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mightygnoblar
28-12-2006, 21:59
would you say that this was a viable tactic for effectively removing a slann from the game

1. first take a high-elf highborn
2. give him as much mundane armour as he can have
3. mount on a great eagle
4. equip with a null stone
5. then hug the slann like a bad habit making sure to keep out of harms way where ever possible

what do you think?

Lord Vilmore
28-12-2006, 22:53
works like a charm but I suppose you'll get shot by everything availeble and then you've spend near to 272 points for maybe two or so rounds of no slann magic, wouldn't you think 13 scrolls can do a better job at that for the same amound of points :)

Reinnon
28-12-2006, 22:59
theres one problem with that tactic

the fact that slanns tend to very well guarded by large lizards armed with very big sticks that are often supported by skinks

the slann is often so well defended in the middle of the lizardmen force that a lone character would have a small chance to survive.

Xavier
28-12-2006, 23:01
Not to mention it could just walk out of range of the null stone.

Negativemoney
28-12-2006, 23:27
Any wizard that can take the lore of shadow and take pit of shade. That should make short work of that oversized frog.

Reinnon
28-12-2006, 23:30
assuming that you roll a 6 and get it through the dispels

Negativemoney
28-12-2006, 23:33
Seer and a few other nice tools are nice. Or even taking a Book of Hoeth to help with the casting depending on if you roll that spell or not with 4 dice.

Reinnon
29-12-2006, 00:01
hmm, very good point there.

GAWD
29-12-2006, 02:02
2 ways to deal w/the Slann for HE.

Seer lv 4 archmage w/shadows: The problem is that magic heavy lizzies can generate so many dispel dice that your good spells won't get through. Seer can work, if you're gonna get the good spells & cast them to draw out dispell dice ... then you can hit him w/Drain magic on full power from your level 2 mage to cripple his magic next phase.

Level 4 Archmage w/book of hoeth & shadows: W/a level 4, you're almost guarenteed of getting Lurker or Pit. With the book you're casting irresistable foce quite easily. Lurker can allow you tie him up in hth very quickly w/some decent cav or eagle mounted commanders. Pit can dump him off the table straight away.

Goq Gar
29-12-2006, 10:37
Well, of course, you must also take into consideration the fact that a slann is a magic monster. I have seen slanns destroy entire quarters of the battlefield. I am a lizardmen player, and if you want to kill a slann, this is how you do it:

Your biggest, most hard hitting unit available slams into the front. You protect the flanks of this unit while it cuts through the temple guard (hopefully) and just pray your opponent doesn't decide to magic you to death. Slanns can cast magic out of their unit even while you're trying to beat it senseless in combat. Of course all of the temple guard will have 4+ ward saves (assuming your opponent knows what he's doing and kitted out his slann) and the Null stone cannot affect the plaques which allow a slann to do this.

In short: Killing a slann requires either all your best units plowing into it's bodyguard, or an ungodly amount of siege weaponry attacks and such.

Latro
29-12-2006, 17:38
Of course all of the temple guard will have 4+ ward saves (assuming your opponent knows what he's doing and kitted out his slann) and the Null stone cannot affect the plaques which allow a slann to do this.


You're right ... except of course that it only gives a 5+ ward save to the unit and that it doesn't work against wounds from combat.


... hmmm, on second thought it seems you're just very wrong.

;)

ardude
29-12-2006, 17:43
how about take a level 4 archmage with book of arcan and cast pit of shades on him ?

( no you can't beat that :D )

Latro
29-12-2006, 18:21
how about take a level 4 archmage with book of arcan and cast pit of shades on him ?

( no you can't beat that :D )

Yes I can ... because Archmages can't take the Book of Arkhan and even if they did, what would they need a VanHel's Dance Macabre for?

:D

sulla
29-12-2006, 21:06
Yes I can ... because Archmages can't take the Book of Arkhan and even if they did, what would they need a VanHel's Dance Macabre for?

:D

...But other than those slight flaws, a very good plan, yes? ;) :evilgrin:

I'd say be patient, whittle down his unit if it's poorly protected but more importantly, focus on weakening a flank so you can flank charge his temple guard with a large block of your best and if possible hit them front with some heavy hitters too (chariots or somesuch). Even better if one of your mages 'seer's' up some fear causing and/or movement spells to help you do this quickly. But more likey, you're gonna have to do it the old fashioned way, by killing enough of his troops that you can get to him and start hitting him.

Dirty tricks would include adding a BSB with the Battle banner to the flanking unit (one of the best BSB banners in the game) or the more risky nullstone-prince leading your silver helms/dragon princes into cc with the frog's unit.

DeathlessDraich
29-12-2006, 21:12
Undead and TK can kill a Slann and his temple Guard more easily than most - by winning CR and outnumbering.
I'm sure you've used this tactic in one of your battle reports Latro?

Reinnon
29-12-2006, 21:37
while of course UD and TK can use combat res to whittle down a slanns unit, this topic is concerning high elves.

it might work with a good cav charge or a very big unit of spearman/swordmasters, but generally the best way i've found is to either ignore the unit (and rely on magic defense to control the slanns magic phase) and go for the rest of the army, or to target the slann unit with pretty much everything you have and hope for the best :)

GrandReaper
30-12-2006, 04:42
Well, I've lost my Slann once and only once. It was to HE. Turn 1. Lv2 mage with channeller. Casts pit on three dice. Rolls irrisistable. At max range slann is JUST caught by the template. Rolls 4+ for the partial. I fail the initiative test. Bleach.

Seriously though, a Slann is not normally going to drastically effect the game against HE. I use him more for his leadership and BSB than any offensive damage. Your mages should offer decent defence, your cavalry is not succeptable to most magic missiles, and your artillery have many greater worries in a ballanced LM list. Just kill everything else ( especially if he's using TG ).

matticusmaximus
30-12-2006, 05:14
Hit that froggy with a cannonball in the face. Seems to work for me.

Eldem
30-12-2006, 07:13
Slann can be delt with in much better ways, fortune is fickle of drain magic for example, get it in combat etc etc

Latro
30-12-2006, 10:12
Undead and TK can kill a Slann and his temple Guard more easily than most - by winning CR and outnumbering.
I'm sure you've used this tactic in one of your battle reports Latro?

Well ... "easily" is not the exact word I would use. :cries:

First time I tried to trap the Temple Guard in combat they destroyed a large Sylvanian Levy unit in just two combat rounds. The second attempt cost me a Thrall and got the Drakenhof Templar unit stuck by a draw. The third try was more succesful with the Templars in front, a large Sylvanian Levy unit from the rear and the Vampire Count hacking into the flank ... I won and they ran for it.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44900

I have a healthy respect for 2nd generation Slann's and their Temple Guards are no pushovers either. Your best chance is to concentrate on the rest of his army, which will be quite small due to the massive cost of his main unit, and gang-up on his Slann in the end.

... the magic still hurts though.

ardude
30-12-2006, 11:41
all that helped you there was damn luck :p
couldn't dispel a single spell in the fifth turn :cries:

( but it was a cool battle:) )

Von Wibble
30-12-2006, 14:18
I faced a Slann once with HE. 2nd gen I add, albeit previous edition rules.

He didn't cast much at all. Drain magic is all you need. Slann for their points don't offer much in the line of dispelling - a mere +1. In terms of number of dice a slann plus skink priest gives 5 in the pool (anything more than this in my standard 2500pt game is getting weak in combat). Since my HE have 9-11 power dice (radiant gem on prince plus 2 mages, one with jewel of dusk) drain magic will get through.

wildkarrde0
30-12-2006, 17:59
another problemm i,ve faced is the slann casting bears anger on the scar vet body guard the spell give 7 strength 7 attacks to vet and normal make talking the the temple guard a lot harder

Tutore
30-12-2006, 22:12
I would avoid the whole unit and use drain magic. It's the best way to deal with him.

shadowghost
31-12-2006, 09:02
The way to beat slann is to cast drain magic on it until you have killed off the rest of the army, and then charge in with everything you have left.

Goq Gar
31-12-2006, 09:43
In a game today I watched a unit of flyers fair very well against a slann's bodyguard. Yes, pegasi, into the rear of 20 temple guard. They managed through some very lucky rolls to cause them to flee and inevitably get overrun.

Dspankdo
31-12-2006, 09:50
If the lizzy player is smart then he will give the slann the totem of prophecy, therefore negating that damn outnumbered by a fear causing enemy thing.
And the problem with your idea shadowghost is that by the time you take out the rest of the army you won't have enough troops left to take on one of the most powerful units in the game. And don't forget that the slann can cast drain magic himself, and he can do it on full value with only 2 power dice and get it off alot of the time.

Dspankdo
31-12-2006, 09:51
In a game today I watched a unit of flyers fair very well against a slann's bodyguard. Yes, pegasi, into the rear of 20 temple guard. They managed through some very lucky rolls to cause them to flee and inevitably get overrun.

They managed to make a stubborn leadership 9 unit with a re-roll flee? bloody flying horses.

Goq Gar
31-12-2006, 10:45
Indeed.

It is sad however that they share the name "flying circus" with such a good and righteous group, the GOOD flying circus. (Monty python you FOOLS!)\

They did so by:

Charging, killing all models that could hit back, and hitting a great stroke of luck.

Dspankdo
31-12-2006, 11:10
Best way to deal with the flying circus is to use the refused flank. The flying circus will rarely beat shooty empire and dwarf armies for this reason.another way to deal with it with lizzys is to put your slann in a big bit of terrain and place a skink priest outside so as to maintain line of sight. You then max out on skinks and kroxigors, to deploy in a line around the terrain.