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Yade
08-01-2007, 19:41
I have a Dark Eldar army that I dont play anymore. Not because i don't like it but because people just will not play me when I have it. I would consider taking it to tournaments but for now, local play, I cannot find a game. So I end up playing marines or something benign as to get games.

I am not the kind of player to get all over people or be rude or condescending in anyway, so I am wondering if I should just be stead fast and get it out and keep trying or if I should just retire it to tournament play only.

Cirenivel
08-01-2007, 20:06
that depends, what is in your army? if its the most :cheese: army EVER, then it might be a tourny list, but it might be that you can ask your oponents why they won't play you.

Cirenivel

Yade
08-01-2007, 20:17
I play the Air Force. I know that almost all of my other elite, heavy and fast choices are useles so I am stuck with raider squads and wyches.

sephiroth87
08-01-2007, 20:23
Ever considered it might be you? :D

Seriously, the Dark Eldar list isn't that bad to fight and it certainly isn't hard to figure out how to beat it. If people are complaining about it, they'll still complain when you play something else that wins.

Yade
08-01-2007, 20:31
Well I am a tought tactician but I make up for it in friendliness. The truth is that none of the dark eldar players in my area can find games now. we have all decided to take up new armies. I would like them to revise the codex because if there were more useful units then there would be more variety in the Dark Eldar armies being played. That would shake it up a little.

Baneboss
08-01-2007, 20:55
Depends if your local community plays cheese lists or not. You can always try to experiment and change your list. Add some Scourges, Mandrakes. Try playing Warrior heavy static force.

In my local shop there are 2 DE players. It hasnt even crossed our minds to refuse to play. On the other hand most of us like to play using tournament lists.

Yade
08-01-2007, 21:06
I would agree with you on adding mandrakes or scourges if they werent the biggest waste of time. The De list forces players into 1 of 2 genres and no other. Either a statis horde of dark lances or the air force. Everything else is just so bad that its not worth taking.

The_Outsider
08-01-2007, 21:36
Wych cult begs to differ.

Also who seriously doesn't want to play vs DE? Unless you win every game because you have a good list and play it well whoever you're facing maybe needs to use their head a bit more and think about how to dismantle a DE army.

Yade
08-01-2007, 21:58
I agree that the list can be defeated, the problem is, not to make myself look stupid, that the list is solid all by itself. It is almost a matter of dice rolling in lieu of any tactics. it is more interesting to play as a marine because I have to think more, the DE just swoop across the table, not caring who or what gets killed, and outshoot the opponent, strike before they do and outnumber them most of the time.

The_Outsider
08-01-2007, 22:05
...Err thats a strategy. DE aren't like marines crons / chaos (hell even compared to eldar) - they aren't built like tanks.

They basically never get a save vs most weapons.

No joke, this is the first time I have heard of DE called just dice rollers compared to marines.

Yade
08-01-2007, 22:13
You're right they are not marines. They are cheaper and have better weapons. They have the same ws and bs and better initiative, plus there are double the numbers.

10 marines vs 20 dark eldar. Hand to hand combat. The dark eldar always go first and out number them 2 to 1. I could list the page of statistics to play this out but in the end the DE win. The space marines are going to roll twice ans many saves and they are going to get to go second every time. A war of attrition, sure, a war that the marines could win, luck.

The_Outsider
08-01-2007, 22:31
Wounding on 5's really, really sucks.

So....DE are the new marines?

Yade
08-01-2007, 22:40
Nah I would never say that they are the new marines, I never lose to marines with the DE.

Wounding on 5s instead of 3s and saving on 5s instead of 3s. All that said, the double numbers are still a winning factor. Any marine player who has been surrounded by tyranids or hordes of little guys knows that the outnumber thing is big. It may take awhile but in the end the marine player needs some luck to come out standing.

40k is a numbers game as much as it is tactics, the more dice you make someone roll the more guys that are going to die. This fact is devoid of tactics and it is why the DE have an advantage. they have a great stat line at 8 points per model.

Farseer Silvanus
08-01-2007, 22:54
I don't think the DE are the new marines.lol That's a hoot. I will talk those 20 to have a chance against the marines in hth.The first time the DE fail a leadership and that's their tail. The 1st time the marines fail a ld test and they either get away or realize they are marines and continue fighting.lol

Yade
08-01-2007, 22:55
trophy rack, 5 points and the DE have the same leadership as the marines.

There are too many simple tactics that can drastically outweigh their downsides.

Thoth62
08-01-2007, 23:07
This is true, and I actually doubt that 10 marines could force a ld check very often on 20 DE Warriors. It would probably happen the other way around more often then not.

ashc
08-01-2007, 23:10
I think Yade needs to be posting a Dark Eldar tactica pronto ;)

on a more serious note, is your complaint with the Dark Eldar or your friends? as others have said, i have never seen anyone refuse to play a dark eldar player.

On the other hand, I have never seen an excellent dark eldar player.

Ash

cailus
09-01-2007, 02:10
The DE can be a brutal army if used correctly. I remember several times my 3rd edition marines were wiped out in 3 turns. Quite simply they were too quick getting into close combat for me to do any damage in shooting and then they hit hard. What the close combat guys didn't take out, the mobile high BS shooting would take out instead.

I've also used them a couple of times and have easily wiped out both Nids and Tau with them.

Nebėhr Gudahtt
09-01-2007, 02:42
20 Dark Eldar hitting 10 Marines would kill 1 Marine on average.
10 Marines hitting 20 Dark Eldar would kill 2 Dark Eldar on average.

Dark Eldar aren't bad, but don't put them base to base with T4 and 3+ save troops without a few agonizers.

Light of the Emperor
09-01-2007, 05:12
The Dark Eldar are THE tacticians army. When the correct formula for them is found, they can be nigh unstoppable. The DE air force is the best I've seen so far. I've used it and I've faced it. Its a great list and IT IS NOT CHEESEY! It uses all the assets the DE has and eliminates most of its weaknesses. You can't argue with that.
My regular opponent fielded that army and when I lost to him, I didn't cry out that he used a broken or cheesy list. I simply told him "wait 'till next game!". It may be that your opponents have yet to come up with a way to beat you...and because of that they won't play. I don't know... but I wouldn't stop playing the DE for that.
I would love to play against the DE. Here I am fighting against marines...again.

Go Dark Eldar!

Onisuzume
09-01-2007, 09:55
The Dark Eldar are THE tacticians army. When the correct formula for them is found, they can be nigh unstoppable. The DE air force is the best I've seen so far. I've used it and I've faced it. Its a great list and IT IS NOT CHEESEY! It uses all the assets the DE has and eliminates most of its weaknesses. You can't argue with that.
My regular opponent fielded that army and when I lost to him, I didn't cry out that he used a broken or cheesy list. I simply told him "wait 'till next game!". It may be that your opponents have yet to come up with a way to beat you...and because of that they won't play. I don't know... but I wouldn't stop playing the DE for that.
I would love to play against the DE. Here I am fighting against marines...again.

Go Dark Eldar!
Well put, I'd hate to see a DE player drop the army.
They aren't played enough as it is. (maybe it has something to do with them being removed from the shelves...)

jansuza
09-01-2007, 13:41
I understand where you're coming from. I also used to play a very one-sided DE army that never lost, and eventually, people didn't want to play me anymore.

Start making it more of a challenge for yourself. Play with cool units or try a tactic that probably won't work.

Currently, I'm playing an extremely balanced list that goes something like:

Archon
3 Haemonculi on Jetbikes with destructors (these guys are fun)
7 wyches on raider
6 mandrakes (the underdogs. my only real objective is to let them kill something significant. It hasn't worked yet)
4 sniper squads
2 ravagers with dissies
talos

Thats alot of different units, and even though I've been playing DE solidly since they came out, this list keep me entertained, because you never know what's going to be the game winner. It could be anyone...

Now go forth and have fun

Wraithbored
09-01-2007, 14:28
Well this topic has derailed badly.

But back on topic dude you asked what's wrong with the army nothing, but you do play a very competitive list, beat people(I don't know what army they use) and then say "Oh noes I can't ge ta game", that just sounds like you're tooting your own horn. And to make a game even less available you refuse to alter your army in any way.(The list is not cheesy it's a solid list, but if you're ignoring the You and your opponent must have a fun game rule then I'm sure you can see why you can't ge ta game). And yes personally I'd hate to see people stop playing Dark Eldar. They are a good army that needs more attention from GW and players.

Yade
09-01-2007, 18:04
Definitely not tooting my own horn, in fact I am trying to discuss a problem that I have encoutnered as well as others without letting ego get involved. I like to play competitively and I like to play for fun, it is really hard to get a competitive game when you are playing the DE.

I agree that 10 marines will whittle down 20 DE, but the DE go first and in the end you'll have a few DE left and a syarite and the marines will be gone.

jfrazell
09-01-2007, 18:45
Yade if you don't mind post a copy of your list on the armies section or here (the DE "air force" one).

Shrike30
09-01-2007, 18:59
I'd think that having some assault or veteran (CC) marines (or hell, some 'rines running True Grit) would be a big equalizer here. DE can bomb straight into close combat, sure, but I think there's a bit of a lack of proper counterassaulting going on if they're just mopping up like that.

Captain Micha
09-01-2007, 19:41
if you lived around here. I would gladly play your De. I have never actually seen a de mini before irl. I would love to see how my Tau play vs them. (no I'm not a crisis anime boi lol) would be great.. mobility with knives vs mobility with guns lol


ps. I think the winner of every game should say "face trounced" and the loser say "thank you" and move on.

jfrazell
09-01-2007, 20:34
I'd think that having some assault or veteran (CC) marines (or hell, some 'rines running True Grit) would be a big equalizer here. DE can bomb straight into close combat, sure, but I think there's a bit of a lack of proper counterassaulting going on if they're just mopping up like that.

Well they can still only move 12in and deploy.

I think I've played DE maybe 6 times. 4 of 6 times have been victories, but all have been hard fought (and all but one thoroughly enjoyable). They are a tactical army with high movement and relatively frail, but quite good against marines. That and their completely different playing style can really throw opponents.

Having said that anything non-MEQ should have plenty of opponents.

Fear is the mind killer
09-01-2007, 22:45
If you're whuping them with a well-designed list, try replacing some of your units with characterful units that aren't as effective. It's a good way of encouraging them to give you another chance if they recognise that it's not as powerful as possible.

Alternatively offer to swap sides, they can play as dark eldar and you use their army. That way you can teach them how to beat DE and they'll know for future battles.

Arch-Traitor Horus
10-01-2007, 06:20
1 point agonizers all round is needed
furthermore what with people and saying reaver's suck in cc if found them great cause most times they can get in to cc on the first turn

Yade
10-01-2007, 17:54
OK going over and posting my lists right now in the tactics section of 40k. Give me about 20 minutes as they take awhile to get listed.