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Nagrael
30-12-2006, 01:08
Okay so I've been playing warhammer for about 4 months now and have been schooled so very many times by my friends wood elf army. Now we've been playing it as rank bonus is factored in after combat..so If I have 4 ranks of 5 and 5 units are killed in the CC round then I get a rank bonus of +2 instead of +3..but after reading the BRB more closely last night it seems that you get the rank bonus you had at the beginning of the CC..Is that correct? Is that new to 7th ed?

NakedFisherman
30-12-2006, 01:24
Okay so I've been playing warhammer for about 4 months now and have been schooled so very many times by my friends wood elf army. Now we've been playing it as rank bonus is factored in after combat..so If I have 4 ranks of 5 and 5 units are killed in the CC round then I get a rank bonus of +2 instead of +3..but after reading the BRB more closely last night it seems that you get the rank bonus you had at the beginning of the CC..Is that correct? Is that new to 7th ed?

It's not new. Yes, it is correct.

Nagrael
30-12-2006, 03:02
That's incredible...so many games I might have won. You could imagine how not knowing that would suck against wood elves of all armies since they normally don't really have much rank bonus :P

EvC
30-12-2006, 03:36
Well it used to be how you said, a long time ago, so I know it's a bit of an unexpected change.

intellectawe
30-12-2006, 05:06
That's incredible...so many games I might have won. You could imagine how not knowing that would suck against wood elves of all armies since they normally don't really have much rank bonus :P

Rank bonus at the beginning, outnumbering/US bonus at the end. You probably were told a mixed up version of this from your opponents 4 months ago.

Also, they are playing it wrong. Make sure they know this also :) Wouldn't want anyone cheating you now....

Kadrium
30-12-2006, 05:08
Also, if you are unit strength 5+ at the beginning of a combat round, but 4 or less at the end of that round, you do not gain CR bonuses for flank or rear charge. That bonus is also calculated based on US at the end of the combat round.

Krankenstein
30-12-2006, 19:15
Also, if you are unit strength 5+ at the beginning of a combat round, but 4 or less at the end of that round, you do not gain CR bonuses for flank or rear charge.

Hmm. But if those 5 guys negated ranks at the beginning of combat, the ranks will still be negated at the end of combat, even though guy number 5 died, and the flank charge bonus died with him, right?

Flame
30-12-2006, 19:19
Yes, that is correct.

Festus
30-12-2006, 19:19
Right.

Ranks are calculated at the start of the combat phase, all other CR factors are calculated after the fighting.

cf. p.38 BRB

Festus

Mephistofeles
31-12-2006, 13:57
Wait, so you mean if the ranks were negated at the start of the combat, then they will still be negated even if the negators go down below unit strenght 5?

Krankenstein
31-12-2006, 14:04
Well, yes. A bit funky though.

intellectawe
31-12-2006, 16:55
Wait, so you mean if the ranks were negated at the start of the combat, then they will still be negated even if the negators go down below unit strenght 5?

Yes. This is what I said in my post above.

rank bonuses/penalties are done at the start of combat. Once you figure them out, the stay true for the entire combat.

Captain Lysander360
31-12-2006, 19:06
i played my m8s night goblin force and he had 9 ranks of 5 and 7 ranks of 5 and like it was really hard to break em coz of how many they were

ZomboCom
31-12-2006, 19:18
i played my m8s night goblin force and he had 9 ranks of 5 and 7 ranks of 5 and like it was really hard to break em coz of how many they were

Please speak in correct English.

You realise that rank bonuses are only counted up to a maximum of 3, right?

Captain Lysander360
02-01-2007, 11:55
Thank God for that my mate now only gets 3 rank bonus wooohoooo

TzarNikolai
02-01-2007, 12:06
a question out of curiosity; the griffin banner still doubles rank bonuses right? and now its bsb only...
as ranks are done before combat, if you kill the bsb do they still get doubled rank bonus?

don't have the empire book, don't play empire much (and don't really play fantasy much) so just wondering.

gukal
02-01-2007, 19:08
a question out of curiosity; the griffin banner still doubles rank bonuses right? and now its bsb only...
as ranks are done before combat, if you kill the bsb do they still get doubled rank bonus?

don't have the empire book, don't play empire much (and don't really play fantasy much) so just wondering.

Although not authoritative, the Dire Wolf 6th edition FAQ below is based on the input of design team member Anthony Reynolds and is in my opinion the correct treatment (for both the Bretonnian Banner of the Lady and the Empire's Griffon Standard).

Basically, the number of ranks is calculated at the start of combat ... the magical effect of the banner is applied to that number at the end of combat (if the BSB still lives).

- Gukal

*************
Q. The Bretonnian Battle Standard Bearer, carrying the Standard
of the Lady of the Lake (nullifies rank bonus), is slain during
a combat round. Since rank bonus is calculated at the beginning
of the combat round, when the banner was still active, does the
banner’s effect still kick in?

A. Although ranks are determined at the start of the combat
round, the effect of the Standard is only calculated at the
end - if the Standard Bearer is slain, the enemy still
physically had ranks at the start of turn, so they gain
their normal rank bonus.
S. Anthony Reynolds - Warhammer Design Team (Online Q&A
on the Games Workshop Warhammer Forum)

Festus
02-01-2007, 19:11
Hi

This is the interpretation I would've chosen, as the BRB tells us that you calculate the number of ranks before combat... but CR itself is calculated at the end, after all models have fought.

Nice to see that Direwolf thinks along my lines for once :D

Festus