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redbaron998
08-01-2007, 03:09
For an Autach to have gear from a aspect we assume they traveled that path for some time. And the Banshee Aspect is all female right? So why is a Male Autarch commonly shown wearing a banshee helm?

laucian_meliamne
08-01-2007, 03:13
No, the Banshees are not all-female. They are predominantly female, but there are male Banshees. Or so the second-edition fluff indicates.

Prince Facestab
08-01-2007, 03:15
As I recall, the banshee aspect is not actually all female, nor are any of the other aspects exclusively male. Just that a very large percentage of howling banshees are female.

Alas, I cannot find where this is written. Just a reference on page 10 of the eldar codex saying that eldar warriors can come from either sex, since Phoenix Lords trained them equally.

devolutionary
08-01-2007, 03:22
Indeed. There are even no boundaries on the various Phoenix Lords and their gender, though obviously an originally male Jain Zarr would be... interesting :p

insaniak
08-01-2007, 03:23
Alas, I cannot find where this is written.

Howling Banshee entry in the 2nd edition Codex: Eldar and Codex: Imperialis

redbaron998
08-01-2007, 03:33
Oh their not? Thats cool, I at first thought they were mixed gender like everything else but someone told me they were all female. ok thanks

Hellebore
08-01-2007, 04:10
Howling Banshee entry in the 2nd edition Codex: Eldar and Codex: Imperialis

It's also mentioned in the howling banshee entry in the 4th ed codex.

Hellebore

insaniak
08-01-2007, 04:38
It's also mentioned in the howling banshee entry in the 4th ed codex.

Not in mine...

Hellebore
08-01-2007, 04:47
Not in mine...

Now you've gone and done it. You've caught me out!

You KNOW this will drive me crazy right? Because I read the specific point about them not all being female AFTER the 4th ed codex came out and though "Finally. That stupid argument can be put to rest with modern fluff, and with no need to use the 2nd edition codex."

Gosh darn it! Where did I read it then?

Hellebore

Khaine's Messenger
08-01-2007, 05:05
Well, p10 of the 4e 'dex says that both male and female Eldar can walk the Path of the Warrior since the Phoenix Lords did not discriminate, but it doesn't single out any Aspects.

insaniak
08-01-2007, 10:34
That, and I quoted the 2nd Edition bit in a thread a short while back that was discussing the possibility of female Striking Scorpions...

BloodiedSword
08-01-2007, 13:27
There was definitely something about that being possible in the 3rd ed codex somewhere.

Something about "when an Aspect warrior dons his or her armour, he becomes the embodiment of that Aspect, and his or her civilian life is completely discarded. Thus a male Eldar could take on the form of a female Howling Banshee [etc]".

EVIL INC
08-01-2007, 16:31
True, the banshee aspect is predominately female but allows males in. It is the mindset and abilities of the aspirant that matter rather then the plumbing. females just have the ability and mindset more then males do. Remember, the eldar are not nearly as prejudiced as the imperials.
They are modeled as all female because it looks nice and because we more commanly associate banshees as being female in our mythology.

Zerosoul
08-01-2007, 16:57
I know I've posted this before, but it's a very interesting topic to me, so...

Eldar are a ritualized society. Even in human societies that also have strictly defined ritual roles, there is no shame in a male taking on a "female" ritual role(though, interestingly, the reverse doesn't always hold true) - for example, in several shamanic societies(among Native Americans, for example), males who take on the "female" role of shaman and live as women(including, for example, taking a husband) are highly respected for their insight into spiritual matters. It's really only Western society with its strictly defined gender roles that gets worked up about things like this.

Even if Eldar had strict gender roles - which I see no evidence of - the Banshee is a ritual aspect, and doesn't discriminate between genders. The Banshee itself is female, but a male can take up a female ritual role with no hint of shame.

Hobgoblyn
08-01-2007, 17:16
The funny thing about the Aspect Warriors being mixed gender is that they have NEVER been modeled as mixed gender.

If you want to make a point about them being mixed gender then if you create 4-5 models to represent that group then at least one of them should be a different gender than the others...

But this isn't true with any of them. So it certainly gives the impression that they are gender segregated. Especially when you have aspect warriors with very similar roles such as in the Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions.

Of course, back in 2nd edition there was the impression also that there were only 7 types of aspect warriors in the entire galaxy. Now there is story suggesting there are more than these, but nothing else to really back it up except for maybe a couple names dropped here or there.

Iracundus
08-01-2007, 17:39
There have always been references to more Aspects than the big name common ones. The notable Slicing Orbs of Zandros is a 2nd ed. reference that's been recycled for this edition. Originally even the Warp Spiders and Shining Spears weren't present when the idea of Aspect Warriors was first introduced by GW. They were a new addition in 2nd edition, hence also their notable absence in the old Epic games which preceded 2nd edition's Eldar Codex.

The rarer Aspects just aren't suitable for general tabletop use as they are going to be more specific to certain Craftworlds and more limited in numbers. Of course there's nothing stopping people from making their own Aspects and using them with opponent permission in scenarios.

Farseer Silvanus
09-01-2007, 00:09
Does anyone remember the old Guardians that were female. I loved them. The Harleries have both men and women models. I wished they would make more female models myself. Could you imagine a entire eldar army that had only female models. The Avatar as a female model,Scorpions,Fire dragrons and other models A female Farseer would be sweet too.

Brother_Falco
09-01-2007, 05:01
"In battle, what these fierce warrior women lack in brute strength they make up for in precision and efficiency."
~ Page 31, C:Eldar (4th Ed)
Take it as you will.

viokni
09-01-2007, 05:29
I think we get a thread with this question atleast once a week. We should sticky a thread called "Banshees can be male to"

prince_dios
09-01-2007, 05:52
The breasts on the banshee armor may well be there to stress the feminine nature of the aspect. Most Eldar are probably not all that well endowed, after all.

And the guardians wear form-fitting armor, but the Avengers, Reapers, Scorpions, Warp spiders seem to have heavier armor on. And despite what Boris Vallejo may think, breasts will yield before armor does. It's probably impossible to tell the gender of a warp spider.

Scythe
09-01-2007, 11:15
Now you've gone and done it. You've caught me out!

You KNOW this will drive me crazy right? Because I read the specific point about them not all being female AFTER the 4th ed codex came out and though "Finally. That stupid argument can be put to rest with modern fluff, and with no need to use the 2nd edition codex."

Gosh darn it! Where did I read it then?

Hellebore

Well, there is the quote of an Autarch on page 29 (Anthrillien Morningchild, persumably a male?) who talkes about how it is to be a Banshee (amongst other aspects). I don't know if that was what you mean though...

luchog
09-01-2007, 19:18
The breasts on the banshee armor may well be there to stress the feminine nature of the aspect. Most Eldar are probably not all that well endowed, after all.

It does say in the codex that the Banshee aspect is based on an female Eldar mythological figure, and so the armour is modelled in a clearly female form. That would not preclude male Banshees; although they would not be recognizable as such.


And the guardians wear form-fitting armor, but the Avengers, Reapers, Scorpions, Warp spiders seem to have heavier armor on. And despite what Boris Vallejo may think, breasts will yield before armor does. It's probably impossible to tell the gender of a warp spider.
That's generally the case with armoured troops. Even modern troops from Industrialized nations, when in full combat armor (flak jackets and all) gender is generally not distinguishable, except for those with the most exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics. Even during medieval times, female warriors were rare, but not unheard of, and in armor were typically indistinguishable from their male counterparts.

Midknightwraith
09-01-2007, 19:48
Am I the only one thinking of the scene in "The Return of the King" where Aeowyn pulls off her helmet saying, "I am no man!"

If they are indistinguishable from a table top perspective what is the point of arguing about it?