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matticusmaximus
02-01-2007, 17:26
I was thinking the other day about my WIP Empire, and it came to mind that a lot of Empire-hate is going to be generated soon, due to the Stank, rocket thing, robo-horse, outriders, etc. Sort of along the same lines as the Skaven SAD. I decided that I didn't want to be that one dude who everyone hates at the gaming club, so making a steampunk Empire army would be out of the question.

And then I thought, is it possible to make a really old-school empire army? Like, just solid blocks of infantry, supported by archers and crossbowmen, and knights to act as a sledge. Toss in a couple cannons for giggles, and you've got a pretty realistic (sans the magic and magic items) Renaissance era force.

Thoughts? Would this be viable and competitive?

Palatine Katinka
02-01-2007, 17:39
I think so...
The State Troops are very cheap on the points and Knights still rock.
Glad to see you said archers and crossbowmen as handgunners are scary. Too many long rifles available.

Commissar Vaughn
02-01-2007, 17:44
well its the way I play me Empire Army and it doesnt do too badly, never did like gimicks in my armies! All you need is your faith in Sigmar!

Move Fast Hit Low
02-01-2007, 18:08
i dont mind the addition of outriders to the empire army, and from all the whining from empire players about how crappy the steam tank is i would enjoy going up against one, but not two, point is as long as you dont play a gunline i wont give a rats ass what you play with, since you spent all that time and money building your empire army, and if the people you play with dont like that you have a themed army than screw them, you shouldnt be playing with people like that anyway, but if you play gunline then i will kick you in the nuts

Crazy Harborc
02-01-2007, 18:45
Most of the time crossbows do the job as well/better than handguns. Cannons are only deadly IF you can guess what number will come up on the artillery range die. Guess within an inch or two and you'll likely roll a 8 or 10 on that darn die!!

By the by......an Empire Army will likely have 4-8 casting dice and 4-6 dispel dice.....facing off against 9-14 and 8 to 12 on the opponent's magic dice pile. Why the heck shouldn't an Empire army have a gunline??

althathir
02-01-2007, 19:05
By the by......an Empire Army will likely have 4-8 casting dice and 4-6 dispel dice.....facing off against 9-14 and 8 to 12 on the opponent's magic dice pile. Why the heck shouldn't an Empire army have a gunline??

I don't really get this point. First of all there really isn't anything stopping an empire army from having a gunline and a lot of powerdice. Also a gunline is usually superior to magic, in the first place, because you can't use a dispel scroll to stop a cannon from firing, or a unit of handgunners etc., finally there are very few armies that can run 9 to 14 powerdice, and you aren't going to run into many that are in the 8 to 12 range in this new edition and the armies that are in 9 to 14 range are already considered cheese (i.e seercouncil). The main point I am trying to make is that 1) gunlines are pretty good 2)mages are good but not great 3) empire can have just as much magic as everyone else (except HE and Tzencth (sp) and that makes sense). So I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Axel
02-01-2007, 19:24
Most of the time crossbows do the job as well/better than handguns.
Except when well armoured targets head in, especially Knights.



Cannons are only deadly IF you can guess what number will come up on the artillery range die. Guess within an inch or two and you'll likely roll a 8 or 10 on that darn die!!

If you are able to guess within an inch or two you just need to subtract 11" from your guess and hit 41% (15/36). If you are confident that you guess mark on the base, subtract just 10 and get a 55% reliability on a direct hit. If you shoot a unit with more ranks, add the odd inch or two to aim for the mid of the unit.
The good point with cannons is that they can also be deadly if you are a very poor marksman (read: guessman), due to its deviation.



Why the heck shouldn't an Empire army have a gunline??
Perhaps because many armies out there are better in close combat?
I don`t play a gunline (anymore), but its a valid and usefull tactic.

Crazy Harborc
02-01-2007, 21:13
Well, I was responding more to critics of the past/other posts with my gunline post. One often read/heard claim against Empire is that it's too cheesey because of all the handgunners/cannons etc. Usually, that is likely said by people who have loads of casting/dispel dice and little to stop those incoming shots and shells.

I was responding to Move Fast Hit Low's comment about gunlines and appling a foot in a painful way.

Axil......thanks for the formula. I have a bad habit of spending too much time trying to guess what I'll roll on the die for distance

alenui
03-01-2007, 08:48
I just played last night with my mates empire using the new rules and took this list:

Wizard lord
2 warrior priests
mounted captain
30 halberdiers
30 swordsmen
10 hand gunners
10 crossbowmen
6 knights
6 knights
6 IC White wolves
6 pistoliers
cannon
mortar

I used it against dwarfs and found it worked really well obviously it hasn't been throughly play tested but it seems nicely balanced.

Braad
03-01-2007, 09:35
If you think 5 tanks and 5 rocket batteries for example would be cheesy and none would be a losers army, then why not just take one tank or one battery?
Or one unit of gunmen or so.

If you ask me, you can field any unit you like, but only few freaky, heavy killing machines and with a normal balanced army around it. That won't be cheesy I think.
And if you pick a different army everytime, then in the end you can field anything you like, only not at the same time.

On the other hand, the army you proposed seems worthy of battle to me.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
03-01-2007, 20:27
TVI Empire is by far the funnest game to be found around. I got thrashed by one a year ago but gosh it was tense. I don't mind the new turn the empire has taken, although I can imagine many will. They're going to be overpowered, but that's how all GW human armies have to be. This another one of those army books written by a hard-core fan...

Mephistofeles
03-01-2007, 20:34
Well, I play an Empire Horde, I have no Stank, I have two cannons but no helblaster, I have a Wizard Lord as my magic and a BSB as my Leadership-booster, and the rest is just infantry. 250 of them to be exact. And it works darn well I can tell you that.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
04-01-2007, 13:49
As someone who refused to play against Empire armies containing the Steam Tank in 6th Edition (formerly known as the Stank), I will now say that the Steam Tank is fair, balanced, and actually looks like it would be fun to face.

It is the single best change to the book in my opinion...

Blagrot Squigbreff
04-01-2007, 20:41
and the rest is just infantry. 250 of them to be exact.

That's alot of infantry:eek: , how many are shooting and how many HtH.

To the OP, your force should be fine - crossbows are good shooters, knights are still powerful and infantry are decent, a bit of artillery and magic to round it out.

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
05-01-2007, 20:37
I commend you, mattmax. Us old school infantry commanders are a dying breed. These new gits fielding Empire armies are blinded by all the shiney new trinkets the Empire has received, but when you come down to it, any old Fieldmarshall will tell you that those things are just too darn unreliable to base a battle plan around. Now, I'm not saying you ought not to take any artillery, or no blackpowder, or anything... but don't make those things the foundation of your force. Anything that can misfire is by definition unreliable. I've never rolled a misfire when ordering my Halberdiers to charge something.

To field an infantry army effectively, you need to remember two very important things: "leadership is crucial," and "no unit (that wants to stay alive) is an island." Big infantry units with detatchments are a mainstay, and things like GreatSwords and Flagellants are great to cover your flanks where being outside of the leadership radius would make other units a bit shakier. Always take an Empire General- he can fight in a support capacity, has good leadership, isn't stuck in a Knight unit (where his leadership abilities are largely wasted), and lets you take a banner on an infantry unit. Plop him in an infantry unit in the center of your line, with a BSB in the same unit or close by, and your center ain't going anywhere for a while. Mix in some crossbows/handgunner units, and a cannon or two (I prefer a cannon and a mortar- cannon for the big gribblies, mortar for unit killing), and you got a solid line of infantry bristling with guns and halberds. It would make any old landsknecht proud. Anchor one flank with Greatswords or Flagellants, and your line becomes even more solid. A unit of IC Knights, supported by pistoliers and you'll have a damn fine army.

That's the key, lad. Men, swords, guns, guts, and a pair big enough to use the rest of that stuff, in a world where everybody is tougher, stronger, faster, meaner, scarier, etc. Be tenacious, shoot 'em up good, and gang up on any enemies unfortunate enough to reach your line. Flank charge everything with detatchments, and slug it out with the bastards until they run off. Warrior Priests help with this- Hatred is really useful (especially with your Greatswords).

Hope my little schpeil helps. Good luck.
Cheers.

Crazy Harborc
06-01-2007, 00:47
Got the new armybook today. Saw all the new shinies. Been checking out the new minies in WD and or on-line. Then, I've been looking at my current minies and old Empire rosters.

Then there's my preferred tactics. No "need" for the new minies OR "different" rosters.:D

Now....my Army Builder will require more math for awhile:D

Sanjuro
06-01-2007, 00:57
I've never rolled a misfire when ordering my Halberdiers to charge something.



You've never charged fear-causers, then. ;)

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
06-01-2007, 19:15
Point conceded, but there are cheap banners or magic items that can make your units immune to fear or terror. There's no such item pertaining to artillery. A re-roll is something, but no artillery piece is immune to misfires.
Cheers.