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Corporal Chaos
07-01-2007, 15:15
I know the Space Wolves are a different mentality and orginazition but do many of the other chapters take to living as MEN and having the fun associated with it. Like games, women, drink, food etc. I think of my Marine chapter as living more on the lines of the Roman Legions. Families and what not. What do ya'll think?

THE CHIEF
07-01-2007, 15:22
in a way they are more like monks with regards to their private lives. albeit monks that kill stuff. they have no contact with their previous existences as children, and i doubt many would have more than a faint memory of their family life. they have no need for sex and as such never think of it either.

Slaaneshi Slave
07-01-2007, 15:31
Mind-scrubbed, surgically enchanced, drug fueled, power armoured, genocidal maniacs bent on the destruction of everything not Homosapien. Doesn't sound like a monk to me.

Cill
07-01-2007, 15:43
Doesnt sound like a family man either

ImhotepMagi
07-01-2007, 15:49
The vast majority of marine chapters are like monks because they spend about the half the day praying. Its like:

Wake up
Pray
Morning meal
Training
Pray
Training
Midday meal
Pray
Training
Pray
Training
Pray
Evening Meal
Pray
Equipment Maintenence
Pray
Sleep

That's not exactly it (there's a fluff bit about it somewhere I can't find at the moment) but its close.

There are non-standard chapters though that are different. Space Wolves, for example, are all about fighting, drinking, retelling legends and being manly, in a very traditional Norse kinda way.

Onisuzume
07-01-2007, 15:54
Well, I think I can call my chapter warrior-monks complete with robes. (Yes, Dark Angels)

Slaaneshi Slave
07-01-2007, 16:04
Wearing robes automatically makes somebody a monk? :o

Angelus Mortis
07-01-2007, 16:08
I think to a Marine, crushing heretics under a ceramite boot is about all the sex you could ever want. I know it would be for me. ;) :angel:

Slaaneshi Slave
07-01-2007, 16:13
Marines are sterile, and according to old fluff have hypnotherepy which makes them gain pleasure from killing instead of the normal human areas. If the only thing which makes you happy is slaughter, then its not going to be very safe to let you settle down with a wife and adopted kids, is it? :p

Brotherdraagor
07-01-2007, 16:39
I don't know, Channel Four could make a fortune filming it. Generally Space Marines are very zealous and strict monks, there's an article on the GW site with more information. Some diverge in a drunken, having a laugh kind of way (Space Wolves), others also maintain contact with family members (Salamanders), so it can change. But no matter how many people want their marines to be 'the friendly marines', the exceptions to the general cold killer rule are very, very rare.

golembane
07-01-2007, 17:12
I don't really see standard Space marines as monks. I see them more as zealots who give their all in the name of their god, and the Chaplains, masters, and librarians are the monk-types. They are the ones that lead the zealots to battle and know the words to say to encourage the followers of the order to highest greater then previously possible.

xibo
07-01-2007, 17:29
golembane's right, its the chaplains/librarians. The rest are reckless killing machines. Take CSM Fluff. Replace 'Powers of Chaos','Khorne','Nurgle','Slaanesh' and 'Tzeentch' with 'the emperor', and 'abbaddon','kharn',... with your chapter master's name and tadammm: it's perfect space marine background. ( although ahriman and his followers might fall out of the pattern )

... word bearers are space monks.

Karnesdorff
07-01-2007, 17:29
I would say that Marines are 'Warrior-Monks' in the same fashion that the Church affilated Knightly Orders were back in the Middle Ages. All brothers of the orders and aspirants lived in monastic conditions until it came time to fight when they put on armour and went out and fought the ungodly/heretics/pagans/etc.

As such, SM's tend to be emotionless killers when necessary and rather divorced from the concerns of the humans they defend.

EDIT: I wouldn't really say the Marines are by and large reckless killing machines, divorced form huminty certainly, but Marines are rarely reckless, since they know their own value to humanity and don't waste themselves on battles they know they can't win unless their unavoidable, plus the Chapters that just tear things up tend to get censures/Inquisitorial investigations pointed at them. Marines in background tend to be quite intelligent, and you've got examples of chapters like the BA, who have a reputation being rather savage on the battlefield, but who according to their background spend a lot of time when not fighting scultpting, painting, etc. so their fortress monatery contains some tremedous works of art done by Blood Angels of the past and present.

K.

Feor
07-01-2007, 23:15
I've always envisioned Space Marines being the Sci-Fi equivalent to the classic Fantasy Paladin. Benign and pious when at peace, brutal bundle of religious zeal and bloodshed when the blades are out.

Of course, there are exceptions, my Chapter leans heavily towards craftsmanship, and most chapter members could probably actually build their own suits of armour if needed. (and given the proper tools)

UnRiggable
08-01-2007, 00:38
1. I guess it's what seperates the boys from the men, only this time the boys are guard and the men are SMs.
2. Shouldn't this be in background!?

Mr_Smiley
08-01-2007, 02:05
If I remember correctly Salamanders Chapter marines have families and has very strong ties with the planet nearest to their Chapter Keep.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/rituals/1/ this is a link to what marines do on an average day.

ReDavide
08-01-2007, 03:05
I've always envisioned Space Marines being the Sci-Fi equivalent to the classic Fantasy Paladin. Benign and pious when at peace, brutal bundle of religious zeal and bloodshed when the blades are out.

Being in the Grim Darkness Of The 41st Millenium where There's Only War and all, I expect the marines don't get much chance to show their benign and pious side. :p

Feor
08-01-2007, 03:15
well, there's always the travel time between battle fields.

Morgrad
08-01-2007, 03:24
With 1,000 chapters of 1,000 marines, I don't see any reason why you couldn't design a chapter that is much like you describe - hence the brilliance of the "980 never described chapters" part of GW's space marine fluff.

Justicar_Freezer
08-01-2007, 03:29
Well I see them as brutal killing machines while upon the field of battle when it's really important however when not on the battlefield I don't believe them to be insane madmen who only wish to kill and destroy. I mean the space wolves party and enjoy themselves like the vikings of old. The blood angels are scupltors, and artists that produce some of the finest art in the imperium. The Ultramarines manage a small empire of their own.

So I disagree with this idea that space marines are insane killing machines when they are off the battlefield and that they are yes more like Warrior Monks. Just my two cents however.

AngryAngel
08-01-2007, 08:03
Well you could imagine them either way honestly. Though I think they all..fanatical crusaders..or warrior monks..enjoy their killing. To forever be hip deep in dead bodies slugging it out with the heretics and xenos of the galaxy..ya better enjoy it.

As said as well there are many un talked of chapters out there. So there could also be quite (relatively speaking) nice space marines out there even. For every variety of man I'd imagine that same variety in marine. I'd like to think of them as zealous warrior monks myself.

Corax
08-01-2007, 10:39
Yes, they are all warrior monks and they have wicked kung-fu! :rolleyes:

Kriegsherr
08-01-2007, 12:31
Well, my opinion based on fluff: NO!

Marines sacrifice their ability to live as normal men among humanity to become the ultimate fighter of the Imperium.

They sacrifice their own humanity. So their phisiological functions are maybe more similar to other bioengineered or -enhanced aliens like orks than to that of a normal human.
They loose their ability to reproduce themselves, their genitals beeing rendered useless (with maybe the exceptions of slaneesh marines ;)), and this is not only a sideeffect of the modifications. Marines SHOULD NOT be able to reproduce to make the whole recruiting process controllable. Mars provide most of the bio-materials for new chapters, and has a very tight control on it for other chapters. A Marine chapter is to dangerous to let it just grow wildly (even though some chapters seem to have found ways to slip through that control, I assume its a very dangerous thing that could mark them as heretics if the wrong inquisitor found out).

The reason why they are separated from humanity is because a) the imperial authorities wants every Space Marine under tight control through his superiors as its a living weapon and not a human beeing anymore, b) because "Weapons" like Marines normally ARE locked away (you don't let a nuclear warhead just lie around in public), c) because they need constant medical attention (various drugs and psycho-meds), and constant hypno-therapy. I suppose the bio-engineering process is not producing a very stable creature so the Marines will need medication for the rest of their lives just to prevent a breakdown (in some like in "universal soldier"), and they're living under constant, critical mental stress because of constant warfare and their hard, neverending training, so they will need 24/7 psycho-meds and brainwashing.

That said, there are some Marine chapters that live outside their monastry, like the salamanders, that live as wise men and leaders on their homeplanet, but outside of normal human society, and of course without women or families (REAL soldiers should only be loyal to his commander and know no Family bonds outside his squad or company, and his only lust should be for slaughter and the killing of his enemy if any. I think this is also a very good point as to why marines have no sexual urges anymore).

But If you want roman legions, play imperial guard. It just fits better, really.

TC27
08-01-2007, 12:48
I imagine most chapters do follow a very strict monk like lifestyle perhaps with exceptions for feasting days to honour special events ETC.

A lifestly like this of course lessens the risk of the Marines starting the ponder or think about things they shouldnt (there lies heresy ETC)

Tyron
08-01-2007, 13:17
Why would they prey when they dont see the Emperor as a God?

Karnesdorff
08-01-2007, 13:36
To show their devotion to their Primarch. SM cults, while they don't see the Emperor as a god, see him as as a figure similar to a grandfather, and their Primarch as their father. It's a lot like ancestor worship, they pray to their progenitors to show respect, gain their favour and act in a fashion their Primarch/and or The Emperor would wish them to. So when Marines pray it's very often to their Primarch.

K.

Onisuzume
08-01-2007, 14:08
To show their devotion to their Primarch. SM cults, while they don't see the Emperor as a god, see him as as a figure similar to a grandfather, and their Primarch as their father. It's a lot like ancestor worship, they pray to their progenitors to show respect, gain their favour and act in a fashion their Primarch/and or The Emperor would wish them to. So when Marines pray it's very often to their Primarch.

K.
Actually; that only goes for the 1st and 2nd founding chapters.
Though some 2nd founding chapters could see the Emperor as a god.
Later foundings can onbiously only pray to the Emperor since it's likely that they either don't know which chapters there geneseed originates from, or that it's composed of multiple chapters geneseed. They also wouldn't know the Emperor as anything else then a God, while thefirst 2 foundings, especially the first, know better.

Karnesdorff
08-01-2007, 14:27
I'm pretty sure that when SM cults are talked about they don't tend to make distinctions between the foundings. But I may be wrong.

Hm, This is one of the grey areas of the background with new(er) chapters. The question of where they get their first batch of officers from. I've always thought(and may have read somewhere) that the officers are from a chapter who carry the same parent geneseed, if that's the case I'd say the Chaplains brought in would pass on the parent chapter's ancestor worship. Though I suspect not knowing their primarch isn't too much of a barrier to primarch worship for SM's, as the Blood Ravens say 'For the Unknown Primarch!'.

K.

Kriegsherr
08-01-2007, 23:14
Well, like other things in the Imperium, the "honor the founder of the chapter" has been turned into something much more religious over the millenias. Its not like the customs and religious practices of the chapters don't change over time.

And of course, you don't need a god to make a religion. Some Atheists are amongst the most fanatical people I have seen so far... but alas, that goes way OT, and I don't want to be burned by the mob ;)

UnRiggable
09-01-2007, 02:46
If I remember correctly Salamanders Chapter marines have families and has very strong ties with the planet nearest to their Chapter Keep.
http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/rituals/1/ this is a link to what marines do on an average day.

The only flaw with that is that Earth is the only planet with 24 hours a day.

Sgt Biffo
09-01-2007, 03:02
. Some Atheists are amongst the most fanatical people I have seen so far... but alas, that goes way OT, and I don't want to be burned by the mob ;)

Amen... err... rather, I agree with that whole heartedly.

Any way back to the topic:

Warrior monks is an unusual way of looking at the Space marines as a whole.

The Mongol empire was far from monastic, yet the White Scars are based on them. The Dark Angels are definately in the habit (ha, ha... ahem) of acting and dressing like monks. The Sons of Spatha are based on the Spartans, whos legendary pre-occupation with homosexuality sits awkwardly along side a monastic life.

The Samurai of Japan have many edicts which could be interpited into Space Marine codes, however the Samurai found the warrior class called Sohei to be deranged fanatics... go figure!:wtf:

Mr_Smiley
09-01-2007, 03:10
The only flaw with that is that Earth is the only planet with 24 hours a day.

Just because they have less/more than 24 hours doesn't mean they don't live by that time.

Slaaneshi Slave
09-01-2007, 06:38
The only flaw with that is that Earth is the only planet with 24 hours a day.

Who says an hour has to be 60 minutes long? :p

AngryAngel
09-01-2007, 08:55
Well despite viewing them as warrior monks may be unusual, doesn't mean people won't, or shouldn't view them as such. The fluff has changed, as has been mentioned from time of inception to today even. Who is to say it won't humanize marines more over time ?

I think really they've just laced in marines the diffrent ideals and actions of many diffrent types of people. From monks, to knights, to samurais and so on. Just to try and build a large range of appeal.

The guard as well follow this if ya look for it.

spamcetera
09-01-2007, 10:32
IIRC, there was a picture in Rouge Trader showing a space marine in a bar with a wench on his lap. Of course if you look at how some monks REALLY behaved in the middle ages, space marines can do anything they want.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
09-01-2007, 12:16
Space wolves don't seem to behave very monastically to me! but they could just be really cool viking monks.;)

Onisuzume
09-01-2007, 14:37
Conclusion; most Space Marine chapters are fairly warrior-monk-like, some aren't. (Space Puppies for example)

Kriegsherr
09-01-2007, 16:35
Well, yes to everything said with the exception of Marines beeing able to have families. I never have seen any references to that.

And I think I read some stuff that mentioned that Marines are no longer able to have sex, or have non-working genitals. Which makes sense.
And I assume their Kids would be very strongly and grossly mutated due to their modified gene-seeds, so its not very likely tolerated that they start having families by the imperial authorities.

guillimansknight
09-01-2007, 16:51
Well, yes to everything said with the exception of Marines beeing able to have families. I never have seen any references to that.

And I think I read some stuff that mentioned that Marines are no longer able to have sex, or have non-working genitals. Which makes sense.
And I assume their Kids would be very strongly and grossly mutated due to their modified gene-seeds, so its not very likely tolerated that they start having families by the imperial authorities.

errmmm a marines ....bits work they just dont use them..that much (some do)

warrior monks .......... no
marines are fanatics, they like a lot of people(no religion people mainly) can get an idea in their head and make their whole life driven to it

Feor
09-01-2007, 17:03
The bolter works, but the shells are duds.... if you get the meaning.

And Marines are slightly more fanatical than "alot of people" mainly because they go through hypnotic induction and heavy brainwashing to believe in what they're doing, as opposed to just being told over and over that it's the right thing.

Kriegsherr
09-01-2007, 18:57
The bolter works, but the shells are duds.... if you get the meaning.

And Marines are slightly more fanatical than "alot of people" mainly because they go through hypnotic induction and heavy brainwashing to believe in what they're doing, as opposed to just being told over and over that it's the right thing.

Well, some say the whole bolter is useless after the apothecaries are finished with the "newborn" Miles Astartes (I shall stop using the term Space Marines from this day on because of its stupidness ;))... but this are details, fact is, Marines don't do the family routine.

Other than that, wholehearttly agreed... Marines are brainwashed and drugged, and are Living Fighting Machines. They are not anymore really capable to live among normal human beings (with some very rare exceptions maybe).

Onisuzume
09-01-2007, 21:01
Other than that, wholehearttly agreed... Marines are brainwashed and drugged, and are Living Fighting Machines. They are not anymore really capable to live among normal human beings (with some very rare exceptions maybe).
Space Wolves in a bar for example? (just don't get in a barfight with them...)

Feor
09-01-2007, 23:03
Oh, they can live among normal humans if needed. The people around them would think them somewhat odd, but they wouldn't be dangerous or anything.

AngryAngel
10-01-2007, 06:24
Just imagine if a veteran marine retired..how they would they tell someone to get off their lawn ?

Mr_Smiley
10-01-2007, 07:24
Just imagine if a veteran marine retired..how they would they tell someone to get off their lawn ?

I can see that now.
Arbiter: Did you kill that man?
Retired Marine: Perhaps.
Arbiter: Why?
Retired Marine: He knocked over my garden gnome.
Arbiter: And that gives you a right to kill him?
Retired Marine: Don't make me angry, you don't want to see me when I'm angry.

guillimansknight
10-01-2007, 15:42
I can see that now.
Arbiter: Did you kill that man?
Retired Marine: Perhaps.
Arbiter: Why?
Retired Marine: He knocked over my garden gnome.
Arbiter: And that gives you a right to kill him?
Retired Marine: Don't make me angry, you don't want to see me when I'm angry.

lol

this reminds me of some fluff i made where marines get to "retire" by staying on the homeworld and training SoB's .........................though they may have been doing more than training ........................

AngryAngel
11-01-2007, 05:30
lol lol...Hey if that guy knocked over his garden gnome thats his tough luck. I mean ya don't touch an old mans yard decorations.

Nazguire
11-01-2007, 06:51
In the Horus Heresy books, the Marines are certainly human, but have those inhumane elements about them. Loken is a good example, or Torgaddon or Abaddon even. Each one have very human traits and are certainly not warrior monks; they are just devoted to their cause.

Of course that was set during a different time period. 40k Marines would be as different as the colours on the rainbow. On the one hand we have the warrior monks (Dark Angels), the cold, ruthless machine-like Marine (Iron Hands) wild and rowdy (sometimes wet and wild Space Wolves) and the spartan Ultramarines.

Depends on the time, the Chapter and the planet really.

Corporal Chaos
12-01-2007, 05:46
Thaniks for the input gang. I guess that that the extremely intense training and mental conditioning would make the frivalities of life kinda meaningless. I still do not see them as "Monks" but very dedicated warriors. Knightly. I guess that is why Space Wolves appeal to me. Viking, beer, wenches. Training.