positively no change whatsoever.


The Tyranids HAD devoured Ultramar? Would the Imperium destabilise? Would they push all their resources into defeating the Tyranids and only the Tyranids?

Most likely the Imperium would divert only more than they "really" did. Likely the Astartes would be lobbying for some grand crusade against them, seeing as though they entirely wiped out one of the First Founding legions.


The Chaos 13th Black Crusade failed? Miserably. As miserably as you can get.

But...I....thought it did!!! :D

ahhh, "what if" scenarios seem to go hand in hand with the 40k universe, so many things that could change, so many possibilites.

Nazguire
12-07-2005, 02:53
Absolutely, positively no change whatsoever.
.


Why no change? If they found that the Imperium wasn't up for the shiznit of the Tau and could quite easily annihilate them, in this case by the what if scenario of penetrating really deep into Tau territory, wouldn't they become either more passive for the time being, scared of another attack that was even worse? Or more aggressive, developing anti-Imperial technology and tactics in hopes of defeating them next time around?

Khaine's Messenger
12-07-2005, 03:03
Horus hadn't rebelled and the only Legions that had rebelled were the Word Bearers, the Thousand Sons and the Night Lords, the Legions that were more or less destined to rebel anyway?

Depends on the nature of the rebellion. I could see the Word Bearers and Night Lords being a real pain. Further, since the Ultras did not become the penultimate Marines, it's likely the Emperor's Children and Sons of Horus would be the boyscouts...assuming that things are left as they are a bit. Besides the fact that the Emperor would probably still be up and about and the Legions might not be split up, the Emperor's various Councils would no doubt still exist as well, which means that the dictatorial powers of the Space Marines would slowly leach away to more "civil" authorities, perhaps leading towards a more touching and less chaos-inspired civil war or two.


The Tau had been pushed back further in the Damocles Crusade, past Dal'yth into more capital territory before finally pushing back the Imperials at great cost? Would their expansion be more passive or aggressive after seeing the true power of the Imperium?

It wouldn't really change their opinions of the galaxy at large, as they already have to deal with Orks on a regular basis. The only difference would be that they might add the gue'la to the "exceptions to the Sio't meditations" list with the Or'es'la and the Y'he....but even that's doubtful. I would imagine things would be a little more grim, and the Tau would, overall, have a more dour outlook, but the dispositions of Tau forces would probably not really change all that much, especially considering how little attention the Imperium's given to them since the DGC.


The Tyranids HAD devoured Ultramar? Would the Imperium destabilise? Would they push all their resources into defeating the Tyranids and only the Tyranids?

Considering that Battlefleet Ultima was there, I imagine that the entire Ultima Segmentum would be compromised and the "nuclear option" would be employed en masse if at all possible....


The Chaos 13th Black Crusade failed? Miserably. As miserably as you can get. What would be the Imperial response?

A sigh of relief. Counter-assaults, while they occur, generally prove fruitless in the overall scheme of things. Further, most of the resources shifted to the Segmentum Obscuras would remain there for quite a while for mop-up if not prepping for the "inevitable" 14th BC.

Nazguire
12-07-2005, 03:09
A sigh of relief. Counter-assaults, while they occur, generally prove fruitless in the overall scheme of things. Further, most of the resources shifted to the Segmentum Obscuras would remain there for quite a while for mop-up if not prepping for the "inevitable" 14th BC.


Counter-Assaults proving fruitless? ;) How would they, every fleet destroyed, every Chaos Marine killed, every world saved and fortified wouldn't be fruitless. How do you mean?

There's also the thing that what if the Chaos Legions, since they deployed in force in the 13th Crusade, were crushed, how much would this affect the Imperium's policy on organisation? For example, in a White Dwarf dealing with the repercussions of the results of the EoT campaign, it stated that if they won, there would be talk of reinstituting the Space Marine Legions... :evilgrin:

Khaine's Messenger
12-07-2005, 03:14
Counter-Assaults proving fruitless? ;) How would they, every fleet destroyed, every Chaos Marine killed, every world saved and fortified wouldn't be fruitless. How do you mean?

I meant assaults into the Eye itself. If you mean retaking fringe worlds that were lost to the Imperium, then yeah, that's roughly do-able. But "every CSM killed"? Reaching a bit, aren't you?


For example, in a White Dwarf dealing with the repercussions of the results of the EoT campaign, it stated that if they won, there would be talk of reinstituting the Space Marine Legions... :evilgrin:

An utterly bizarre carrot to the stick of disbanding, dishonor, and annihilation. It is unlikely that the Legions could be reformed, ever. It defeats the entire point of the change in the Imperium's strategic philosophy; why not re-integrate the Imperial Army while you're at it? It would create too much of a combined-arms approach and place too much power in too few hands once again. While the Imperium could be savoring victory, I really doubt they're going to go "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, have it your way if you want."

Kiro
12-07-2005, 03:34
Why no change? If they found that the Imperium wasn't up for the shiznit of the Tau and could quite easily annihilate them, in this case by the what if scenario of penetrating really deep into Tau territory, wouldn't they become either more passive for the time being, scared of another attack that was even worse? Or more aggressive, developing anti-Imperial technology and tactics in hopes of defeating them next time around?

People are getting an entirely wrong impression of the Tau and the Tau'Va. It isn't merely some "easier said than done" two-bit, phony, philosophy, it's their way of life. Their religion. Seeing the "full might of the Imperium" would not change their outlook. It is also not simply pacifism. It's more likely to say, it's all about efficiency. Rash actions and indecision are simply counter-productive to meeting the goals of the Empire. As an aside, I have to ask, why the hell do people keep banging on about this? The Tau already know of the Imperium's fulll might, all they have to do is compare the amount of Imps brought in during the Damocles Crusade, and compare it to the size of the Imperium and voila!

Sephiroth
12-07-2005, 05:37
Kiro is entirely correct. The Fire Warrior novel answered that.


Men'he silently thanked the Earth Caste for their breathtakingly intelligent computers, at a loss to understand how the gue'la could even begin to decipher such complex tactical showdowns without the benefit of automated systems.

Manpower, he supposed. A hundred thousand humans for every tau in the galaxy - that was the current intelligence estimate. Each of those ugly angular warships was a world, a population of servile ratings and crew without a single freedom beyond the ability to worship their cruel, blinkered gargoyle-god.

Brusilov
12-07-2005, 06:31
What if...
Horus hadn't rebelled and the only Legions that had rebelled were the Word Bearers, the Thousand Sons and the Night Lords, the Legions that were more or less destined to rebel anyway?

The Great Crusade would still be going strong, the Legiones Astartes would still be a major political power, the Hight Lords and the Inquisition would not exist.
And on the matter of the Thousand Sons, it depends on whether they they broke their oath not to study sorcery. If they didn't they would remain loyal to the Imperium.



What if...
The Tau had been pushed back further in the Damocles Crusade, past Dal'yth into more capital territory before finally pushing back the Imperials at great cost? Would their expansion be more passive or aggressive after seeing the true power of the Imperium?

The question is whether the Imperium could have pushed further, with Hive Fleet Behemoth coming for Ultramar. As to the reaction of the Tau, I don't think it would have changed much...



What if...
The Tyranids HAD devoured Ultramar? Would the Imperium destabilise? Would they push all their resources into defeating the Tyranids and only the Tyranids?

As mentioned the Ultima Segmentum would be in serious trouble, and so would the Segmentum Tempestus (as the fleet from Bakka had also come), it would be very dangerous because the Navy's capability would be seriously diminished, meaning other races could profit from it.



What if...
The Chaos 13th Black Crusade failed? Miserably. As miserably as you can get. What would be the Imperial response?


A good question, I don't think it would have changed much, the Chaos victory did not change much either. The supposed great evolution following the victory from either side did not happen.