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Melchiah
02-01-2007, 08:56
So after picking up a box of Cadians, the first idea was to make a Van Saar gang. But I really wanted to give my Leader a shotgun, though I dont have one nor can I be bothered to make one or order one, I desided to give him a bolter as a poxy or standin if you will.
Then desided to simply go with orlocks since they can start with the damned bolter anyways. So heres my first shot at a gang list.

Leader- Bolter, Chainsowrd, Laspistol, Knive
Heavy- Heavy Bolter, Knive
5x Gangers with Lasguns
4x Juves with Laspistols and knives
Stash: 30 Creds

Trying to keep things bare bones, should I add genaides? Or switch the heavy bolter to heavy strubber and either bank the creds or pick up a juvie or 2 or a ganger?
CC and advice welcome.
I plan to have my first game Aganst My younger bro's cawdor. Hopefully I'll have some "Juves Stories" to add.

Darkhorse
02-01-2007, 09:52
Pretty good and much as I'd expect for Orlocks, I'd recomend you give the heavy a backup weapon because the Heavy Bolter will be doing ammo rolls the moment you fire it. best to make it a basic weapon because he'll usually be stuck at the back somewhere.
Your leader has a pistol, combat weapon and basic weapon, bear in mind that he can't use the pistol and sword together because he's holding the bolter in one hand.
Autopistols are better weapons for Juves because you'll need 6 to hit over 8" and that's ammo rolls.
Lot of Juves for a starter gang... I might have put in an extra ganger so you can still work territories if one goes OOA.
I wouldn't recomend grenades myself but that may be just me.

Mephistofeles
02-01-2007, 13:15
Oh my, so many lasguns...

Looks good, except the lasguns, they are pure cheese...

EVIL INC
02-01-2007, 13:52
I never started my juves with guns. Chances are, they wont hit the broad side of a barn and the extra cash can be stashed or used to better equip your leader/gangers who can aim a lil better. Shotguns are great, you might want to try a few of those. Yes, I would get the stubber rather then bolter right off. You can use the cash for more gangers and just save to buy a heavy bolter later and you keep all the weapons you buy so the stubber can be sold later or just given to a 2nd heavy you buy later on although your 2nd is usually good with a flamer to help on the front lines.

nightgant98c
02-01-2007, 13:58
Oh my, so many lasguns...

Looks good, except the lasguns, they are pure cheese...

I never thought I'd hear anyone complain that lasguns were cheesy.

Damien 1427
02-01-2007, 14:25
Looks good, except the lasguns, they are pure cheese...

...How? They're hardly killers, the only great thing about them is you'll never run out of ammo. Indeed, apart from the ammo they're an Autogun. Which no-one takes because a Lasgun is superior for not that much more of an outlay.

Along with swords, lasguns are the weapon you want to kit eery ganger out with. Perfect combination, in my eyes.

Catferret
02-01-2007, 14:31
Pretty reasonable gang to be honest. I definitely agree that your Heavy needs a rifle of some kind.

Shotguns can be converted from Lasguns by cutting power cell and barrel ends off and adding spare shells somewhere on the model.

Autoguns are easy, replace barrel end and power cell on a Lasgun with parts from a bolter.

Autopistols are similar to the Autogun converting technique. Just use a Laspistol as the base weapon.

Maybe using Catachan plastics as well for a little model variation and access to Swords and the more Necromunda-esque Lascarbines. No body armour and helmets either!

Some people seem to have had bad experiences facing Lasgun heavy gangs. Dunno why, I'd want a Lasgun if I was a Necromundan! But a little variation doesn't hurt and doesn't need to cost you any money if you follow my tips for converting weapons.

EVIL INC
02-01-2007, 15:12
Sounds good. I think I will start a conversion thread dedicated to nada but necromunda. Hopefully it will stay here as it is dedicated soley to a specialist game, if not, might have to follow it to a different section.

Melchiah
02-01-2007, 22:05
Thnx for the input guys, Im gonna try and convert up a shotty for the heavy. If that goes over well, maybe I'll do up a ganger with a shotgun.
So heavy Strubber and back up shotgun the heavy?
Oh ya BTW i took the flamer/genadier bracing arms for the spures, cut away the hands and re-glued them with knives from the SM spures looks great for the juves.

How come Nercomunda doesnt have a "sub forum" like Aeronautica Imperialis and WBBL? Seems popular enough.

Catferret
02-01-2007, 22:09
Nice work with the knives. A lasgun or autogun would give you longer range than a shotgun but shotguns have the "don't mess with me" thing going on.

Lord Humongous
02-01-2007, 22:23
Shotguns also have the massive benefit of ignoring cover (scatter shot) and offering a cheap upgrade path (manstoppers are almost manditory, bolt rounds are great for occasioan shots over 18 inches). Both features make them quite a good purchase for a newly started gang.

Melchiah
02-01-2007, 22:28
Dont you have to buy new rounds after every fight?

EVIL INC
02-01-2007, 22:37
Been a looong time but I dont think so any more then you have to rebuy batteries for the flashlights.

Melchiah
02-01-2007, 22:41
I thought they were treated like grenades.

Catferret
02-01-2007, 22:47
No, once you buy special ammo like Dumdums, Shotgun Ammo or Hotshot Power Packs you keep them till the guy carrying them dies.

Melchiah
02-01-2007, 22:48
Should I replace the bolter on the leader with a shotgun?

Oh ya, I had a look at a shotgun converton on another 40k site but i didnt much care for the "after" look and with the autoguns. Anyone have any pics? if not i can wing it

Catferret
02-01-2007, 23:04
Shotgun with Bolt Rounds is better than a Boltgun IMO because of the flexibility of other ammo and the Knockback rule. Looks a bit more interesting on the model too.

Look for Van Saar Weapon Sprue 3 in the Online Store. It looks like double barrelled lasgun thing but is actually a shotgun. If GW can do it, then so can you. Sorry I have no pictures.

EVIL INC
03-01-2007, 00:59
I think for looks, the boltgun looks cooler and is much more of a status symbol. After all, it is the weapons SPACE MARINES carry so in a small way, it likens the leader to then in the eyes of the peons. It also just looks impressive. For actual use and versitily though, I would go for the shotgun early on and then buy him a boltgun later after most of the gangers and such have good weapons.
It is up to you. I usually went with the bolt gun on leader for fluff purposes and loaded up on shotguns with his gangers. A lasgun was a rare sight in my gangs. Las pistals were comman but shotguns were my staple ganger gun even without the special rounds I never bought. Of course, I was the only one in our gaming group to actually save up for a missile launcher and missiles. lol :eek:

Catferret
03-01-2007, 01:04
@Evil Inc

Wow! Kudos to you. Having the guts to invest in a Missile Launcher. I won't even use Grenade Launchers because I think they are too expensive. How did it work out for you? I've never seen them achieve more than killing the user.

Lord Humongous
03-01-2007, 03:50
I thought they were treated like grenades.

They are. You don't have to buy new grenades either.
Once you buy a weapon or grenade / ammo type, its assumed you can re-stock on ammo in between games. In the case of grenades, the ammo just tends to be all there is...

I've seen a rocket launcher used before to good effect. It helped that the heavy was a weaponsmith with bulging biceps. This was under the old rules- that Str 4 large blast was UGLY.

I've actually used a GL in a couple gangs, with generally good results. Its not all that expensive, and the effect is quite good in proper circumstances. However, one gang was redemptionists (who can't take heavy weapons) and the other was a goliath gang that got the GL for free as part of a ransom deal.

EVIL INC
03-01-2007, 03:54
LOL. For the ML, I used one from the rtb01 box set onto the body of an orlock. It looked rather nice except that the guy didnt really look strong enough to be carrying it on his shoulder that way. The heavy using it only killed a VERY few men with it but his bodygaurd I gave him killed many who came after him. Even though he had a hard time hitting the broad side of a barn, he was a total attack magnet so he sucked them in while his bodygaurds got all the kills.

hunter5021
03-01-2007, 04:12
umm you list looks good but it seems like its a perfect starting list...but why buy your leader a extra weapon it just seems odd that your running a bare bones list with a littel extra thing like that

Catferret
03-01-2007, 15:12
Leaders get a backup weapon for when the Bolter runs out! You wanna maximise that BS4.

Caanaan
03-01-2007, 16:38
I prefer the heavy stubber for a beginning gang--better ammo roll and cheaper. If/when you get a heavy with a good BS and an armourer or two, then swap up for a heavy bolter.

Personally, I would change up some of the lasguns--but only cause I think a gang looks boring with all the same weapons. A shotgun is a good choice, since it can effectively become a bolter with a small upgrade later when money isn't such a big issue.

Otherwise, a nice solid gang to start with.

Catferret
03-01-2007, 16:48
Lasguns can also become bolters with an upgrade! But yeah, same weapon does look boring. I vary things by mixing gangers from different houses .

Heavy Stubbers are great. They are the cheapest way to earn you a lot of xp for your heavy until they can warrant something better through skills and improved BS.

Caanaan
03-01-2007, 16:54
True, but a hotshot power pack is a rare item that you have to roll up, bolt shells for your shotguns are always availible when you want them. Plus, it doesn't require any extra modeling to add a different shell type to a model, but a hot shot power pack really needs something. :P

Catferret
03-01-2007, 17:00
I agree totally, I was just saying that Lasguns can be modified. I use a Shotgun with Bolt on my Leader now. The only problem is the reduced short range but that is a minor consideration if you plan on firing at 24" most of the time.

Melchiah
04-01-2007, 04:46
Ok so here list 2, ya I know its monotone. Things will get spiced up once they start getting Skills (hopfully ones that kill and pay the bills)

155- Leader: Sword, Shotgun w/manstopper, Laspistol, man-stopper rounds
200- Heavy: Heavy Strubber, shotgun, Knife
75x 5 Gangers W/ Lasguns and Knives
40x 4 Juves W/ Lasgun and knives

Caanaan
04-01-2007, 12:26
One other thing--juves cannot take basic weaponry until they get enough experience to be full gangers. So, they can't start with lasguns. They can only have pistols, hand to hand weapons, and grenades.

I'd say just swap the lasguns out for autopistols and/or laspistols and you should be good.

Catferret
04-01-2007, 14:56
Looking at the cost of the Juves I'm guessing they actually have laspistols and it was just a typing error.

Melchiah, just to let you know I looked into how feasible converting wepons from lasguns is. I used Catachan style ones but Cadian should work ok too. 2 Lasguns and 1 Boltgun will make you an Autogun and Shotgun with no Green Stuff required.

For the Autogun simply cut off the end of the las barrel and stick on the bolter barrel. Cut off las power pack and replace with bolter magazine.

For the shotgun, cut the barrel off a lasgun real close to the body of the weapon. Cut away a section of the underneath section to the length of a bolter front hand grip. Remove the front handgrip from the bolter and stick it in that hole. Instant techy looking pumpaction or semiauto shotgun.

Hope that helps.

Melchiah
04-01-2007, 20:52
OOOPPPS!

Ya juvs are sappose to have laspistols. It was late last night. And I spend most of it gluing, cutting, regluing, nd so on. Ive converted 2 auto guns for 2 of my gangers as well as reshape a space wolf head on fit on to a cadian body ;) .

Kedlav
05-01-2007, 05:07
As far as the gang itself, I prefer to use autopistols on juves if they get a gun at all. The +2 to hit at short range allows juves to actually hit the broad side of the barn, which is obviously useful. You can also easily save money by dropping from a heavy bolter to a heavy stubber, which gives plenty of firepower. You've already seemed to have realized numbers and reliability mean everything, so try to get that extra guy on the table. Lastly, the chainsword on the leader IMO is a waste. For shooting type gangs(Van Saar and Orlocks) its best to use cheap, expendable guys as your combat guys(i.e. juves in numbers). Against the better combat gangs, you don't want your leader in there, as he's going to get popped. Against other shooting gangs, the fact that you've got a bunch of juves will help cover your **** by both providing fodder and combat support. If you are worried about combat, try to get a couple handflamers worked in early. Put the guy on overwatch when an enemy gets close, use it to pin, and then pump the bugger full of holes.

Catferret
05-01-2007, 05:17
@Kedlav

Orlocks actually have a slight emphasis on close combat. The Gangers get Close Combat and Ferocity as well as Shooting Skills.

I find a Chainsword is always worthwhile on your Leader. First as a status symbol, secondly as a S4 Parrying weapon.

Kedlav
05-01-2007, 09:24
Cheaper S4 weapons are available if you insist on having cc capability on the leader. I've always been against cc on the leader, as he's a very integral piece of the gang and when he goes down... bad things happen.

I'm aware of the Orlock skill set, but even with combat/ferocity, most orlocks are shooting skill first(at least around here), with guys that sport power weapons and +ws getting combat skills.

Catferret
05-01-2007, 15:43
It's the combination of S4 and a Parry that make chainswords good. For the occasions when your leader gets charged by Escher or Ratskins it gives you a chance rather than just getting mauled. That Parry has saved my Leader on more than one occasion and with the stupid new weapon lists, it is usually the only Parrying Weapon a Leader can start with. If you add a scabbarded sword to a model, it can be upgraded later if you find a Powersword.

What it really comes down to is personal preference. I'm paranoid about the hideous close combat gangs I have faced in the past so will always take some kind of defence. I also like overly equipping my Leader for the simple reason that he is the boss and will have more stuff! I like my Leader to be festooned with weapons. It looks cool.

I can see the merits of equipping everybody cheaply but I like Leaders and Heavies to stand out from the minions.

Melchiah
06-01-2007, 05:37
The guys in my gaming groups arent big on the way of CC gang or personal wise. So having some form of CC is better then nothing, an with the odd chance of my gun jaming up I might need to relay on my chainsworded leader and my juves, as unliky as it seems, you should see my rolls.

Catferret
06-01-2007, 06:49
It's known in many industries as "Due Diligence" or the belt and braces approach. If you prepare for the worst you will be better able to deal with a bad situation. Your main gun runs out of ammo so draw a backup. If that goes too then you still have a decent ccw which can't run out of ammo. Even if ammo isn't an issue, having flexibility to perform different roles is useful.

Melchiah
06-01-2007, 07:13
It's known in many industries as "Due Diligence" or the belt and braces approach. If you prepare for the worst you will be better able to deal with a bad situation.
What are you a boy scout?;)

Catferret
06-01-2007, 07:23
Nope. Something we were taught at uni!:D It's a big part of the brewing and distilling course.

Melchiah
06-01-2007, 07:28
You menched the idea of placing a scabbarded sword on the lead model. Can You recament a "human" sized one handed or bastard sword sizes?

Catferret
06-01-2007, 07:32
I've just ordered the Catachan Heavy Weapon crew sprue. It has some large but cool scabbarded swords. Mordheim Equipment sprue has one on which is a reasonable size. Inquisitor scale knife scabbards are fine as long as you change the handle sticking out the top!:)

EVIL INC
06-01-2007, 14:09
The older chaos warrior sprue had a great one. You can get good stuff like that out of fantasy regiments.

Lord Humongous
06-01-2007, 14:39
The Khorne Berserker sprues have sheathed swords on them. The scabbards are curved, suggesting a scimitar, and are pretty big- big enough for a non-marines chainsword, or maybe even a 2 handed weapon type sword. Its also possible to shorten them, as they have nice horizontal bands that make it easy to cut out a section and re-attach the hilt to suggest a smaller sword.

Most folks do not use this bit of bling on their berserkers, so you could proably score dozens of them free if you know some chaos players.

Melchiah
07-01-2007, 07:50
Most folks do not use this bit of bling on their berserkers, so you could proably score dozens of them free if you know some chaos players.
Hmmm, this calls for a portion...nay all my cunning to get one off one of the local brats for some bits.

Melchiah
07-01-2007, 09:36
How does this look now?\

155:Leader: Shotgun w/ manstopper rounds, Sword, Knive,
-Laspistol or autopistol? or should I just have a Sword and knive? Do i even get the extra attack with 2 CC weapons like that?

200:Heavy: Heavy Stubber, Lasgun
-If the Stubber fails, i "really" dont want the back up crapping out either.

40 X 4 Juves with Knives and autopistol.

70 X 2 Gangers with Autoguns and knives
75 X 3 Gangers with Lasgun and knives
75: Ganger with Shotgun w/ Manstopper rounds and Knive

Stash 45 Creadits?

Catferret
07-01-2007, 20:38
Definitely an Autopistol on the Leader. Maybe even some Bolt Shells for his Shotgun.
The Lasgun on the Heavy is a wise choice but I make it 205 Creds...;)
Good numbers of Gangers and Juves there. Good mixture of weapons. A solid looking gang overall I'd say.

Melchiah
08-01-2007, 06:27
Does the leader really need manstopper, sloid slug and bolter rounds?

Catferret
08-01-2007, 07:19
Does the leader really need manstopper, sloid slug and bolter rounds?

Ignore the Solid Slug that come free, Manstoppers are effectively an upgrade for them. They provide overall accuracy and armour piercing with good reliability. Solid Slug just aren't accurate enough. The Bolt rounds give you a long ranged option without having to alter the model! Manstopper rounds are really good but are limited to the Shotgun 18" range. Sometimes you really need that 24".

OK, they are an expensive upgrade and also unreliable. It comes down to what role you intend for the Leader. If he is going to be moving forward backing up the close combat elements then don't bother with Bolt Rounds.

I like flexibility so sometimes need that longer range option.

Palatine Katinka
08-01-2007, 14:17
155:Leader: Shotgun w/ manstopper rounds, Sword, Knive,
-Laspistol or autopistol? or should I just have a Sword and knive? Do i even get the extra attack with 2 CC weapons like that?

You don't get a 2nd attack if you have a basic weapon (shotgun) unless you use the experimental Quick Draw rules (or are a 3-armed Scavvy!).

Instead of a back-up pistol, take a back-up shotgun! When the first one is jammed by a Bolt Shell start firing the 2nd one! Remember, you will have run out of Bolt Shells though, so you'll have to start firing Manstopper Shells. ;) Model it as a pair of sawn-offs, one in each hand! That would look cool for an Orlock Leader. :D

I always wanted a Heavy with 2 plasma guns, fire one while the other recharges, never had the creds though... :cries:

Catferret
08-01-2007, 14:44
You don't get a 2nd attack if you have a basic weapon (shotgun) unless you use the experimental Quick Draw rules (or are a 3-armed Scavvy!).


Or a 17-armed Pit Slave Chief! As many arms as you want. Free extra robot arms for all!:D