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nurglich
13-07-2005, 15:03
So under new wood elf rules/list what would be a good tatica for this new/old army?

bored1
14-07-2005, 13:20
I'd highly recommend questioning any "tactics" that are posted for at least a couple weeks after release.

Some stuff you can tell just by looking at the list, like combos:

-bow of loren/arcane bodkins
-helm of the hunt/ward save or murder of spites
-treeman ancient/annoyance of netlings
-hunter's talon/pageant of shrikes

But as far as how the whole army works cohesively...actual games are what gets it done.

Akuma
14-07-2005, 15:18
There was a We Tactica Thread in wchith i gave extensive desciptions to all units and so on - thank Bored1 Riddy and Zeb for making it Disapeer :D

nurglich
16-07-2005, 00:19
There was a We Tactica Thread in wchith i gave extensive desciptions to all units and so on - thank Bored1 Riddy and Zeb for making it Disapeer :D
Grrrrrrrr :mad: Is no-one kind enough to post a review of the list again (i'm looking at you Akuma :D )

fubukii
16-07-2005, 07:39
eternal guard rock

Math Mathonwy
16-07-2005, 12:15
eternal guard rock
Just a friendly suggestion, but could you say something more in your posts? It seems that most of your posts are one sentence and that really doesn't add anything to the conversation and isn't useful for anyone. For example here, you could outline why you think so, how you have used them, also mention their weaknesses and how you have overcome them. Also possible ideas for characters/magical banners to add to the unit in order to get the best out of it. Or even just a funny anecdote where your eternal guard kill a bloodthirster in one round and run after it for two whole inches or whatever.

But anyway, take care :)

Galadrin
16-07-2005, 13:49
Try not to take charges much. Try to work your tactics around doing as much damage on the charge/first turn of combat because a number of things will ruin you in any subsequent turn of combat (low numbers for combat resolution, low toughness, low armour saves, low basic strength etc). No unit should ever work alone, no unit should ever charge in alone and do not stretch your attention over the entire opponent army, but focus on one weak point at a time.

This kind of stuff is true for almost every army.

What's somewhat unique to the Wood Elves is that we seem to have Trapper units and Hunter units. Hunters are only thrown in when they can easily tip the balance, and must be used with precision, finesse and support because otherwise they'll be crushed. Examples: Wardancers, Wild Riders, the Treeman (yes, with such mediocre leadership he will get crushed when used improperly), Fighty Characters.

The other unit type, the Trapper, is supposed to delay, misdirect and "stick" the enemy in bad positions that your hunters exploit with well placed and timed charges. These include Treekin, Eternal Guard, Dryads, Scouts, Warhawks and Great Eagles. Treekin, Eternal Guard and Dryads can absorb enough damage to hold an enemy in combat while the hunters come in and smash the flanks or rear. Scouts, Warhawks and Great Eagles can march block and redirect charges, threaten weak spots to delay enemies and do other similar things, allowing your hunters to take advantage of the enemy's disarray.

Then there are all the rest, mostly support units, like non-fighty characters (for magic or leadership support) and archers (which need no explaination really).

Hannibal
16-07-2005, 13:51
Well, beeing a HE player have to say that some things look pretty sweet in the new codex. One thing I would say is a nice idea is an all mounted force with glade riders, warhawk riders, great eagles. Maxining out on shooting and magic will give you a nice harassment army which is able to deny VPs and to fight the battle where you want to have it. These riders with their ward save and fear causing on the charge in addition with a tooled up character and that banner that nullifies one die for your opponent if he rolls for fleeing distance could be a nice "semi breaker". Such a list mostly depends on its speed, but could be a well working one.

The eternal guard looks sweet compared to my spearelves, but they have the disadvantages of any infantry unit in the game.

Beeing a beastmen player, too, I canīt understand all that overrating of dryads. Compared to my standart beast herdes, these guys donīt seem to be that great. They wonīt have any combat resolution bonus before melee begins and therefore would have a hard time fighting against any rank and file unit.

IMO we have to wait aat least half a year before their is any solid and valid rating of the WE.

Hannibal

Galadrin
16-07-2005, 14:02
I'd highly recommend questioning any "tactics" that are posted for at least a couple weeks after release.

Some stuff you can tell just by looking at the list, like combos:

-bow of loren/arcane bodkins
-helm of the hunt/ward save or murder of spites
-treeman ancient/annoyance of netlings
-hunter's talon/pageant of shrikes

But as far as how the whole army works cohesively...actual games are what gets it done.


Btw, not to be semantical, but those are all strategies, not tactics. Anything that has little to nothing to do with the actual situation on the tabletop and the current condition and composition of your enemy falls by default as a strategy (like a combo, that does not depend overtly on your opponent).

Tactics are more stuff like.. if the enemy comes at you from the front, let him go by and drive his army in half. Well, see my previous post up above for tactics : P

On an unrelated note, isn't Math Mathonwy a welsh god of magic?

fubukii
17-07-2005, 02:37
ok to elaborate on my views of eternal guard, they are a core choice If you have a highborn. Secondly they are the same thing as high elf spearmen but wpn skill 5. They have the bodyguard rule which makes them stubborn is joined by a hero/highborn. Also being able to take a 50 pt magic banner is nice (only 1 unit per army). They will do great vs low Armor units in combat (10-15 str 3 atks at wpn skill 5).

The main strength of the unit is when you combine their combat skills with a unit of dryads, treekin or a treeman. Thats where the big hurtin comes from.

malisteen
17-07-2005, 13:13
dryads aren't really trapper units. They don't have ranks, or standard, they aren't unbreakable or stubborn, so they will break and run if beaten in combat, and they will be beaten in combat if they are charged by anything reasonably tough. They do not have aspects anymore, so they have no special abilities to help them take a charge. They're immune to psychology, so they cannot flee, and as skirmishers they realign to units which charge them, rather then the other way around, so they aren't really good at setting up charges other ways either.

What they are is a very maneuverable unit that can avoid charge arcs until it pleases them to enter combat and unleash several S4 attacks. Since they're T4 with a 5+ ward they're slightly more resiliant then wardancers, which increases when you consider that wardancers cost so much more. So basically they're fear causing wardancers who trade some punch for some resiliance (but not enough to be a stick unit), and in the process become cheaper and core. They're still definitally a 'hunter' unit, in fact they're our main unter unit in the core category.

Galadrin
17-07-2005, 17:11
Well no, they just aren't very ideal at trapping. They are (relativley) cheap and flexible with good toughness and saves, which allows them to take damage a little better than, say, a Wardancer. Their Fear can keep them in combat past the first turn if the enemy fails the leadership (requiring then 6's to hit), or even if you are just bringing in another charge this turn, the dryads can be used to orient the enemy a little bit to cause panics for flank and rear charges (unless I am reading the rule incorrectly). They are arguably enough of a "stick" unit to be called that, but they certainly aren't the best option for it. Maybe enough so that they can be used well in either role?

malisteen
18-07-2005, 03:34
I wouldn't try it. They will break. They will. The best they can hope for is that their enemy fails a fear test and doesn't charge them at all. Use them as a hunter unit, as cheaper core wardancers. They'll do you well. But try to trap with them and they'll break in no time flat.

Good trap units: eternal guard (for taking charges), glade riders (for setting up the enemy by fleeing or taking & realigning a charge), great eagles (see glade riders).

Ok trap units: treekin (very tough, but still vulnerable to combat res), treeman (stubborn, but low leadership), warhawks (more expensive glade riders, better at march blocking but worse at taking charges), scouts.

bad trap units: waywatchers (too expensive), everything else.


Dryads definitally fall into the hunter category, along with dancers, wild riders, lone/monster mounted fighty characters, and to a lesser extent treekin and treeman. You'll find the damage output of a unit of dryads to be quite sufficient against most targets, their added resiliance is mostly just to insure that more of them actually reach combat to do their damage.

Falcon
18-07-2005, 11:45
I played a 2K battle over the week end against bretts. A unit of 6 KOTR went right through the Dryads. Broke them on charge and ran them down (Right next the the general as well). Do not rely on them to hold a charge.

By the way, an Alter Noble or Highborn makes a great hunter as well!

Maese Crochets
18-07-2005, 21:46
I played a week ago a 1.5k battle against Skavens (my enemy wasn't a very good player though) and I won by far (how do you guys call it: deadpool/ massacre/carnage?? Sorry for being Spanish XD).
I used 15 Eternal Guards alongside an Eternal Noble with the sprite which causes terror. The unit was decreased to 12 people with shooting IIRC, but it stood against two 25 Skavens charges (my opponent had an amazing luck with his Terror tests) and made both flee. Also, 6 Dryads defeated a big unit of skavens and captured its standard. On the other hand, one single warp ray (from the cannon) killed my spellsinger and my branchwraith (my two only spell casters). Wild riders were destroyed by jezzails and 6 wardancers couldn't fight the huge skaven units.
To sum up: eternal guard works well against light infantry. Heavy infantry would have needed a lord with them.

Riddy
19-07-2005, 14:49
There was a We Tactica Thread in wchith i gave extensive desciptions to all units and so on - thank Bored1 Riddy and Zeb for making it Disapeer :D

Simply saying "You must have X and Y in your army, they are teh wIn, but you cant have Z in your army, they are teh su><0rz" doesn't qualify as an 'extensive description' :p :p

anyway, is this the thread you wish to have as the wood elf tactica, or would you like a thread more aptly named? (Wood elf tactica perhaps, or 'The glades of Loren' would make a change from the normal Tactica-X army)

wanderingblade
19-07-2005, 20:04
Akuma, if you have problems with members of these forums, sort it out on PM or get a mod to sort it for you. Don't just have a pop at them in every post and try to annoy them, or you'll end up annoying a mod instead.

The... hmm. Drat. Progress has somewhat undermined me...

bored1
19-07-2005, 22:25
Btw, not to be semantical, but those are all strategies, not tactics.

How are they strategies? Unless you want to consider equipping your troops as part of the grand general strategy of your army as a whole. They were simply equipment combos.

Again, let me reiterate. It's not that I have anything against tactics thread. In fact, I think they're great. But how about going out and playing some games? Anyone can tell you how to play, but it won't help you. Go proxy 10 games with them (I've yet to find the club that really cares). Try out some units. We can all do the same. Then return for some meaningful discussion that actually gets us somewhere, instead of meaningless generalizations that really don't get granular to be able to be applied to a range of scenarios.

Maese Crochets
19-07-2005, 23:50
anyway, is this the thread you wish to have as the wood elf tactica, or would you like a thread more aptly named? (Wood elf tactica perhaps, or 'The glades of Loren' would make a change from the normal Tactica-X army)

IMO it would be better if we choose a suitable name for an all-new WE tactic (or strategy...) thread. Why not sth related to the new kindreds, or the new WE personality?