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Lord Steven
30-12-2006, 10:35
Yesterday I played some dark elves with my chaos mortals. A situation arose where my friend declared a charge from his cold one knights against my marauder horsemen.

My horsemen were around 4 inches away when the charge was declared (the distance in a straight line so as to clip them - an inch or so wheel would have been needed to charge straight on).

So I roll my 3 dice to see how far they flee and I get a 10. This puts me about half an inch into my beast herd. So I ask my friend if I should put them to the other side, as is shown in the rulebook.

Now he's convinced that because a 10 was rolled, and because he was 'about 4 inches away to start with that they should be run down. I put it to him that the flee was performed first and so the distance they travelled was actually 10 inches, plus the distance to the other side of the beast herd.

So we come up with 2 options -

1. His cold one knights reach the horsemen (which are destroyed) and are placed 1 inch in front of the beast herd (I can't see how he could charge the beast herd due to the change in redirection rules).

2. My cowardly marauder horsemen flee to the otherside of the beast herd (which takes a panic check) and the cold one knights move their failed charge distance.

We agreed that on a roll of a 4+ he could have option 1. He rolled a 2 :)

Was this played the right way?

ZomboCom
30-12-2006, 10:48
If you fled into a friendly unit, yes you would certainly be placed on the other side of it, meaning you wouldn't be run down.

However, the situation as you describe is sounds like he could certainly have declared enemy in the way on the herd. If the fleeing unit is placed on the other side of them, then in order to try to catch them the cold ones would find the herd in their way. That allows an enemy in the way redirection.

DeathlessDraich
30-12-2006, 12:30
1) If the fleers were caught, they are "immediately removed". pg 22. - a phrase GW did not think of when they wrote the new Errata and FAQ. I think your opponent followed this too literally.*

EITW would still occur and according to the Errata a charge declaration has to be made against the new unit (beast herd) which may also be caught. If the new unit flees then the COK may declare a charge against the fleeing Horsemen etc etc until the charge succeeds or fails. This implies measuring distances is not left to the very last**.

2) *In your case, I think you would have escaped because the initial pivot would have added half an inch or so and therefore the distance your horsemen would have moved would be 14 and a half inches (or maybe more) which is greater than the 14" COK charge distance who also need an inch or so to wheel.

3) **The tricky bit is when to measure. It has to be after charge declarations and reactions by the rules, but the 1st fleeing unit (Horsemen) will have to make a measurement to find out where it ends up. This measurement helps the Beast herd who will have an idea whether the COK will reach them or not.
I find it best to discuss the situation with my opponent.

Lord Steven
30-12-2006, 13:05
OK, thanks that makes more sense. I'd forgotten about enemy in the way.

Next time I'll declare the reaction, measure the flee distance to determine where the flee'ers end up. And finally measure the full distance that the charging unit can move.

If the full charge movement, including any wheels, means that they hit another of my units along the path then it counts as a new charge and I can make another reaction.

I suppose the flee's would continue until either a unit is caught within range of the initial charge or gets away.

Just one minor question...

When doing the measure of the initial flee distance.. is this measured to the other side of the unit it passed through or literally the point where the tape is (ie. within another friendly unit)?

EvC
30-12-2006, 13:50
I believe that the charge reaction is resolved before you move the chargers, so you'd have already placed them on the other side of the Beastmen by then, so catching them would not be possible... unless the panic test resulted in the Beastmen fleeing as well :D

T10
30-12-2006, 15:11
That is correct.

The rules for flee/pursuit after a round of combat allows for the dice roll to determine wether the unit escapes or not, but that is a very different situation.

In the charge/flee situation you need to mode the units and measure distances. You should take care to move your units in a precise and orderly fassion.

-T10

Festus
30-12-2006, 16:09
Hi

Most are correct:

A fleeing unit from a charge response is moved in the compulsory move sub-phase, and - as in this case - if moving into a friendly unit is positioned on the far side of it.

The chargers are only moved in the move chargers sub-phase, which comes later. If they cannot reach the fleeing unit, it will get away. EitW can be an issue during the move chargers phase.

Festus

Chicago Slim
31-12-2006, 01:51
Festus has the right of it: the movement phase is clearly broken down into sub-phases. Compulsary moves (including enemies fleeing as a charge reaction) comes before moving chargers. If I recall correctly, the order should be:

1) Cold One Knights declare charge in the Declare Charges subphase
2) Marauders declare Flee as their response in the Declare Charges subphase
3) Marauders roll distance and are moved during the Compulsary Moves subphase; as with all other fleeing moves, when they would end in contact with a friendly unit, they automatically extend their flight to end 1" past their friendly unit
4) Beast Herd takes a panic test as soon as the Marauders move through them; if they panic, they are immediately moved (and, if the roll low, they'll use the same '1" past friendlies' rule).
5) If the Beast Herd pass their panic test (or if the Maruaders were too small to force a panic test), then during the Move Chargers subphase, the Cold One Knights will redirect into the Beast Herd-- EVEN IF THEY CAN'T SEE THE BEAST HERD before moving! The Beast Herd get their normal charge responses (including stand and shoot). If they flee as a charge response, they are fled BEFORE moving the COKs. Once the Beast Herd's response is resolved, measure and move the Cold One Knights. If the Beast Herd stands to take the charge, then measure from the Cold One Knights to the herd-- if it's out of range, then the charge is failed. If the Beast Herd flees, the Cold One Knights AGAIN redirect their charge, BACK to the Marauders-- measure the charge distance to their CURRENT position (which, in the case you describe, will be out of charge range, thanks to the "boost" of moving through friends-- thus, a failed charge).

The big thing to remember is that chargers catch fleers if and only if the fleers are in their normal charge range during the Move Chargers subphase. Anything that as before that is irrelevant, and you shouldn't even worry about it. This is a pretty subtle significant change from 6th ed, and one that my local group is just getting a handle on...

The new FAQ has some nice bits in it about redirection of charges-- I highly recommend.