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View Full Version : What's the best option: Highborn or Spellweaver?



Karrlov
01-01-2007, 19:53
What do you guy think is the best way to go with?
Using a Highborn and fielding two Spellsingers?
Or using a Spellweaver and a noble on great eagle? (Leaves a lot of points!)
I myself am a great fan of using magic... But somehow the WE-magic just doesn't seem that great... :confused:
Of course I may be just wrong: does any of you guys have some experience with using Wood Elf-magic to good effect?
Or am I better of using some Spellsingers merely as dispel-boost?

Thanks in advance!
Karrlov

DeathlessDraich
01-01-2007, 20:44
Both works.
Spellweaver armies normally have 2 combat/shooting Nobles and a Branchwraith but since 7th ed, Lore of Life is less effective and Spellweavers seem less popular.

Negativemoney
01-01-2007, 20:56
The problem with wood elves is that they "Wood Elves not Forest Spirits" are to fragile. All you need from a WE lord is the ablity to cast tree singing or to give good combat support. Spellweavers should not be taken in any game under 3000 points and if you do take a Highborn (the Treeman is 10x better IMHO) take 1 lvl 1 Spellsinger w/ 2 scrolls and a lvl1 Branchwraith. But more often than not armies that don't have the Ancient tend to not be as consistent as they should be.

Von Wibble
01-01-2007, 21:32
I have never used the ancient and never plan to. Its a treeman that uses up an extra character slot for no advantages apart from spites that can be given to other characters anyway and 1 tree singing - bad idea.

The answer to the question in the OP is it depends- for me it depends upon how much magic your opponent is likely to use. Wardancers, dryads, glade riders, wild riders etc are great in most roles but if hit by a spell they are in trouble. Lack of armour and toughness is usually countered by manouvrability - not the case with spells. And any spell that improves enemy units and moves them around is even worse - vanhels hurts when you are using an army relying on manouvrability more than against other armies such as a gunline.

Therefore the spellweaver with wand of wych elm is needed imo against armies such as undead, skaven, high elves and other (traditionally) magic heavy armies. Against armies less inclined to use magic to blast you (dwarfs, empire, brets) the highborn is better.

Chicago Slim
01-01-2007, 23:02
Do not overlook the Ld boost of the Ancient, relative to the normal Treeman. Stubborn on an 8 is not so great, really...

But, as the original question was Spellweaver or Highborn, I'll weigh in on that: Wood Elf magic is pretty good stuff. Not a ton of direct damage, but then, that's not the Wood Elf way, anyhow... As I've said elsewhere recently, I think that Wood Elves do best when they focus on doing a few things well, rather than trying to "balance" everything. Magic is more like shooting than like fighting, so bring a Spellweaver if you're bringing a lot of bows, and bring a Highborn if you're planning on pounding it out on the ground...

Your Mum Rang
01-01-2007, 23:02
I still haven't solved this dilemma. So I mainly play 1500pts where it doesn't matter! :P

mightygnoblar
02-01-2007, 00:49
wood elf magic is good but its complementary to your amy and can create good tactical opportunities, it is not directly devastating to the enemy, and trying to use it that way can land you in a whole load of trouble
personally i would prefer the two spell singers one with the calaingors staves as to cast tree sing 2-4 times a turn on one dice, then as negativemoney said take a treeman ancient in order to add another two bound spells to that pile of tree sings, this is noramally enough to make your opponent worry about how much you can do with the the terrain in one turn, and will probaly draw out quite a few dispel dice, leaving you with more options on what to do with your other spellsinger

Highborn
02-01-2007, 04:31
I am a great fan of the Alter Highborn - 5 shots that hit on 2+ and no armour save, backed up by 6 S6 attacks in combat make him one of the most brilliant support characters around for relieving opponents of their heavy support before charging in and destroying support units. To me, the spellweaver is good but the Highborn is brilliant. He won't make his points back, but he removes the heavily armoured enemies and his 18" charge lets him deal with skirmishers and fast cav with extreme prejudice, giving you unquestioned control of a flank.

Captain Lysander360
02-01-2007, 11:35
I would take Spellweaver because you get lots of dispel dice and it can reinforce your units while you charge with lots of magic.

god octo
02-01-2007, 11:39
i took a spellweaver, as i dont really see a huge difference between nobles and highborns- plus, a highborn can get very expensive very fast.

I much prefer my spellweaver, as she adds to my magic defense and allows me to use the lores of Life and Beasts.

Karrlov
02-01-2007, 12:53
Damn. You all have some good arguments. To be honest: I still don't know what to do...
Maybe I need to try some ideas first?

@ Highborn: How do you create that character?
Which item-combination do you use? Bow of Loren, Bodkins, so far I got it. But how do you get the 6 S6- hits?
And who do you use as a general? For the Alter-Highborn can't lead your army?

Reinnon
02-01-2007, 19:12
all lord choices are effective, negitivemonkey is being too much like his name again

spellweavers can add some serious magic defnse and a good use of the lore of beasts can really add punch to your army.... one combo i've seen that works very well is 3 dispel scrolls and the heartstone, solid defense and offense.... a WE player won the GT with that lord

highborn: good all rounder, my personal fav is either wardancer or dragon mounted lords for extra killy goodness

ancient: i can't believe someone said they weren't worth taking, imo one of the best choices in the WE list, a LD9 stubbon close combat monster with strangleroots and the ability to take spites.... thats so good its almost worth not taking anything else. Give him netlings and raidiants and you suddenly best the best all round unit in the game. This unit in a tree surf list is just lethal

Karrlov
02-01-2007, 19:28
Yeah I also looked for that particular option:
The Wardancer Highborn.
If I were to field one of those, my Wardancers get way more deadly, but my Eternal Guard less.
I don't know yet which unit will play a more important role in my battle-plans...
But let's say I'll field a Wardancer-Highborn.
What are the best magic-items to give him?

Thanks for all the good help so far!
Karrlov

Selsaral
02-01-2007, 19:31
On a wardancer highborn i like the netlings spite, the blades of loec, and the amber pendant.

That netlings spite is what turns a Treeman Ancient into a true badass.

angry_elves
02-01-2007, 19:35
i like to take a spell weaver the lore of beasts is useful i also give her glamoreweaver kindred and a unicorn to stop her getting taken out by my oppontents magic its worked so far

raged_norm
02-01-2007, 20:20
What I'm looking at for my highborn is:-

Light Armour
Shield
Great Weapon
Amber Pendant
192pts

To sit in my Eternal Guard, dishing out some damage.

However you might get more from a spellweaver with wand of the wych elm and a dispel scroll in an aggressive army, supplement with a level 1 Branchwraith with a cluster of radiants and you have a more than reasonable magic defense.

Highborn
03-01-2007, 02:32
Damn. You all have some good arguments. To be honest: I still don't know what to do...
Maybe I need to try some ideas first?

@ Highborn: How do you create that character?
Which item-combination do you use? Bow of Loren, Bodkins, so far I got it. But how do you get the 6 S6- hits?
And who do you use as a general? For the Alter-Highborn can't lead your army?

HIGHBORN
Alter Kindred
Bow of Loren
Arcane Bodkins
Helm of the Hunt
Great Weapon
Light Armour
Shield

In combat, he's only good either supported or against medium to fast cavalry or skirmishers (anything with 4+ save or less and no rank bonus). He packs a hell of a punch for a 20mm base though.

My general is usually a Noble. Ld9 isn't bad, although T3 and 2W is definitely a liability that needs to be managed.


I've never tried the Wardancer Highborn, but I've heard good things about Moonstone of the Hidden Ways. You can't go wrong with the Blades of Loec either, and Annoyance of Netlings if you expect him to tackle enemy heroes head on. I'm just scared of M5, T3 and nothing but some pretty inking for protection.

god octo
03-01-2007, 11:32
i picked a spellweave4r first, as i love the magicl aspect of the woodies, but i geared her towards fighting: My fluff says that she has decided to fight her foes on the battlefield, unlike the other, puny mages of other races. She does okay, and the wardancer bodyguard assigned to her help a lot!

Negativemoney
03-01-2007, 11:54
HIGHBORN
Alter Kindred
Bow of Loren
Arcane Bodkins
Helm of the Hunt
Great Weapon
Light Armour
Shield


While this combo was great in 6th eddition a single T3 model running around is screaming for a magic missile to hit him in the face. In 7th its just not worth it to have a single model running around with no means to defend himself.

Now the Wardancer and Wildrider Highborns are IMHO the only two options for a Highborn model now. Given the choice of either having him or a Treeman Ancient I would take the Ancient any day. I mean seriously for 375 you have a T6 model that can go toe to toe with the 600+ Power characters that are seeing more and more play now of days. He will make short work of Daemon Princes, Chaos Lords, Vampires and Tomb Kings. Anything with T3 or T4 that engages him will more than likely not come out alive.

Ender Shadowkin
05-01-2007, 07:47
One problem with the wood elves is that they are vulnerable to magic. Also, WE Unforntuinatly have a hard time generating a lot of potent offensive magic because there hero level mages are restricted to the lore of athel loren and that lore, while it has good spells, can be very situational and you will frequently not be able to cast useful spells in every magic phase. The soltion . . . a very valid tactic is the free wood blitz. By taking Treemen with a abound tree singing and a lower level wizard, you can fling that wood accross the board serriosly disrupting your opponents plans, or worse. These bound spells are really need to make the archmage effective, as they can suck up dispel dice.

I have had succes with the archmage, mounted on a unicorn with 2 scrolls supported by two tree men. That gives you 6 power dice and 2 bound spells, A decent magic phase, but in no way overwhelming. You still have 3 hero slots left. Usually I take a bsb and an Eagle rider(or alter), with the third you can have a lot of options and can even take a lvl 1 branch wraith to really support the free wood bomb assault.

If you don't go for the archmage you should pretty much give up on the magic phase and take a scroll caddy. I have tried two lvl 2's supported by treemmen (for the bound spell) and the lore of athel loren is so finicky its hard to rely on this as a decent magic phase.

A WE highborn can be really nasty, a High born Wardancer has a good shot at killing anything and a lord with the rymers harp can make a monster out of a unit of eternal guard.

I usually end up with either the high born or no lord choice at all (we units are really good), but as noted above I have had fun playing with a unicorn moutned arch mage, if you get lucky the lore of beasts can be pretty devestating with casting bears anger on a nearby wardancer noble (yes killing blow still works) and the potential use of the hunting sphere. Plus if you give the Archmage a murder of spites, he is still a decent combat charector (not verse other lords of course), he will have a 5+ ward save, attacks from the unicorn, and d6 s2 poisened attacks, not too shaby, and you can give him an annoyance of netlings to get through akward challanges.

The wood elf book has lots of fun, very competitve, combos, try a few and see what you like.

Selsaral
05-01-2007, 16:59
I've had solid sucess with the Wand of Wych Elm in a magic-heavy army. All the magic resistance in the army can provide you with tons of dispel dice to feed the Wand of Wych Elm. I find it's almost essential against Skaven due to the horrible devastation that warp lightning deals to expensive, T3, no armour troops.

Glorfindel
05-01-2007, 18:43
While this combo was great in 6th eddition a single T3 model running around is screaming for a magic missile to hit him in the face. In 7th its just not worth it to have a single model running around with no means to defend himself.

Now the Wardancer and Wildrider Highborns are IMHO the only two options for a Highborn model now. Given the choice of either having him or a Treeman Ancient I would take the Ancient any day. I mean seriously for 375 you have a T6 model that can go toe to toe with the 600+ Power characters that are seeing more and more play now of days. He will make short work of Daemon Princes, Chaos Lords, Vampires and Tomb Kings. Anything with T3 or T4 that engages him will more than likely not come out alive.

No disrespect but I hate it when you say stuff like that, their are many other ways to kit your highborn effectively and if you have a single model running around, you have to make sure he doesn't get caught by magic missiles, stay out of LOS from mages or have a dispel scroll at hand when your model is not in h-t-h.

The only option I wouldn't give is waywatcher, these are only good for nobles in my opinion because if you want your lord to scout ... make him scout and not waywatcher because you probably won't be able to use the lethal shot anyway.

Plus your treeman will be a magnet for cannon balls and other war machines. It must be fun to play with sometimes but making this one of the only valable choice is over the top imo. I would suggest to try out as much and possible and find a challenge in finding new ways of equipping your character, let your inspiration work!

sumdain
09-01-2007, 03:22
i was thinking about mounting my highborn on a warhawk

Highborn
warhawk
spear of twilight
light armor
helm of the great hunt
murder of spites

thats 5 ws 8 atks with killing blow on the charge, D6 poisoned str 4 atks, 2 ws 5 str 4 attacks from the hawk + a unit of warhawk riders flying around with him. hits like a truck then it can just run away and hit again.

Highborn
09-01-2007, 06:25
If you mean 2 WS5 S4 attacks from the Great Eagle, which has those stats, then note that a character on a Great Eagle can't join a unit of Warhawks. It's interesting in theory, although my worry would be that the 40mm base would make him too large a target - too many attacks back for him to contend with, and too easily shot down.

BigBuddy
09-01-2007, 23:35
I would say that, above all else, it depends on the army.

You can make a treesurfing army that is sending all kinds of treesinging spells everywhere, and have amazing dispel with the wand of wych elm, plus infinite branch whacks with Calangor's staff

You can make a maneuver army that is running all over the place with Wild riders and glade riders and great eagles and war hawk riders. There I would take a Wild rider noble, helping to boost their formidable presence.

You can make a shooty army, filled with GG, waywatchers and scouts. There, I would take wither a Waywatcher Lord with the Moonstone and maybe hail of doom arrow, just so u can pop behind an enemy and rain down arrowy death. It's also possible to give this highbourne bow of loren and arcane bodkins so that you might beat down on heavily armored troops like cav and steam tanks.

in a close combat type army filled with dryads and wardancers, I would either the the wardancer lord or the Alter. The Alter makes for a one man doom cav pretty much, but the wardancer is pretty good at killing stuff too.

It all depends...