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View Full Version : If you can't beat 'em join em but beardier: HE anti Brets



feintstar
13-07-2005, 06:05
Prince on Dragon with Lion Guard, Heavy Armour, helm of fortune, sheild, Guardian Phoenix, Lance
550

BSB on Ithilmar Barded Steed with Dragon Armour and Lance
The Battle Banner
202

Scroll Caddy with 2 Dispell Scrolls and Channeller
145

5 Silver Helms, nil upgrades 95

5 Silver Helms, Musician 102

5 Silver Helms, Standard Bearer and Musician 116

5 Dragon Princes with full command (better movement means more outmanuvering) 175

2 Tiranoc Chariots 170

2 Tiranoc Chariots 170

2 Tiranoc Chariots 170

2 Great Eagles 100

2000 exactly. If I can charge 18" while he can only charge 16", possibly + D6, then I can hopefully roll a flank. The Battle Banner will munch the Banner of the Lady on the charge. I don't trust Helms vs Brets, so I'm min maxing em and using them as flee bait/flank cover. The Chariots get to support the Dragon and their Princes, (in this case, "support" means 3 Chariots slamming into the front face of a Lance) while the Eagles are fed, fleeing flying meatgrinder style, into keeping Support units (peasants, pegasi) out of the battle.

The other thing is, it'd look really impressive on the table... :evilgrin:

Riddy
13-07-2005, 08:18
So you have designed this list soley to beat brets, why, whats the point in designing an army soley for the purpose of beating one other army. Especially as its not a certain army like a flying circus or a SAD. Brets are not beardy, their army book is balanced and if you cant beat them other than by tooling your army so that it will beat them and only them, then you need to learn tactics. There is no point in remarking on the army as i would just try to balance it, which you obviously dont want.

feintstar
13-07-2005, 08:41
Firstly, I don't want it purely against Bretonians, but also against Dwarves, Empire/Middenheim, Skaven and Wood Elves. Its just that I'm more scared of Brets than even Skaven, cos the skaven player isn't SAD, but the reputation of this Bretonnian player precedes him as arrogant, powerplaying and undefeated.

The reason I wouldn't want to balance it entirely is actually threefold.
Firstly, balanced Lists end up looking all the same, particulary with the DE and HE. I was hoping to keep flavour with Chariots and Dragons - less types of units and more of the same type of unit make an army themed.

Secondly, I rather dislike ALL of the HE Core choices, and will try to have as littel to do with them as possible. This is balanced for me by the fact that I love HE as a race, and all their Rare and Special Choices. Oh woe is me!

Lastly, The way this list would look on the feild is nuts, in my mind's eye. 6 chariots and 21 Heavy horse backed by 2 wyrmlings and a Dragon in 2000 points seems to me to be sheer power and glory; the stuff that HE should be all about.

I'm open to criticism, particularly if you think I'm going to get massacred. I guess I'm hoping that there are alterations that can bear the above three priorities in mind.

Haanz
13-07-2005, 09:11
So, you plan on trying to out-Bretonnian Bretonnians by using high elf cavalry?

For the record, all non-balanced lists look even MORE the same than a balanced. The difference is, balanced lists are generally less seen in the case of HE (as they're said to be useless, perhaps). I think your list looks boring and well.. it's nothing I haven't seen before either.

Want to get under the Bret players skin? Just go an Empire Gunline and make 'em cry.

... Er. On a productive note, the list actually looks like it'd do good vs all those other armies you play but the Bretonnian guy. Maybe not the Dwarfs if he isn't an infighter.

Korhil
13-07-2005, 10:44
Prince on Dragon with Lion Guard, Heavy Armour, helm of fortune, sheild, Guardian Phoenix, Lance
550

- A dragon is abit much in 2k if you really want a monster get a Griffon

BSB on Ithilmar Barded Steed with Dragon Armour and Lance
The Battle Banner
202

- Your BsB cant use a lance also trade the Dragon armour for Heavy armour

Scroll Caddy with 2 Dispell Scrolls and Channeller
145

- Fine

5 Silver Helms, nil upgrades 95

- Try to get full armour on them

5 Silver Helms, Musician 102

- Same as above

5 Silver Helms, Standard Bearer and Musician 116

- Drop standard and same as above

5 Dragon Princes with full command (better movement means more outmanuvering) 175

- try to bring this unit up to about 10

2 Tiranoc Chariots 170

- fine

2 Tiranoc Chariots 170

- Fine

2 Tiranoc Chariots 170

- Now your starting to overdo it

2 Great Eagles 100

- try to add another 2 to divert and march block

against brettonians id go seer council if you really want to win that bad

ironduke
13-07-2005, 11:34
[QUOTE=Haanz] The difference is, balanced lists are generally less seen in the case of HE (as they're said to be useless, perhaps).

I think balanced lists are the way forward for a goods time and a competitive force. I think my new army list that i have posted on my thread is balanced and effective.

rune
13-07-2005, 13:45
Ellyrian Reavers would block march moves by the knightly units if they're within 8", do this and give yourself an extra turn of bolt thrower blasting & maneuvering to prepare to break his units.

Riddy
14-07-2005, 07:40
Firstly, balanced Lists end up looking all the same, particulary with the DE and HE. I was hoping to keep flavour with Chariots and Dragons - less types of units and more of the same type of unit make an army themed.

If you think an all cavalry army chock full of chariots and a dragon is themed then i fear for the future of this game, your army is like a power gamers wet dream. It wont be fun to play against, have you ever played a chaos chariot army led by a dragon rider, i have, its not fun. The fact that you are trying to find valid reasons to explain an unbalanced and decidedly unfluffy army just shows that you cant admit you are a power gamer. Oh and i agree with Haanz, unbalanced armys always contain the same things, balanced armys are much more varied.

feintstar
14-07-2005, 12:50
Actually, I was being honest. Here's the other half of the thought process that made me make this list: Not just the Bretonian thing.

I got my hands on 20 Dire Avenger helms; made me want a greek themed group of units (not just a single unit that doesn't fit into the rest of my army); Chariots are classically Greek, and HE are sort of Greek influenced. Also, I figured a way to dragonify the chariots' look, feeding into the fact that...

I've already got the Dragon and the Princes, as I think they're some of the best models ever produced. Heavily converted, I might add.

I've also already converted the sweetest Banner bearer from Imrik's torso and head on a Horse with a HUGE banner.

So how do I take all of these clearly together themed units in an army? They take up a lot of points, and making them fit in requires minimising Core choices. If I could take blocks of spears in the points provided, I would: I've already got 20 and 20 archers also. But there aint the points, so I' had to take the helms, I guess.

So, under weight of pressure (I actually didn't think HE chariots were all that good), I won't take 6 chariots. I thought of them cos they are one of the few unit types that:
1. Look good via taking up a lot of tabletop space for a small no of points
2. Can have more than the 0-1 restriction that is on almost all the cool units in the HE list.

I'm hurt that You guys judged me so harshly so quickly. I'll try to cool the list.

MODIFICATIONS:
Subtract: 2 chariots, Mounted BSB, 2 units of SIlver Helms. (- 580ish)
Add: foot mounted Commander with AotG and Halberd 109
20 Spearmen: Banner 232
19 Spearmen: full command 239
580

Better? Effective but without beardiness? Fun to use? Will they get minced by any/all the above armies? Actually, I think I like this list a little better - ranks of glittering spears... less expensive chariots... won't look as big, less theme, but I can see it okayish...

Riddy
14-07-2005, 13:19
I'd say keep the all mounted force if you want, just reduce the number of chariots to 3-4 and use the extra points for more silver helms. Its not the fact that your whole force is mounted that the problem, it s the fact that 6 chariots is OTT. I would also drop chaneller off your caddy, he is a caddy after all, along with 2 chariots it gives you enough points for a couple more units of silver helms.

The only reason i judged you harshly was a dragon+6 chariots plus the thread title. Your idea seems valid and i guess your intent wasn't to powergame afterall.

PS-Foot mounted commander ;) :p

WhiteStar
11-08-2005, 10:43
Heh..six is nothing...I field a beast army with 10/11 chariots....Tuskgor chariots.

ironduke
11-08-2005, 11:47
Also your Dragon Princes give them the banner of Elryion (soz if spelt wrong can't remember) so you can make the most out of their 18' cause you count difficult terrain as open ground :cool:

corben_da
11-08-2005, 11:54
looks impressive in battlefield i bet, but i don't like doing armies against some armies, i try to make armies that are fun to play with against every army.
Yet i think that your army has good spirit, noble elves riding on steeds
and chariots and led by mighty elf lord on dragon... ;)

Setomidor
11-08-2005, 13:32
Id say keep the chariots of you want them. Since you´re gonna spend your hard earned cash on the game you should really make armies the way YOU want them instead of bending to critisism.

That said, I would probably not enjoy playing against this list cause it would make a mess out of my Darkelves. But then again, a Nuln army or a slaanesh character on a steed could make a mess out of yours.

Armywise i think it looks good, perhaps bow of the seafarer on the lord would make him even nastier but then he will be vurnerable against shooting.

//Seto

Tobias
11-08-2005, 19:01
ps loose the banenr with your dragon princes I think your bsb goed in that one ;)

DARKsoulx
14-08-2005, 11:49
you might wanna try
lord on dragon,
asarnil
3-5 silver helms
8 chariots.
thats alot of fun in 2k points your gonna eat brets.