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John Wayne II
07-01-2007, 12:37
With so many complaints about the nerf they got in the new book, I was wondering if anyone still used them and if so how. Or are they well and truly extinct? Obviously, I don't own any of them...but maybe you can persuade me otherwise. ;)

All comments welcome.

Orcboy_Phil
07-01-2007, 12:54
As long as you used to use them in a phalanx there still the same points cost. Its just that there two points cheaper than orks in that configuration and orcs are just supieor like that.
Personally I never really like goblins, more a night goblin man myself, they look better.

Steel_Legion
07-01-2007, 13:08
if its a 2point difference between them, and orcs are stronger (on a charge? choppas?) tougher and braver, they seem redundant to me, though I am not an O%G player i dont see much use for them on foot now, maybe wolf riders, and maybe a use for night goblins, but not ordinary ones

Braad
07-01-2007, 22:40
I've got one unit, planning to go with 3 (2x30 with spears, 21 with bows), but indeed I use the one unit less then before. It's just that I like all that is green so I still want the little buggers, but combat-wise i'dd find the boyz with 'm choppa's more appealing.

Avian
08-01-2007, 12:19
I find that the common gobbos with hand weapons, shields and light armour are still okay, though of course anything struggles to compare with Orc Boyz, who are only 2 points more per model.

See also my article on the Uses for Goblin Infantry (http://folk.ntnu.no/~tarjeia/avian/tactics/goblin_infantry.php)

Tutore
08-01-2007, 12:59
I read all your articles, Avian, and find them all interesting. I still struggle, however, to find any point in common goblins against night goblins. The latter having 1 point less of armour and one of leadership (which isn´t that high in commons tough), but many more possibilities (nets, fanatics, etc.).

Avian
08-01-2007, 13:11
Well, if you are not going to be taking those upgrades anyway, then there is little reason not to take common Gobbos. Heck, a Night Goblin unit that has nets instead of the light armour of common Goblins might do a bit better in close combat, but it is more vulnerable to being shot to death on the way in, which reduces its precious rank bonus and unit strength.

But Night Goblins are over all slightly better, I agree with that.

Fredmans
08-01-2007, 18:53
I still use one unit of Common Goblins (hw, shield, light armour) and full command. I toy with them as Black Goblins (mimicking the far superior Black Orcs). They are not worthless, but susceptible to panic and suffering from low ld.

/Fredmans

Braad
08-01-2007, 18:56
Gobbo's don't really need the shields. If 10 or 12 die... who cares!
And then they are as cheap as night gobbo's with an additional point of Ld indeed.
My problem there is that they already all of them have shield, and I'm not taking them of. I did so with my wolf riders in order not to loose the fast cavalry, but with pain in my heart.

I think night goblins can be a standalone unit with their upgrades (trust me, I've seen it) while common gobbo's can only be a support unit. And that makes them less usable then their nightly brethren.

Chicago Slim
08-01-2007, 22:16
I still use them, both with and without shields.

Without shields, they're 3 points a pop, which means I can bring big, big units (30-40) for low, low points.

I'm still putting together my common goblins with shields, so this next bit is a bit theoretical, but I'm very aware that that "only 2 ppm" difference is pretty big when viewed as a multiplier or percentage: 3 goblins instead of 2 orcs! I envision using common goblins as the "front wave": smallish (25 models) units that hit the front line first; any that don't break will pin down their enemies long enough for me to get into the flanks. Any that do break will either draw the enemy out of their line (allowing my "second wave" of orc boyz to flank-charge them) or else will get a chance to rally in the backfield, and thus not give up even their miniscule points.

In THEORY, anyway...

Jonahmaul
09-01-2007, 09:59
I'm starting an O&G army soon but starting by just doing a night goblin army then hopefully by time i've finished that GW will have released plastic savage orcs & i can do my savage orc army (they will release them, i have faith that it will happen!!!). I wanted to do a more themed fantasy army hence starting with just night goblins, also the fact that you get loads with BFSP makes it a very useful purchase (although I am going to plan army first as don't know if I want that many spears & if not don't know if I can be bothered converting them).

As for common goblins, I am going to use these in my SO army (although I am going to convert them with bits from spider riders to be forest goblins as this fits in better with SO army - its based on the appendix list from last edition of O&G book) so guess that the aanswer is yes, people do still use them!

As just a fighting unit I would say that common goblins are better as they have better LD & can have light armour & shields meaning they get a 4+ save in close comabt but then they're are a point more than night goblins. The thing that makes night goblins good is the options for netters & fanatics. Against anything that is str 4 or more nets basically give you +1 save by reducing the opponents strength (as long as you don't net yourself).

However, nets costs 35 points so you can take a unit of up 35 common goblins with shields before they start becoming more expensive than a night goblin unit of the same size & they don't have the risk of reducing their own strength!! The fanatic option is an excellent one & opponents will avoid night goblin units as much as possible just because of the fear of them

Avian
09-01-2007, 13:00
Anyway, if you want to test and see how various gobbos fare against different enemies, I can suggest my Goblin Infantry Performance (http://folk.ntnu.no/~tarjeia/avian/calculations/goblin_performance.php) page

warlord hack'a
10-01-2007, 12:59
I did a short mathhammer calculation myself to show that goblins do not nessecarily suck in close combat:

30 night gobbo's with HW, shield, nets, musician and standard bearer cost the same as 21 orcs with choppa shield light armour and banner.

If the orcs charge they will kill 1.11 gobbo provided the nets of the night gobbo troopers hit the orcs. The gobbo's in return (fielded 6 wide as they are with more than the orcs anyway) kill 0.42 orc. So to round things off, the orcs get +1 CR from killing a gobbo. They both have a standard and 3 ranks but the gobbo's outnumber! So that makes it a draw. And see, the gobbo's have a musician, so they win ;-).

Okay it will still be a draw if the orcs get a musician as well (and you get one more gobbo for those points..). But my point is: gobbo's are not completely useless.

Avian, I loved your articles, but I couldn't get to the gobbo infantry Performance page..