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Sylass
02-01-2007, 20:27
>>> ALERT: Fantasy player invading 40k territory! <<<

:p

*ahem*

Hi,

I'm not a 40k player but this game made me curious...mostly because it reminds me a bit of the old fantasy based Man O'War game (oh, that said, please drop me a PM in case you have a copy of MoW spare!).

So...did anyone have a look at the rules for Aeronautica Imperialis yet? Do you think it would be possible to create a fantasy based version using the AI rules set?

Thanks for your thoughts/help. :)

Brother Loki
03-01-2007, 10:46
Haven't seen the rules for AI, but I suspect you may be better off looking at Battlefleet Gothic as a source of insipration for a fantasy ship game. From what I've read, altitude is very integral to the mechanics of AI - its a very three dimensional game - whereas BFG operates with the abstraction that space is flat. BFG ships behave much more like sailing vessels, with broadsides, crossing the T and in the eldar's case (solar) wind direction affecting their speed and handling.

Sylass
03-01-2007, 19:14
Mmmh, didn't know about the altitude thing. I guess you are right then. For a ship/fleet based fantasy game, it'd need a 2 dimensional approach, not a 3D one.

I'll take a look at BFG then (in the process of downloading the rules while typing this :))...

Thanks.

Stouty
03-01-2007, 20:27
BFG could be very nicely adapted to a fantasy naval game, the guy that got me into it persuaded me with "Master and commander...in space!" Boarding parties, vessal ramming... all great stuff.

Eldar could have the solar winds changed for the normal winds, some simple rules for the winds switching would be good as well (it's not like eldar are ever going to be a weak fleet).

In fact it would make sense if everyone used some sort of solar wind system with only dwarfs getting to use normal movement (as they have no sails). Hell the dwarfs could use the torpedo rules:evilgrin:

Lots of scope in BFG.

de Selby
03-01-2007, 20:29
I like the idea of AI rules for dragon to dragon combat. With the rumoured new GW dragons. And really big tables...

:D

azazel_fallenangel
05-01-2007, 14:10
You could always use the flying Warmaster models. Dragons and Eagles,
etc...

Sylass
06-01-2007, 10:23
Flying Fantasy Monster combat...sounds good! But wouldn't there maybe be a worrying lack of diversity/lack of suitable miniatures for the different races?

Let's see...

Empire: Dragon
Griffon
Pegasus


Orks & Goblins: Wyern
Doom Divers (?)


Bretonnia: Dragon
Hippogriffon
Pegasus
Pegasusknights

Vampire Counts: Zombie Dragon
Winged Nightmare
Fell Bats

Chaos: Chaos Dragon
Chimera
Gargoyles
Greater Daemons/Daemon Princes (?)


Wood Elves: Green Dragon
Great Eagle

High Elves: White Dragon
Griffon
Hippogriffon
Great Eagle


Dark Elves: Black Dragon
Manticore
Dark Pegasus
Harpies

Dwarfs: Zeppelin
War Balloon
Gyrocopter


Lizardmen: Teradon Riders


Ogre Kingdoms: ...


Skaven: ...


Mercenaries: Arsanil & Dragon
Birdmen of Catrazza


Chaos Dwarfs: Great Taurus
Lamassu



Mmmh, not that bad...

grave digger
06-01-2007, 17:10
Not too bad for diversity. In AI were looking at:

Chaos: two choices
Imperial: four choices
Orks: two choices
Tau: three or four choices
Necrons: zero
Tyranids: zero
Squats: squat:)
Eldar: three choices
Dark Eldar: Eldar choices painted black

Not all that different I would say.

Diggs

de Selby
08-01-2007, 13:40
Now we need someone with all the relevant rulebooks to work out if it's plausible or not. I think the warhammer choices pass the diversity test if the actual AI stuff does; they're comparable.

Would it be possible to lift troop types directly out of the warhammer armybooks and map their rules onto AI rules? Many of those on the list are heavily customisable character choices, which would solve diversity problems at a stroke if the options could be represented inside the AI rules...

nick
08-01-2007, 15:13
Now we need someone with all the relevant rulebooks to work out if it's plausible or not. I think the warhammer choices pass the diversity test if the actual AI stuff does; they're comparable.

Would it be possible to lift troop types directly out of the warhammer armybooks and map their rules onto AI rules? Many of those on the list are heavily customisable character choices, which would solve diversity problems at a stroke if the options could be represented inside the AI rules...
I have read the books and I think it should be possible although you might struggle with combat as you would have close combat mainly instead of ranged firing. It would probably end up being a game where you chase the other players units around but as players take alternate moves.

Nick

Sylass
08-01-2007, 16:10
Thanks for the info Nick.

Well, if we'd just assume that it's a war/fight of Wizards riding different monsters we'd have ranged combat again (spells, magic weapons, monster's breath attacks). :)

Ruleswise I'd aim at directly copying AI rules to the fantasy counterparts (e.g. Thunderbolt = Hero/Mage on Pegasus). Prevents a whole lot of messing with the AI rules to convert them into a whole different game.

My main concern would be to find suitable AI/Epic/Warmaster scale miniatures for a game like that. :(

I expect you'd need a table the size of the average apartment if you'd try to play using the 28mm WHFB miniatures?! :eek:

de Selby
08-01-2007, 18:14
I expect you'd need a table the size of the average apartment if you'd try to play using the 28mm WHFB miniatures?! :eek:

Sounds ideal. :D I once wrote a set of rules for jetbike racing which were 'playtested' by racing the bikes all around the ground floor of my house. I only had to rescale for the tabletop because at the time I lived with normal humans.

Realistically, you may be right that the best mod to begin with is just to use existing AI flyer types to represent fantasy miniatures. I'm not that bothered about scale; dragons presumably fly slower than jet fighters so the movement rates could be 'right' even if the models are on a larger scale. Or just accept that the ground scale and model scale are different, as in Battlefleet Gothic.

Sylass
08-01-2007, 18:52
Just a quick question which might help solving the size issue: Is AI using something like hex-fields on the tabletop or is it a "raster-free" game like WHF where you measure the distances?

bladestalker
08-01-2007, 19:01
HAs anyone seen the rules for AI yet?

nick
08-01-2007, 21:44
Just a quick question which might help solving the size issue: Is AI using something like hex-fields on the tabletop or is it a "raster-free" game like WHF where you measure the distances?
All movement in AI is in inches but you also have manoeuvre cards see below:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/mancards.jpg

The idea is that you can use those card during the movement turn to extend/modify the normal movement. One interesting point is that you have to write down the card you plan to use at the start of the turn and you cannot change your mind.

Nick

Sylass
09-01-2007, 08:57
Thanks for the additional info. :)

What are the movement rates like? What's the average movement in AI? How much can you modify/extend the movement by using these cards?

WHFB uses 20" for flying movement, I guess AI uses a much smaller scale?

nick
09-01-2007, 19:41
Thanks for the additional info. :)

What are the movement rates like? What's the average movement in AI? How much can you modify/extend the movement by using these cards?

WHFB uses 20" for flying movement, I guess AI uses a much smaller scale?
I can't actually check now as I have given the book to the person who I'm planning to review with. I'll let someone else field that question until I get the book back.

Nick

CELS
10-01-2007, 00:43
You wouldn't have to be a wizard though, for ranged combat in such a game. Just look at Legolas. I'm sure wood elves would do equally well. And then you have dark elves with repeater crossbows or whatever they're called, and the empire with their flashy guns. Bretonnians might need some help though, as they'd be flying around cursing the other race's cowardly conduct. Of course, this would allow a vast amount of Monty Python jokes... hmm...

rkunisch
10-01-2007, 09:54
Dragon...

Birdmen of Catrazza

Well, that looks like an interesting match. :eek:

Have fun,

Rolf.

Sylass
10-01-2007, 10:04
Well, that looks like an interesting match. :eek:

Have fun,

Rolf.

Thanks for reminding me that Dogs of War have access to a Dragon rider (Arsanil ?) too. ;)