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salty
04-04-2005, 16:13
Could someone please clarify the following for me:

a) Am I right in believing thay the Laughing God is an Eldar God?

b) Did the Old Ones create Torks which evolved into Orks or is this utter rubbish?

c)Which Ctan started eating the others and was the cause of this the Laughing God or Deciever?

Cheerz

Salty :)

worldshatterer
04-04-2005, 17:16
a]you're right
b]old ones created krorks which are now known as orks

eldar laughing god is rumoured to have tricked the outsider into attacking the other c'tan .

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-04-2005, 17:32
The laughing god is the god of the Harlies, who alot of players hate more than squats.

Wraith
04-04-2005, 17:52
a) Am I right in believing thay the Laughing God is an Eldar God?

What a strange question... are you asking if he is a different entity that the Deceiver? No one deffinitively knows... most people hate the idea they are one in the same entity and provide arguments as such.

The Yngir are in fact the 'evil Gods' of the Eldar so it would be correct to say the C'tan are in a sense 'Eldar Gods' but the term would be reffering to them in the religious sense rather than a term to describe their actual 'nature'. There is a difference in the nature of what constitues an Eldar warp spawned 'God-entity' and a Yngir (C'tan).


b) Did the Old Ones create Torks which evolved into Orks or is this utter rubbish?

You mean Krork... the Krork are/were green skinned and hardy... make your own mind up. It may well be better as you say to see the Krork as the modern day Ork's genetic anscestor rather than simply being Orks by another name. Anyway, 'yes' the old ones did create the Krork.


c)Which Ctan started eating the others and was the cause of this the Laughing God or Deciever?

If you take the opinion the Deciever and the Laughing God are seperate entities it goes like this -

Deceiver tempted the Nightbringer to eat other C'tan.

The Laughing God tricked the Outsider to eat other C'tan.

All the C'tan eventually decided to eat their brothers of course...

TheSonOfAbbadon
04-04-2005, 17:59
I thought the laughing god was stuck in a huge metal orb, thingie.

Wraith
04-04-2005, 18:06
No the Outsider's 'home' is a Dyson Sphere which is a huge metal sphere which encloses a star.

The Outsider is a C'tan.

The Outsider is not 'stuck' in the Dyson Sphere and he isn't asleep.

The Eldar Laughing God is rumoured to exist in the webway...


I've read stuff from many other forums and to be honest with you most people haven't got a clue about the truth about the Necron and related Eldar fluff. To many people present opinions as fact as well which is doubly bad in regards to the C'tan because many people don't like their pressence in the fluff and present their negative interpretations of their fluff as fact.

Kaoslord
05-04-2005, 23:22
In the short story "Deus Ex Machina" the Deciever mentions how surprised it is to see humanity and the Krork everywhere. At least one author believes that the Krork are the Orks. Makes sense that they couldn't even get their own name right.. Also, given that the Krork were created after the Enslaver Plague, it makes a lot of sense for the Orks to have this unique gestalt psychic presence (Power of the wargh!)

The Laughing God is the Eldar God that the Harliquins follow. Currently, either the Laughing God is the Deciever, or the Deciever had successfully masqueraded as the Laughing God on occasion.

Hence, when it's said that the Laughing God tricked the Outsider into devouring it's brothers, it could well be the Deciever who did that. It's also credited with convincing Nightbringer to do the same.

salty
06-04-2005, 08:26
Excellent, thanks everyone for that! I happened to be reading a thread on the C'tan on another forum with far less members, and it soon spiralled out of control with some downright crazy theories being bandied round.

But that has clarieied *pretty much* everything.

Salty :)

Wraith
06-04-2005, 09:21
Also, given that the Krork were created after the Enslaver Plague, it makes a lot of sense for the Orks to have this unique gestalt psychic presence (Power of the wargh!)

The Krork (and the Jokaero) were not created after the enslaver plague rather just at the start of it.

Shadowheart
06-04-2005, 10:25
I've read stuff from many other forums and to be honest with you most people haven't got a clue about the truth about the Necron and related Eldar fluff. To many people present opinions as fact as well which is doubly bad in regards to the C'tan because many people don't like their pressence in the fluff and present their negative interpretations of their fluff as fact.

Merely saying that other people are wrong doesn't mean you're right, as far as the reader is concerned what you're presenting as fact may just as well be false. What posters in 40K background ought to do wherever possible is to quote their sources, as exact as possible, so that there's a way to verify what information, if any, is correct.

Having to look up the actual text also helps the posters to make sure they're right in the first place, with the nature and volume of the background many of us have read it's easy to remember things wrong. And even if we remember right, it may well be a piece of background that's since been overriden by a more recent fluff change.

For example, I distincly remember how the Orks were the creation of the Brain Boyz (2nd, C:Orks, p. 4) and I've even read about how the Snotlings are what remains of said Brain Boyz (RT, Waaargh the Orks!, p. 6). That was all estabilished fluff-fact long before this 'Old Ones made everyone' stuff (3rd, C: Necrons, p. 26) came along.

DantesInferno
06-04-2005, 10:30
For example, I distincly remember how the Orks were the creation of the Brain Boyz (2nd, C:Orks, p. 4) and I've even read about how the Snotlings are what remains of said Brain Boyz (RT, Waaargh the Orks!, p. 6). That was all estabilished fluff-fact long before this 'Old Ones made everyone' stuff (3rd, C: Necrons, p. 26) came along.

Nothing to say the Brain Boyz weren't just the (Kr)Orks' name for the Old Ones, though, is there? Let's see.....ancient super-smart race manipulates the Orks' genes to be good warriors, then is wiped out in a strange intergalatic plague........It all seems like they could well be the same group.

Wraith
06-04-2005, 10:47
Merely saying that other people are wrong doesn't mean you're right, as far as the reader is concerned what you're presenting as fact may just as well be false.

Thank you for your 'philosophical insight' shadowheart but I did not claim to be 'right' I was simply making a statement.


For example, I distincly remember how the Orks were the creation of the Brain Boyz (2nd, C:Orks, p. 4) and I've even read about how the Snotlings are what remains of said Brain Boyz (RT, Waaargh the Orks!, p. 6). That was all estabilished fluff-fact long before this 'Old Ones made everyone' stuff (3rd, C: Necrons, p. 26) came along.

Yeah and squigs were orks that had been modified by the Tyranids, and Zoats existed and they could use power fists, not to mention Imperial guard could use rhinos, and harlequins could use land raiders, Beastmen were in the Guard, oh and lets not even get into the existence of the 'Squats'.

New fluff over rules old if it contradicts is my personal approach to the situation.

Black Ambience
06-04-2005, 10:54
I've read stuff from many other forums and to be honest with you most people haven't got a clue about the truth about the Necron and related Eldar fluff. To many people present opinions as fact as well which is doubly bad in regards to the C'tan because many people don't like their pressence in the fluff and present their negative interpretations of their fluff as fact.

Here here. And to quote the Necron fluff itself - "many an obscure truth is shrouded in legend". That is to say, there is very little we know for certain about the C'tan, and the mystery surrounding them allows each individual to come up with their own "version" of the C'tan, what they are and so on. In truth, we won't know interesting little bits of information such as "is the Deceiver is the Laughing God or not?" until something gets written in hard evidence. Until that time, assuming you can back up your argument with evidence, you are just as legitimate as anyone else.

I just happen to know thatmy take on things is more legit than everyone else's though! :p

Shadowheart
06-04-2005, 11:17
Thank you for your 'philosophical insight' shadowheart but I did not claim to be 'right' I was simply making a statement.

As was I, though I was not offering any philosophical insights. But apparently you're already aware of the problem I was pointing out. I can only hope someone out there is going to concider doing anything about it.


Nothing to say the Brain Boyz weren't just the (Kr)Orks' name for the Old Ones, though, is there? Let's see.....ancient super-smart race manipulates the Orks' genes to be good warriors, then is wiped out in a strange intergalatic plague........It all seems like they could well be the same group.

According the aforementioned page of the old Codex: Orks, the Brain Boyz weren't merely the creators of the other greenskinned races, but they were part of and the driving force behind their civilisation until they met their doom. Still, the background is vague enough to allow you to integrate old and new, but it doesn't seem to me the Old Ones quite fit the profile.

salty
06-04-2005, 15:15
...but it doesn't seem to me the Old Ones quite fit the profile.

I dunno, I heard a rumour about the Eldar being the Old Ones' builders, the Orks being the warriors and the humans being the workers. The everything went pear shaped and when the smoke had cleared the Eldar Empire had collapsed and Mankind and the Orks were on the rise across the length and breadth of the galaxy.

Salty :)

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-04-2005, 15:29
Right, it goes like this:

2 races: Necrontyr and Old ones

Old ones create Jokearo and Krorks, Necrontyr are pwned.

The C'tan come along and turn the Nexrontyr into the Necrons.

Krorks, Jokearo and Old ones are pwned.

The C'tan figure they should go into statis, then come out when there's more life to feast off.

Old ones run off/are dead.

Krorks become Orks.

Brain boyz happen by accident.

Brain boyz die away when the fungus that made them super intelligent was eaten.

Eldar come along, Humans, the great crusade, blah, you know this bit.

Necrons re emerge and purge the galaxy once again.

Tau appear, apparently they are Necrontyr who were given a second chance [apparently the Necrons were scared of them and put a big force field around their planet, the Tau ships are powerful enough to break through it, though].

The Etherals are apparently the Old ones in disguise [it would make sense, they tried a barabaric, idiot race of fungal close combat monsters, they were a flop, so an intelligent, civilized, long range race of slighty-short-people are a complete contrast, and will hopefully fare better].


Most of that is theory, but it makes alot of sense.

Wraith
06-04-2005, 15:33
I dunno, I heard a rumour about the Eldar being the Old Ones' builders, the Orks being the warriors and the humans being the workers. The everything went pear shaped and when the smoke had cleared the Eldar Empire had collapsed and Mankind and the Orks were on the rise across the length and breadth of the galaxy.

60 million years ago 'man' wasn't in existance but an amusing theory none the less.

The Eldar and the Krork were warrior races IMHO just in a different ways...

salty
06-04-2005, 15:39
I like that Theory SonOfAbaddon, until it suggests that the Tau are necrons who were given a second chance; I don't think that would be the case; okay the Ethereals are probably the Old Ones in disguise, but the Tau strike me as being anew and "Eldar-y" sort of race, more akin to Eldar troops than to Necrons, before or after they became machines.

Although it makes a lot more sense than my theory.

Salty :)

Wraith
06-04-2005, 15:47
Right, it goes like this:

2 races: Necrontyr and Old ones

Ok...


Old ones create Jokearo and Krorks, Necrontyr are pwned.

First the Necrontyr and the Old Ones (OOs) battled and out of all the races the OOs created the Jokearo and Krork were some of the last.


The C'tan come along and turn the Nexrontyr into the Necrons.

The Necrontyr get pushed back to the Halo worlds, search for a weapon to strike back at the OOs; they find the Nightbringer. OOs get their arses kickek leaving much of their empire in ruins.


Krorks, Jokearo and Old ones are pwned.

OOs getting really desperate create new races who have an even stronger link to the warp and also weaken the divide between the matterium and immaterium. Wars among young psychic races causes much havoc in previously peaceful warp creating on elevating the chaos powers etc.

A religion sprung up among the Necrontyr with the star gods at it's centre - the star gods offer immortality, feed on life force of entire Necrontyr race, Necrontyr become Necrons.


The C'tan figure they should go into statis, then come out when there's more life to feast off.

The Enslaver plague.

C'tan initiate first acts of great plan, stasis tombs, introduction of the pariah gene into ancient creatures of Earth.


Old ones run off/are dead.

Some OOs survive but their ancestors have devolved into primatives in back water worlds - C'tan consider their life essence as a particular 'treat' and go to some lengths to find them when they can.


Krorks become Orks.

In a fashion... no real evidence just conjecture.


Brain boyz happen by accident.

Brain boyz die away when the fungus that made them super intelligent was eaten.

Or never happened at all due to fluff changes through the editions.


Eldar come along, Humans, the great crusade, blah, you know this bit.

Necrons re emerge and purge the galaxy once again.

Necrons task is to harvest Pariah and exterminate psychers as per the C'tan's great plan.


Tau appear, apparently they are Necrontyr who were given a second chance [apparently the Necrons were scared of them and put a big force field around their planet, the Tau ships are powerful enough to break through it, though].

No evidence for this what so ever.


The Etherals are apparently the Old ones in disguise [it would make sense, they tried a barabaric, idiot race of fungal close combat monsters, they were a flop, so an intelligent, civilized, long range race of slighty-short-people are a complete contrast, and will hopefully fare better].

Erm no... no evidence, not even hints.


Most of that is theory, but it makes alot of sense.

As a theory fair enough but anything else...





My personal theory on the Necron appearence is that the metal bodies are constructed to mimic both Eldar and Ork phisiology - slender, limbs, and Eldar like skull, but stooped stance, protruding head, and heavy shoulders of an Ork.

The pariah cyborg on the other hand loos much more human as you would expect considering their 'half' human nature.

Minister
06-04-2005, 15:50
The Jokaero and Krork were both attempts to create troops as quickly as possible, whilst the Eldar were designed to be a full society, including a military element.

Reguards the Old Boyz, it seems that the Ork kultur developed after the departure of the true Old Ones and their empire from dominance. This being the case, and knowing for reasonably sure that the Krork became the Orks, it seems likley that either the Old Boyz were the Krork, or they were the Slann generals assigned to the Krork. If option A, the Krork would have been threatened by the growing numbers of the Enslavers and altered the warrior and slave castes' genetic structure using technology taken from the Slann. If option B it has much the same effect, but the Slann are directly responsible.

It is reasonably certain that the Etherials are not "Old Ones in disguise" (The word Transformers! sprang into my mind unbidden half way through typing that). Asside from anything else, they're on the wrong side of the galaxy, and giant space frogs arn't too good at disguises. :D Besides that, the Tau are more interesting plotwise if they simply developed on their own.

TheSonOfAbbadon
06-04-2005, 19:25
I doubt the Eldar are one of the Old ones' projects.

Black Ambience
06-04-2005, 19:59
I doubt the Eldar are one of the Old ones' projects.

Why?

There is a lot of evidence that supports the idea, and if I were the Eldar I'd be proud to eb the successor race to the most powerful psychic race the galaxy has ever seen.

salty
06-04-2005, 20:13
I'm sure I read somewhere or other that the Eldar at the evry least were created by the Old Ones...
Although my fluff knowledge is limited to late 2nd edition onwards.

Salty :)

worldshatterer
06-04-2005, 21:05
Why would anyone doubt that the Eldar are one of the old ones projects . It hints at in the Necron Codex's fluff section[pg25, bottom right paragraph] .like most GW hints its a poor imitation of subtlety, as on pg 61 in the campaign play section it treats the eldar as the sucessors and creations of the old ones, with this being reason for the necron wantig to kill them .

Minister
06-04-2005, 21:49
There's also the ideas dating back through second edition of the ELdar having learned their warp technology from the Slann.

Black Ambience
06-04-2005, 22:45
Heh, this would be all that evidence I mentioned.

Someone should sticky this thread - the topic came up every few weeks on the original Portent, would be good to nail it down here and now on this version!

athamas
06-04-2005, 22:57
well fluff will hopefully be clarified when they release the new eldar/ork codex's

worldshatterer
06-04-2005, 23:12
That would be nice, as i really hate having to read other peoples codices to learn about my own races background, and as an eldar player having the rest of my fluff in the second ed codex .

KDP Morgoth
07-04-2005, 01:13
Heh, this would be all that evidence I mentioned.

Someone should sticky this thread - the topic came up every few weeks on the original Portent, would be good to nail it down here and now on this version!

Before the Fall (No Pun Intended ;)) there was a Fluff F.A.Q. sticky at the top of the background board. It would probally be a good idea to set a new one up.

salty
07-04-2005, 10:50
Well, you've all answered my question, then obliterated the first answer and replaced it with a mind numbing argument of sorts :D
God it feels great now that Portent is back!

Salty :)

malika
07-04-2005, 22:36
Are the Slann/Slaan the Old Ones, or are they a different race, like in WFB?

TheSonOfAbbadon
07-04-2005, 22:49
yes they are the Old Ones.

Minister
07-04-2005, 23:07
In both cases, the Old Ones are the Slann who were around before their fall from grace (the Enslaver Plague in 40K, the Warp Gates in Fantasy, which may have been connected to each other). In either case, the Old Ones are the Slann of... well... olden times.

HalberdBlue
08-05-2005, 02:28
Eldar come along, Humans, the great crusade, blah, you know this bit.


Eldar came along before the Necrons went into stasis. That was when Khaine was shattered by the Nightbringer because Vaul decided to slack off on his last sword.

EDIT: Sorry for resurrecting a thread, got this thread out of Google and didn't bother to check the date...

Norminator
08-05-2005, 15:14
In the Krork - ork theory, Codex: Necrons says that 'the nightbringer sowed the fear of death in all races, all except the Krork, which remained unafraid of death'. Sounds familiar??

Note, this is not a dircet quote, just the basic idea.

Rabid Bunny 666
08-05-2005, 15:29
the old ones were not slaan, the slaan were the old ones minions as per fantasy fluff, but i wouldn't say that it was any different in 40K

DantesInferno
09-05-2005, 03:05
In the Krork - ork theory, Codex: Necrons says that 'the nightbringer sowed the fear of death in all races, all except the Krork, which remained unafraid of death'. Sounds familiar??

Note, this is not a dircet quote, just the basic idea.

It's pretty clear that the Krork are the ancestors of the Orks, beyond that, and beyond the obvious similarity of the names.

Firstly, there are clear parallels between the old concept of the "Brain Boyz" and the Old Ones - ancient race genentically engineers (Kr)orks to be innate warriors/mechanics etc, then is wiped out in galactic plague.

Also the Deceiver states: "Knowledge, mostly. I wanted to know how the galaxy had fared, who was left after the plague. You can't imagine my surprise on finding your kind and the Krork scattered everywhere. I've seen you humans trying to forge an empire in the name of a corpse. I have seen your churches to the machine. Racially, your fear and superstition are most gratifying. You make excellent subjects."

Now, when he states that "your kind and the Krork scattered everywhere", what are the most common races in the 41st millenium- humans and Orks, obviously. And what would the Deceiver call the Orks?

salty
09-05-2005, 08:50
Also the Deceiver states: "Knowledge, mostly. I wanted to know how the galaxy had fared, who was left after the plague. You can't imagine my surprise on finding your kind and the Krork scattered everywhere. I've seen you humans trying to forge an empire in the name of a corpse. I have seen your churches to the machine. Racially, your fear and superstition are most gratifying. You make excellent subjects."

Now, when he states that "your kind and the Krork scattered everywhere", what are the most common races in the 41st millenium- humans and Orks, obviously. And what would the Deceiver call the Orks?

I've never heard that quote before, but I like it, it has a kind of age old malevolence to it.

However, what would the Necrons make of the Tau, and expanding young race who were not around at the time of their going into stasis and the Enslaver Plague? Suitable food source? Or are they simply too Good?

Also, the Necrons and The Matrix have a strange similarity, especially since the Necrons came before the Matrix films (probably been said before but still). Machines and Ctan breed humans like livestock, humans have no idea, Machines and Ctan harvest humans for energy.

Salty :)

Karhedron
09-05-2005, 09:36
Eldar came along before the Necrons went into stasis. That was when Khaine was shattered by the Nightbringer because Vaul decided to slack off on his last sword.
Khaine was not shattered by the Nightbringer. The two fought and Khaine eventually defeated Nightbringer although he was contaminated by fragments of its necrodermis in the process. Khaine was shattered millions of years later in his battle against Slaanesh during the Fall.

Wraith
09-05-2005, 09:45
Not Originally Posted by Wraith
Eldar come along, Humans, the great crusade, blah, you know this bit. Eldar came along before the Necrons went into stasis. That was when Khaine was shattered by the Nightbringer because Vaul decided to slack off on his last sword.

EDIT: Sorry for resurrecting a thread, got this thread out of Google and didn't bother to check the date...

I suppose it could be confusing to you but my comments in post #19 (http://www.portent.net/forums/showpost.php?p=9551&postcount=19) are in bold while the normal text is that of TheSonOfAbbadon from post #16 (http://www.portent.net/forums/showpost.php?p=9524&postcount=16).

You've misquoted me.

DantesInferno
09-05-2005, 10:45
However, what would the Necrons make of the Tau, and expanding young race who were not around at the time of their going into stasis and the Enslaver Plague? Suitable food source? Or are they simply too Good

The fact that the Tau don't have a big warp signature (ie their souls don't burn brightly in the Warp) shouldn't really affect their taste to the C'tan, since the souls of the people consumed seem to be completely ignored by the procedure.

However, it is interesting to note that one of the factors making human souls so tasty is their superstiton and fear, so it seems reasonable that the more optimistic, upbeat and less opressed Tau will be less appealing to the C'tan. So it seems that their "Goodness" may have some effect on their tastiness to the C'tan.



Also, the Necrons and The Matrix have a strange similarity, especially since the Necrons came before the Matrix films (probably been said before but still). Machines and Ctan breed humans like livestock, humans have no idea, Machines and Ctan harvest humans for energy.


Well, although the Necrons as a race were indeed developed before the Matrix movie (WD 217 or so, so roughly 1997) the concept of the C'tan feeding off humans like livestock was strictly a development of the 3rd ed Necron Codex. The C'tan weren't really linked to the Necrons at all until a couple of years ago. So while the 'Crons were first, they certainly took a great deal more from the Matrix movies that the movies took from the 'Crons.

Karhedron
09-05-2005, 11:53
And the Necron troops take far more from the Terminator films than anything else.

salty
09-05-2005, 11:59
Yeah, thats true, those old Necrons were a complete rip off of the Terminator...

Salty :)

Jedi152
09-05-2005, 12:28
Yeah, thats true, those old Necrons were a complete rip off of the Terminator...
Only the old necrons? They have a rule called "We'll be back!" for gods sake. How GW never got in trouble over that i don't know.

salty
09-05-2005, 13:18
lol, I meant the old models were a rip off, but yeah, good point.

I think its only GW who is allowed to whine on about copyright laws...

Salty :)

i like pie
25-10-2005, 10:51
i thought that the outsider was just the word among eldar and other c'tan for the nightbringer, if this is true then it would also make sens that the deciever and the laughing god are the same aswell just with different names among different races

Mechanicus
25-10-2005, 11:29
i thought that the outsider was just the word among eldar and other c'tan for the nightbringer, if this is true then it would also make sens that the deciever and the laughing god are the same aswell just with different names among different races

The laughing god, Cegoragh, is not the Deciever, The laughing god is in the webway, and C'tan cannot get into the warp/webway. It can kill them.

The Outsider is a different C'tan to the Nightbringer. The Outsider is in an equivilant of a Dyson sphere just in front of Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Just thought I'd clear things up.

Shas'o'Fior
25-10-2005, 12:41
Wait...so is the Outsider crazy (pretty sure he is) and/or trapped in the dyson sphere?
someone dig up Inquisitor Engel's theories on this (along with Kage's comments)

azimaith
25-10-2005, 12:42
Could someone please clarify the following for me:

a) Am I right in believing thay the Laughing God is an Eldar God?

Yes the laughing god is an eldar god.



b) Did the Old Ones create Torks which evolved into Orks or is this utter rubbish?

The old ones created the Krork which are described as green skinned. Later, in the necron codex, the deciever says "I am surpised to see the krork spread throughout the galaxy" strongly suggesting the krorks are orks.



c)Which Ctan started eating the others and was the cause of this the Laughing God or Deciever?

The deciever is credited with starting c'tan cannibalization. In a fluff text in the Necron codex it shows the laughing god tricking the outsider. In fluff text on the GW website it credits the laughing god with starting c'tan cannibalization.

There are strong suggestions that the laughing god and the deciever are the same but no concrete proof. Such as the deciever manipulating the enemies of the c'tan against his own brothers, and a piece of fluff text on the GW website telling about Kaelis Ra (the nightbringer) fighting against Khaine and his soul sword warriors, and how the Laughing God told Khaine the one weakness of the nightbringer.

So theres a couple possibilities.
A: Laughing God=Deciever and vice versa. Possible.
B: Laughing God not being the deciever, but doing the same things. Possible, but unsupported by fluff which tells us what the deciever did.
C: The deciever and the laughing god being different entities, but the deciever sometimes changing his form to appear as the laughing god, to get his manipulations through so he could exploit the eldar against his brothers who were stronger. Possible, not noted either way in the fluff. Probably the most palatable for most eldar players who don't like the whole c'tan thing. (I think they're mad they aren't oldest anymore :))

ryng_sting
25-10-2005, 17:55
Kork are indeed the Orks of the past. As with all the races under their care, the OO didn't 'create' them, but did have a hand in nurturing them. They were intended simply as foot soldiers to guard the OO's remaining places of power.

Deceiver and the Laughing God are two seperate gods, but they act in similar ways, and did many impersonations of other gods (including each other). Tricky? Yes. But I fail to see why people take two and two and make five. They're not the same being. C'tan are C'tan, and the Laughing God is a warp entity. Two completely different things. The warp is anaethema to a C'tan, and yet is where the Great Harlequin resides. And, if nothing else, consider this: how can Slaanesh and the Laughing God tussle over soul of a Solitaire in the warp, if the latter can't exist there?

El_Machinae
25-10-2005, 20:59
Kork ... were intended simply as foot soldiers to guard the OO's remaining places of power.

I've always thought of them as being a cheap, expendible nuisance. The cost to 'seed' orks is very low (especially if you're dealing in timelines going into decades), and seeding them onto a planet (even one you don't want) causes a speed-bump when necrons want to take the planet. Not a huge speed-bump, mind you, but the speed bump is more expensive than the initial seeding.

The weakness of krorks is that they are extremely wasteful. They burn and consume many of the easy-to-find consumables/resources on planets that they land on. This means, even after extermination, the planet is not nearly as valuable as it could have been (in that the coal/oil has been burnt, the uranium has been mined, etc.). Cheap energy is key to have a wealthy society.

Incendax
17-11-2006, 06:06
In the beginning the 'Old Ones' held dominion over the galaxy. As the dominant race they lived for ages, lacked in ambition and were patient to sit back and watch the unfolding of history while observing the Immaterium in all its quite and gentle waves. They were not the only races to have achieved sentience, but they were the uncontested lords. Perhaps Chaos Gods existed in ages past from races with strife and history, but this was a time of peace and by all accounts they did not exist.

Among the other sentient races at the time was one ill-fated group known as the Necrontyr. Cursed with a lifespan measured in but a few decades they struggled to achieve what they could in the time they each had. The Necrontyr ambition flared brightly, and when they achieved the ability to travel the stars they were faced with the passive superiority of the 'Old Ones'. They seethed with jealosy and upraised their technology such that they might wage war upon the 'Old Ones'.

The 'Old Ones' took little threat from the Necrontyr but were most perplexed that the Immaterium rippled so violently from them. When the Necrontyr attacked, the 'Old Ones' almost dismissed them entirely, but something dark was brewing in the Immaterium. The 'Old Ones' acted, and easily beat back the blossoming race of the Necrontyr. If any other sentient races resented the 'Old Ones' history does not mention it. In a fit of cuirosity the 'Old Ones' sought to discover the meaning of this violent aspect that had appeared in their otherwise calm Immaterium: the 'Old Ones' set forth and seeded the galaxy with sentient life capable of a psychic presence.

The 'Old Ones' seeded the Eldar first, followed later by Humans and few others. It was only after the C'tan became involved that the 'Old Ones' seeded the Krork. In the meantime, the 'Old Ones' took the most interest in the Eldar and became surrogate parents to this race, teaching them of technology and uplifting them to the wonders of the Immaterium. The humans were forgotten and left to develop on their own.

The Necrontyr, by some fluke, discovered the existance of one of the C'tan feeding from the energy of their own star. They made contact with Kaelis Ra of that solar system traded them its knowledge in exchange for Necrontyr souls. The Necrontry were divided, the politicians plotted to trick Kaelis Ra by offering 'Old One' souls to gain favor, while the religious turned to worship of the C'tan. Kaelis Ra, for its measure enjoyred the 'Old Ones' more and was happy to go along with the Necrontyr idea. Again the Necrontyr waged war and this time the 'Old Ones' truly felt the impact.

As Kaelis Ra became engorged with the souls of Necrontyr and 'Old Ones' alike, other C'tan became interested and sought to broker deals. The Deciever was the most influential, preying upon the religious cast and convincing them to join the C'tan in immortality: Necrotic Armor. The Necrontyr agreed and the war against the 'Old Ones' raged all the more fierce for their newfound potency. It is not known for sure wether the Necrontyr became the Necrons purely for religious reasons or if they were aware of the comming storm of Enslavers and sought to protect themselves.

The comming storm was dark indeed. The 'Old Ones' spent a long age observing their seeded races and watching their effect on the Immaterium. Their emotions collectively caused a great upheaval and the 'Old Ones' were torn between scientific objectivity and being aghast at what was becomming of the Immaterium. Too late to put a stop to what they had begun, the Necrontyr pushed in on them with C'tan technology and shattered their seat of power.

The Immaterium was in upheaval, great storms ripping across it as what may have been the first of the manifest Chaos Gods made itself known to the Eldar who after ages of peace and being upraised by the 'Old Ones' then had to battle on the behalf of them against the Necrons. They lost at first, but their capacity for war birthed Khaine and gave them new stength to carry on. But war was not the only thing to be born from the Immaterium.

As ages of battle were raged the Old Ones resisted erradication. They seeded a race based on their observation of their brain-child, the Eldar. They created the Krork to aid them against the Necron genocide and imbued them with psychic gestalt and a genetic aptitude for mechanics. Afterall, one great facet of any military is supply lines and training troops. The Krork surpassed these essentials. This was a perhaps a futile effort as the swirling chaos of the Immaterium beget the Enslavers.

It may be hard to tell where the Enslavers came from. Was it the 'Old Ones' themselves who, with their great psychic might, were disturbed by their apparent desperation against the Necron threat? Was is the Eldar? Or the scattered planets populated by the humans so full of strife? Perhaps it was the Krork who were designed to be slaves. It surely was not the Necrons, whom the 'Old Ones' observed had no further impact upon the Immaterium once they made their dark pacts with The Deciever, surrendering their souls.

But the Enslavers did come, and from the warp they laid waste to all life in the galaxy save what few scattered remnants that could hide. The Eldar hid themselves masterfully, avoiding much of the Enslavers wrath. The Humans were nearly erradicated, and the Krork just as much. What other uninvolved sentient species there were at the time were likely also destroyed. The 'Old Ones' were the most psychically rich, and the first to fall to the Enslavers assault though a few took cues from the children, the Eldar.

In the waning years of battle it was Khaine that tried to stike down Kaelis Ra and was tainted in the process. When the Eldar fled, Khaine was left without the stength to resist such darkness. Faced with starvation at the hands of the Enslavers, the C'tan ordered the necrons to bury their armies and await a time of reknewed life. The Necrons slept. The C'tan slept. In the wake of apocalpyse it was the subtle stirrings of life that changed the face of the Galaxy.

After many ages the Eldar returned with much of they past glory they had intact. They took over rulership of the Immaterium and webways as the other races struggled to lift their heads back out of the muck. The scattered humans bred, struggled, sickened, died and were born again. The krork had no guiding force left and while reborn time and time again they waged war on themselves. The very basics of this strife filled life gave birth to the Chaos Gods Nurgle and Tzeench, and all the while the Eldar ate, drank and made merry.

It was the birth of the chaos god Slaanesh from the sheer indulgances of the Eldar that sparked the Eldars fall. Khaine, weakened as he was, could not fulfill his purpose of war but battled with Slaanesh regardless but his incarnation was shattered across the Immaterium as the ideals of the Eldar failed yet again. The great Eye of Terror burst forth and the Eldar knew defeat at their own hands. To the Humans and the Krork this event almost went without notice, but the effects would reshape the destiny of both.

Time slipped away from us again, and the lowly Humans who were left to struggle on their own came to possess the most frightening and brutal psychic potential. From them the face of Chaos was reshaped as humans warred against themselves from their scattered colonies left after the Enslavers wreaked their havok. This overwhelming embodiment of battle, vengeance, and hatred changed the way sundered Khaine existed and he became the dark god Khorne; oldest of the Chaos Gods yet born again into a more terrifying visage.

*Tired now*

Terminatorphoenix
17-11-2006, 13:41
incendax,you my friend have just summed up space,time and all existance without using the numbers 42.you are my new best fgriend

Josiah
17-11-2006, 14:35
You basically summed up what I thought about the whole thing and answered a few questions.

Rockerfella
17-11-2006, 16:39
The Laughing God is the Eldar God that the Harliquins follow. Currently, either the Laughing God is the Deciever, or the Deciever had successfully masqueraded as the Laughing God on occasion.

Hence, when it's said that the Laughing God tricked the Outsider into devouring it's brothers, it could well be the Deciever who did that. It's also credited with convincing Nightbringer to do the same.

Or visa versa...

I suspect its more likely that the laughing god imitated the deciever, and as such was able to trick the other c'tan. The c'tan wouldn't have been tricked by someone that looks like a 'laughing god'. They would however have been more likely to be tricked by somthing imitating one of their own.

Just my 2 peneth.

:)

crazycraig35
17-11-2006, 17:15
It's pretty set in stone that the Laughing God and the Deciever are separate entities. Considering that the Laughing God only lives in a place that any C'Tan can never go. It's too eay just to say that omething you don't know is related to a C'Tan. What's next? Are people going to attribute the Horus Heresy to the C'Tan??

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
17-11-2006, 17:44
Yeah, thats true, those old Necrons were a complete rip off of the Terminator...

Salty :)

I agree, the look of the necrons takes from the terminator films. There is also similarities between necrons and Dr Who's "cybermen". The cybermen were meant to be an ancient race who went into stasis like tombs after a massive war. See "Tomb Of The Cybermen" and "Attack Of The Cybermen". Pariahs also remind me of Cybermen too. Add in some egyptian imagery to spice things up and give some flavour and theres your necrons. :D

Which is of course perfect because all those elements are much loved by me :P

deversnik
17-11-2006, 17:47
if you look at them from the Fantasy to 40k perspective they are Undead to 40k, and the C'tan are like Necromancers, especially NightBringer

Rockerfella
17-11-2006, 18:33
In the beginning the 'Old Ones' held dominion over the galaxy. As the dominant race they lived for ages, lacked in ambition and were patient to sit back and watch the unfolding of history while observing the Immaterium in all its quite and gentle waves. They were not the only races to have achieved sentience, but they were the uncontested lords. Perhaps Chaos Gods existed in ages past from races with strife and history, but this was a time of peace and by all accounts they did not exist..........


Awesome. Truely awesome account.

However, Khaine DID defeat the Nightbringer... bless his soul. :D

carl
17-11-2006, 21:01
One minor issue their. Humans where seeded on Terra at this point as i understand it, but they hadn't got much beyond fish in the sea yet. Ceartianly no monkeys or humans around at this point.

Their are also a few other odments that don't match up with what i know, but thats another matter and most are minor.

Brian888
17-11-2006, 23:02
It's pretty set in stone that the Laughing God and the Deciever are separate entities. Considering that the Laughing God only lives in a place that any C'Tan can never go. It's too eay just to say that omething you don't know is related to a C'Tan. What's next? Are people going to attribute the Horus Heresy to the C'Tan??



Yes, they're separate. I imagine that they both imitated each other often though, so it probably got very confusing for spectators.