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Alathir
05-01-2007, 00:24
In a recent game against Tomb Kings... my ally used a dwarf spell eater rune on the casket and successfully 'ate' the spell. Rendering the casket essentially useless (although the -1 to all casting is still handy dandy).

I was wondering, after some thought, whether the caskets spell can indeed be destroyed. Reading through the description, it isnt the liche who actually does anything besides opening the box. This is proved again by the fact that if a high liche were to man it then the caskets 'spell' is still done on 2D6 and not the high liche's 3.

Can anyone clarify this for me?



Oh and yes, I know the opponent was a ***** to take the casket against dwarfs... to be fair, I was fielding a fairly infantry based Bretonnian force with lots of magic with the Dwarfs.

Palatine Katinka
05-01-2007, 00:51
I'm not certain but i think it counts as a bound spell and the rune does work on bound spells, doesn't it? it seems a bit mean, but the Tomb Kings prob'ly deserve it!

DeathlessDraich
05-01-2007, 07:55
TK pg 33 Casket : "It is cast like an incantation with a power level ...etc"

Therefore it can be destroyed by Spelleater.

Negativemoney
05-01-2007, 10:55
Being cast like does not imply that it is an incantation just states that when the bound ability is used you follow the casting procedure for incantations.

What is the wording on the rune? I know with some spell destroying items you can destroy bound items but it all comes down to the wording on the rune.

Alathir
05-01-2007, 10:55
How rude!

Seems odd that like a 50 point rune can destroy a 265+ point rare choice... but then again, normally no one would take the casket against dwarfs.

Atrahasis
05-01-2007, 12:57
The old (6th edition) TK FAQ said that the Light of Death could not be affected by such items as Spelleaters etc, but the new one does not.

T10
05-01-2007, 13:53
I seem to think the FAQ's reasoning was something very similar to "Seems odd that like a 50 point rune can destroy a 265+ point rare choice..." :)

-T10

Cloud Strife
05-01-2007, 15:07
casket of souls as far as I remember is classed as a bound item, and the spelleater rune can only destroy spells which are actually cast, and cannot break bound items, so it could be used to stop the priests from casting spells (although I can't remember if it affects all Liches or just the one, as something is making me think something could stop all Liches from casting a specific spell for the rest of the game) but can't stop the casket apart from being a dispel scroll if you are that desperate. Although I can't see it being that big a problem as most TK players that I know say they wouldn't take one against Dwarfs.

Yade
05-01-2007, 15:44
All bound items follow the same rules as cast spells except they are generated by an item and often have a reduce power level. Anything that affects a spell can affect a bound item. There fore if the spell eater rune rules that the spell is lost from the game then sure. If the spell eater rune says that the spell is wiped from the casters mind then no.

intellectawe
05-01-2007, 15:46
Bye Bye Casket. I knew thee well. Let me count the ways I can eat you thus rendering you useless; 4. 5 and a 6 on a die.

Cloud Strife
05-01-2007, 16:28
99% certain on this, but don't have Dwarf book as its at home, but as I say 99% certain that Spelleater doesn't work on bound items.

Yade
05-01-2007, 16:37
OK I broke down and got my dwarf book. The Spelleater rune an enemy wizard loses the spell and it cannot be cast again by him. However, in the BRB under the section that reads "Bound Spells" itmes that destroy spells work as normal against spells cast from bound items.

So the BRB would rule that the casket could be destroyed because it was activated by the lich priest and the spelleater rune targets the affect.

Khorneflakes
07-01-2007, 03:25
Yeah page 121 of the bfsp rule book pretty much sums it up!

505
07-01-2007, 03:40
ok considering the casket is a bond item then could HE vauls unmaking destroy it?

Atrahasis
07-01-2007, 10:26
It isn't a bound item, it is cast like a bound item.

T10
07-01-2007, 10:54
I liked better the reasoning that it was immune to spellbreaking because it was so damned expensive. :)

-T10

steeler556
07-01-2007, 12:58
I was wondering, after some thought, whether the caskets spell can indeed be destroyed. .


6th Edition FAQ had a question addressing this specific situation and the answer was that 'no' the spelleater could not destroy the casket.

I see no reason why this same answer would not apply in 7th Edition.

Atrahasis
07-01-2007, 12:59
Apart from the fact it has been deliberately excluded from the 7th FAQ you mean?

steeler556
07-01-2007, 13:27
Apart from the fact it has been deliberately excluded from the 7th FAQ you mean?

when it comes to GW I would use the term "sloppily excluded."

Atrahasis
07-01-2007, 13:45
Assuming that everything they do is an error leaves us unable to play the game. It is unreasonable to assume that it has been excluded in error.

steeler556
07-01-2007, 15:47
Assuming that everything they do is an error leaves us unable to play the game. It is unreasonable to assume that it has been excluded in error.

well, given GW's lack of editing & proofreading skills, a fine example of which is the recently released O&G FAQ and 7th Edition errata/FAQ documents (btw, another 'fine' example would be the Tyranid FAQ GW released back in the fall, what a fiasco that was!).

I pulled out the 6th Ed. Q&A/errata on this:

Q. Some armies have items/runes that can destroy a spell on a 4+. Can you use them to destory the Casket of Souls incantation (since it's said to be an incantation of power level 2d6)? What about the Anvil of Doom?

A. these items have no effect on the Casket of Souls or the Anvil of Doom, even if they affect bound spells.

Now, what in 7th edition has changed in relation to the above Q&A?

Atrahasis
07-01-2007, 15:49
GW have now decided that making arbitrary judgements in FAQs that completely contradict what the rules actually say is silly?

steeler556
07-01-2007, 20:09
GW have now decided that making arbitrary judgements in FAQs that completely contradict what the rules actually say is silly?

It is GW's FAQ document to begin with...there are a number of silly/sloppy examples of errata/FAQ that contradict the main rules.

Here is my personal favourite one regarding rerolling of dice.

Page 1 of the rulebook under 'Rerolls' and I quote the last sentence of the first paragraph "and no single dice roll can be re-rerolled more than once, regardless of the source of the re-roll."

Now, reference the Hordes of Chaos FAQ document:

Q. Armour of Damantion vs. Hatred. How does this work?
A. The attacking player rolls to hit and re-rolls misses. Then the defending player makes the attacker re-roll all successful attacks.

In this example the FAQ has directly contradicted what is written in the main rulebook.

In regard to the Casket and the Anvil and Spelleater type magic items. I would consider the Casket/Anvil to be a 'super' magic item similiar to Lizardmen Sacred Plaques and thus immune to the effects of spelleater type magic.

DeathlessDraich
08-01-2007, 19:21
Steeler556:
As a TK player my gut feeling has always been that practically nothing can effect the Casket of Souls making it similar to the Anvil and Effigy of Gork (or is it Mork?)

However in this case, no FAQ is or was ever needed. The FAQ in Chronicles is a mistake!
The rules are in the Tomb Kings army book:

pg 33 Light of Death which I quoted before
pg 34 Liche Priest magic, 2nd column, 5th paragraph - the item mentioned is Seal of Destruction.

Khorneflakes
08-01-2007, 20:57
the anvil wood be immune to spelleater items cos its effects happen in the shooting phase not magic

intellectawe
08-01-2007, 21:15
the anvil wood be immune to spelleater items cos its effects happen in the shooting phase not magic

Exactly. The Anvil of Doom and the Casket of Souls are as different as you can get. One has nothing to do with the other.

Asq_Dak
09-01-2007, 10:30
Now, what in 7th edition has changed in relation to the above Q&A?

Basically the core rules of the game, and their policy to FAQ in this edition is to review and remove contradictions. This is presumeably why it is not in the updated FAQ (according to others in this thread)

Khorneflakes
09-01-2007, 23:20
what a weak arguement that a 50 point item cant destroy a 265 odd rare choice! by those statements that means my 346 point chaos sorcerer lord is immune to the attacks of a 60 point goblin with a great weapon:wtf: he cant hurt me cos his points value is so low:confused:

505
10-01-2007, 01:50
what a weak arguement that a 50 point item cant destroy a 265 odd rare choice! by those statements that means my 346 point chaos sorcerer lord is immune to the attacks of a 60 point goblin with a great weapon:wtf: he cant hurt me cos his points value is so low:confused:

amen :angel:

and the 80 point null stone shuoldn't stop 1000 pont Zacharias or 850 Archaon or....

Varath- Lord Impaler
10-01-2007, 01:57
The Spelleater can eat the light of death.

Ignore all fluff (very painful for me to do, i assure you)

1)The Casket casts a bound spell
2) the spelleater is allowed to eat bound spells
3) The casket uses the spell, the spelleater rolls a 4+
4) if successful a spell is eaten, no yelling 'supermagic' cause tomb kings have enough going for them in the magic department

steeler556
10-01-2007, 12:26
The Spelleater can eat the light of death.3) The casket uses the spell, the spelleater rolls a 4+
4) if successful a spell is eaten, no yelling 'supermagic' cause tomb kings have enough going for them in the magic department

using that arguement Lizardmen Plaques should now be affected by spelleater magic. The fact that the Anvil is now used in the shooting phase instead of magic does not change the logic behind the original 6th Ed. FAQ on this issue.

GranFarfar
10-01-2007, 17:42
using that arguement Lizardmen Plaques should now be affected by spelleater magic. The fact that the Anvil is now used in the shooting phase instead of magic does not change the logic behind the original 6th Ed. FAQ on this issue.

What has Lizardmen plauqes to do with this? In any way?

intellectawe
10-01-2007, 19:03
What has Lizardmen plauqes to do with this? In any way?

Same thing about the Anvil. Neither have ANYTHING to do AT ALL with the Casket.

The Anvil isn't magic because the rules doesn't say its magic. It isn't shooting either. The Anvil is not a bound spell, it is not a rune spell, it just happens. The closest thing the Anvil comes to shooting/magic is Wrath and Ruin. The effect of the spell is "distributed like shooting and is treated as a magical weapon" basically.

As far as I know, form what people on here post, the Casket IS a warmachine-like model that casts a bound spell, basically.

The Anvil does no such thing. At all. Not even remotely. An Elven Ring with a bound power is closer to the Casket than the Anvil.

You mine as well bring up Movement and how it can be dispelled by the spell eater rune.