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Champion of Biel-Tan
06-01-2007, 19:13
hello all

I am a complete newbie to Fantasy. I read the rules and played some games with borrowed models with Tomb Kings. And now I want to start an army of my own. The army I liked the most was Beastmen. Before I start buying and collecting them I wanted some information on what they can do on the battlefield and not so much tactics but how they play as an army.

thanks in advance

Makaber
06-01-2007, 19:30
First of all, it's a pretty good starting point to Warhammer since half your units don't need to concern themselves with charge archs and line of sight.

The typical army is founded on three pillars: Beastherds, chariots, and monsters. It's a very offensive army: Extremely few units in its arsenal can hope to hold against a solid charge, and the army relies on combined charges and sheer force to win its combats. This is unlike most other armies, where you typically want to invest heavily in the so called "static combat resolution", that is, ranks, banners, numbers, and the like. Beastmen win by killing stuff.

It's main strength is superb mobility. Its basic troops have a move of 5", where the norm is 4". The hitty elements, like minotaurs and chariots, have 6"-7". The beastherds, which you will probably have a few of, are skirmishers and can run circles around ranked troops, and are quite capable troops on their own as well.

All in all, beastmen are a very fun army, both to play with and to play against. For further advice by overly enthusiastic beastmen players, check out The Herdstone (http://s2.invisionfree.com/herdstone).

kyussinchains
07-01-2007, 14:30
further to the points made by makaber, the beasts are a very versatile list, with the ambush rule, you can have units arriving all over the board, giving you the ability to surround your enemy (a very strong psychological advantage) which also has the bonus of automatically destroying any fleeing enemies who flee into your units.

You have the option of taking a minotaur army, which is very powerful and damaging, as well as various other army types.

You finally also have the option of including daemons and mortals in your army, you can field units of chaos knights, warriors, and even some powerful chaos characters (providing you dont end up with their leadership being higher than your own)

The beast magic lore is very underrated, with useful combat and movement spells.

Your shamans are also capable fighters (when compared with most other magic users) which means that their inclusion in a frontline unit doesnt tend to impair their fighting prowess much.

Finally, you have access to morghur, who is way beyond cool!

Champion of Biel-Tan
07-01-2007, 14:56
Finally, you have access to morghur, who is way beyond cool!

What is this morghur thing actually?

kyussinchains
07-01-2007, 15:29
Morghur is a beastman character, he's a spawn-creature with dozens of powerful special rules, because he has an aura of mutation around him, friendly and enemy units take hits if they're too close, if wounds are caused, chaos spawn are created, and you can use this to your advantage by taking units of cheap chaos hounds, putting them near him, and generating very useful chaos spawns!

He's also all but immune to missile fire, and has loads of other great special rules too.

plus, the model's pretty cool

truthsayer
07-01-2007, 15:34
At first morghur just seems broken, if you read his two dozen rules he isnt that bad. I think skinks would have a field day with the spawns, or I would use Mengils lads to get the big ugly git!

Makaber
07-01-2007, 16:16
Problem with Morghur is that if you want to field him, it fundamentally changes the army is played. You'll also need tons of spawn models, so it's quite a commitment to get a Morghur army going, as opposed to most other special characters, which you can just include instead of your vanilla lord.

About the ambush rule: A lot of people shun it because it's so random, but just the threat of a unit appearing anywhere on the table edge is often enough to severely impact how the enemy commits his forces on the field.

Champion of Biel-Tan
07-01-2007, 18:19
Wow that Morghur sounds pretty strong, but I don't like Chaos Spawns very much. But what moved you guys to play Beastmen. The Models? The Rules? The Fluff? The Goatheads?

Makaber
08-01-2007, 02:34
For me, it was a couple of things:

I've always been drawn towards armies with an aggressive playing style. I feel that if you're fast enough to avoid being hit, and hit hard enough yourself to avoid retaliation, you don't need a defense. Of course my plans rarely works out as intended, but I like to stick to the principle because it looks cool on paper. :p

They're the underdogs of the Warhammer world, something that really appeals to me. I'm sick and tired of reading about invincible chaos champions and elves that never make mistakes, and Beastmen are a welcome change of pace. Their only role in the setting seems to be to be slaughtered in huge numbers to show off how powerful the heroes (wood elves, Valten, the Bretonnia King, whoever) are, so it's really great to field an army of your own and administer some righteous Beastman revenge on the local High Elf player.

Finally, I like the feel of the army; they're so gritty and unsubtle. And the miniatures are wonderful (just the actual beastmen, mind you. Not the horrible monsters).

lokigod
08-01-2007, 05:21
hmm , I played beastmen and enjoyed them alot. although most of the time morghur is considered serious:cheese: . Any way they are a fun army i just didnt like the models as much as my wood elfs, so they became my obession:). As for a good starter army i would recommend them for couple of reasons.
1. they excel in the movement phase.
2. they have access to mortal and demon units if you choose.
3. herds are cheap so if you make a mistake and lose one no big deal.
4.ambushing is just too damn fun.
5. just make sure you use hounds they are so nice and closest thing your gonna get too fast cav except centaurs.

kyussinchains
08-01-2007, 12:12
I love the idea of them being everywhere, they have no great scheme, they just exist to disrupt everyone else.

I love the idea of hordes of screaming weirdos attacking a village near a forest, and the total brutality of the background is really appealing to me also.

Not to mention the vast array of troops, and characterful magic items available to them!

Gorbad Ironclaw
08-01-2007, 15:08
Finally, you have access to morghur, who is way beyond cool!



And at that point you stopped playing Warhammer and introduced possibly the most broken character in the entire game...

A once off as a novelty could possibly be fun. But thats about it.

Selsaral
08-01-2007, 17:54
At first I was just happy to have such great screeners for expensive mortal and daemon units. Beast herds are really great at that.

But against opponents like skaven, the bruteforce power of chaos warriors (much less chosen warriors) is more than is necessary. Beasts have fewer expensive, armoured troops to get picked off by jezzails, ratling guns, and warp lightning, and beast herds are still plenty strong (with their 2 rank bonuses) to crush almost all skaven infantry. Besides, they are massively more manueverable, can charge 360, etc etc. And they still have access to all the brutal chaos mortal magic items (like the staff of change). Be careful of panic and a little bit of unruly and they can work great. And don't forget that dragon ogres are immune to warp lightning spells and the warp lightning cannon.

So it really depends on the opponent. Against a sauros-heavy lizardman opponent, I'd probably want some chaos warriors. And against dwarves, beast herds are pathetically inneffective.

Champion of Biel-Tan
08-01-2007, 18:14
I like to start an all Beastmen army with little or no daemons/mortals in it. My friends already played Fantasy so my regular opponents will probably be: Skaven, High Elves, Ogre Kingdoms and Lizardmen. Anyone got suggestions on what to use against these armies? And I heard that Beastmen chariots were really cheesy, Is this true?

Shadowseer Crofty
08-01-2007, 18:20
Finally, I like the feel of the army; they're so gritty and unsubtle. And the miniatures are wonderful (just the actual beastmen, mind you. Not the horrible monsters).

i hope and trust that the exeption to that is the shaggoth, that is a damn amazing model

Selsaral
08-01-2007, 21:00
I like to start an all Beastmen army with little or no daemons/mortals in it. My friends already played Fantasy so my regular opponents will probably be: Skaven, High Elves, Ogre Kingdoms and Lizardmen. Anyone got suggestions on what to use against these armies? And I heard that Beastmen chariots were really cheesy, Is this true?

I hear all sorts of cries of cheese that I just can't understand, so I guess I can't answer this for you. They are core, and they are cheap, and they are good, so is that cheesy? Sounds about as cheesy as any other army's quality troops.

Against skaven, dragon ogres rule. I usually give them extra hand weapons so they do better against blocks of clanrats or slaves if forced to face them head-on. They are immune to the warp lightning cannon and the primary skaven spell warp lightning, both of which devastate other troops. Of course, jezzails will still annihilate them so be careful (or get into melee ASAP as then shots are randomized). Beast herds with a melee character or two can walk through endless numbers of slaves or clanrats. A beastlord with the mark of tzeentch, the staff of change, and whatever else loves leading beast herds through skaven. I like beast herd units of 25-30 with full command, so they can last forever and compete with unit strength for combat resolution. Units of that size are still relatively cheap.

Against high elves, take care of unruly. High elves are extremely fast, and against beast herds charges from two opposing angles can lead to flank charges and cancelled ranks. My high elf opponent loves to have chariots and calvary on both sides of the field to take advantage of any unit that blunders forward. Against silver helms or chariots head-on, beast herds (for their cost) are excellent. Dragon ogres are a chariot's worst nightmare, same with cavalry (even when they get the charge on the dragon ogres), so again dragon ogres are one of the best units you can field. Great weapons for them in this situation, as they rarely get the charge against the faster high elves and they want that S7 for armour reduction and chariot annihilation. Watch out for bolt throwers.

For lizardmen I found that tzeentch spells were quite effective, particularly indigo fire (t2 skinks just love it). Similarly, if he's got big blocks of Sauros or Temple Guard, slannesh spells can do horrible, horrible things to them. Panic protection is critical against lizardmen, due to skinks and salamanders, so consider gorthor or a similar ld9 general. Consider lots of further panic protection marks and gear.

Ogre kingdoms: never faced them, but the rending sword and the hellfire sword sound juicy against them.

DesolationAngel
08-01-2007, 21:18
I've got a undivided beast army, pure beasts, no mortal or daemons and the only monsters are minotaurs.

I like them as the models are great, they play very differently to other armies. They are reasonably fast, but mostly require mutliple charges to win combats, unless if you charge small units.

Chariots are great (I use 4), ambush is OK but risky and generally you have a all combat army with fairly low leadership, save for a beast lord, units (herds) can also run at the enemy and others (centigors) are a bit random, all adds to the fun.

Think of a more controlled skimishing goblin army, that are better in combat, but lack ranked units (although I use a 503pt unit of bestigor inc lord, (warbanner and 3 ranks) and have marginally better leadership. You will outnumber your opponent and be harder to hit with shooting, although most of the army lacks armour saves.

I think they're a great army personally, not always easy to win with, esp against undead (although MoCU helps a bit), but to me they have the best models out of all the armies and look kick ass on the table.

(I don't know about running rings round enemy units though as skimishers are now march blocked.)

M_M
14-01-2007, 11:56
Like everyone says beastmen are cheaper and more numerous than the other chaos armies, hard to hit, watch out for the low leadership and big ranked units if you don't have the hard hitting units

I have been planning a tzeentch beast army with lots of chariots, BUT I found out I have a different copy of the army book which allows chariots to have marks I guess they decided to cut that out but can anyone tell me how to know which is the updated version of the book please

Makaber
14-01-2007, 13:26
As far as I know there is just one edition of the Beasts of Chaos book, and it does not allow marks on chariots. References to marked chariots found in other rules and army list entries are a consequence of very sloppy editing, and are remains of the playtesting phases.