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daemonprince andrew
07-01-2007, 21:30
yo what army which of these armies would be good for a noob as i am stuck on deciding as its either vampire counts high elves or wood elves {i play eldar / chaos space marines 40k} im lokkking for a tactically challenging army with decent background any help in this decision would be great

superknijn
07-01-2007, 21:42
Both High Elves and Vampire Counts are getting a new army book, both probably this year, so ideally you should wait a bit. ;)

vampires are cool!
07-01-2007, 22:00
Personaly, I'd say HE as they are arnt vampire counts - VC are not a noob army. Cant speak for the HE though; not a HE player, but VC's are not kind to the uneducated player.

paspinall
07-01-2007, 22:04
LOL< Just read that last post, I found it rather the opposite, the first game of Warhammer I ever played was using a VC army, and I thrashed my opponent, I think it all depends on peoples playing styles, but as has been mentioned both are getting new books so it might be worth waiting.

Move Fast Hit Low
07-01-2007, 22:05
HE is not considered a noob army either, it has a steep learning curve for most new players, i think you should start with WE

Weregerbil
07-01-2007, 22:42
Brets are a noob army or BD VC.

gorenut
08-01-2007, 00:02
I'd say wait for both armies to get re-released and go according to which army has models you prefer. You're gonna have to learn the game system eventually and shouldn't squander your hard-earned money on the "easier" army to play with.

That said.. I think VC tends to be more forgiving as long as you don't get your characters killed. You can reinforce your squads and don't have to worry about psychology. Everything will pretty much do what you want (except maybe kill something).

NaT
08-01-2007, 00:06
There is still a good 6+ month wait for either of the army books.

Maybe you should look at ogers, bretts, WE or lizardmen. As those 4 armies have solid new books.

Hywel
08-01-2007, 00:50
Personally I'd say Vampire Counts are an ideal beginners army. They were my first back in the good old days of one undead army...*daydreams*

Anyway, once you've learned the somewhat odd undead rules for CR etc it's very easy getting used to the game with an army that doesn't refuse to charge things, run away when the going gets tough or start migrating through panic. Also gets you very used to the idea that troops are there for static CR and characters do the killy bit, which is a key realisation in fantasy.

On the other hand I think elves require a great deal of skill as their numbers are small and their fragility high. Maneouver is essential in an elven army and possibly one of the most difficult aspects of the game to come to grips with at first.

Anyway, whichever army you choose you will love it and adapt to using it effectively. Just might take a bit longer with some armies than others. Most important thing is pick models you like the look of and a character that suits you.

alpha_dude
08-01-2007, 03:26
always worth considering are what background material and models you like

lokigod
08-01-2007, 05:14
hmm I play wood elves and they have a very balanced book. They are all about the movement phase though....but i would recomend them too any one.
I also played beast of chaos, mortal chaos, and O&G. I would have to say out of the armys I have played the wood elves have the best models and are the most fun too play.

Makarion
08-01-2007, 07:14
There is still a good 6+ month wait for either of the army books.

Maybe you should look at ogers, bretts, WE or lizardmen. As those 4 armies have solid new books.

With the note that even with a new book, the Ogres are still by and large the weakest Warhammer army in existence. And that includes Dogs of War and Skaven.

Highborn
08-01-2007, 07:21
I would take the Vampire Counts. Even if there is a new book coming out, doesn't mean he has to buy a new army when it does (although the new model range might tempt).

Vampire Counts are a lot more forgiving. Elves are more expensive per model than VC are, and with T3 and low armour you feel every hit. VC can raise troops, which is very useful. VC are also better at taking charges - same toughness, sure, but elves rely on their (now dead) troops, while VC can have their characters fight on and raise more troops in the next Magic phase.

More importantly, elves pay for that extra 1" of movement. That means factored into the points is the ability to outcharge almost any other infantry unit out there - very painful when you're new and struggling to tell the difference between 8" and 10". That's probably the hardest lesson I've learnt with Wood Elves ... those 2" are crucial. That, and Wild Riders make things easy ;)

The Senate
08-01-2007, 13:13
ha! you just want someone to say which is best! well vampire are a dreary army but new book can fix that of course. high elves are ok but stunning to look at depending on your painting skills or rather patience. wood elves could beat either of them very easily and look very nice too.

oh and no calling skaven weak please whoever said that.

Onisuzume
08-01-2007, 14:34
Or you could look for Ravening Hordes and start a Chaos Dwarf army. (It's beardy, I know(pun intended))
As for the HE, they can be rather fragile, and usually requires units working together.
VCs on the other hand have fairly bad troops if it wasn't for their truckload of special rules, though their characters are ace. (they can be more or less the daemon princes from 40k)

HE armies tend to be fast, VC armies tend to be slower.

Arhalien
08-01-2007, 16:28
With the note that even with a new book, the Ogres are still by and large the weakest Warhammer army in existence. And that includes Dogs of War and Skaven.

I;ve been hearing this a lot on these forums, and I was wondering what it is that makes ogres weak?

I wouldn't recommend high elves as a starter army, at least not iuntil the new books is out, they are very weak unless you play an unfluffly, cavalry, magic heavy army. Their infantry is overpriced and overly fragile,

daemonprince andrew
10-01-2007, 15:14
ok cheers guys.i have dropped Vampir counts as the models dont appeal to me. i have a regular opponent {brother} who collects dark elves. would it be fluffy to have a wood elve army to play these with or would high elves be better for this as i love both armies models

zak
10-01-2007, 16:22
I would recommend WE at present until GW bring out the new book. The HE models are nice, but currently uncompetitive. The HE are the greatest foe of the DE, but don't let that stop you getting WE.

As for the poster who hinted that Skaven are one of the weakest armies. Are you mad?

FatOlaf
10-01-2007, 17:50
Def go VC, WE and HE (WE especially!) are for the experienced gamer.
VC is cheap to assemble, easy to paint and fun to play.
For some more dedicated advice follow the link on my Sig.

daemonprince andrew
10-01-2007, 20:11
Well in two weeks time i will be going to a fantasy beginner day. As I have to learn the rules before i make my final decision. Is there any other armies which are good for a beginner.

Makarion
10-01-2007, 20:53
As to the skaven being a weak army (I was said poster):

My experience is fairly limited, but I have always seen them outshot, then crumble in close combat. It could well be that a magic-heavy skaven army, or one with a heavy focus on shooting, works better. The skaven player wasn't very experienced, so that can't have helped.

Makarion
10-01-2007, 20:58
I;ve been hearing this a lot on these forums, and I was wondering what it is that makes ogres weak?



Lack of armour and little defence against war machines, shooting or magic. In short, their only choice is to march up and hope they don't die halfway across the table to a barrage.

Lieutenant Frederic Henry
11-01-2007, 02:20
I started Warhammer with Empire (and have played them ever since). They're a solid army for a beginner. Decent everything, good selection of troops/army styles allows you to experiment. Very good special rules in the form of detatchments. Solid heavy infantry in Greatswords, fearless infantry in Flagellants. Good Knights, good artillery, good missile infantry. I could go on, but I don't really feel the need to. The model range is good, the 'human feel' to the army is universally appealing to Warhammer players (who, like it or not, are all humans), and anyways... everybody likes big guns!
More shameless plugging for the good of the Reik.
Cheers.

Highborn
11-01-2007, 02:49
ok cheers guys.i have dropped Vampir counts as the models dont appeal to me. i have a regular opponent {brother} who collects dark elves. would it be fluffy to have a wood elve army to play these with or would high elves be better for this as i love both armies models

High Elves.

Wood Elves have never had a major encounter with the Dark Elves throughout their history, as the druchii would have to march across Bretonnia to reach them. Wood Elves wouldn't go out to the sea either.

Dark Elves are hardly a top-tier army either, and they suffer from T3 almost as much as the High Elves do. It's a good matchup.

High Elves are due for an update, which should remove some of the problems with the list.


See what armies you like the look of. As far as I'm concerned, there are no armies that are 'good for beginners' because if you don't like the look, you won't like playing them. There are definitely armies which are 'bad for beginners' because they're hard to play - all three flavours of elf fall into this category.

snurl
11-01-2007, 05:20
If you wanted a tactical challenge, the High elves are the way to go.

philthulhu
11-01-2007, 05:42
I've always found VC to be fairly forgiving.
But since you're back to choosing either breed of pointy-eared gits, then for now, Woodies might be the way to go. There's at least some flexibility in them.

But then, who'd take my advice? I have a damned Nurgle Cavalry army, and plans for a Common Goblin horde :P

daemonprince andrew
12-01-2007, 18:31
does anyone know when high elfs are getting a new book. if its in the next six months then ill wait for them. if longer then ill start a small wood elf army. i could always use two 500 point armies against my brother 1000 dark elfs be intresting.

ghost21
12-01-2007, 18:48
With the note that even with a new book, the Ogres are still by and large the weakest Warhammer army in existence. And that includes Dogs of War and Skaven.

think you'll find this is chaos dwarfs

daemonprince andrew
20-01-2007, 02:53
cheers guys after playing a small battle using my brothers dark elves..i found that although they are hard to learn i feel like they have that dark feel to th which is exactly what i want. a load of local players have tried to get me to go empire