PDA

View Full Version : Whats with all the bling?



ThorOdensson
04-01-2007, 02:30
Im sure you've all noticed the trend especially with the marines of all the new mini's featuring more and more "bling" molded onto the models. Why cant we get clean models with no purity seals, scrolls, chains and other assorted knick knacks molded on that if you want to get rid of you have to spend a lot of time to file and cut and then fix with green stuff?

Chaos Lord Primus
04-01-2007, 02:39
Because GW hates you :p

Seriously, I think the sculptors have been equating "more detail" with "more extraneous parts".

Since by all accounts GW's detail level with plastic models has risen (just got into 40k, so I can't tell you personally, just repeating what I've heard), that detail appears to be expressing itself through purity seals and chains and other (sometimes annoying) fiddly bits.

To be fair, last time I looked up "baroque" (you know that word they like to use every sentence to describe Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines) it could be interpreted to mean exactly the above, specifically definition number 6:


ba·roque /bəˈroʊk; Fr. baˈrɔk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. (often initial capital letter) of or pertaining to a style of architecture and art originating in Italy in the early 17th century and variously prevalent in Europe and the New World for a century and a half, characterized by free and sculptural use of the classical orders and ornament, by forms in elevation and plan suggesting movement, and by dramatic effect in which architecture, painting, sculpture, and the decorative arts often worked to combined effect.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the musical period following the Renaissance, extending roughly from 1600 to 1750.
3. extravagantly ornate, florid, and convoluted in character or style: the baroque prose of the novel's more lurid passages.
4. irregular in shape: baroque pearls.
–noun
5. (often initial capital letter) the baroque style or period.
[B]6. anything extravagantly ornamented, esp. something so ornate as to be in bad taste.
7. an irregularly shaped pearl.

-From Dictionary.com

I am of course assuming you're talking about Marines, since they are, in my mind, the greatest offenders when it comes to excessive scolls/chains/general bling.

Edit: I'm an idiot sometimes. You in fact specifically named Marines in your post. My bad.

mistformsquirrel
04-01-2007, 02:55
<;_;> I like it. OVER THE TOP FTW! <,<

Elanthanis
04-01-2007, 02:57
I like how they actually went a bit more simple on some eldar models- especially the farseers. The autarchs are also extremely nice without having too much in the way of dangly bits.

Catferret
04-01-2007, 02:59
I like optional stuff on models. As long as it IS optional! Some models are a little cluttered. Any spare widgets on the sprues can be traded with your mates for more useful stuff.

Penitent
04-01-2007, 03:00
Because GW hates you :p

To be fair, last time I looked up "baroque" (you know that word they like to use every sentence to describe Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines) it could be interpreted to mean exactly the above, specifically definition number 6:

I am of course assuming you're talking about Marines, since they are, in my mind, the greatest offenders when it comes to excessive scolls/chains/general bling.

This pretty much sums it up. Like it or not, GW has decided that Marines should have a "baroque", perhaps even "Byzantine" look about them.

For the clean, functional look, it looks like Tau or Cadians are the best bet.

Mr_Smiley
04-01-2007, 05:16
I really like clean models with lots of extras, as this gives you the best options for you modelling taste.

IncrediSteve
04-01-2007, 05:27
Clean with bling attached is the sensible option of course, but I none the less vote for more!

Whether it's separate or not, the more bling the merrier.

MAD MAN-A-TRON
04-01-2007, 05:29
I think marines have enough to worry about on a battlefield, why include designer purity seals and icons to the lot?

scarletsquig
04-01-2007, 05:38
The autarchs are also extremely nice without having too much in the way of dangly bits.

Well, I guess all the eldar can't be as well-endowed as this bloke, or the race wouldn't be nearly as extinct as it is:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/2848/gunnerda4.gif

Also, I must say - I like the look of all the extra pieces on the new space marines, but it'd be nice if they gave them some more romanesque features - that old ultramarine captain was awesome.

Clang
04-01-2007, 06:08
Yesh, my vote would be to keep the bling, but as optional parts rather than moulded into place. Things like the newish Black Templar expansion sprue are very nice, but look far less impressive when you see exactly the same bling in exactly the same place in every Templar army

USABOB
04-01-2007, 06:18
I don't really mind the bling that there is on models now, the only problem is that when you are building an army of 50+ models and all of them have a purity seal in the same spot they stop feeling unique (unless you are an ambitious converter). So clean models with an accessory sprue would probably be the best way to go in my books.

IncrediSteve
04-01-2007, 07:53
One small problem with separate bling is that it is glued on a very small area, to an often flat/round surface, and is rather prone to falling off.

Seth the Dark
04-01-2007, 08:24
Why do we have to use the word "bling"?

FlyingViking
04-01-2007, 15:31
Because it indicates the essentially shallow valuelessness of the extraneous geegaws?

too.many.big.words.head.hurt.now

Scythe
04-01-2007, 15:39
Meh, I don't mind the bling that much, as long as it stays optional. Some of the later metal models are a bit over the top though. But then, no one is forcing you to buy them, right? There are still enough races which look reasonably 'clean' (Tau, Crons, Guard in lesser degree).


Why do we have to use the word "bling"?

Cause Marneus "king of the bling" Calgar said so!

:p

Kriegsherr
04-01-2007, 15:54
I want more bling! The Marines still look to much like technoid sci-fi soldiers and to less like the knights in space of the religious fantasy-in-space Imperium.

Same can be said about the imperial guard. Only the Vostroyans come close to what I would like to get from a bling level.
The cadians-starshiptroopers-clones are just a joke. They don't fit into the 40k Imperium (IMHO of course :p)

gitburna
04-01-2007, 15:55
i think that on the metal models basically the bling has to be on there to start with. Its much easier to file down than sculpt your own for the vast majority of buyers. Especially things like , say, a crux terminatus dangling off a chain.

Plastic models though do allow for clean with a seperate sprue of add-ons.

I do like a certain level of detail on them, i suspect what most people are objecting to is having moulded on chapter symbols, well i for one am glad of things like these because transfers always seem to end up with kinks or bubbles on them particulalrly when you're trying to fit them onto shoulder pads.

MrBigMr
04-01-2007, 16:01
I'm more of a fan of crude military look than this GW style chain-seal-pergament-tabard -crap. But there's room for it in my heart too.

lord_blackfang
04-01-2007, 16:05
I want more bling! The Marines still look to much like technoid sci-fi soldiers and to less like the knights in space of the religious fantasy-in-space Imperium.

Seconded. Each marine is a heroic individual, not a clone trooper.

Slaaneshi Slave
04-01-2007, 16:59
Seconded. Each marine is a heroic individual, not a clone trooper.

I agree, but how is he supposed to fight if those robes and chains are constantly wrapping themselves around his legs and arms?

A lot of my Marines have purity seals, but only on shoulder pads and other places they wont get in the way. Almost all of my marines have pouches and grenades on their waists, so I guess I like a blend of fantasy, so long as they could actually fight with that kit.

Kjell
04-01-2007, 17:26
I want more kinds of little pouches, gun holsters, grenades and other fiddly bits that you can glue onto your plastic miniatures. Chaos Marines look much better with extra equipment! Ornaments, though, should be left to those suited to it. Chaplains, Chapter Masters, priests of varying kinds, Inquisitors, Sorcerers... Basic troopers should come as clean as possible but with a host of extras. The walking reliquary look of Marneus Calgar is fine for the single most high-ranking individual of such a pompous and proud lot as the Ultramarines, but the style doesn't work for everything.

So... Good ornaments where it's fitting, plain basic troopers and more extras for all! :p

LeeJerrum
04-01-2007, 17:30
I'm working on a Burberry Pattern for my Chav Marines - just wish GW would add the appropriate jewellry...

Slaaneshi Slave
04-01-2007, 17:32
I would collect an Imperial Guard army if they came with proper webbing and burgen. :p

LeeJerrum
04-01-2007, 17:36
Yeah, and a big airborne tash!

Simsandwich
04-01-2007, 17:38
I want my Warboss to have a 4 finger ring and pimp cane. I like painting the fancy bits.

Dr Death
04-01-2007, 18:09
I'm a member of the anti-bling brigade, well actually that's not entirely true. I like dangling jewels and purity seals as much as the next man but i do not beleive in detail for detail's sake and i beleive it should be done with discretion and taste. Bling for me is not merely anything that dangles or hangs but the kind of excessively large 'symbols'.

Calgar is a good example- i actually like the model but the eagle wing and ultramarine symbol pinned to each shoulder are just absurd. Helbrect and the sword brethren also with their huge smegging shoulder cloaks and extraneous pauldrons.

By contrast i absolutely adore the new termie librarian (see in the DA rumour roundup) because while it too has as many dangling accessories as it can pack on they all play second fiddle to the main focus which is ultimately the model. Incidentally i think this is due simply to the change of concept artist from Mark Gibbons to Dave Gallagher, i change i cannot praise GW enough for.

Chunky chains and dragging icons though just make marines look like they're over compensating for something and muddies the real focus of attention which should be the marine himself.

Dr Death

ashc
04-01-2007, 18:16
this is all about personal taste; for me, i like the idea of giving people the option to pimp their models if they so desire.

Ash

MrBigMr
04-01-2007, 18:18
I want my Warboss to have a 4 finger ring and pimp cane. I like painting the fancy bits.
I find it to be more scary to think what he's pimping. There ain't any Ork chicks. Unles you'd add Vect's prisoners on his base. That's be bitching.
I wanted to make a fancy soviet style dreadnought with a Vect's prisoner on top of it, wearing a fur hat and having a chain going from her neck to the dreadnoughts arm. The problem is that IG can't have dreadnoughts. Although I could use a Sentinel for the rules...

I am planning a Terran IG regiment for tournaments which would be like the Adeptus Custodes of the IG. Plenty of bling and such. I'm also gonna pimp the command platoon hardcore.

ashc
04-01-2007, 18:20
I am planning a Terran IG regiment for tournaments which would be like the Adeptus Custodes of the IG. Plenty of bling and such. I'm also gonna pimp the command platoon hardcore.

man i hope those are using Vostroyans as a base; they are definitely the most pimped side of the guard. (heh, Pimp My Side).

Ash

Slaaneshi Slave
04-01-2007, 18:21
Personally I think a Terran IG regiment would be less Blingy than most, as they are the most disciplined soldiers, and as such would only wear "soldiery" stuff.

Midknightwraith
04-01-2007, 18:53
I think the biggest problem is that many lines are Metal only, like SOB, most aspect warriors, and the like. There are a limited number of molds they are going to produce for such models. To make them look different, especially if you plan on having lots of them, requires some conversion, or at the very least an alternate painting scheme to keep track of individual units. They are easier to paint though.

That is one of the biggest problems I have with the plastic models. There is much more opportunity for conversion and posing, but that can put you in a situation where you can't paint them well because of your chosen paint scheme. Overall Customizable bling is best. Otherwise bling is not bad as long as it is easy to convert so that every 4th model doesn't look the same.

hiveminion
04-01-2007, 19:13
Especially for high ranking Space Marines and Inquisitors, bling is fluffy. It also makes them look good, and sets them apart from the normal warriors. I think Special Characters and commander models should have at least "basic" bling, ie, ornaments that are very difficult to convert or attach yourself. But models shouldn't be drowned in bling.
I think GW now has a good balance, a lot of ornaments on heroes but not too much. If they go further than the new Terminator Libbie, however, they've crossed the limit.

Slaaneshi Slave
04-01-2007, 19:17
The main problem with the bling at the moment is in the artwork, the Marneus "Bling Throne" Calgar picture for example. Its terrible. Then again, I think bling looks aweful on real people too.

hiveminion
04-01-2007, 19:24
The main problem with the bling at the moment is in the artwork, the Marneus "Bling Throne" Calgar picture for example. Its terrible. Then again, I think bling looks aweful on real people too.

But it gives the 40k universe a strong hook, symbolizing the blending of religion and technology and the elevation of war to a ritualistic form of art. I like bling in the artwork.

It depends on how you view the 40k universe personaly. As you say, bling on "real" people is awful to some people (including me), but others like it.

Misanthrope
04-01-2007, 19:28
I think they don't have nearly enough bling... I love the feeling of the fluff pictures for 40K but find the models are incredibly lacking in comparison.

Yog_Sothoth
04-01-2007, 19:30
Player 1: Hey, what is that huge pile of skulls supposed to be?
Player 2: That´s my Space Marine Battleforce, foo!

Bloodthirster90
04-01-2007, 19:53
I want my Warboss to have a 4 finger ring and pimp cane. I like painting the fancy bits.

This gave me a hillarious idea. Use the model for Abaddon, give him just a cane (Because, with that claw, do you really NEED a knuckle duster?) and have 2 daemonettes leaning on him.
Thats be a bitching idea.

MrBigMr
04-01-2007, 20:42
man i hope those are using Vostroyans as a base; they are definitely the most pimped side of the guard. (heh, Pimp My Side).
Ash

Personally I think a Terran IG regiment would be less Blingy than most, as they are the most disciplined soldiers, and as such would only wear "soldiery" stuff.
I'm gonna use standard Cadians and pimp them myself. I was gonna use the Roman Legions as the style. Burgundy clothes and silver armor with golden detailing. Sergeants and officers will have a plumes on their helmets.
Tanks will have a shining white marble surface with golden rivets and detailing. Leman Russ and Demolisher will have golden statues (like regimental heroes and such) instead of sponsons and the Basilisk will have a golden statue on the barrel.
The commander will be made from Daemonhunter Inquisitor 1 with a power sword and a large gauntlet mouted storm bolter. I'll mount a servo-skull behind him, holding a laurel crown over his head. His retinue will be made from a laspistol/CCW veterans with an Aquilifer (regimental standard), a medic and a Psycher with Imperial Honorifica and Force Weapon, made from Daemonhunter Inquisitor 2 with the =][= on his back replaced with the head of a psychers staff.

Yog_Sothoth
04-01-2007, 20:43
This gave me a hillarious idea. Use the model for Abaddon, give him just a cane (Because, with that claw, do you really NEED a knuckle duster?) and have 2 daemonettes leaning on him.
Thats be a bitching idea.


Hm, reminds me of this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Niheilist/other%20stuff/Warhammer/1157921532138.jpg

Slaaneshi Slave
04-01-2007, 20:49
Hm, reminds me of this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/Niheilist/other%20stuff/Warhammer/1157921532138.jpg

Which is why the whole thing is going to pot...

Chainsworded Codpiece
04-01-2007, 20:59
But it gives the 40k universe a strong hook, symbolizing the blending of religion and technology and the elevation of war to a ritualistic form of art. I like bling in the artwork.

The artwork of 40K also benefits (or used to benefit) from weird weird cherub-vampires and crazy-looking heraldic-beast/biomechanoid combo creatures ornamenting the sides of pictures.

From skewed reference points that allowed for massed battle scenes to drift and curl around a picture's foreground and background, in the same way that the (apparently spectral, levitating) banners proclaiming all sorts of nasty axioms would do the same thing in the same picture.

The art is not (always) meant to be actual- or photo-representative; it is often meant to be symbolic and, yes, overly baroque.

The question then becomes...Do you (as a modeller) make the same allowances for the miniatures?

By the way, I believe that the fanciful, playful, and yes, DELIBERATELY ABSURD nature of some the models allows us to take them out of the "baroque" and firmly into a new category which I call....

... "Albrecht Duhrer-esque Interstellar Roccoco"!

Yep, that last one's a real Art History Word. Though I may have misspelled it:)

By the way, Blackfang and some (one?) others feel that the "bling" is integral to the feel of 40K being "science fantasy" or "Knights in space".

No crazy-heraldry-bling hater, I.

But, I feel that the unverse of 40k benefits from a sharp contrast of the space-fantasy and the utilitarian-grim. I feel that the counterplay between these two...lifestyles? Modes of thought?...allows for a richer feeling the 40K-verse.

Another facet of the whole barmy conflict, as it were; the externalized (visualized) conflict between Necessary Orderliness and Ritualized Ceremony.

Lord Humongous
04-01-2007, 21:35
Part of the recent trend may be due to GW's new modeling / prototype methods.

It used to be, to cast a metal model, you had to make a "green", which could consist ONLY of green stuff and metal- no plastic, not superglue, etc.
Plastic minis- well, the production methods were limiting, to say the best.
So each new mini was essentially a custom sculpt.

Now it seems (looking at thier studio sculpts) that they can take a miniature made with various mediums (plastic, resin, metal, glued together) and pull a production mold from it- both for metal models and plastic ones.
So, now a lot of the sculpts are plastic minis with added detailing- IE, blinged out basic marines. Its saves the studio time, allows a wider product range, and allows more cocnsistancy in basic scales, but when poorly done the results are bland minis with lots of overly chunky details tacked on.

Onisuzume
04-01-2007, 21:44
Take them down please, and add them to the sprues instead.
Not one marine/squad in my army uses purity seals since it's almost useless to them. (Stubborn Deathwing, characters, veteran sergeants)
And I don't have the time to cut&file them off as well.

Flame Boy
04-01-2007, 23:41
It does seem interesting that fluffwise marines have a very spartan existance, their own personal effects rarely go beyond their weapons, armour and a small cabin with a cot-bunk with perhaps a stoll if they are lucky. It seems some compensate more by going to the Chaplain on every few minutes of and beg him to add another devotional seal to their armour.

I prefer the option to add more to my models if I wish, it would be nice if the current purity seals were removed from the marine models, and more seals were added to the sprues fof optional goodies, but it's not like that will happen.

I've been drawing concepts for a Chaplain for my DIY chapter, and I have added a fair bit of armour detailing to the pictures, but I kept away from tacked-on stuff. He runs around with a unique Crozius and a large flail, so he doesn't end up exactly brimming with ammunition pouches... mind you, I'll add detail to the model if it doesn't clutter the armour too much.

Slaaneshi Slave
04-01-2007, 23:46
I've just finished assembling 30 new Marines, every marine has a set of Grenades, and either half a magazine pouch (the standard double ones on the sprue are too large) or a ration / equipment pouch. Weapon and special weapon marines all have a bolt pistol holster too. None of the Marines have additional purity seals, but I did use a couple of the scroll tube things (look like nunchucks).

I guess I'm a victim of the extras too then.

I think Purity Seals look good on Dreadnoughts, but thats about it.

Dr Death
05-01-2007, 14:11
The problem of making 'bling' optional is that it becomes more like the bling that i dispise- Chunky, dangling wotnotz that look so tacky because they can only be glued onto completely open surfaces like the middle of the imperial eagle or hanging off a shoulder pad instead of being placed discreetly in the recesses of the model like the area on the belt obscured by the arm. Making them optional would only make marines look more like a group of medallion men than they do now.

The best power armoured models are always there where the details are sculpted onto the surfaces- just take the models for =][=: Artemis looks both gothic and sci-fi while Tyrus is the very image of the baroque without resorting to vaguely phallic hanging items. From 40k the old grey knights are the best example i can think of that blend the gothic and the futuristic by texturing the surfaces of the armour with faux filligree. Baroque does not nessercarily equal bling and it is immature design for the two to be so linked.

As for the imperial guard i love the idea of the Vostroyans, they're wonderfully archaic and look every inch of the type of imperial guard you'd expect to see from a planet that takes it's reverence for the emperor to the next level but the models are shoddily done. The guns are oversized, the details are chunky and square, the models arent given the height that they need to work and the result is a range which while pressing the right buttons of imagery do it in a way that is totally undesirable.

So those are my views on the 'execution' side of the baroque.

Dr Death

hiveminion
05-01-2007, 14:19
I agree with Dr Death here. I think he'll agree with me when I say that John Blanche is the man when it comes to "realistic" 40k imagery. With that I mean that his drawings are always over the top yet they seem to be the only paintings showing 40k as it would've been if it was real, ie, with lots of skulls, blood, fire and NO blue!

btw he was the man behind the Vostroyan miniature range. Should say enough. I wish he'd do the concepts for all models (not the sculpts though!).

Dr Death
05-01-2007, 14:46
I dont think i'd accuse John Blanche of being realistic but he is certainly the driving force behind the 'Gothic' side of 40k's imagery, flying the flag for all things dusty, crusty and rusty (in colour as well as the deterioration of metal). His talents arent boundless- i really would hate to see what a blanche-styled eldar range would look like but he has his place and the more ancient and ceremonial institutions of the imperium benefit from his influence.

The Astartes are an interesting matter because as flameboy said earlier, they live a spartan existance despite being perhaps the oldest organisation in the imperium. I am therefore very of the opinion that all the years of reverence and mythology should be kept to formal means such as the chapter banners (the picture of the Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Spacewolves banners in the 2nd ed rulebook show this beautifully). There is plenty of ceremony in Astartes circles: the key and book motifs on librarian's armour, the robes worn by dark angels (personally i beleive that they should only be worn by those who know the dark angel's secret to increase their significance).

It's those kinds of details which tell a story rather than simply being detail for detail's sake- something that i strongly oppose. The more 'codex' a chapter the more formal their dipictions of their history become- I think that an Ultramarine would scorn any 'trophies' such as they have been given in this new edition because they distract them from playing by the rules their primarch had set out and which they trust to implicitly.

Dr Death

hiveminion
05-01-2007, 15:03
Well 40k can only be realistic in a non-realistical way if you get my point:D

Weregerbil
05-01-2007, 16:36
More bling plus extra.

Khornies & milk
06-01-2007, 23:35
Some say the metal Venerable Dread is blinged out, but I use it as a GK Dread
with GK related 'bling' attached, so it looks suitably pious and noble in my eyes.

I hate the word 'bling' - has connotations of 'Gangsta' to me, which is major crapola imo.

Voted for more.

cheers

Warlord Kyle
06-01-2007, 23:48
Nothing looks better then a fully customize army of marines, sure some marines should be left plain, but my friends fully "blinged" out black templar army looks awsome.

ekister101
07-01-2007, 00:08
I certainly like the idea of sanding or cutting some tiny small piece off than trying to glue the damn thing on and sticking my fingers together for eternity!! :)

So I voted for as is. Put the nicely molded pieces on there for me and I can take off what I don't like.

Slaaneshi Slave
07-01-2007, 00:16
I certainly like the idea of sanding or cutting some tiny small piece off than trying to glue the damn thing on and sticking my fingers together for eternity!! :)

I see you have built the FW Keeper of Secrets then. :p Every spike had to be glued on seperately...