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ChrisAsmadi
08-01-2007, 16:00
For the release of Dark Angels, my local store is doing a squad challenge, in which, any troop or elite squad of any point cost goes head to head vs a squad of Deathwing Termies. Thus, I thought it'd be cool to see what ideas you guys have, since the best one we had was a squad of three fireknife crisis suits with gun drones.

So, any ideas?

SwordsofChaos
08-01-2007, 16:10
12 Genestealears with all the goodies. Scything talons, flesh hooks, scuttlers. The works.

tuebor
08-01-2007, 16:11
A big 20 girl squad of Sisters would do it. If you rapid fired and popped Divine Guidance it's not very likely that any Terminators would survive.

Zerosoul
08-01-2007, 16:11
Easy.

Harlequins * 10
Harlequin's Kiss * 8
Fusion Pistol * 2(what the heck)

Shadowseer
Harlequin's Kiss

Troupe Master
Power Weapon

That'll kill just about anything in the game.

Yorkiebar
08-01-2007, 16:15
For the release of Dark Angels, my local store is doing a squad challenge, in which, any troop or elite squad of any point cost goes head to head vs a squad of Deathwing Termies. Thus, I thought it'd be cool to see what ideas you guys have, since the best one we had was a squad of three fireknife crisis suits with gun drones.

So, any ideas?I assume they're using a full ten-man squad, but are they equipped for close combat or shooting? And how far away will the squads start from each other? In either case I'd probably go for fully kitted-out Rubric Terminators and a really nasty Aspiring Champ (Gift of Chaos, anyone?), but that's just 'cos I love the Sons.

Sounds fun but very easy for anyone with the right models :skull:.

The Song of Spears
08-01-2007, 16:21
Easy.

Harlequins * 10
Harlequin's Kiss * 8
Fusion Pistol * 2(what the heck)

Shadowseer
Harlequin's Kiss

Troupe Master
Power Weapon

That'll kill just about anything in the game.

That'll do it. I cant imagine 10 termis withstanding that, and even if they run at eachother, it's unlikely the termis will even get to shoot the harles before they assault them.

lord_blackfang
08-01-2007, 16:22
20 Rubric Terminators, Champion with Wind of Chaos.

I win.

But if you want overkill, 20 Sorcerer Terminators, each with full allotment of wargear, comes to about 4000 pts, and are likely to kill a full squad of Deathwing in one round of shooting at 24".

mistformsquirrel
08-01-2007, 16:51
Aren't the new Deathwing termies only in squads of 5? (Or did I hear wrong?)

Feor
08-01-2007, 16:52
Daemon Prince, fully Kitted out (Stature, Dread Axe, Mutation, Essense, Armour, 2nd CCW, etc.) with Mark of Tzeentch + full 20 man squad of Chosen Tzeentchien Terminator Sorcerers with Gift of Chaos and Warp Foci.

Turn half the Deathwing against their brothers then let the Prince clean them up.

OR

For something that might actually cost less than a 10 man squad of Deathwing (though I thought the rumor was that the new DA Termis were going to be 5 man squads only). 10 Wraithguard with spiritseer and Enhance.

The Keeper of Secrets
08-01-2007, 16:56
What about another deathwing squad.....only bigger!!

Spook101
08-01-2007, 17:01
Playing with IG i would expect to loose anyhow, but my heroic senior officer w/ pwr wpn and four rapid firing plasma guns may do it. may loose one or two guardsmen to the plasma, but they wont win cc anyhow.

WhatsHisName
08-01-2007, 17:04
i would just go for a deamon prince with various bits cheap and WOULD do the job. or 2 infiltrating tag team lieutenatants.or uthran on his tod or a dev squad with 4 plasma cannons the list goes on....

martin

ShadowKitana
08-01-2007, 17:13
32 kitted out Hormagaunts. Then watch them fail their first instintive behavior test.

Shield of Freedom
08-01-2007, 17:15
#1 Since when was a Daemon Prince a TROOP or ELITES choice?

#2a 10 Eldar Fire Dragons. Don't even need the Exarch or any of his special weapons....but since there is no point limit. I'll add one with a Fire Pike.

#2b 10 Eldar Rangers upgraded to Pathfinders. Hopefully I'll have a building or other 4+ cover save to deploy in. I'll have the 2+ cover save and be hitting them with AP1 weapons if I roll 5s and 6s to hit. :evilgrin:

#3 For my Imperial Guard, 10 Stormtroopers. A Veteran Sergeant with the Honorifica Imperialis, a Power weapon and plasma pistol. Two Guardsmen with Plasma Guns. Deepstrike the entire unit.

InquisitorMatticus
08-01-2007, 17:15
Are HQ's allowed? I thought it was just elites or troops. .. ?

It does depend on how the battle would be fought. If it is on open ground, then sadly a 10 man guardian squad with a starcannon would do it. Just keep moving back and shooting. If you start closer then i could see orks doing it. I just dont have much respect for terminators of any flavor.. . .

mistformsquirrel
08-01-2007, 17:18
If we're going with Elites - here's mine:

10 Grey Knights Terminators.

That's really all you'd need I'd think. They can shoot back every bit as nastily as the Deathwing (ok, sans assault cannons - but still), once they get into CC their attacks are far more effective as well (20 Str 6 Power Weapon attacks at I4? Yes please.)

But yeah... that's my pic.

The Song of Spears
08-01-2007, 17:27
20 Rubric Terminators, Champion with Wind of Chaos.

I win.

But if you want overkill, 20 Sorcerer Terminators, each with full allotment of wargear, comes to about 4000 pts, and are likely to kill a full squad of Deathwing in one round of shooting at 24".

Oh yeah! I was toying around with this idea, just to see how expensive i would make a squad.

I wonder if anyone caught that 4000 points for 1 elites choice you mentioned...

i hereby change my vote, Lord Blackfang wins :P

Shield of Freedom
08-01-2007, 17:29
i hereby change my vote, Lord Blackfang wins :P

<sigh> No HQs People, he clearly said a "squad" from the "TROOPS" or "ELITES" section......

Overlord Krycis
08-01-2007, 17:29
Shield of Freedom...what Lord Blackfang posted IS an Elites choice...

It depends on how far apart they start...but...
20 Chosen Nurgle Marines, 5 Plasma Guns or Meltaguns.

If you are in range, that could be a lot of dead Terminators...I know, because i have done this to Deathwing before. :D

But the 20 Chosen Tzeentchian Terminator Sorcerors...thats scary...especially if they all got Bolt of Change...*shivers*

Doomclaw
08-01-2007, 17:34
I would either use a tooled up platoon in chimeras, that would do.

Daleran
08-01-2007, 17:44
That is a seriously horrible idea for a game...is it to test how terrible terminators are when it comes down to it? I never field my DA army without a unit of deathwing termies, but I never expect them to do much other than eat up plasma and die. A unit of 5 terminators with 1 assault cannon vs. any troop or elite unit with no points cost? That makes no sense! How about a 5 man unit of vanilla SM terminators with 2 assault cannons? We could even make it a 10 man unit because vanilla can do that!

Chimera
08-01-2007, 18:10
As a thought...

Are the Deathwing Terminators able to take a Land Raider as a Transport? If I was a GW staff member given the brief to run that event, I'd make sure to have one on standby for use against, well, people like you lot :-)

Phyros
08-01-2007, 18:16
I agree that it's a horrible idea to do if the game store wants to showcase & sell the Terminators. The opposing squad should be equal in points, or even a bit less to slant the favor towards the Deathwing.

"Come and see how hard-up and bad-ass the Deathwing are! Bring a legal squad of ANY point size to pit against a lone Deathwing Squad...in the open with NO cover!!!"

Yeah, showing people the Deathwing as they get massacred will sell. :rolleyes:

Yorkiebar
08-01-2007, 18:37
Yeah, showing people the Deathwing as they get massacred will sell. :rolleyes:I can see it now:

"Well, that's 60 hits, 12 of them rending. I win!"
"Err... Staff re-roll?"

Seriously though, I'd hope that any club would have a few non-beardy players there to have fun with a fairly even match.

Slaaneshi Slave
08-01-2007, 18:41
Three Leman Russ Demolishers. Thats a troop choice in an Armoured Company list, I believe.

Phyros
08-01-2007, 18:42
I doubt it. Even if they do have non-beardy players, the hordes of powergamers who loathe Terminators (or Dark Angels) will show up in droves out of the woodwork.

Shrike30
08-01-2007, 18:42
A tricked out SW bodyguard (20 of 'em, terminator armor, combiplasma + lightning claw... you could argue they're an elites choice) or a DH terminators squad would probably do pretty well. They really ought to put a point cap on that, cuz the beardy solutions are out there.

Could be fun to see a bunch of Pathfinders or (the classic!) Genestealers going up against them. You know what I'd like to see the most though? An entire IG platoon. Hey, technically, they're a single force-org slot...

A shop near my brother's apartment ran a "bring in a single Troops choice of your choice." I don't think they were expecting a Mechanized, Carapaced, Sharpshooters IG unit with Hardened Fighters and Iron Discipline...

mistformsquirrel
08-01-2007, 18:45
#3 For my Imperial Guard, 10 Stormtroopers. A Veteran Sergeant with the Honorifica Imperialis, a Power weapon and plasma pistol. Two Guardsmen with Plasma Guns. Deepstrike the entire unit.

See if I were going to do it with IG <,< I'd do it with a troops choice - basically an entire platoon. Imagine a whole platoon with lascannons and plasma guns, not to mention 46 lasguns. Oh, and the command squad having another lascannon and pair of plasma guns. And a plasma pistol and power sword for the officer.

Terminator Cookout!

Weregerbil
08-01-2007, 18:50
30 Ork Slugga Boyz with 3 burnas and a Nob with stuff.

paddyalexander
08-01-2007, 18:51
A squad of 20 Skarboyz with 3 burnas & a Nob with powerclaw & big shoota.

3 Crisis suits with plasma weapons, shield drones and other goodies.

Any MEQ Devestators if heavies are allowed.

A unit of Fire Dragons.

A unit of 10 Imortals.

A unit of 10 greyknight termies, with 2 psycannons(one on the captain) & Holocaust.

A full unit of Daemonettes, Genestealers, Harliquins or anything else with a lot of attacks plus rending.

A unit of 20 chaos marines with a tooled up champion & two plasma guns.

A unit of 30 grots plus a tooled up slaver, just to see the expression on your oponents face.

A unit of 10 Wraithguard with a Warlock with enhanse.

3 Obliterators.

mightygnoblar
08-01-2007, 18:52
Id probably try to go for a similar sized squad to make the battle a bit more dramatic, something along the lines of tau stealth squads with upgrades, good matchup but not overkill

ChrisAsmadi
08-01-2007, 19:00
All I could get from the redshirt is that there would be shooting (a friend and I were discussing the viability of Crisis suits for it.) He didn't say anything about terrain or spacing, though one would assume that the spacing is atleast 13" apart for shooting to be used.

Slaaneshi Slave
08-01-2007, 19:06
I'd expect him to turn up with a LR Crusader too, so make sure you are ready to bust AV 14 before you start shooting the terminators.

Lord Humongous
08-01-2007, 19:20
Does seem a pointless contest.
There's lots and lots of ways to do it with chaos chosen; not even a challenge there. Especially when you can take 40 chosen ACs, all with followers. Other armies can field similar big-ass / expensive units, IG obviously comes to mind. As do nids- any large unit "without numbers" would be pretty amusing...
Maybe the Deathwing squad in question gets as many orbital strikes or some such as needed to make up the points difference???

lord_blackfang
08-01-2007, 20:11
Yeah, any unit contest that doesn't use points values invariably ends with the 4000 pts Chosen unit ;)

Elcampbello
08-01-2007, 20:24
The fully pimped guard platoon sounds like fun, wiat for the scum bags to come into rapid fire range and see how deadly flashlights are!

Hardened Vet's would work a treat, lascannon, 3 plasma guns, plasma pistol.

Lord Humongous
08-01-2007, 20:31
When it comes to choosen, for an actual, fieldable unit (WYSIWYG, painted, based, etc) my money would be on Khorne.
With khorne, your normal berserkers can be used as AC models- a khorne chosen AC with a chainax is still pretty ugly vs termies...
Tzeentch might have it hard. Many tzeentch players would have trouble coming up with enough chosen models - they can't really use rubric models as choosen, I'd think.

I'm assuming the store is gonna at least insist on painted, wysiwyg units, not unpainted / proxy models.

TheEndIsHere
08-01-2007, 20:49
20 chosen AC each with:
Mark of Tzeentch
terminator armour
D Resilience
D Str
D Mutation
Skipy Bits
Mater-Crafed Lightning Claws
Bolt of Change
Furious Charge
6 I:4 Ws: 4 Str: 6 Power Weapons attacks with 2 rerolls to hit and all rerolls to wound on charge *each*
That makes: 120 I:4 Ws: 4 Str: 6 Power Weapons attacks with 40 rerolls to hit and all rerolls to wound, on charge. Alot
Also a: Str: 8 AP: 2 Rng: 24" Assault 1 Shot
That makes 20 Str: 8 AP: 2 Rng: 24" Assault 1 Shots. Alot
T: 5 Save: 2+/5++
Bad to termies.

For them:

TheEndIsHere

DarkstarSabre
08-01-2007, 20:57
10 Deathwing terminators?

Easy.

1 Chaos Lord with Terminator Armour, Manreaper, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Strength, Daemonic Rune, Spiky Bits and Furious Charge.

Retinue - 6 Chaos Chosen in Terminator Armour, Mark of Nurgle, 2 Reaper Autocannons, 2 Power Fists, Furious Charge.

The Lord will do the job on his own.

The terminators are just meatshields.

Zerosoul
08-01-2007, 21:09
It's almost like people didn't read the part about it being Elites or Troops, what with all the HQ suggestions.

mistformsquirrel
08-01-2007, 21:11
It's almost like people didn't read the part about it being Elites or Troops, what with all the HQ suggestions.

Such is the way of the internets hehe

Angelus Mortis
08-01-2007, 21:30
If we're going with Elites - here's mine:

10 Grey Knights Terminators.

That's really all you'd need I'd think. They can shoot back every bit as nastily as the Deathwing (ok, sans assault cannons - but still), once they get into CC their attacks are far more effective as well (20 Str 6 Power Weapon attacks at I4? Yes please.)

But yeah... that's my pic.Seconded with the addition that you can put 2 Psycannons/Incinerators in here to almost compensate for the Assault Cannons. I would take the Incinerators personally. Nothing hurts more than to add insult to injury from 20 S6(30 on the charge) Power Weapons attacks than to slap an ordnance template on him just when hes starting to sweat.:evilgrin: :angel:

Daleran
08-01-2007, 21:42
FYI its not 10 man deathwing squad...and its not Assault CannonS. Deathwing terms will come in 5 man squads, and only have one heavy weapon available to them. So were talking about a 5 man squad of fearless terminators of which 3 will most likely be assault terms, one will be a sergeant, and one will have an assault cannon.

Yorkiebar
08-01-2007, 21:50
FYI its not 10 man deathwing squad...and its not Assault CannonS. Deathwing terms will come in 5 man squads, and only have one heavy weapon available to them. So were talking about a 5 man squad of fearless terminators of which 3 will most likely be assault terms, one will be a sergeant, and one will have an assault cannon.We know what's in the box, but that's not necessarily the whole squad, is it?

Daleran
09-01-2007, 05:02
Reliable sources have stated those ARE the new deathwing rules...they have other bonuses to help offset it, but in the stated scenario none of those other things will make any difference.

Lord Humongous
09-01-2007, 05:16
Maybe they are the "movie marines" version of DW termies. ;)

muskrat
09-01-2007, 06:05
Maximum alloted of Chosen wouldn't be twenty...wouldn't this squad fall under the lowest teir of chosen allowed?

If so-Maximum allotedment of Chosen, which by my count is 10, all with the trimmings of a nasty combat squad- Mark of Slaneesh, Combat Drugs, Lightnings Claw for each, one sorcerer with pair of claws and wind of Chaos (attack at the right angle, and get lucky, and five termies fit under a flamer template)

Furious Charge should help too, depending. so on the charge, by my count, thats (9x4)+5=41 power weapon attacks, I6 (not that the I really matters all that much with the target- maybe Mark of Khorne would be better) all rerolling, with a wind of Chaos before hand, at ld 10. Also, possible to give Daemonic strength to all of them, making the attacks str 5. Add in Daemonic mutation for all, and that's 51 attacks.

Let's not get into where the combat drugs take us on a good day. That Deathwing Squad is gone, period.

Laughingmonk
09-01-2007, 06:15
Just to have fun, I would use my 20 man storm gaurdian unit with a warlock with enhance. Costs about as much as the terminators, but with fleet they WILL catch them.

Also, it just occured to me that they will probably do a point by point basis on "Victory." If the terminators kill at least their points value, then they have "won." So if they kill two or three of the ultimate chosen, then they have already made their points back.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned a 20 man DE squad with Dark lances and blasters with tooled out sybarite. Can easily down terminators, in shooting or assault.

Onisuzume
09-01-2007, 08:47
A unit of 3 lictors. Now just hope that they come near cover...
Or maybe a unit of 32 without number gaunts.

Or a 5 Strong unit of Deathwing Terminators with 2 assault cannons, 4 chainfists and a Land Raider transport.

ANd that's with the armies that I play.

DarkstarSabre
13-01-2007, 16:52
It's almost like people didn't read the part about it being Elites or Troops, what with all the HQ suggestions.


Sorry, far too used to me Elite/HQ combo squad. Damned Chosen rules.

Ok. Let's try it again.

20 Chosen Aspiring Champion Terminators. With the Mark of Nurgle. With Furious Charge.

I think that says it all.

Misanthrope
13-01-2007, 18:08
No no no...

20 Khornate Aspiring Champion Chosen Terminators, Furious Charge, D Strength and D Mutation, and Lightning Claws -- for a measly 1980 points (holy sweet jesus) you get (on the charge) 140 (one-hundred-and-forty) Str6 re-rolling power attacks at Ini5.

Feor
13-01-2007, 18:29
I still think the 1K sons aspiring Champion Sorcerer Terminators with Gift of Chaos would be more interesting. Any Deathwing that doesn't make it's invulnerable slave basically turns on it's former comrades.

Plus, the fluffy delcious evilness of turning a Dark Angel to chaos. :evilgrin:

Lord Humongous
13-01-2007, 18:30
Maximum alloted of Chosen wouldn't be twenty...wouldn't this squad fall under the lowest teir of chosen allowed?

The maximum number of chosen you can have in a single squad is 20. The maximum you can have in an ARMY is dependant on the points of the game being played- which is stated here as having no limit (per the fact that you can spend as many points as you want), so you'd be allowed 40 total chosen, in squads of up to 20. Hence, one squad of 20 chosen seems allowed in this situation.

Velkyn Kyil
13-01-2007, 20:31
I'd go for the 20 Tzeentchian Chosen. But with 4 Thralls, 4 Chaos Hounds and a Chaos Spawn each, just for the ridiculous factor. 200 Models... :p

Gen.Steiner
13-01-2007, 20:38
Any troops choice, eh?

Guard Platoon, maxed out. :p 57 men, 9 plasma guns, 7 plasma pistols, 5 heavy bolters, and lotsa lasrifles. Bung 'em in Chimeras to make a Mechanised Troops Choice, and laugh. :p

FlyingViking
13-01-2007, 23:21
I'd go for 6 arco-flagellants, just for fun.

Not an obvious choice. Something that is absolutely nails in CC, tough to kill before it gets there, and also fun to play (oops, I rolled a 6 again. splat).
And probably costs the same or less than 5 terminators.

Hawkmoon
14-01-2007, 04:25
20 Khornate Aspiring Champion Chosen Terminators, Furious Charge, D Strength and D Mutation, and Lightning Claws -- for a measly 1980 points (holy sweet jesus) you get (on the charge) 140 (one-hundred-and-forty) Str6 re-rolling power attacks at Ini5.

YES!!! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

As if that wasn't abusive enough add feel no pain, the banner of rage and the dreaded spiky bitz! You will be rolling dice for so long your hands will fall off!

Morgrad
14-01-2007, 04:54
I agree with 32 gants without number.

I win! Eventually..........

Laughingmonk
14-01-2007, 06:14
Any troops choice, eh?

Guard Platoon, maxed out. :p 57 men, 9 plasma guns, 7 plasma pistols, 5 heavy bolters, and lotsa lasrifles. Bung 'em in Chimeras to make a Mechanised Troops Choice, and laugh. :p

I thought that they could take a remnants squad in addition to the rest, so that would make total of 50 for the basic squads, 5 for the command squad, and 9 for remnants.. for a total of 64 men, 6 chimeras.

So, General, allow me to elaborate a little, if you will:

I used AB to pull this one off, so there might be errors.

For doctrines, I used Iron discipline, Mech org, Carapace armor, Cyber enhancement, and sharpshooters.

Led by a Junior officer with Honorifica imperialis, powerfist and master crafted plasma pistol, bionics, medallion crimson, and iron discipline, Accompanied by a medic with master crafted plasma pistol, melta bombs, bionics, and storm bolter, veteran with same, trooper with plasma gun and trooper with vox caster.

For weapons, I pulled off 42 lasguns, 9 master crafted plasma pistols( or 8 storm bolters and 1 mc ppistol), 5 lascannons, 7 plasma guns, 6 heavy bolters, 6 multilasers, 6 hunter killer missiles, 6 pintle heavy stubbers, and 9 melta bombs.

All troops have carapace armor, cyber enhancement, sharpshooters, vox casters, and frag grenades.

All veteran sgts have bionics and melta bombs (just in case of land raider)

All chimeras have every upgrade.

all for a paltry 2438 points, according to AB.

Leave it to the Guard to bring an entire army in one Force Org selection.

DoctorTom
14-01-2007, 06:23
Well, if you can take any Elite choice, then an Armored Company Tank Ace in a Destroyer Tank Hunter might be best - stay at a distance and instakill them.

If we're looking at 'standard' lists, I'd probably go (like a previous poster) with a tooled out harlequin squad (except no Death Jester).

ChrisAsmadi
14-01-2007, 09:59
Well, it said squads, so I don't think Guard Platoons or tanks would work. >_>

Minos Engele
14-01-2007, 10:09
15 deamonettes, 15 Bloodletters, Obliterators, 15 Possessed with Deamonic Talons, 20 Pimped out chosen, 20 Berzerkers, 20 Rubric Marines with Sorcerer who has Gift of Chaos.

Gen.Steiner
14-01-2007, 13:39
I thought that they could take a remnants squad in addition to the rest, so that would make total of 50 for the basic squads, 5 for the command squad, and 9 for remnants.. for a total of 64 men, 6 chimeras.

So, General, allow me to elaborate a little ... Leave it to the Guard to bring an entire army in one Force Org selection.


Yes, you're right! Thanks :D Apart from the Silly Tzeentchian Army of Doom, there's nothing that beats that. ;)


Well, it said squads, so I don't think Guard Platoons or tanks would work. >_>

Ah, no, it said Troops Squads, implying a Troops Choice. And in an Armoured Company, one tank is a squad - while in a Guard army a platoon is a single Troops Choice. So there. Nyah. :p