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TheEndIsHere
03-01-2007, 00:14
Ok this is what happened:

-Me in tourny
-Me can win tourny but end up second cause of stupid GW
-Me hate GW

Well the tourny went well until i went in the finnals:
-Me(necron) against enemy(khorne).
-End turn 5: I own 1 table table quarters and my opponent 3 other ones.
-His last turn 2 weaponless dread engage in bloodrage/fire Frenzy but turns in blood rage so they assault each other in the last quarter *his only units in there and the only ones that could be there in this turn* they don't kill each other *str6* *Me: hahaha*.
-My last turn I get one immortal sqad in that quarter and I can get that immortal squad, a warrior squad and two destroyer squads to shoot the dreads but then apparently since the dreads are in CC I can't shoot em... AND THE JUDGE AGREES!!!
-End of game I in win VPs until we get quarters VPs (1 for me, 2 for him 1 contested).

But the worst part:
Him: I knew I'd win, my tactics were better you had no chance.:p
Me::eek: :mad: :wtf:

We need rules for shooting at thing like that, I lost 100 GW $s... Also the judge is a World Eater player...

I hate this!!!

TheEndIsNear

Grimtuff
03-01-2007, 00:17
:wtf:

Apart from the awful language in that post (I had a job reading that), Nowhere in the rules for Blood Rage does the Dreadnought have to charge a friendly unit.

Seth the Dark
03-01-2007, 00:19
Wow. What was the point of this?

Angelus Mortis
03-01-2007, 00:21
:wtf:

Apart from the awful language in that post (I had a job reading that), Nowhere in the rules for Blood Rage does the Dreadnought have to charge a friendly unit.Thats what I was trying to figure out lol! I was like "what the hell is he talking about"?

To the OP, perhaps you and whoever was running the tourny should get more familiar with the army lists.

TheEndIsHere
03-01-2007, 00:21
I know I made it that way plus english isn't my first language...

I think it says if no enemy units in LOS the dread has to charge the closest unit...

TheEndIsHere

LostTemplar
03-01-2007, 00:21
You win, he lost. Charging can only be done against enemy units.

Not even the Chaos Dreadnought rules change this he can only FIRE when he's in one of the two possible rage modes.

Grimtuff
03-01-2007, 00:23
I know I made it that way plus english isn't my first language...



No worries. The whole "me in tourney" makes you sound like a Caveman. ;)

xibo
03-01-2007, 00:24
Maybe I'm not up to date with all this errata stuff, but AFAIK Khorne Dreads don't Charge each other o_O.
Also it's not GW's fault that your judge is a rules lawyer.
'you can shoot into any combat where neither you nor an ally of yours is concerned.' -local GW redshirt

LostTemplar
03-01-2007, 00:25
Yep. You can shoot into Cloee combat when none of the units are friendlies. you just cannot shoot Friendly models, the rest is all alrighty.

TheEndIsHere
03-01-2007, 00:26
ARGH!!!!

Thats even worst!!!

I Hate the judge/player!!

TheEndIsHere

Lastie
03-01-2007, 00:27
Blood Rage does not force a Dreadnought to charge a friendly unit. While the judge was correct in that you couldn't shoot into close combat, TheEndIsHere, your opponent was mistaken in charging his own units in the first place. We're only Human; mistakes unfortunately happen, and I'd keep this one in mind to prevent a second occurance.

Angelus Mortis
03-01-2007, 00:30
Ok now Im irritated. Someone help me out here. Where in the 4th edition rules does it say you cant shoot into melee. I was trying to look it up to get a good read on it, and Ill be damen if I cant find the rule.

Tom
03-01-2007, 00:32
Actually, if the opponent (yopu) had no units in line of sight, the dreadnought BRs into the closest friendly unit. I've had it happen, hilarious.

Which is whyyou ALWAYS keep units in line of sight of them.


Also, there is no place in our hobby for hyper-competitive tournament play. Theymade a mistake. Any decent playerwould point it out, but not bitch about it. On the internet. Tournament play is killing 40K.

Lastie
03-01-2007, 00:39
Actually, if the opponent (yopu) had no units in line of sight, the dreadnought BRs into the closest friendly unit. I've had it happen, hilarious.


That's Fire Frenzy.

Tom
03-01-2007, 00:43
Hmm. So it is. How wrong I am.


I think it's a case in point that a six-year Chaos veteran's having to look it up in the codex to confirm. Blimey.

Common error, eh?

Lord Malek The Red Knight
03-01-2007, 00:47
Ok now Im irritated. Someone help me out here. Where in the 4th edition rules does it say you cant shoot into melee. I was trying to look it up to get a good read on it, and Ill be damen if I cant find the rule.
p44, rulebook, bottom right.

~ Tim

Angelus Mortis
03-01-2007, 00:53
p44, rulebook, bottom right.

~ TimAha, thank you. I was looking up in the front by the pick a target rules. Go figure.

Anyways, I dont see where it says anything about it being friendly or unfriendly. That being said though, if indeed a Chaos Dread was forced to charge another one, exactly how long would they be considered locked in combat? Shouldnt just be their assault phase which would mean come the other players turn, they would no longer be locked?

Brushmonkey
03-01-2007, 01:27
Tournament play is killing 40K.

No it's not, don't be silly.:rolleyes:

Misanthrope
03-01-2007, 01:56
Yes I concur, Dreadnoughts won't CHARGE friendly units. If they roll and get Fire Frenzy, but have no targets in range (friendly or not) or no weapons, then the roll is treated like a Blood Rage in which case they'll move towards the nearest enemy unit. Not friendly unit. That sounds like a stupid judge and a slimy player, perhaps. But not GW's fault.

The only thing that might be ruining 40K is players who always try to sneak one past their opponents, cheat, bend rules, etc. I'm sure we ALL know one of those.

Da Reddaneks
03-01-2007, 02:03
sounds like the khorne player doesnt know the rules and neither did your judge. That really has nothing to do with GW. And even assuming arguendo that they did things correctly the dreads attacking each other would have fit into the "fluke" catagory.

Just go forth and kick butt in your next game!

Vedar
03-01-2007, 02:26
Yes, the Dreads should have charged the nearest ememy model. The Chaos player needs to re-read his rules.

Hellebore
03-01-2007, 02:27
Tournament play is killing 40K.

Oh, BAM!
BAM!
BAM!
BAM!
And for you Tom, another BAM!

This is why I never play tournaments - when prizes are involved the game, it becomes about winning at all costs, rather than playing a fun game. Especially when you've already sunk money into the tournament.

Tournaments are glorified casinos, you gamble your own money on the outcome of the competition.

Not fun.

I don't pay to play.

Hellebore

nightgash
03-01-2007, 02:52
Dark Eldar Warp Beasts will charge the nearest unit being friend or foe if the beastmaster is killed.

scwolf
03-01-2007, 04:16
Dark Eldar Warp Beasts will charge the nearest unit being friend or foe if the beastmaster is killed.

That's nice. However Dark Eldar Warp Beasts are 0-0 choices on the CSM list, which is what this guy's opponent was playing.

adreal
03-01-2007, 06:12
That's nice. However Dark Eldar Warp Beasts are 0-0 choices on the CSM list, which is what this guy's opponent was playing.

that's seemy rude right there, the guy was just showing that thier is precident in GW rules for a unit in an army charging friendlies, so it's possible that the Judge may have been thinking of them when letting the two dreds (or whatever) fight each other

scwolf
03-01-2007, 06:23
And a tournament judge should be aware of nuances between codeices, or they aren't worth the title.

HalfEvil333
03-01-2007, 06:35
The judge probably wasn't even thinking about the Dreads charging each other. He was pulled to settle the dispute about whether you can shoot into combat. At most, he should only be blamed for not asking, "Uh... can you do that?"

the anti santa
03-01-2007, 08:12
As stated before the rules were done wrong for the dreadnoughts.

But next time you may want to concentrate on the mission in hand and try to get some units ready to claim/contest those table 1/4s in the last couple of turns.

Sounds like your opponent concentrated on the mission more than you did, even had you been allowed to shoot those dreads they could have survived and you still would have lost.

Brushmonkey
03-01-2007, 08:50
Oh, BAM!
BAM!
BAM!
BAM!
And for you Tom, another BAM!

This is why I never play tournaments - when prizes are involved the game, it becomes about winning at all costs, rather than playing a fun game. Especially when you've already sunk money into the tournament.

Tournaments are glorified casinos, you gamble your own money on the outcome of the competition.

Not fun.

I don't pay to play.

Hellebore

Or perhaps they're places where you can get out, meet some new people, play some new armies and have a fun time.

6 years of tournaments and i've enjoyed every one! :eek:

Mr_Smiley
03-01-2007, 11:22
That is some really bad luck, that judge should really have checked that one out first by deciding.


p44, rulebook, bottom right.

~ Tim

Ok maybe I'm missing something but where does it say, in that paragraph, that you can shoot into CC not involving friendly units?

Misanthrope
03-01-2007, 11:27
It's in the "spirit" of it. It mentions you not being able to because your troops are unwilling to fire on their comrades, which obviously wouldn't be the case when firing on CC that doesn't contain friendlies. That's good enough for me IMO (and I think if that had happened to me and someone tried to pull that in a game I'd promptly and silently pack up my army and walk away.)

IJW
03-01-2007, 11:27
Ok maybe I'm missing something but where does it say, in that paragraph, that you can shoot into CC not involving friendly units?
It doesn't. But someone had asked where the rules about shooting into combat are in the rulebook, and Tim obliged.

John Vaughan
03-01-2007, 18:37
This reminds me of the time I lost a mega battle, because my friend was using an older rulebook. I used my librarians force sword on one of his characters, and killed him. Because it wasn't in his old rulebook, I couldn't do that. His character attacked, and my librarian was torn asunder. Drat!