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Your Mum Rang
30-12-2006, 21:44
Hey all. I've gotten way too used to my fast and nimble Wood Elf army. Because of this an infantry force just won't do! So how well does a cavalry force work when using the HoC list?

We all know how powerful Chaos Knights are so would this list be too boring and hit-or-miss?

Also what power would to be best to go for? Slaanesh and Mounted Daemonettes are sounding tasty!

vampires are cool!
30-12-2006, 23:29
Nurgle fear causing chaos knights can take a table top by themselves in my experiance, dispite not having any spedy nurgle only units. Khorne are nice all rounders, with their flesh hounds, Slannesh as you said do pack a punch, whilst i belive the tzneetch army plays very competativly with lots if interestingdeadlock breakers.
All cav armies can be quite brittal in my experiance - unless you have a diverse mix of heavy and light cav. All heavy tend to charge, get trapped and out-flanked where as all light tend to fair a bit better.
The army would only be boring if you played it that way; a cav army can be quite diverse.

druchii
31-12-2006, 00:46
Hey all. I've gotten way too used to my fast and nimble Wood Elf army. Because of this an infantry force just won't do! So how well does a cavalry force work when using the HoC list?

We all know how powerful Chaos Knights are so would this list be too boring and hit-or-miss?

Also what power would to be best to go for? Slaanesh and Mounted Daemonettes are sounding tasty!

Cav armies tend to be as fun as you play them. If you throw stuff towards the enemy, with big, heavy units. IMO it won't be as much fun as if you played with a decisive mix of light and heavy units (marauder horsemen, hounds, knights, and even some daemons) you'll be alot more successful AND have more fun with the army.

For HoC I tend towards the Khornate side of things. HoC tend to be magic light, and model few, and cavalry armies tend to compound this issue. Khorne allows you to take a few khornate units, and add some dispel dice to the pool in the process. Oh, and you get frenzied knights.

Frenzy isn't all that bad. You can set up alot of cunning screens with your warhounds and marauders, and your ws5 s5 A2 knights will buther almost anything in the game. Imagine chosen. Your heroes are terrifying in their own right. A khorne marked hero with a halberd dishes out an obscene number of attacks, at a S high enough to threaten other heavy units.

d

Your Mum Rang
31-12-2006, 08:43
Well did a preliminary list and managed to fit in 2 Slaanesh heroes, 2 Slaaneshi Shamen alonh with 2 units of Marauder Horsemen, 2 Knights units, 2 Chariots, 2 Spawns and 2 units of Minotaurs.

vcassano
31-12-2006, 09:04
Well did a preliminary list and managed to fit in 2 Slaanesh heroes, 2 Slaaneshi Shamen alonh with 2 units of Marauder Horsemen, 2 Knights units, 2 Chariots, 2 Spawns and 2 units of Minotaurs.

The Spawn would be sooo slow for your army, possibly even the chariots. Maybe fit in some Mounted Daemonettes who have M9? I assume one of the Slaanesh Heroes is mounted on the Boobyworm?

You need lots more hounds; 4x5 preferably. Only 120 points and an excellent bait/flanking/shooting protection unit.

druchii
31-12-2006, 15:34
The Spawn would be sooo slow for your army, possibly even the chariots. Maybe fit in some Mounted Daemonettes who have M9? I assume one of the Slaanesh Heroes is mounted on the Boobyworm?

You need lots more hounds; 4x5 preferably. Only 120 points and an excellent bait/flanking/shooting protection unit.

Unless the spawn are marked slaanesh. Average movement of 10", letting the keep fair pace with the knights. Also,the advantages of spawn far outweigh(imo) their speed controllability. Running a T5 unbreakable monstrosity into most units will let you lock them in place for some Knightly play-time.

Although the minotaurs are incredible, I'd drop both units and opt for a single unit of either three or four DragonOgres(who match the speed of the knights). Then I'd add in some furies. I can't tell you just how much I love small based fliers in an all cav. army.

The chariots onthe other hand are wicked. I love running them in pairs, as it allows you to bait, combine charge(not many units can stand a charge from two chariots), etc. with both. Either go two chariots, or none.

Luck with the army.
D

Briohmar
31-12-2006, 18:29
My all time favorite army to play against is three units of Khorne knights with characters (usually 8-10 strong). A lord, an exalted two unit of 8 regular knights and 1 of chosen (usually with the lord). Of course this type of player will usually manage to bring a hellcannon as well. I have slaughtered variations of this army from multiple players many times. And I don't even use chosen knights in my Slaanesh army. With all Cav you're not going to have a lot of units, which means you're going to get trapped and dragged down by weight of numbers. Heck at 1500 points I can field 64 models in 9 units. Against an army with only three units, I'm going to have a field day.

Khadhar'phak
31-12-2006, 19:48
In my opinion, all cav. armies tend to disadvantageous. The average horseman is barely better than the average infantryman, and calvary tend to get smacked senseless in drawn out combats. If you mix powers, you could basically field the kind of "swiss army knife" army that has a unit for every occurrence. I.e. Khornate knights frenzied charge massed pikemen, daemonette cav. flank charge the pikemen and recieve less punishment, but give more. The khorne knights should be able to soak some punishment.

Finnigan2004
01-01-2007, 18:11
I really like khorne, so taking that bias into account, I think that an all khorne chaos knight army could be pretty effective. You would get loads of attacks, enough dispel dice, and now frenzied mounts get extra attacks too. :evilgrin: Some people will say that it won't be fun to play because it's point and click, no strategy, etc.. I have to say that actually playing khorne, quite the opposite is true. Managing frenzy makes for lots of interesting tactical decisions, and I find my khorne daemons lots of fun to play. You can play fluffy or competitive with a themed list. If you play competitive people, it's viable to use a pure khorne force, even then. Imagine their face when your lord and five knights hit his elite unit, and you grab twenty five plus dice to work out attacks (yes, it's possible).

Inkosi
01-01-2007, 18:44
My all time favorite army to play against is three units of Khorne knights with characters (usually 8-10 strong). A lord, an exalted two unit of 8 regular knights and 1 of chosen (usually with the lord). Of course this type of player will usually manage to bring a hellcannon as well. I have slaughtered variations of this army from multiple players many times. And I don't even use chosen knights in my Slaanesh army. With all Cav you're not going to have a lot of units, which means you're going to get trapped and dragged down by weight of numbers. Heck at 1500 points I can field 64 models in 9 units. Against an army with only three units, I'm going to have a field day.

you know what?? slaughtering a noob khorne player is nothing much. Having his khorne knights 8-10 big shows that hes a complete git who knows nothing about khorne.

Oh how i wish i could show people what a real khorne army is and how powerful they are when properly played.

I just hate it when people booast about slaughtering khorne armies which are so noobish.

DirtJumper
01-01-2007, 22:23
I know exactly what you're saying. I've brought my Khorne Cavalry and Skaven Pestilens army to a few tourneys, and I have yet to really be hurt by the fact that most of my models are frenzyed. You can try and use the old "draw them away" tactic, but most of the time I can screen with my hounds, blocking LoS from my unit to theirs, then just send the Merauder hosemen after them, letting my important units get to where they're supposed to. Sometimes I will even go for it. Depending on the angles, you can turn it to your advantage, there has been many a time I have gotten a dozen or so inches of extra movement towards war machines or units on the flanks from someone trying to draw my knights away from the centre. read your rules for frenzy and failed charges, they can help you out quite a bit.

Briohmar
02-01-2007, 03:29
you know what?? slaughtering a noob khorne player is nothing much. Having his khorne knights 8-10 big shows that hes a complete git who knows nothing about khorne.

Oh how i wish i could show people what a real khorne army is and how powerful they are when properly played.

I just hate it when people booast about slaughtering khorne armies which are so noobish.

Amazingly, you'd think this was the case, but its not. There were two veteran players in Wiesbaden that each carried a variation of this army to a 1500 point tourney (no hell cannon, but the knights) And I faced another variant of the same force in a Tourney in California at 2150, but it had a Shaggoth with it.
One of the guys in Wiesbaden was beating everybody in the store so badly in regular pick up games that the red shirts asked me specifically to play him and whip his butt, which I did and there was much rejoicing (YAY!)
I'm not booasting (check your spelling by the way) about slaughtering Khorne armies, I'm responding to the original question of "is an all Chaos Knight army a viable option?" to which I would reply, "no it is not, as it is easily slaughtered." If you are upset that people regularly beat this type of corn dog list, then it should be your task to ensure that it does not remain "THE" most common variant of corn. (Yes I intentionally mispelled Khorne, twice even. I am a Slaanesh player after all.)
As to Dirt Jumper's comment, you are right. Frenzy is not nearly the liability you hear parroted throughout this and other boards. It is merely a catch phrase that people use to make themselves sound like veteran players giving sound advice. The reality of playing against a frenzied army is more to bring the enemy into a situation where you have a serious tactical advantage such as a triple charge with a static CR unit (preferably in the flank), a rock hard shock unit (in the front), and something to cut off the flee such as fliers or skirmishers, preferably in the rear arc. Even then, a unit of Chosen Khorne knights will make it a good fight, with maybe only losing by 1 or 2 points of CR when all is said and done.

Frankly
02-01-2007, 07:20
My all time favorite army to play against is three units of Khorne knights with characters (usually 8-10 strong). A lord, an exalted two unit of 8 regular knights and 1 of chosen (usually with the lord). Of course this type of player will usually manage to bring a hellcannon as well. I have slaughtered variations of this army from multiple players many times. And I don't even use chosen knights in my Slaanesh army. With all Cav you're not going to have a lot of units, which means you're going to get trapped and dragged down by weight of numbers. Heck at 1500 points I can field 64 models in 9 units. Against an army with only three units, I'm going to have a field day.

It sounds like you've played against a really bad Khorne all cavalry list and thats all.

There is a tournament player we know in our area that plays all cavalry khorne. Its a solid "take on all comer's" armylist and produces alot of flanking and over-run options.

4 x MoK hero's(mounted)

4 x Mok knights

A LOT of chaos hounds ...I'm taking about heaps and heaps

furies

Chariots.

All the khorne units march up the board behind a meat shield of chaos hounds, chariots and flyers are cover against fast enemy elements.

I've seen him change the list, add and drop units to spice it up. But either way its a simple solid way to play Chaos Knights.

Briohmar
02-01-2007, 09:39
You all seem to be missing the point here. I'm not talking about one game, or one opponent, but multiple opponents in different states in the US (CA, WA, and VA) and multiple countries: US, Germany, and Belgium. And yes, some of the players were Noobs, but some were veterans. I think an All Cav army could be viable, even using corn. If it were constructed as MSU (2-3 Exalted champs, 1 Aspiring champ BSB (leave this guy undivided and give him Banner of the Gods) 1 unit of 5 chosen knights, 1 unit of reg knights, both with MoK, 1 unit of reg knights undivided) several units of hounds, several units of Marauder horse could be devastating if played right. I am however, warning the original poster against the pitfall of the most common Mark of Khorne All Chaos knight army set.

Captain Lysander360
02-01-2007, 10:32
brettonians are basically a cavalry army so cavalry armies are quite kwl i think(i do collect brettonians)

asrian
02-01-2007, 13:01
I run an all cav Slaanesh army and have quite a bit of luck with it against Brets, Dwarves, Vamps, TK's, and Skaven (No elf players around here unfortunately).

My basic list consists of one lord and two heroes (lord on steed, an aspiring hero on chariot, and a mage on regular steed). One unit of knights, two units of daemonettes on steeds, two chariots (one with hero in it), two units of hounds, a unit of furies, and two spawns of slaanesh.

Only having one hammer unit (knights) and the two chariots as support/hitting units means I have to be very careful about how I deploy and move but it makes for a far more tactical and interesting game to me. I don't have the luxury of "wasting" any of my units and have to make sure every move/combat counts, but it's been quite fun to play. The Skaven and the Brets give me the most trouble, but also the most entertainment when playing.

Inkosi
02-01-2007, 13:17
It sounds like you've played against a really bad Khorne all cavalry list and thats all.

There is a tournament player we know in our area that plays all cavalry khorne. Its a solid "take on all comer's" armylist and produces alot of flanking and over-run options.

4 x MoK hero's(mounted)

4 x Mok knights

A LOT of chaos hounds ...I'm taking about heaps and heaps

furies

Chariots.


Thats very similar to one of the list i have considered creating. Just that i only have 3 MoK Knights Unit and the rest are all warhounds, fleshhounds and furies.


You all seem to be missing the point here. I'm not talking about one game, or one opponent, but multiple opponents in different states in the US (CA, WA, and VA) and multiple countries. I am however, warning the original poster against the pitfall of the most common Mark of Khorne All Chaos knight army set.

I would like to think that most competant and experienced khorne players would understand that a khorne army cannot be full of MoK units only.

The way you put it is, that people are having all khorne knights armies which are so easy to beat.


If there are so multiple players using those style in your area, forgive me for being rude, then the level of competance of playing in your area is pretty low i must say.

Briohmar
02-01-2007, 14:03
The way you put it is, that people are having all khorne knights armies which are so easy to beat.

If there are so multiple players using those style in your area, forgive me for being rude, then the level of competance of playing in your area is pretty low i must say.

That is exactly what I'm saying. And as for my "area" If you read it, it covers multiple locations worldwide, Or do you think Belgium, Germany, California, Washington, and Virginia are all towns right next to each other, if so I would say you need to go back to Grade school geography. I'm not trying to be inflamatory, but you are being rude to suggest that the competency in three countries is low because you don't do something that clearly many people worldwide do. It is arrogant of you to suggest that no competent player would do such a thing just because you wouldn't do it. How many games of Warhammer have you played in other countries? Other Geographical regions? I just remembered, I have another country to add to the list of places where I have faced this very same theme of chaos army; Korea. That makes four separate countries, and three separate geographical regions in the US where I have faced the all Khorne knight army. It is therefore my belief that yes, Khorne players do use it.

DirtJumper
02-01-2007, 15:06
That could very well be, I have also heard of people doing just that. But what Inkosi (and I) are saying is that that is not the competitive version of the list, so does not offer s good representation of what a Khorne Cavalry army can really do.

Briohmar
02-01-2007, 15:54
That could very well be, I have also heard of people doing just that. But what Inkosi (and I) are saying is that that is not the competitive version of the list, so does not offer s good representation of what a Khorne Cavalry army can really do.

Fair enough. I am open to a respectable point of view. It is however the most common form of the list. And it is often played by the biggest fish in his respective little pond. I have said that an all cav Chaos force is viable, my point is that an all knight one is not. I am a strong believer in the MSU style of competitive chaos army. I even wrote a series of articles on how to use one effectively that Malkorax was kind enough to post on his web page for me. For some reason Inkosi originally took offense at my statement that this particular form of the Khorne army, though widely used, was easily defeated, and has determined to oppose me without fully reading or understanding what I have said. Since then, I have been debating the point by citing multiple examples in a variety of environments and settings. Which, I thought was the whole point of the discussion boards. I would love to play against him, especially if his army is as effective as he claims. Who knows, someday I may make it to singapore, Gods know I've been damn near everywhere else. I relish any opportunity to play, and win or lose, to learn something new. Heck, the last game I played, I suffered a solid loss. Strangely enough, it was against an MSU chaos army with a very similar configuration to my own. I credit the loss to terrain and not having the first turn, though in reality I had done to me what I have so often done to others: I was out-maneuvered. A mistake I will not repeat.

Ji(v)
02-01-2007, 18:41
I tryed a chaos knight army since i do not like chaos warriors anymore ( their point cost is ridiculous ).I do not field marked units and i dont put to much models in a unit ( 10 chaos knight in a 5x2 formation is not usefull ).I use an all mounted army ( nothing with like M4 ) so i take hounds ( about 20 divided in 2 units ) , marauder horsement with flail ( 2 unit of 5 with flails ) 2 units of chaos knight ( 6 in each and full command ) a unit of 6 chosen chaos knight with full command , 1 chaos chariot , 1 giant , 5 harpies , heroes/mages

All knight khornate army are not that strong ( point wise ) and they can even be outmanoeuvred by any good general .I dont fear khorn armies tough a well balanced chaos army can be really hard to defeat .

so yep chaos knight armies are VIABLE and definatly powerfull

ps : Try not to put all those eggs in the same bag ...

Frankly
03-01-2007, 03:23
Thats very similar to one of the list i have considered creating. Just that i only have 3 MoK Knights Unit and the rest are all warhounds, fleshhounds and furies.





It came first last year and 4th this year, lossing out to the winner of the tournament in the 5th round.

Speed(cavalry)+Damage(khorne) is just all good at tournaments, but its the chaos hounds, flyers and chariots that wins him the games, they get the khorne units into combat and support to win!

He lost to the quickest armylist I've ever seen, an all cavalry TK armylist, from what I hear it was the battle of the tournament.

doogz
06-01-2007, 03:28
I have an all cav force that is slannesh and it competes very well in 3 phases...

Exalted Sorc mounted with daemonsword and talisman
Sorc with scroll and spell familiar
Exalted champ with bindings, steed of slaanesh with flail

5 Hounds
5 Slaanesh knights full cmd and warbanner
5 Slaanesh chosen knights with full cmd
2 chariots
15 marauders with muso and light armour and shields
15 marauders with muso and flails
2 units of 5 mounted marauders with flails and musos

6 furies

2 slaanesh spawn

It does very well and i win alot of games with it