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klastica
30-12-2006, 12:16
I recently played a game against Skaven

he had a unit of plague monks (which were frenzied) and a unit of plague censor barers (also frenzied) moving alongside the unit (i think they have to stay within 3 inches until charged)

I faced them with a unit of 35 Zombies to tie them up for a while

now both units where in the front arc of my Zombies BUT he declared a charge with his ranked unit (in the charge section).

he then in the compulsary movement phase (where frenzied units have to charge if they can) he charged my Zombies in the flank explaining that even though he was in my front arc the censor barers could only see the flank and thus had to attack what they could see.

This meant that 9 censor barers got to attack doing serious damage - so much so that my poor unit of 35 Zombies were wiped out in a single turn - allowing him then to overrun and threaten flanks etc of my other units

it basically won him the game

is it right though? Looking in the rule book it doesn't seem to clear the problem although it does suggest that units in fronk arc can only attack in the front

anyone come accoss this tactic before?
Is it legal?

DeathlessDraich
30-12-2006, 12:55
No. it doesn't sound legal.
1) Frenzied charge declarations and measuremnt are done at the end of all other charge declarations Not in the Compulsory movement.
2) If the chargers are in the frontal arc at the beginning then it Must be a frontal charge. If these chargers are obstructed in any way and prevented from reaching the front, the charge fails! - this is reiterated in the new Errata.

Krankenstein
30-12-2006, 14:09
Page 3 of the official Warhammer FAQ tells us:

No, you may charge the flank/rear of an enemy only if
you are in that enemy's flank/rear zone. Therefore the
unit in the example above must move until it is in the
enemy unit's flank zone before it can charge its flank.

chase123
30-12-2006, 15:35
This is the exact situation I was refering to in my first reply on the last thread. It is possible, maybe even likely, to block your own units in the move chargers part of the movement phase. Frenzied units must declare charges last. Chargers must be moved in the order they were declared.

Now, this doesn't mean that the Plague Censer Bearers in the example fail. The exception I noted dictates that if two units declare a charge at the same target, they are moved in simultaneously. So, in your example, I believe that the correct course of action is to move both chargers in for frontal-arc charges, splitting the frontage between them as the charging player sees fit.

Here's what I wrote in the other thread:


Rulebok pg. 20 under Move Chargers:

"Charges are resolved one at a time, in the order that they were declared."

Thus, the order the charges are declared can provide a tactical advantage by blocking charges that cross each others' paths. Notably, this doesn't apply to two units charging the same target, because in that case, the rulebook stipulates that they are resolved simulatenously (pg. 23, under Multiple Chargers).

I think that these two rules, combined with the FAQ, show clearly that your opponent played it wrong.

DeathlessDraich
31-12-2006, 11:57
No, the way to determine flank charges etc is as I stated above.
pg20 "A charging unit's position at the start of the movement phase determines whether it is a flank etc"

klastica
31-12-2006, 16:15
Thanks guys

I think that pretty much clears this one up

When a rule is interpreted in such a false way and gains significant advantage it should be up to the charger (in this case) being able to prove (with the rule book) that his charge was in any way legal.

nowhere in the book does it say - you have to charge in front arc if your troops are in this arc UNLESS your frenzied in which case you can charge whatever flank you can see

Nor does it say that frenzied units attack (move in) after normal chargers

The rules seem quite clear to me now

I think the Skaven player in question has used this tactic to significant advantage on many ocasions - I can't wait to see him in early January