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indierockclimber
12-07-2005, 20:37
I live in an area where the closest Games Workshop store is 100 miles away, and only have 3 friends who play. And of them, only me and one other guy have big enough armies to field decent WH40K battles (we're all newbies learning together).

My friend and I play chaos and guard respectively, and each have armies of around 2000 pts. Just to give us a break, and allow our other friends to catch up with their minis and painting and all... I wanted to explore some alternative games.

We don't want to spend a lot of money, so I am asking what is *really* needed to get started playing BFG or Necromunda?

I really like the idea of BFG since the starter kit for 50 bucks is guard vs chaos, and we could so easily tie it into a big campaign. Also, huge space battles are so awesome. But is that kit really enough to make for huge epic feeling space battles?

Keep in mind I know very little about either game system, so any help or input would be greatly appreciated!

mostholycerebus
12-07-2005, 21:41
We don't want to spend a lot of money, so I am asking what is *really* needed to get started playing BFG or Necromunda?

You could play some really nice games of BFG straight out of the box set. The basic cruiser sprues for each fleet can be assembled in up to 7 different types of ship, about 200 points each. Both lists have a battle cruiser that can be assembled out of the sprues too, those are about 300 points. So, you're talking about 2 fleets of 750-1,000 points, 4 ships each, just put of the box set. If you get two box sets and swap sprues, you will both have a pretty damn large fleet, as well as all the rules, templates, and counters needed to play.

Expanding is pretty inexpensive too. Larger metal ships field from 300-400 points, and cost from $20-$35 each. So, if you don't wanna get 2 box sets and field a cruiser-heavy fleet, just get one box set, split the sprues, you each buy a flagship, and you should both have around 1,250 points.

From an economical standpoint, Chaos probably does better with nothing but the plastic cruisers. Imperial Navy could use a few of the smaller metal cruisers and escorts, but also does well with just cruisers. So Chaos is probably slightly cheaper to field, if you don't mind going all-cruisers.

Right now on the specialist Games forum there is a thread about the best fleets you can make from the starter box set. There is also quite a bit about expanding your fleet. It's probably worth a read.

BFG is probably not only GW's most economical game, but the one with their most solid rules set. The rules are very tight, the ships are well balanced, and unlike 40k the system as a whole undergoes an official revision every year. This year they are revising the basic ruleset, which will basically be a very few minor tweaks (moving ship points up or down 5 points). 2nd edition will be a complete netbook, you will download it and print it out yourself. With that in mind, simply getting 1 box set and playing a few games is a very viable idea.

On that subject, if you DO get two boxes, you can buy them locally, for $100 plus sales tax, likely around $110. Or you can order from The Warstore and get them both in 3-5 days for $80 shipped. As always it's nice to support your FRIENDLY Local Game Store, but I know what it's like to be broke. ;) Plus Neal is just great.



But is that kit really enough to make for huge epic feeling space battles?

IMO, almost but not quite. If you go with 3 cruisers and the battlecruiser, it's pretty close to an epic space battle feel. But with just 8 models on the board, that's stretching it. I prefer either: 2 box sets (8 ships each, and up to 2 battlecruisers each), box set plus flagship (5 ships each, one of which is larger, looks great, and gives that epic feel), or a box set and 1-2 blisters of escorts (4 cruisers clash while smaller ships dart in and out ).

So, in short, I would probably put an order into the Warstore for a box set and 2 extra's, either a flagship or escort blister for each list. That should put you over $75 so you get free shipping, as well as 20% off retail on your order, and make for some fun games for a long time. I can't express how fun this game is, how nice the models are, and how great it is to go from 40k to such a solid and well-supported game. Now I need to get some more players around here. :D

indierockclimber
12-07-2005, 22:11
Wow, that definitely sounds great. I have a little more money to spend then my friend (who would be fielding chaos), so I have no problem shelling out a bit extra to get me a big ol' cruiser.

That being said, is it tough to plan out your fleet from the boxset? I mean when I first got the IG codex I sort of planned an army... and several hundred dollars and hours of painting later realized some things kinda sucked...

And with so many options for a cruiser to get started... is it easy to decide what to build?

Also, where can you download the fixed rulebooks, have they done that yet?

I also see there is another book with extra army lists and stuff, any idea if that's worth it?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be well informed before jumping in. This game looks awesome the more I read about it!

PS, if you live around central VA I'd be more than happy to game sometime!

mostholycerebus
12-07-2005, 23:15
That being said, is it tough to plan out your fleet from the boxset? I mean when I first got the IG codex I sort of planned an army... and several hundred dollars and hours of painting later realized some things kinda sucked...

There are few 'bad' choices in the BFG main book. The development team is always reviewing ships and making suggested corrections. There are 2 or 3 suggested rules changes widely in effect, they have been for awhile and will probably be included in the revision due in 2005/2006. The only one I can remeber now is that the chaos battlecruiser is a little overcosted, and the Devestation is about 5 points undercosted.


And with so many options for a cruiser to get started... is it easy to decide what to build?

Options are somewhat limitd by what you get with the plastic cruisers. Each cruiser os a hull sprue, and a weapons sprue with 1 of each weapon. Frex, if you field a ship with 2 lances on each side, not every ship will be able to have lances.


Also, where can you download the fixed rulebooks, have they done that yet?

IIRC they are still in the revision phase, but then it will be on the Specialist Games BFG site.


I also see there is another book with extra army lists and stuff, any idea if that's worth it?

It adds some new ships and fleet lists. It's supposed to be decent.

Here (http://www.specialist-games.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=56) is a great thread on the starting box ships.

fracas
12-07-2005, 23:53
here is another voice of encouragement to start BFG
great game because of great rules and models
it flows really nicely.
all for a reasonable price!

consider picking up a starter kit each, then swapping with your friend the respective 4 plastic cruisers so that you each have 8. if so, there is little risk of making a poor choice (as i don't think there is really a bad choice) when it comes to cruisers.
with 8 i would build 2 different battle cruisers
of the remaining 6 i would build at least 2 carriers.


also consider buying the "armada" book as it has additional ships for both chaos and imperial, as well as other fleet lists.

proximity
13-07-2005, 02:19
*wipes tear* I miss my BFG imperial fleet, It had over 60 ships.. I should really get that out of storage one of these days.

indierockclimber
13-07-2005, 03:52
Wow after looking over the rules and considering the price of the models, I am definitely ordering a BFG starter kit. Thanks so much! This sounds so amazing.

Riftwalker
13-07-2005, 03:58
Ahh, BFG. The reason I even have something that could be called a gaming group. Never mind that my local GW doesn't sell it.

Other than what's been said, I want to reinforce that the starter box is excellent. For one thing, the ships are generally easy to paint. Although it's only four cruisers, these can each take 8 hits, so it's not like the game will be too small. It might not be epic size-wise, but the moments certainly are. BFG just has that aspect to it. (Case in point: in a Chaos v. Chaos match, my Desolater BB took an assault boat wave, starting a critical chain reaction. It lost all shields, port and prow weapons, thrusters and engines. I returned the favor by reducing HIS Despoiler to vapor. Sorry, cool war story got me going.) What I'm saying is that the rules make for exciting, epic feeling moments even in the box set.

Obviously, read through the rules before deciding on your ships. Get an idea of how YOU would play the game. Do you want a gun-heavy fleet, charging in to the enemy lines and tearing them up? Do you want a carrier fleet, swamping your foes with bombers? IMHO, that's FAR more important than the fleet being "good", because I've found it quite balanced. So, do what you'd enjoy doing.

You know, this turned into a bit of a rant. Probably because of the time. Hopefully it contained some useful information, though.

Alco Engineer
13-07-2005, 03:59
Don't give up on Necromunda so quickly. It's a great game too. The cool thing about it is that if you'd like you can convert your own models for it too(especially if you have any extra guard lying around) It can be a great chance to break out and do something different for a change. and it enables you to upgrade all of your gangers as you progress.

just think about it.

indierockclimber
13-07-2005, 04:25
Oh I do think Necromunda sounds awesome, it's just that BFG with the easy starter kit, combined with our love of this type of game (the very first table top game we ever played was a home brew space combat game using quarters and pennies).

Thanks Rift, my next question was going to be: how long does it take to paint the ships. I am very excited about making terrain and the like.

If anyone lives around here (central VA) and is looking for some new people who are into playing for fun (we don't cheese lists to win, and vehemently dislike the idea of playing in a tournament) let me know. Our local store is over 100 miles away, so our gaming group is just the few of us.

Alco Engineer
13-07-2005, 04:29
You mentioned it mainly as a distraction while your other mates are finishing their armies. You can play necro for free as the living rule book is availiable on the net from GW's website and you can always use IG models for gangers but its just a thought. I'm not a big BFG fan so that's Y I'm fighting for the other team

mostholycerebus
13-07-2005, 04:43
Thanks Rift, my next question was going to be: how long does it take to paint the ships.

Not long at all. They can be painted to an excellent look with some basic drybrushing and detail picking. You could do the 4 ships in a day, or spend a little more time with them.


You can play necro for free as the living rule book is availiable on the net from GW's website...

The BFG rulebook was just uploaded too. They also have almost every expansion on their site, and the Spanish and German GW sites have the Armada book scanned as well.

fracas
13-07-2005, 14:04
If anyone lives around here (central VA) and is looking for some new people who are into playing for fun (we don't cheese lists to win, and vehemently dislike the idea of playing in a tournament) let me know. Our local store is over 100 miles away, so our gaming group is just the few of us.
i am in Richmond

indierockclimber
13-07-2005, 14:14
2 of my friends live in Richmond. I live in Lynchburg, and that's where we usually play.

If you were willing, I'd love to play with some new people.

We're all pretty new to it though so I doubt we'd be too overly competetive at first, and we probably misinterpret a lot of rules since we don't have any more experienced people to show us what's up.

If you're interested, email me at indierockclimber@gmail.com

I don't mind coming up to Richmond as I definitely have a place to stay any time.

indierockclimber
13-07-2005, 14:15
My friend and I are going to split the BFG starter set, and once we have our ships painted and have played a few battles, will likely get a second one. The more I read about BFG the more I am completely in love with it.

General Veers
13-07-2005, 14:26
Indierockclimber and any other interested soul,

Please feel free to join the va_wargamers yahoo group. It's new, it's small but it's growing. I hope it will become a place for gamers in VA to meet and discuss, etc.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/VA_Wargamers/

One of my long term goals is to eventually establish an independant Wargamers Game Day in Richmond on a regular basis too. Not that I live there, as I live in Alexandria but Richmond would be a perfect place to put on some good gaming for people who live in VA.

And back on topic, BFG is FUN.

Vberg
13-07-2005, 15:25
I love BFG and fully support what the others have said, i enjoyed it more than Necromunda.

Indie if you want a real taste of BFG buy Execution Hour by Gordon Rennie fron the Black Libary. Its what inspired me to play BFG.

indierockclimber
13-07-2005, 15:50
General Veers, I will definitely sign up. Sound cool!

Vberg, I'll see if I can procure a copy :)

I can't wait to get started with BFG.

Inquisitor Samos
13-07-2005, 17:01
As an additional note: the other day when I looked, Armada had been uploaded in sections onto the newly-revised Specialist Games BFG site as PDFs.

Look on the "Rulebook" page (http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/rulebook.asp), several files are from Armada: "To Cleanse The Stars," "Traitor Fleets," "The Pirate, the Alien and the Green Tide," "The Harvesters and The Hive," "To Unite the Stars," and "There is Only War."

jimbo034
14-07-2005, 00:53
is it cheaper to buy the starter set and split the cost and models or buy 4 cruisers on my own

Riftwalker
14-07-2005, 01:13
Samos, thanks for pointing that out. It will only help, because it will be harder to get BFG stuff as is for me. Having that lightens the load a bit.

Jimbo, plastic Imperial and Chaos cruisers (the ones in the $50 starter box set) go for $15 for two. That would be $60 for the equivalent of the box, $30 for one of the box fleets. On top of the ships, in the box you get the rulebook, reference cards, ruler-things, and various counters. I'd get the box and split it if you intend to play Imperial or Chaos. Right now, you can get the rules and reference card online, and maybe counters, so I'd guess you could do without if you want to play (say) Eldar.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, guys.

Grimlaw
15-07-2005, 11:47
....We don't want to spend a lot of money, so I am asking what is *really* needed to get started playing BFG or Necromunda?....

If you already play 40K, then you have terrain, and you can use your existing miniatures (just pick the ones that are armed appropriately. You only need a copy of the rules.

It costs nothing to play, and you can have an absolute blast. Eventually, you will want to buy more suitable miniatures to convert to look like your gang (every one succumbs eventually), but that will come later.

Sai-Lauren
15-07-2005, 12:53
If you already play 40K, then you have terrain, and you can use your existing miniatures (just pick the ones that are armed appropriately. You only need a copy of the rules.

It costs nothing to play, and you can have an absolute blast. Eventually, you will want to buy more suitable miniatures to convert to look like your gang (every one succumbs eventually), but that will come later.
Agreed. The necromunda card buildings are no longer available (I've just recently got back into it myself, and was checking to see if I could have even more buildings), but the bulkheads themselves are still available, and making new ones is simply a case of getting some mounting card and having a design in mind.

Or you could break out the space hulk floor plans or your old lego and design a labyrinth of tunnels ;)

indierockclimber
15-07-2005, 15:20
Yes, Necromunda does sound very awesome. I love games where things progress like that (like the BFG campaign rules). I will download the rules and see about starting it up. Thanks for all the responses!

Greymarch
16-07-2005, 00:27
is it cheaper to buy the starter set and split the cost and models or buy 4 cruisers on my own

Go for the starter set. An extra rulebook (so you each have one), more order dice, and most importantly MORE BLAST MARKERS! It's the only way to get more that I know of.

fracas
19-07-2005, 10:30
here is a great little webzine on BFG
Warp Rift (http://www.epic40k.co.uk/bfgmag/index.html)