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Sleazy
09-01-2007, 15:54
Hey.

Got myself a bit of a barg at the weekend when i spyed a copy of Space Hulk in a market for a fiver!

i always loved this game but I have a question. This is the original box set, I remember 2 expansions- Genestealer & Deathwing but wasnt there a 2nd edition to this game a few years later?

Was this much different? should I seek out the 2nd ed rules?

Any advice would be cool.

Catferret
09-01-2007, 15:59
I own 2nd Ed and it wasn't anywhere near as good as 1st ed. GW streamlined 2nd Ed too much. Stick with 1st if you have both expansions.

Dwarf Supreme
09-01-2007, 16:46
I agree with Catferret; the 1st edition is better. 2nd edition eliminated the sustained fire rule and the time limit and flamers work differently. Plus, since there were no supplements to 2nd edition, no psykers, hybrids or Termies with variant weapons.

Silvereye
10-01-2007, 11:12
Owning the rules for both, the only thing better in the second ed. was the Terminator models. I would however recomend hunting around for copies of the Genestealer and Deathwing rules.

mattjgilbert
10-01-2007, 12:07
Yeah 1st is the best edition by far. I play tested 2nd Edition and didn't really like it. The artwork was good though. wonderdog has a cool site here (http://www.spacehulk.co.nr/) with all the various board sections etc. you can print and download plus lots of other goodies.

Bombot
10-01-2007, 12:43
I agree with Catferret; the 1st edition is better. 2nd edition eliminated the sustained fire rule and the time limit and flamers work differently. Plus, since there were no supplements to 2nd edition, no psykers, hybrids or Termies with variant weapons.

Sustained fire is still there but you only get a +1 bonus to hit, rather than the ever increasing bonus that 1st ed had.

There is no time limit at all for the Marines in 2nd ed.

Aside from the flamers, the other change is that command points can only be used in the Marine turn.

On the whole the changes hardly make 2nd ed a bad game. But it's not worth seeking out the rules if you already have the 1st ed ones.

Catferret
10-01-2007, 12:55
The one thing I liked in 2nd Ed was the change to how Heavy Flamers worked. I liked setting fire to individual squares. Although torching a whole room took a lot of ammo!

EVIL INC
10-01-2007, 17:34
You know, I never actually played the game but I remember getting a couple copies and cannibalizing them for models and floor squares. I remember setting up a 4'/8' table with "tunnel" entrances. I had a second table set up with the floor plans and the entrances corresponded with the tunnel entrances to represent tunnel fighting. Much fun.

The Ape
10-01-2007, 17:44
Genestealer is quite expensive on Ebay if you want a copy with all the models in it.

There is also an excellent compendium with all the articles from White Dwarf in it - it has lots of extra missions and rules for using power armoured marines in it - normally sells for about £15 on Ebay.

2_heads_talking
10-01-2007, 21:50
I own the 2nd Edition game; its a damned good play (in fact its the only GW game my gf will play with me!) and we've had many a great night! The flamer rules I feel work well, though even now I'm not sure I play them right because of contradictions in the rules (flamers must be move or fire, then an example shows a space marine moving through a corridor THEN firing flamer on same turn? Which is right?).

Still, I'd love to pick up the original, plus the expansion packs.

Catferret
10-01-2007, 21:52
If you have enough Action or Command Points then it's possible to move or fire.

2_heads_talking
10-01-2007, 22:00
So the correct way to play it is indeed as a Move OR Fire weapon?

In case you think me an absolute tube, it was a drawing of an example on how to use command points; the player had his space marine use all his action points moving to a door and facing some 'stealers, the example then allowed the space marine to use two command points to fire the flamer, making it a move AND fire weapon.

There was no indication in the rules that only command points could allow you to do this; it appeared that the space marine player could perform any action then fire the flamer.

Just thought I'd explain.

Catferret
10-01-2007, 22:23
I can't remember off ahnd how many points it takes to fire the flamer but IIRC there are no move or fire weapons in Space Hulk. If you want to spend your points to do something then just do it.

Wonderdog
10-01-2007, 23:37
I think your getting mixed up between "turns" and "actions" You can move and fire a flamer during one turn, but there is no "move and fire" action (like you can with stormbolters - i.e pay you pay only one AP to move forward whilst firing the stormbolter from the hip).

Flamers need to be 'stationary' to fire (at a cost of 2APs) - but that just means you must spend some AP's to move, then some more AP's to fire, rather than getting to do both at a handy discount like the stormbolter :D

This mechanic serves to stop flamers rushing all over the place toasting stuff... you need to be a bit more tactical with them :D

Hope this clarifies.

For ther record - 2nd edition gets a lot of unfairly bad press. Even ignoring the prettier models and better artwork, its benefit is that its a damn site quicker and easier to play that the first iteration. The flamer rules are far, far superior to the 1st ed rules, the custom shooting dice work very well, and its not bogged down with lots of complex modifiers or strange "out of turn" command actions that easily confused new players. Contrary to what thier price on ebay might suggest, the 1st edition expansions werent actually that great, as they heaped complex and often highly unbalanced rules onto what was a reasonably clean and fast playing game system (Deathwing wasnt to bad, but Genestealer was dreadful).

One of the main reasons that 2nd edition takes so much flak is the total lack of post-launch support given by GW. Half a dozen 3 mission campaigns in white dwarf, but no proper "expansions" or rules for using alternate races etc. In comparison, 1st edition had 2 boxed expansions (though genestealer, as mentioned, was a bit crap) and loads of nice articles in white dwarf (power armoured marines, traitor terminators, eldar, etc etc.).

In fact, Space hulk 2nd ed makes a great rules basis for any kind of boarding party type game, and a ready soure or suitable floor tiles to boot.

The timer was a startling ommission though, (1st edition gave you X minutes for the marine turn, which dropped by 30 seconds if your seargent was killed!) and this added a lot of suspense....

I've actually posted some up to date rules for power armour and scout armour in 2nd edition on my site... might be worth a look for those with both editions who believe that 1st ed was more flexible, as I believe they show just what you can do under the bonnet whilst keeping the cleaner lines of 2nd ed.

#Wonderdog

CaptainSenioris
19-01-2007, 13:40
Catferret, you're gonna have to dig out space hulk and give me a game sometime before march I'd quite like a go of the classic space hulk using whatever rules suit you. At the very least it'll give me ideas on how to run the space hulk game that we're taking to conflict this year.

Anyway back to being on topic, there is another rules set on GW's website using the current 40k kill team rules and adding some clasic space hulk flavour with additional advanced rules for doors, setting stuff on fire etc

Wonderdog
19-01-2007, 14:43
there is another rules set on GW's website using the current 40k kill team rules and adding some clasic space hulk flavour with additional advanced rules for doors, setting stuff on fire etc

They're crap. nuff said ;)

Teufelskerl
25-01-2007, 14:46
For ther record - 2nd edition gets a lot of unfairly bad press.

Wonderdog is spot on with his analysis; 1st edition is good with many good things about it, but the expansions really unbalanced the game. 2nd edition is as good, with many good things about it, but was treated as a red-headed step-child by GW.

Speaking as a devoted collector and player of Space Hulk (I own anything that was ever put out for SH, including at least 3 copies of all board sections that were ever put out, 1st edition boards, 2nd edition boards, DW and GS boards as well as the board section published in White Dwarf, and enough painted minis to supply an entire convention), I prefer the 1st edition AssCan rules but the 2nd edition Flamer, and many of the 2nd edition mechanics but the 1st edition game timer. In other words, when I play, I take elements from both games to make a sort of house-rules-hybrid. The game plays quick, with intense moments where the Marine player must make snap decisions, but tactical decision-making is still supported; exactly what Space Hulk should be.

On the other hand, I refuse to use the psyker rules, due to their unbalancing influence (even the fan-mods leave the game unplayable, which is a shame.)


Frederich

Wonderdog
25-01-2007, 19:14
Amen to that brother! Exactly what I do myself.

Nostro
26-01-2007, 07:24
Anybody knows where I can find the 1st Ed missions online? I've been searching for quite a while and just can't find them...

Aundae
26-01-2007, 23:29
Put me on the list for wanting the missions as well. :D

Wonderdog
28-01-2007, 00:24
Ooops, yeh, I must remember to do the original game books when I get home.

I would like to do the campain book to, but cant bring myself to split an untouched original...

Teufelskerl
28-01-2007, 06:21
One of the essential links that every fan of Space Hulk should have is http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/

You want all the missions? Go to Features, then to Resurrected Sites. Carlsson's site was (and now is again) THE place to go.


Frederich

Aundae
28-01-2007, 18:08
I appreciate the link, thank you very much. :D

azazel_fallenangel
31-01-2007, 16:12
Slightly offf topic(but not really), I recently, and finally, uograded myself to a new top line Mobile phone, and found that I can download the original video game of Space Hulk onto it for about 3. is it worth it? has anybody played it? It's not quite like a console game that I can sell if i don't like it.

Wonderdog
31-01-2007, 16:47
No - its a dreadful conversion of a dreadful converion.

Save the 3 quid man!

Vic
31-01-2007, 17:27
Does anyone know if SH 2nd ed rules are online? I've seen 1st ed. online, and I own the actual game itself. I'd like to get 2nd ed rules, as well as the campaign book (does anyone even sell the campaign book anymore?).

Barring that, Ebay hasnt been very fruitful in helping me obtain a copy of SH 2nd ed (it is where I bought my copy of 1st Ed. though). Im in the U.S., which makes its scarcity even greater than say the UK (where according to urban legend you can get it at boot (garage/flea market) sales.
[dice0]

Wonderdog
31-01-2007, 20:40
errrrr..... www.spacehulk.co.nr - for all your 2nd ed Space Hulk needs.

#Wonderdog

Bombot
31-01-2007, 20:52
For ther record - 2nd edition gets a lot of unfairly bad press.

I agree. Ok, 1st ed might be better if you're playing against serious gamers, as the timer adds atmosphere and the hidden CPs add tactical bluffing. But I don't generally play Space Hulk against hardcore gamers. As a good boardgame that's easy enough to teach to mates and girlfriends, 2nd ed is fine.

Wonderdog
31-01-2007, 21:10
Oh ********, I just realised I never bothered to do the actual rulebook or mission book from 2nd ed.. err... oops :D

I shall rememdy that asap... along with the 1st ed ones as well for good measure.

Vic
01-02-2007, 01:29
Thank you wonderdog!!!!

Actually, 1st edition has been covered, you may just want to link to it. Its called the Space Hulk Bible. I have it printed and bound, good read! The actual rules for SH 1st ed. are pretty enemic though. I have both in my boxed set, not much rules wise.

Any rate, looking forward to 2nd ed when you get the chance!

You da dog!

2_heads_talking
11-02-2007, 19:05
I tried a game of Space Hulk last night with my g/f, we've been playing through the first campaign of the 2nd Ed of which I (the Marne player) have been gubbed on each so far. We were playing the fourth mission, and I just thought I'd let you know how it went:

The space marines had to flame two rooms, whcih were supposed to have been filled with infected terminators. The battle actually went reall well for me at first, though I'd lost both Terminator Sergeants (one did well, killing two 'Stealers in cc before going down, but the second died almost instantly). One room was well flamed and the second flamer-wielding Termy was just as the entrance of the second room, with 2 APs left and a Stealer standing within the room in front of him. My g/f had not managed to roll a single '6' to survive a flamer shot the entire battle, so what does she do...?

Yep, she saves. With that my flamer Termy gets wiped out quick sharpish, while the two terminators behind him (who were both on Overwatch against a Genestealer entry point) were set upon on both sides and klled.

A couple of dead Terminatros later, and I had only my original successful flamer and one storm bolter standing. At that point, the massed 'Stealer models came rushing forwards. My last storm bolter died from behind, while I decided to control my flamer's own fate and charged him forward (he only had nine templates left anyway, so if he fired he would not have enough ammo to complete the mission anyway!). He managed to **** one Genestealer in cc, but then charged fowardf and was gutted by another.

So, four missions played and four missions lost. Think the emperor won't be too happy with me! :(

Wonderdog
11-02-2007, 22:51
It can seem pretty tough for the marines, but once you get some practice they get much more balanced against the Genestealers.

Overwatch is your best friend... get yourself some close cover and lay down long range overwatch, use CP's to rush your flamers to where they need to be, and dont be afraid to sacrifice a few marines if needbe to achieve your mission!

#Wonderdog

f2k
12-02-2007, 11:27
Some of the 2. ed. missions are insanely tough for the Marines.

Did anybody try the Blood Angles campaign that was in White Dwarf - the one with a Blood Angle cruiser that had to be cleansed? Having tried it a couple of times, me and my friends agreed never to play it again. It was nearly impossible to complete as Marine player.

In general, I harbour an intense hatred for those mission where you have to flame a room. You don't have much ammo for the flamer in the first place. And then having to withhold a complete reload just to flame a room - nuts...
We used to play with unlimied ammo for the flamer - that seemed to make it a bit easier for the Marine player.

Sigh, sorry 'bout the rant...

On a more positive note, the Space Wolves campaign was sheer genious. Hunting 'steales with Assault Cannons was fun...

2_heads_talking
12-02-2007, 11:41
Actually, I've been looking out for Internet versions of those campaigns for ages; never collected the WDs with them and have had no luck finding them since.

Does anyone know a location that has the campaigns and the floor tiles? The campaign that came with the venting system seemed really interesting...

Teufelskerl
12-02-2007, 13:25
Actually, I've been looking out for Internet versions of those campaigns for ages; never collected the WDs with them and have had no luck finding them since.

Does anyone know a location that has the campaigns and the floor tiles? The campaign that came with the venting system seemed really interesting...

2 Heads, if you read my response in Message #22, you'll see I recommend a site that has pretty much every mission ever made for Space Hulk.

Besides http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/ also add these to your Favorites:

Wonderdogs Space Hulk Page, http://www.spacehulk.co.nr/
Expanding the Hulk, http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~tezzajw/
Hulkskulkers site, http://www.geocities.com/hulkskulker/

Those 4 websites give you almost everything you could ever want, including blips and board tiles.


Frederich

2_heads_talking
12-02-2007, 14:50
I knew of http://spacehulk.barsoom.cc/ already, as it also helped me find rules for playing Imperial Guard in Space Hulk, but that site does seem more dedicated towards 1st Ed. (as, indeed, do almost all of them).

I put Wonderdog's page on my "Favourites" last night, just need to get a chance to look through it. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the links, though

EDIT:

Found all the campaigns, magic. Cheers!

Vic
14-02-2007, 04:08
2 heads,could you post the link where you found all the campaigns? Doyou mean the campaigns from the campaign book,or the ones that came with the box set?

Nevermind, found it!!

Thank you all!!

Wonderdog
15-02-2007, 16:42
I have all the 2nd ed campaigns up (painstakingly razored out of WD and photoshopped together...). Not really touched 1st edition yet... I have the campaigns book, but cant bring myself to chopping it up!

#Wonderdog

Vic
15-02-2007, 20:01
I have all the 2nd ed campaigns up (painstakingly razored out of WD and photoshopped together...). Not really touched 1st edition yet... I have the campaigns book, but cant bring myself to chopping it up!

#Wonderdog

I dont blame you, its an extremely rare tome :)

2_heads_talking
08-04-2007, 00:09
What's happened to Wonderdog's website? I tried to access it and couldn't get in. :confused:

Festus
10-04-2007, 08:10
You mean this one? http://www.spacehulk.co.nr/

Festus

2_heads_talking
15-04-2007, 00:59
That's it; wouldn't work for me for a few days.