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View Full Version : Starting Fantasy - Uh Help?



Voodoo Boyz
08-01-2007, 21:11
Hi. I know I made a thread asking about which 40k army to pick up as my 3rd and said I wouldn't start Fantasy, but after giving it some thought and seeing some WHFB games played, I'm being lured in to the old world.

So I'm looking to start a Fantasy Army, in fact starting the game for the first time after playing 40k for about 2 years (Orks & Marines). I don't know a lot about the fluff, but I do know a few things about what I would and would NOT like in an army:

1.) I don't want a hoard.
2.) I don't want Cheese, but I don't want pushovers either.
3.) It's going to be a hard sell to get me to play anything Human, Elves are pushing it.
4.) I'm not playing Orcs, I've already painted 100+ Greenskins and I ain't doing it again! :p
5.) I want an army that's balanced and can do a little bit of everything (move, shoot, magic, assault).

I'm also a gamer first, modeler second, and a painter 3rd. I want an army that is fun to play, but also fun to play against.

Two armies in particular caught my eye: Dwarves & Lizardmen.

I have to admit that I absofreakinlutely love Dwarves as far as a fluff perspective and as their overall model line and character style. It also helps that my wife things they're adorable and I may get her to actually help me paint them. ;) They're also cheap and come in the starter box, huge plusses right?

Well I spoke with the folks at my local GW store and upon mentioning Dwarves I heard "Don't be that guy" and "they're so cheesy and easy to make broken". I also stated that I wanted an army that was fun that I actually had to manuver and work with to win. Given that Dwarves move 3", and from what I've read on Dwarf tactics it revolves around shooting people and having them break themselves on your troop lines - so magic is out and so is a whole lot of manuvering.

I don't want a "stand and shoot" army where my troops just sit there and wait to be charged or at best stand only to charge when the enemy arrived and charged my shooters. That comes off as boring for me to play and that's exactly what people at the store told me Dwarves would be like, very little moving (or need to move) my troops and a whole lot of shoot and then win CC through being resilient. I also heard about the Anvil of Doom being broken and a whole lot of complaints about it.

I do so love the models, the character of them and everything like that though. :(

So my other thoughts went to Lizardmen. Nice models, easy to paint for me (always a plus), not too soft, not too squishy, can shoot, can assault, can do lots of magic, lots of movement if I wanted - I'm thinking this may be a good idea.

I love the look of Saurus on Cold Ones, but everything I read on them says take 1 minimized unit of them max (ie 5 guys) and that's kind of sad since I think they're awesome looking and I LOVE fast stuff.

The downside? Um, they're not Dwarves? They seem to be a bit more fun to play with and against though and that means more to me than the stunties looking cool.

I still need to get a copy of the rulebook, I still really need to pay attention to an entire game playing out, and I still need to decide how I'm going to start the army. I was hoping that the fine folks here could help me out by giving me some info on the two armies, what they think of em, and things to start with if I went with either one.

All help is appreciated, thanks!

druchii
08-01-2007, 21:25
Hi. I know I made a thread asking about which 40k army to pick up as my 3rd and said I wouldn't start Fantasy, but after giving it some thought and seeing some WHFB games played, I'm being lured in to the old world.

_SNIP_

All help is appreciated, thanks!


First off, welcome to the dark side! After you get into Fantasy, you'll lose most of your appetite for 40k(I know my entire gaming group did!).

Second off, I like your initial thoughts. I'm much of the same opinion. An army that can do well in all phases of the game is much more fun and inspiring.

With your initial intentions for an army(movement, magic, combat and shooting) indeed angle you towards something like lizardmen. Unfortunately dwarves do two of the phases well, and only one is offensive(shooting) while the other is more of a "wait and see" backup(combat).

Lizardmen are awesome. Hands down, what's cooler than a dinosaur?(nothing!) They indeed ARE easy to paint and convert, hell, they're reptiles!

Shooting will NOT play as big a role as you think it will. Shooting is very much like a low-end magic game. That is, don't expect it to win you the game. Although it WILL help, ALOT(depending on your investment). While Skinks make a good show of shooting, they aren't all they're cracked up to be.

Through the volume of shots, you're really hoping on sixes. And then you're hoping your opponent will fail his armor saves.

This isn't to say that skinks are bad(by any definition of the word), just that they're more support.

Magic is something that lizardmen can excell in. You just have to pay for it. Out the nose. But it's worth it! The Slann are the BEST casters in the game, and with a unit of temple guard, they're incredibly hard to neutralize. Either go all the way, or not at all. If you're going for a magic intrinsic army, make it a second generation. There's no point in spending 400+ points on a model and NOT making him as aggressive and destructive as possible. The additional rules for the second gen. make him well worth it.

Keep an eye on saurus cav. They're awesome. Don't let anyone fool you. While they ARE stupid (just get them into combat!) they're incredible once they contact that badguy unit. You just have to be absolutely sure they get there. This can be accomplished with magic and/or baiting and fleeing, both things that will serve you well in a LM army.

Hope this helps, as god knows it wasn't short!
d

Selsaral
08-01-2007, 21:30
Yeah it sounds like Lizardmen might have the components you like. My gaming group really loves them. The miniatures are great, the fluff is extremely stylish, and on the battlefield they are diverse and effective.

AllTheWayUlthwe
08-01-2007, 21:34
Are you opposed to the UNDEAD. I know the Vampires are a HOARD army BUT the Tomb Kings are not. They are very reliant on magic, but they can have eilte troops and scrubs to go fight for you. I like my TK's and they were my first army when I switched to fantasy from 40K.

However, the Dwarves can be much more than a Stand and Shoot army. They have the most rock solid units in the game. I also play Brettonians and I must say I think twice before charging ANY Dwarf block unit. 20+ Dwarves in a unit, let alone Ironbreakers or Longbeards are force to be reconded with. The only problem I have with the Dwarves is that they are a pretty one dimentional army. They have no cavalry and they are painfully slow. Dwarves will be outmanuvered in EVERY GAME! Be prepared for this and don't get upset with this fact.

I think the Lizards would be more to your liking. They are spoiled for choice options and they can be very hard in HtH. It all comes down to what do you want to paint, scales or armor? The armies pretty much play the same, except for shooting obviously. So what do you want to paint and see yourself moving around the table? One word on Lizard Cavalry. STAY AWAY FROM THEM! They SUCK OUT LOUD! Nuff' said.

Hobgoblyn
08-01-2007, 21:35
Take Dwarves, but don't play them the way people hate-- big gun lines, anvil and such...

Instead play them as they are meant to be played with a bulk of warriors and no bigger percentage of guns than you'd take archers in most other armies.

And later you can convert them to CD if you ever want to put some Orcs, Hobgoblins and Goblins in later if you like (I take you like them or you wouldn't have them in 40K).

But Lizardmen are entirely a valid option too. I just don't think you should run away from an army because it has been frowned on. If you know part of the book isn't well-balanced, avoid abusing it.

Paulus
08-01-2007, 21:39
Dwarf's are fantastic (or at least I think so), they can be an offensive army if you know how to use them, but it's difficult.

Most Dwarf armies tend to be defensive & shooting with very tough troops & good magic resistance.

The downsides as you say are their lack of manouverability & that they don't use magic.

Lizardmen, I am a little biased towards as I collect them myself.

They have a lot of variety & can be played defensively of offensively.

They also have debatably the best wizards in the game in the Slann (or at least they're intended to be) available to them.

Neither army is a horde army as you've said you wanted to avoid so you've narrowed your selection down well.

I would say make your choice on two points:

1) Which of the above styles of play suits you more.

2) Although you said your a painter 3rd I would still say that which one you think you'll enjoy painting more is a vital point as a fantasy army contains more mini's than a 40K army & your going to have to paint them.

Atzcapotzalco
09-01-2007, 09:12
It's true that dwarves aren't limited to the static gunline, although it is the easiest and most obvious way to use them. While high strength missile fire and reliable war machines with engineering runes as an option is one of their big strengths, it isn't their *only* strength-they also have excellent leadership, solid combat ability, strong characters, and powerful runic weapons, armour, and banners. A dwarf army equipped for close combat will give a good account of itself against most opponents. They also have several tricks which can to some degree compensate for their lack of mobility, including miners, rangers, the master rune of challenge, the rune of brotherhood, and perhaps most importantly their relentless rule allowing them to march regardless of enemy presence. That said, I also have to admit that they *are* an army of slow-moving infantry, without cavalry or spellcasters, and that does limit their ability to manouvre against faster opponents. They aren't limited to a completely static playing style, and it's almost a bigger challenge to manouvre with them than with my southlands lizardmen who have inherent speed to rely on, but if you want an army with genuinely fast elements, you should choose the lizardmen.

Jester007
12-01-2007, 06:55
Keep an eye on saurus cav. They're awesome.

I'm gonna have to disagree there. I don't think you get your points for Saraus Cav. Here's something in comparison:

Saraus Cav (35 points)
WS4 S4 T4 I1 A2 LD8 3+ armor save

Chaos Knight (33 points)
WS5 S5 T4 I5 A1 LD8 2+ armor save

For about the same points cost, I think you get more out of the Chaos Knight. Yeah the Saraus has one more attack and has the Cold Blooded rule, but the Higher WS and Base Strength along with the better armor save puts the Knight above the Saraus Cav in my book.

Don't get me wrong, I love the geckos. I play them regularly. I just put more faith into the normal units of Saraus Warriors. You can get a unit of 20 of these guys with full command for the price of 6 Saraus Cav with command. I like the odds better with the block of Saraus.

The dwarves are a tough bunch. Good armor all around, excellent LD, and reliable warmachines. You just need to be patient with them. Since you're not exactly gonna be running circles around people, you wait for them to come to you. As they are marching up, start getting rid of some of their rank bonuses with missile fire and warmachines. That way you can out number the enemy. With their WS4 and T4 stacked with good armor, you'll be seeing a lot of enemy units desparately clawing at you. Thats when you have a nearby unit of crossbow dwarves maybe armed with great weapons (hehe, that was a dirty trick someone did to me :cries: ), and flank. Next thing you know, half of your opponent's army is running from the stunties.

Anyways, good luck with deciding what kind of army you want to run. Catch ya later.

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