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Carlos
08-01-2007, 14:40
Not sure if it will ever happen, but is there any chance the forthcoming Dark Eldar Codex could end up with a name change for the army? Its just Dark Eldar sounds as Good as Squats with regards to race names.

RampagingRavener
08-01-2007, 14:48
God, I hope not. "Codex: Kabalite" sounds really rather dire, personally. "Codex: Dark Eldar" is far simpler and more accurate. Not all Dark Eldar are part of the Kabals, after all, there are the Wyche Cults and Haemonculi Covens. But all of them are 'Dark' Eldar.

Lastie
08-01-2007, 16:24
Just as long as they don't change it to 'Codex: Chaos Eldar' I can live happily (without going on a mass-murdering rampage :evilgrin: ...).

mistformsquirrel
08-01-2007, 16:29
Codex: Goth Eldar? <,<;

How about Codex: BDSM Eldar? >.> Codex: Mildly Antisocial Space Elves?


I'm trying! <T_T>

ShadowKitana
08-01-2007, 17:15
I would rather have an actual name. What do the Dark Eldar call themselves?

Yade
08-01-2007, 18:48
They should just call them Space Drow and get it over with. Thye practially took the whole idea of them from the Forgotten Realms.

RampagingRavener
08-01-2007, 18:51
Just as long as they don't change it to 'Codex: Chaos Eldar' I can live happily (without going on a mass-murdering rampage :evilgrin: ...).

Agreed. Dark Eldar are good. Chaos Eldar will make my take my existing Dark Eldar models and use them to play Craftworld Eldar instead.


I would rather have an actual name. What do the Dark Eldar call themselves?

Personally, I imagine they just refer to themselves as "Eldar". To them, they're carrying on what the Eldar society was going at the time of the fall, so to them they're the true Eldar and the Craftworlders are the breakaway faction who deserve a seperate term.

mistformsquirrel
08-01-2007, 18:53
Naming them "Chaos Eldar" wouldn't even make sense - they aren't in league with the powers of Chaos at all - in fact if I recall they really don't LIKE Chaos; rather they just placate Slaanesh with sacrifices so they can survive.

I could be misenterpretting it but that's what I've come to understand >.>

Bregalad
08-01-2007, 21:40
Chaos Eldar are the same as Eldar, at least according to C.S. Goto novels :angel:

Space Drow would not be correct, as Drow have almost black (obsidean) skin and white hair, and originally a matriarchy and worship a spider goddess. It's like calling Tyranids Aliens, Necrons Terminators and so on.

"Dark Eldar" would call themself true Eldar, at least as one can conclude from the tiny bits of background they currently have.

Yade
08-01-2007, 21:52
Space Drow would not be correct, as Drow have almost black (obsidean) skin and white hair, and originally a matriarchy and worship a spider goddess. It's like calling Tyranids Aliens, Necrons Terminators and so on.

The Dark Eldar are a matriarchial society of pale dark elvish characters. There is 1 male leader and we can call him Can't remember that drow wizards name but he was the only male leader like azdrubal. There was a great drow warrior that fought with twin swords and we can call him Drizzt or Drazhar.

Way too many similarities, too many

they come from a secret place that none know of...

I could go on

Torturing their victimes and taking slaves...

Melchor
08-01-2007, 22:02
The Dark Eldar are a matriarchial society of pale dark elvish characters. There is 1 male leader and we can call him Can't remember that drow wizards name but he was the only male leader like azdrubal. There was a great drow warrior that fought with twin swords and we can call him Drizzt or Drazhar.

Way too many similarities, too many

they come from a secret place that none know of...

I could go on

Torturing their victimes and taking slaves...

You're right! No other fantasy race than the drow EVER came from an unknown place or captured slaves or tortured their victims. Nobody! :rolleyes:

There may have been some inspiriation... But it's far from a total rip-off.

Yade
08-01-2007, 22:03
You're right! No other fantasy race than the drow EVER came from an unknown place or captured slaves or tortured their victims. Nobody! :rolleyes:

Yep pretty much!!! :p

Melchor
08-01-2007, 22:30
You did notice my ':rolleyes:' didn't you?

It's very hard to find 'original' fantasy these days. The Drow and the Dark Eldar/Elves were probably inspired by a common fantasy 'ancestor'.

Also, I was under the impression that the Haemonculi were heavily inspired by the Cenobites from the Hellraiser series...
But I really couldn't care any less if GW 'stole' the Dark Eldar concept from someone else. They're a good concept and I like them no matter what...
*hugs his DE*

And now for something on-topic. I think the current name is a good one and that they shouldn't change it unless they come up with something a lot better...

mistformsquirrel
08-01-2007, 22:45
So you're saying you don't like Codex: Mildly Antisocial Space Elves? <;_;>

What about Codex: Spikey Fey Creatures In Black Leather - Now With Pointy Ears? >.>

Codex: Stabbity Eldar?

C'mon people, the squirrel only has so many ideas <;_;>

Scorpion
08-01-2007, 22:58
Codex: Eldar With A Spike Fetish?
Codex: "Sin Cities" Eldar? (loved that show!)

Bregalad
08-01-2007, 23:26
Drow have been the inspiration for Dark Eldar as Aliens have been for Tyranids and Terminator has been for Necrons. But Dark Eldar are still Eldar with pale skin, not obsidean skin and white hair. Same with Dark Elves in WHFB. Besides, GW is not allowed to copy or copyright Drow, Alien or Terminator name/design for legal reasons, so have to change it a bit.

I vote for Codex Fetish Eldar (or Eldar Horror Picture Show).

@Melchor: Hugging a DE, doesn't that hurt with all those spices, and would happy flogging not be more socially advised ;)

Gearux
08-01-2007, 23:43
They should just call them Space Drow and get it over with. Thye practially took the whole idea of them from the Forgotten Realms.

Are you implying that GW doesn't use entirely originial ideas??:eek: HERETIC!!!! (calls local Inquisition hot line)

@Yade: umm... if the head DE is a male then it isn't a matriarchial scociety.

VainEnd
09-01-2007, 03:32
one thing that we all need to remember is that the codices are written from and "Imperial" view point, so many of the names given to the races is derived by their "scientists" and military minds. The stories told and information relayed on said races are interpretations of alien artifacts, and information extracted from captured aliens, or gathered through diplomatic channels. so the name Dark Eldar suits the Imperium and I doubt that GW would change it at all. Too many people would be very upset by a name change, that would be like changing the name of Codex: Orcs to Codex: Green Skins to many people would be put off by it.

ShadowKitana
09-01-2007, 03:44
So I guess there is no avoiding a generic army name.

Maby Codex: Raiders of Commorragh

toxic_wisdom
09-01-2007, 04:07
Codex: Cammorragh

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
09-01-2007, 04:11
the problem with putting Commorragh in the name is that its already been stated they have "cities", inless Commorragh is the name of all their cities together ? I prefer it to "Dark eldar" anyway, anything with dark infront of it always sounded a bit cheesy IMO.

prince_dios
09-01-2007, 04:54
Perhaps they should do a non-craftworld Eldar book, as it seems GW is still dead set on releasing separate books for different colored marines...

They could start with Dark Eldar, and throw in Exodites and corsairs as well.

Achilles
09-01-2007, 12:06
Codex: Eldar Raiders.... then?

Should they then change the Dark Elf Armybook to the Nasty whiny northern Elf Army book? And Wood Elf to Tree hugging hippy Elf army book???

Dark Eldar are just Dark Eldar... leave the name alone!!

Rioghan Murchadha
09-01-2007, 12:15
one thing that we all need to remember is that the codices are written from and "Imperial" view point, so many of the names given to the races is derived by their "scientists" and military minds. The stories told and information relayed on said races are interpretations of alien artifacts, and information extracted from captured aliens, or gathered through diplomatic channels. so the name Dark Eldar suits the Imperium and I doubt that GW would change it at all. Too many people would be very upset by a name change, that would be like changing the name of Codex: Orcs to Codex: Green Skins to many people would be put off by it.

Orks should be renamed to Codex: Da Boyz

As for Dark Eldar.. They don't have a home anymore.. Ahriman broke it during the last campaign, so that's out as a book title.

RampagingRavener
09-01-2007, 12:45
As for Dark Eldar.. They don't have a home anymore.. Ahriman broke it during the last campaign, so that's out as a book title.

I've heard this several times, and no-one has ever given me anything to prove it. I've yet to ever see anything that suggests Commoragh doesn't still stand (though, some of the webway tunnels leading to it were collapsed). Hell, it's even mentioned in the newest Eldar codex!

Oh, and presumably you mean "During the EoT campaign", as the last 40k Campaign was Medusa and Arhiman wasn't even mentioned in that. Commoragh was though.

Yade
09-01-2007, 16:38
Are you implying that GW doesn't use entirely originial ideas??:eek: HERETIC!!!! (calls local Inquisition hot line)

@Yade: umm... if the head DE is a male then it isn't a matriarchial scociety.

NO, the Drow society had one male leader among a mirriad of female ones, he was the rebel. The Dark Eldar have all fmale lords and the asdrubal vect.

Wraithbored
09-01-2007, 16:41
NO, the Drow society had one male leader among a mirriad of female ones, he was the rebel. The Dark Eldar have all fmale lords and the asdrubal vect.

Where are you getting your info? Vect is male yes and I am aware of only the Wych Cults being led by females, Cabals are lead by males the only female cabalite mentioned is No'akei(sp?).Because unlike the Drow, Dark Eldar judge and value an individual based on their capabilities so you rise and fall by your own merit(or attract an assassin), while the drow are led by females because Lolth favors females to males. So that argument holds no water.

And even from a model perspective I have yet to see an official GW female Archon(or archite for that matter).


And Comorroagh was never destroyed, yes Ahriman did manage to enter the webway but he was immediately repulsed(fluffwise and in campaign terms).

As for the upcoming codex I am hoping for 3 variant lists namely: Cabal, Wych cult and Haemonculus force.

chivalrous
09-01-2007, 16:54
Cabals are lead by males the only female cabalite mentioned is No'akei(sp?). So that argument holds no water.

And even from a model perspective I have yet to see an official GW female Archon(or archite for that matter).

I've seen no restriction supporting either arguement. Archons, Archites, Dracons and Dracites can be either male or female, just as the basic troops can be either.

As for existing female Archons, how about Kruellagh the Vile. She's the Archon of the Cabal of the Flayed Heart if memory serves and she has her own (albeit terrible) model.
To be honest the only Archons that have been named and had their gender disclosed (at least in official background material) are female, they are the aforementioned Kruellagh and No'akei.

Yade
09-01-2007, 16:59
Where are you getting your info? Vect is male yes and I am aware of only the Wych Cults being led by females, Cabals are lead by males the only female cabalite mentioned is No'akei(sp?).Because unlike the Drow, Dark Eldar judge and value an individual based on their capabilities so you rise and fall by your own merit(or attract an assassin), while the drow are led by females because Lolth favors females to males. So that argument holds no water.

And even from a model perspective I have yet to see an official GW female Archon(or archite for that matter).


And Comorroagh was never destroyed, yes Ahriman did manage to enter the webway but he was immediately repulsed(fluffwise and in campaign terms).

As for the upcoming codex I am hoping for 3 variant lists namely: Cabal, Wych cult and Haemonculus force.


I would agree with you if it was not for the fact that ALL of the DE lord odels are women and Drizzt, I mean Drazhar is a total rip off. It's not a knowck on DE to say they are modelled after the Drow, and it would be a lot harder to argue against it than to sit her and jump on my arguments.

I have presented solid reasons why theya re modelled after the drow, you tell me how they are not.

gorgon
09-01-2007, 17:43
You are aware that Tolkien mentioned Dark Elves long before they found their way into lame RPGs, right? Or that the idea has been around in folklore for a long time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_elf

I'll never know why people are so quick to say GW "ripped off" some other source, because that source usually was inspired by something else. And so on.

Bregalad
09-01-2007, 18:43
NO, the Drow society had one male leader among a mirriad of female ones, he was the rebel. The Dark Eldar have all fmale lords and the asdrubal vect.

Well, I guess you think about the wizard Gromph, who has some limited power but has to answer his female superior as well. The majority of the classic Forgotten Realms Drow society clearly has a female ruling class, the clerics, and the houses are ruled by matron mothers. The pantheon is led by the Goddess Lolth. There are two smaller rebellious fractions, one led by Llolth's son Vhaeraun, who fights the matriarchy, the other the goodies led by Lolth's daughter Eilistraee (also dominated by women). There are new alternative concepts of Drow (e.g. barbaric Drow in the Eberron campaign setting), but that is another topic.
So, the classic and best known concept of Drow clearly is a matriarchy and famous for that fact.


You are aware that Tolkien mentioned Dark Elves long before they found their way into lame RPGs, right? Or that the idea has been around in folklore for a long time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_elf

I'll never know why people are so quick to say GW "ripped off" some other source, because that source usually was inspired by something else. And so on.

Tolkien mentioned Dark Elves, but this has NOTHING to do with Drow. According to Tolkien, all Elves in Middle Earth except Galadriel are Dark Elves, as they have not seen the Light of the Valar Trees themselves. I guess you agree that Legolas is not the archetype of a mean, torture happy, female dominated, black skinned Drow.

luchog
09-01-2007, 18:54
Codex: Cammorragh

Ugh, this looks like it is veering way too much toward World of Darkness.

Clanbook: Commorragh. It makes my brain hurt. (Mind you, I used to be a WoD fan.)

Wraithbored
09-01-2007, 19:08
I would agree with you if it was not for the fact that ALL of the DE lord odels are women and Drizzt, I mean Drazhar is a total rip off. It's not a knowck on DE to say they are modelled after the Drow, and it would be a lot harder to argue against it than to sit her and jump on my arguments.

I have presented solid reasons why theya re modelled after the drow, you tell me how they are not.

Jump on your arguments? Yes I am here on teh forum all day ready to pounce on an unsuspecting victim. Paranoid much?

And here is a link to a male and female dark eldar lord: http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=302038&orignav=300919&ParentID=213971&GameNav=10

I've looked through my D&D books there are similarities but blatant rip off like you suggest? No I don't think so, firstly all drow on the pix show them to have dark armour yes, but i've yet to see Wych equivalents in the drow, also the armours are different but guess what that was just an artist impression. Also the blades and spikes and hooked blades? That's just GW's way of saying eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil*wiggles fingers*!!! :rolleyes:

And how is Drazhar a rip off of Drizzt? Does he have 2 scimitars? Nope not really they do look like em I'll give you that. But as far as I recall Drizzt was a good guy, going as far as making friends, and I don't think he was much of a leader of a cabal of ruthless bodyguards.

And yes mr.Tolkien did mention Dark Elves in his writing but they are not drow.

And just because they are evil and sadistic doesn't automatically mean they are being lead by women.:D

Orbital
09-01-2007, 19:11
And just because they are evil and sadistic doesn't automatically mean they are being lead by women.:D

Just more likely :)

Bregalad
09-01-2007, 19:16
Someone said, Drow society is how a freshly divorced man would imagine a female led society to be. :)

Wraithbored
09-01-2007, 19:19
Ho boy I just opened a whole new can of worms with this one didn't I?! :D

Orbital
09-01-2007, 19:20
Not at all. 40k players are known for their good luck with women!

luchog
09-01-2007, 19:53
Tolkien mentioned Dark Elves, but this has NOTHING to do with Drow. According to Tolkien, all Elves in Middle Earth except Galadriel are Dark Elves, as they have not seen the Light of the Valar Trees themselves. I guess you agree that Legolas is not the archetype of a mean, torture happy, female dominated, black skinned Drow.

The "Dark" Elves, more appropriately the Moriquendi, is an Elven "ethnicity" who did not obey the summons to Valinor. They are part of the Avari, which also includes those who did obey the call, but did not complete the journey, and thus did not see the light of the Two Trees, Telperion and Laurelin. In contrast to the Eldar -- comprised of the Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri -- who made the journey to Valinor and (except for the Vanyar) returned. Many of the Avari, including the Moriquendi, did interact directly with the Valar, particularly since some of the Valar (the Great Ainur) did not even show up in Valinor very often, but preferred Middle Earth, most particularly Orome and Ulmo; and the Maiar (Lesser Ainur) generally remained in Middle Earth for most of the First through Third Ages, a few lingering into the Fourth. (The Istari, aka the Five Wizards, were Maiar; as were Sauron and the various demons such as the Balrog).

A large number of the Elves of Middle Earth were Noldor and Teleri who had obeyed the summons to Valinor, particularly those of Lothlorien and The Grey Havens; or were descended from them. Galadriel, of both the Noldor and Teleri, was not the only one remaining, as her husband Celeborn (Noldor) had also made the journey. Legolas although a member of the Silvan (Nandor) Elves, was a Sindarin (Grey) Elf by ancestry. The Sindarin were of the Avari, but not the Moriquendi, who had left Middle Earth, but never made it all the way to Valinor, stopping along the way at Beleriand.

And yes, I am a hopeless Tolkien geek.


Perhaps they should do a non-craftworld Eldar book, as it seems GW is still dead set on releasing separate books for different colored marines...

They could start with Dark Eldar, and throw in Exodites and corsairs as well.
The Eldar really need 4 codices to be complete. The Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Exodite Eldar, and Eldar Harlequins. Eldar "corsairs" are typically Dark Eldar; and "pirates" are typically Craftworld Eldar who have taken the Path of the Outcast. Yriel is a well-known example of the Eldar pirates.

As much as I like Harlequins, I'd really like to see an official Codex: Exodite Eldar first; but I seriously doubt GW will ever make it, since it would mean taking time and effort away from their next Codex: Different-Coloured Space Marines.

Smokedog
09-01-2007, 20:06
Codex: Mail order only Eldar

Rogue 7
09-01-2007, 21:11
You are aware that Tolkien mentioned Dark Elves long before they found their way into lame RPGs, right? Or that the idea has been around in folklore for a long time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_elf

I'll never know why people are so quick to say GW "ripped off" some other source, because that source usually was inspired by something else. And so on.

I'm fairly certain that Tolkein never made elves this evil. Orcs USED to be elves, but they were tortured and mutilated so much that you can hardly call them elves. There were certainly elves who had never seen the light of the two trees (Legolas was one) and many who still remained in Middle-Earth. They spoke a different dialect as opposed to the so-called High elves who had seen the light of the two trees. Indeed, if you read the article, you'll find that the author states that these elves are not evil, barring the one nutjob in the Silmarillion. GW certainly got the inspiration for the dark elf archetype somewhere, but it wasn't Tolkein, that's for sure.

Edit- Luchog beat me to it, and in far greater detail

Rioghan Murchadha
09-01-2007, 22:27
I've heard this several times, and no-one has ever given me anything to prove it. I've yet to ever see anything that suggests Commoragh doesn't still stand (though, some of the webway tunnels leading to it were collapsed). Hell, it's even mentioned in the newest Eldar codex!

Oh, and presumably you mean "During the EoT campaign", as the last 40k Campaign was Medusa and Arhiman wasn't even mentioned in that. Commoragh was though.

Yes, I meant EoT.. I don't really consider M5 to be an actual campaign, as there were so many ridiculous instances of cheating and abuse of the system, (which I'm sure there was with EoT as well), but also because it's less than a year old, so they haven't had time to recover, and do much with the results yet.

I'll try to dig up the relevant text and give you the references. Commoragh still exists, but apparently Ahriman severed whatever bound it in place in the webways, so it drifted off somewhere.

Of course, I'm not surprised it's mentioned in the new 'dex. GW has a way of writing stuff, then going back and totally ignoring or changing what they'd previously written. Just look at the Crimson Fists for a perfect example. The whole chapter was nearly dead, with surviving battle brothers being outnumbered by specialist marines (tech, medic, etc.). Now they're saying that when the Fortress Monastary blew up, most of the chapter was off on a crusade somewhere, so they didn't get killed.

intellectawe
09-01-2007, 23:23
Dark Eldar refer to themselves as Eldar.

floyd pinkerton
10-01-2007, 15:10
just to bring you guys back down to earth a bit, when was the last recent time a codex got it's name changed? ('cept the fishheads cos they got an empire)

don't anyone say about space elves becoming eldar, i said RECENT

Tensor
10-01-2007, 15:18
Codex: Delayed until 2045?

superknijn
10-01-2007, 15:28
Codex: Romulans ?
Really, Vulcans are somewhat like Space Elves, and their opponents are way more eviler.

The comparison ends there, though :p

The Emperor
10-01-2007, 15:36
The Eldar really need 4 codices to be complete. The Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, Exodite Eldar, and Eldar Harlequins.

I don't think Harlequins need their own Codex. They're fine as units in other Eldar armies. Though we do need four Eldar Codex's. The fourth, though, should be Chaos Eldar.


I have presented solid reasons why theya re modelled after the drow, you tell me how they are not.

I wouldn't call the painful contortions you're going through to make your arguments "solid reasons". For one, Dark Eldar aren't a matriarchal society. I don't have any clue what could've given you the idea, so I'm just going to assume you're imagining things.


I would agree with you if it was not for the fact that ALL of the DE lord odels are women

Two are women (one of which is a Special Character, Kruellagh the Vile) and two are men (one of which is also a Special Character, Asdrubael Vect). So no, not all Dark Eldar lord models are female.


and Drizzt, I mean Drazhar is a total rip off

So two swords automatically equals Drizzt? Amazing.

Acolyte of Bli'l'ab
10-01-2007, 15:42
I'd rather not see "Chaos Eldar" personally. Its a boring idea IMO, and theres too many chaos archetypes of other races.

Anyway, I agree with the comment on them having three variant forces. I'd love to field a Haemonculus force, I dig their "Hellraiser cenobyte" look.

Skyweir
10-01-2007, 15:53
It is a common misconseption that the Elves of Tolkien were all good.
Feanor was a pridefull, pitiless, cold hearted and greedy person, who bound his entire line to a hopless oath and doomed the Noldor to a bitter fate. The slaugther at Alqualondë and the burning of the ships at Losgar were among the greatest atrocities done in Middle Earth.I wouldn't call him nice, and many of his sons were likewise.
Eol and his son Maeglin were both very important in the fall of the last elven refuge of Gondolin, and without Maeglin's betrayal it might not have fallen at all.
And though Thingol of Doriath were not evil as such, he was a bastard most of the time.

And I believe that Celeborn was a grey elf, a lord at the Court of Doriath. Though he were counted among the Eldar (as part of the Teleri) he was not a High Elf and never saw the Light of the Trees.

Carlos
10-01-2007, 16:06
It is a common misconseption that the Elves of Tolkien were all good.
Feanor was a pridefull, pitiless, cold hearted and greedy person, who bound his entire line to a hopless oath and doomed the Noldor to a bitter fate. The slaugther at Alqualondë and the burning of the ships at Losgar were among the greatest atrocities done in Middle Earth.I wouldn't call him nice, and many of his sons were likewise.
Eol and his son Maeglin were both very important in the fall of the last elven refuge of Gondolin, and without Maeglin's betrayal it might not have fallen at all.
And though Thingol of Doriath were not evil as such, he was a bastard most of the time.

And I believe that Celeborn was a grey elf, a lord at the Court of Doriath. Though he were counted among the Eldar (as part of the Teleri) he was not a High Elf and never saw the Light of the Trees.

You do realise LotR was only a book. And 40K is only a Game.

Bregalad
10-01-2007, 16:25
Tolkien mentioned Dark Elves, but this has NOTHING to do with Drow. According to Tolkien, all Elves in Middle Earth except Galadriel are Dark Elves, as they have not seen the Light of the Valar Trees themselves.

Galadriel, of both the Noldor and Teleri, was not the only one remaining, as her husband Celeborn (Noldor) had also made the journey. (...)
And yes, I am a hopeless Tolkien geek.



And I believe that Celeborn was a grey elf, a lord at the Court of Doriath. Though he were counted among the Eldar (as part of the Teleri) he was not a High Elf and never saw the Light of the Trees.

While Celeborn's background story is not well developed, he clearly is a Sindarin Elf, therefore a Grey/Dark Elf and has not seen the trees. Sorry ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeborn

luchog
10-01-2007, 18:16
I don't think Harlequins need their own Codex. They're fine as units in other Eldar armies.
Agree and disagree with bits of this. Harlequins really do need a codex of their own, partly to fully explore their background and culture, and partly to flesh out a unique and idiosyncratic army. As long as they're simply an adjunct to existing Eldar codices, they'll never get that. There are units and tactics that would be interesting to explore that won't show up as long as they're just an elite squad -- Great Harlequin/Avatar of the Laughing God, Solitaire, Harlequin Jetbikes, Harlequin Wraithlord*, Mimes, and so on. The full experimental codex published in White Dwarf -- both parts -- updated and balanced for 4th edition.

I'd also like to see a few other things: the Venom reworked to be a bit closer to the DE Raider, with the option for CE or DE weaponry; the Death Jesters given a bit more variety as a Heavy support choice, bring back some of the more interesting Harlequin weaponry and wargear, in a more balanced form.

If they can put out all these Codex: Yet Another Different Space Marine Colour, there's no reason they can't flesh out something with the potential to be far more unique.

* I know the common objection to Harlequin Wraithlords. Harlies don't use soulstones, so they can't make Wraithlords from their dead. However, since Harlies are recruited from the ordinary massed of Eldar (CE, DE and EE), there's no reason that Wraithlords cannot be recruited and modified as well.


Though we do need four Eldar Codex's. The fourth, though, should be Chaos Eldar.
As much as I'd like to see an official Chaos Eldar codex, I simply do not trust GW to not completely ******** it up. And I highly doubt that they'll ever bother with it, so I'm working on it myself. About 2/3rds done with it so far.

luchog
10-01-2007, 18:26
While Celeborn's background story is not well developed, he clearly is a Sindarin Elf, therefore a Grey/Dark Elf and has not seen the trees. Sorry ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeborn
The Wikipedia page is somewhat inaccurate (imagine that). Tolkien reworked Celeborn's background multiple times, and never fully resolved his origin. Both are about equally plausible, and both have substantial flaws. It makes a bit more sense for him to have been of the Teleri rather than the Sindar; and this was the last origin version that Tolkien worked on, and very likely indicated his own preferences, even though he was never able to complete the story. The establishment of Celeborn as a definite Sindarin was the work of Christopher Tolkien, based on his father's earlier writings, in order to fit with the highly edited, and still somewhat inconsistent, selection of work published as The Silmarillion. The Silmarillion should be considered informative, but not definitive canon.

luchog
10-01-2007, 18:26
You do realise LotR was only a book. And 40K is only a Game.

And this is only a message board. Your point is, what exactly?

Rogue 7
10-01-2007, 19:32
It is a common misconseption that the Elves of Tolkien were all good.
Feanor was a pridefull, pitiless, cold hearted and greedy person, who bound his entire line to a hopless oath and doomed the Noldor to a bitter fate. The slaugther at Alqualondë and the burning of the ships at Losgar were among the greatest atrocities done in Middle Earth.I wouldn't call him nice, and many of his sons were likewise.
Eol and his son Maeglin were both very important in the fall of the last elven refuge of Gondolin, and without Maeglin's betrayal it might not have fallen at all.
And though Thingol of Doriath were not evil as such, he was a bastard most of the time.

Certainly all elves weren't saints. However, Tolkein never created the race of dark, twisted, murderous elves that are so common nowadays in fantasies, and what the Dark Eldar basically are.

Horusaurus
12-01-2007, 01:39
* I know the common objection to Harlequin Wraithlords. Harlies don't use soulstones, so they can't make Wraithlords from their dead. However, since Harlies are recruited from the ordinary massed of Eldar (CE, DE and EE), there's no reason that Wraithlords cannot be recruited and modified as well.
Don't wraithlords spend most of their time in the infinity circuit and are only awakened when absolutely necessary?


Oh, I think the name of the codex should be Codex: Pirate EldARRR.

Xisor
12-01-2007, 01:55
Codex: Dark Kin
Codex: Dark Cities
Codex: The Vermillion Twighlight Realms
Codex: Unspeakable Horrors of the Eldritch

Dark Eldar sums 'em up.

They seem to refer to themselves as Eldar, all Eldar likely do. I'd imagine they still see other Eldar as their kin, be they servants of Slaanesh, Commoraghans or of Alaitoc descent.

For the record: Dark Eldar and CWE Eldar can all be pirates and/or corsairs as, essentially, they please. In truth the Corsair Eldar could potentially merit a distinct 'sect' of the Eldar race, they're not by definition craftworlder or otherwise affilliated.

Xisor

luchog
12-01-2007, 18:47
For the record: Dark Eldar and CWE Eldar can all be pirates and/or corsairs as, essentially, they please. In truth the Corsair Eldar could potentially merit a distinct 'sect' of the Eldar race, they're not by definition craftworlder or otherwise affilliated.
Except in the fluff and some of the unit names, pirates are referred to as CE Outcasts, and corsairs are referred to as DE raiding parties. In Battlefleet Gothic, Corsairs are specifically a class of Dark Eldar escort gunships.


They seem to refer to themselves as Eldar, all Eldar likely do. I'd imagine they still see other Eldar as their kin, be they servants of Slaanesh, Commoraghans or of Alaitoc descent.

Kin to some extent, but there is still a clear and powerful animosity between the CE and DE, not sure about the EE. Part of the role of the Harlequins is the reunification of the sundered factions of the race, specifically the CE and DE.

And all Eldar, regardless of their faction, bear a strong and powerful hatred of those fallen to Chaos; particularly She Who Thirsts. That's quite clear in the fluff, the DE no less than any other.

Obsidian_Halo
19-01-2007, 19:45
You do realise LotR was only a book. And 40K is only a Game.

HERESY!!!



Codex: Mail order only Eldar

I like that but I prefer "Codex: Mail Order Space Pirates"

O_H

Rioghan Murchadha
20-01-2007, 00:02
Two are women (one of which is a Special Character, Kruellagh the Vile)

Let's go with this one. It's obvious that DE are not Drow, otherwise why would one of their special characters be ripped of from ******** 101 Dalmatians?

I mean really.. Cruella deVille.. Kruellagh the Vile... give me a break, and grab some freaking originality.

Noserenda
20-01-2007, 05:06
And theyre all based off the dark elves from norse mythology... Meh.

And in what way does a scythe armed mysterious yet evil bodygaurd resemble a nature loving twin scimitar wielding drow of badly written heroics? Im actually very interested...

As for being a matriarchy i always saw the various Eldar societies as basically meritocracies... Albeit evil merit in the case of the dark eldar :skull: