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View Full Version : To Macragge or not to Macragge...that is the question...



Babbaloie
04-01-2007, 15:31
Howdy all.

Given the title of the post it's likely obvious that I'm new to the world of 40k. I've always been interested in the game, and after doing a bit of preliminary painting (I had to make sure that I would enjoy that aspect of the hobby), I've decided that I want to play.

Here's the delimma.

Should I go buy the Macragge set?

or

Should I just buy the full on rule book, make an army decision (after much hemming, hawing, and associated swearing) and dive right in?

I would appreciate any perspective from both new and old alike.

Obviously the Macragge set makes good sense if I'm leaning towards Space Marines or 'nids, but I'm not sure if that's the way I'm going.

It would also make sense as a stepping stone to learning the full game, but here in the DFW area, there seems to be lots of chances to watch games and learn as you play.

As far as armies to build go:

I've got mad love for the Tau look, and I think that their shooty style might make for some fun play.

I also love the look and power of the Necrons, but I'm a bit turned off by the lack of unit variety. It would seem that most Necron army lists look the same.

I've also been pondering IG. I'm not sure why.

And then there are the omnipresent Space Marines. They've got a cool look, a relatively forgiving play-style, and there are more army list possiblities than I could shake a bolter at. On the down side, everyone plays with them, and that's sorta boring.

Thanks for the help guys, and I look forward to chatting again with many of you in the future.

Darkseer
04-01-2007, 15:35
Buy macragge to get you into the basics. Besides, you get some neat terrain and a rulebook.

You can buy Tau later. Go Tau because the other races you've mentioned are either bland, too common or just plain suck.

Catferret
04-01-2007, 15:39
If you don't want Marines or Nids then definitely get hardback rulebook. The money you save can go towards your first unit. While I believe the Starter Games are excellent value for money, they are only worth it if you actually want the models they contain.

Plus, if you have an annoying opponent, you can get a far more satisfactory feeling hitting them with the bigger rulebook!:D

Morgrad
04-01-2007, 15:48
Hmm... I recall getting the whole Macragge set for cheaper than the hardcover book. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive.....

The scenery in there alone is definately worth the price, and even if you're not going to play marines or 'nids, the Macragge scenarios are a nice way to get your feet wet.

Here's one vote for the Macragge set. All the cool kids are doing it......

Ozymandiass
04-01-2007, 15:51
Get both.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

de Selby
04-01-2007, 15:53
Welcome to Warseer!

If you don't want the miniatures in the Macragge set and you have some experienced players who can show you the ropes, I don't think you need the Macragge set. The Tau army box provides an excellent value set of stuff; spend your starter cash on that instead. You'll need the codex too (recently revamped) and a rulebook eventually, although you may be able to learn from someone elses or even get the Macragge slimline one seperately via ebay or second hand.

Space Marines are indeed very common. There's nothing wrong with that but people like to see something different, and Tau are nearly as good as a beginner's force I think. IG and tyranids both require a substantial investment in models to build an army. Necrons can be built as a superfast jetbiking destroyer force as well as the more common phalanx of lots of warriors, but they do suffer from a paucity of unit types. Speaking as someone with Marines, IG, Tyranids and Necron collections, go Tau! :wtf:

;)

Catferret
04-01-2007, 15:54
Hmm... I recall getting the whole Macragge set for cheaper than the hardcover book. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive.....

The scenery in there alone is definately worth the price, and even if you're not going to play marines or 'nids, the Macragge scenarios are a nice way to get your feet wet.

Here's one vote for the Macragge set. All the cool kids are doing it......

You may have bought the Collecter's Edition book. It is 50, Macragge is 40, Hardback is 30.

ryfitz13
04-01-2007, 16:08
It sounds like you've got a very similar dilemma to what I faced a couple years ago, when I discovered an interest in this hobby. I knew I wanted to get into 40k. The Marines and Nids were OK, in my book, but I was definitely more interested in the Tau.

I decided to pick up the Battle for Macragge kit anyway. My thoughts were basically that:
a) it's $5 US cheaper than the big rule book (or, it was when I picked it up: $45 for BfM, $50 for the rule book, and I think maybe closer to $100 for the collector's edition rule book). In my book, cheaper is very often better! ;)
b) it includes dice and templates, both fairly necessary for the game. More savings!
c) I'd say the terrain convinced me, but really it was just an added bonus for me.

I decided I'd pick up BfM, learn to play, and get some painting experience before I began to invest in Tau. I figured I'd collect 500 points or so each of Marines and Nids, so I had something for guests to play if they were interested in trying out the game.

Now, 2 years have gone by. I've found that I really like the Nids, much to my surprise. Due to my time and money budget for this hobby, I've achieved my goal with the Nids and Marines, but haven't touched Tau yet. Instead, I've set my sights a little higher with the 2 first armies - I'm up to about 1200 in Nids, 750 or so in Marines, with plans to go to 1500 and 1000 respectively before I consider starting a Tau army.

In the end though, I think I might do things differently if I could do it over again. Sure, BfM was a nice intro to the rules. But half of the scenarios it comes with are complete throwaways, and quite a few of them featured rules that wound up confusing me once I made the leap into the full rules. Plus, the fact that I still haven't touched the first army I found really appealing can be irksome - but the fact that I became so interested in the Tyranids instead balances that out pretty well.

And the last bit: I became quite interested in the fluff, and since the BfM rulebook contains very little background, I just HAD to pick up the big rule book after the fact. If it hadn't been a gift, that would've mostly negated the savings of going for BfM in the first place! ;)

Babbaloie
04-01-2007, 16:17
Hey guys, I really appreciate all of the advice, and given the fairly even 50/50 split between buy/don't buy BfM, it would seem that I'll likely not go wrong either way.

Beyond all of this, I've been blowing off work this morning and doing some additional digging, and I'm finding some good love for the Dark Angels chapter of the SM. I like the darkish-green look, and their fluff is intriguing as well.

I think that I'm going to pick up BFM and paint up the troops as Dark Angels instead of Ultras. (Although those Yellow Imp Fists look hella cool too).

Would that work as a good place to start?

Catferret
04-01-2007, 16:21
Excellent choice! The new Dark Angels models and Codex come out in March but you will still need a basic Tactical Squad so get started with the green paint!

Tanner MIrabel
04-01-2007, 16:23
Go for Macragge, and sell any bits you don't want. Especially if you think you'll go marines. They are a little boringly posed, but you can mix them up with other marines so they're not all in one squad.

Babbaloie
04-01-2007, 16:24
Ah!

Senior Gato!

Thanks for the helpful information! Given the amount of time I will realistically be able to devote to this project, I think that I can get the Macragge stuff painted up by March, and if I dig the game...THEN I can dive right in ahead of the curve with one tactical squad complete.

Excellent.

Karhedron
04-01-2007, 19:38
I agree with Catferret, Dark Angels are getting a shiny new codex in a couple of months so will certainly be a good choice.

I wouldn't go for Imperial Fists myself. Painting large areas of yellow is actually suprisingly hard as yellow paint does not cover very well. It is one of those quirks of acrylic paints. Green on the other hand covers very well and is a fairly easy colour to paint and highlight nicely.

TwilightOdyssey
04-01-2007, 20:09
Macgragge has some very good points:

1. It has easy-to-assemble models that you can paint.
2. The mini-rule book.
3. Some great scenery bits.
4. Two measuring sticks as well as blast and flame templates.
5. Enough pieces for you to go through introductory mission book at home with a friend without any pressure, since there are a LOT of rules to learn.
6. It doesn't require you to buy an army up front.

Onisuzume
04-01-2007, 20:46
Buy macragge to get you into the basics. Besides, you get some neat terrain and a rulebook.

You can buy Tau later. Go Tau because the other races you've mentioned are either bland, too common or just plain suck.
And you're saying that Tau aren't common or bland?

Just pick an army that catches your fancy.
You'll end up with multiple armies sooner or later anyways.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
04-01-2007, 22:20
here are some options:
- find a Marine and/or Nid player, and buy the Maccragge set between you (they get the figs, you get the rest, they pay an agreeable portion of the cost).
- buy Maccragge, use the Nids & Marines for conversions, terrain (marines make great statues, nids floating in big glass jars work well), casualties/bodyparts for your models' bases, practice paint schemes, keep them for Kill Team/incase you ever want to start those armies, or swap/sell them.

even if you didnt get all those Marines/Nids in the BFM box, its still perfectly good value, IMO - see the troops as freebies, and treat them as such (you many even want to give them away to a friend to get them into the game). the Terrain is awesome, and the templates and dice are useful. plus the Pilot is an exclusive model...

you only need the Hardback rulebook instead of the BFM set if:
- you want to play Kill Team, and your opponent doesnt have the rules
- you want to play Combat Patrol and your opponent doesnt have the rules (and the free-but-slightly-out-of-date rules on the GW website arent good enough for you)
- you want to play in a Tournament that demands you have the hardback book, and no-one can/will lend you one
- you want to use a rule that isnt in the BFM book, and your opponent doesnt have it*

that said, i would actually recommend getting both, but starting with BFM (its all you need to play "normal" 40K). while building up forces, use the Combat Patrol rules (i suggest you download them and compare them to the most up to date version in a friends hardback book, noting the few differences) to get started quickly - you will only need 400 pts to play.

hope that helps :)

~ Tim
*the only "normal" rules that arent in the rulebook, AFAIK, are Preliminary Bombardment and Sustained Attack, and these can be downloaded free and legal from here (http://ca.games-workshop.com/Community/Hall_of_Heroes/images/HOHdownload/40kHOHspecialrules.pdf). however, some specialised stuff may require rules from the hardback, like bunkers etc (its usually going to be mission specific stuff, and the 5 standard missions in the BFM book are self contained)