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g0ddy
13-07-2005, 23:17
Yet another 2000 pt Wood Elf List - but hey atleast I am new.

Highborn - Alter Kindred with LA, a Greatweapon, Bow of Loren with Arcane Bodkins or Starfire Arrows, Annoyance of Netlings : 274 pts
Noble - General with LA, a Longbow, a Greatweapon and the Amber Pendant : 116 pts
Noble - Wildrider Kindred with LA, the Dawnspear and riding a Stag (elven steed) : 157 pts
Spellsinger - lvl 2 with a Longbow : 130 pts

Eternal Guard - 19 with Full Command : 258 pts
Dryads - 8 : 96 pts
Dryads - 8 : 96 pts
Dryads - 8 : 96 pts
Dryads - 8 : 96 pts

Wildriders - 9 with Full Command and a Warbanner : 295 pts
Tree Kin - 3 : 195 pts

Great Eagle : 50 pts

1859 pts in Total

Now I also have come up with a Alternate selection of Characters which comes to 1962 pts so theres some room to mess around with these. However I think I like the feel of the original set more and they also give better victory point distribution.

Highborn - Wildrider Kindred with Light armour and the Dawnspear, riding a Great Stag : 280 pts
Noble with Light armour, a Greatweapon and the Amber Pendant : 116 pts
Noble - Alter Kindred with Light armour, a Greatweapon, Helm of the Hunt and a Longbow with either Hail of Doom arrow or Starfire Arrows : 156 pts
Spellsinger - lvl 2 : 130 pts


Feel free to fiddle with things, but no dirastic changes, any feedback will be much appreciated... I know there is a problem with Magical Defence - this will be a Far cry from the neigh magically impenetrable HE infantry army I used to play. However I have never been a fan of scroll caddies - in fact have never even used a single dispell scroll in my WHFB career, the only logical solution I can see is a Spellweaver with the wych wand :/

Thanks,

- g0ddy

(EDITED : to update army list with changes)

zulusan
14-07-2005, 13:26
if you ask me you have to many points spend in char. - at least for a 2000 pts list. also i would split the wild riders.

but it is a free world. enjoy

Akuma
14-07-2005, 14:21
NEM - not enought meat - magic strong army ( VC , He , Empire and so on ) will make fun of you then magic missile you to death.

g0ddy
14-07-2005, 19:23
Both your points.... I am well aware of already, I thought I covered that in my post :( Im trying to find a way to fix that! that is what I need your help with :D

A lot of points in Characters, yes - but somewhat required :/

The highborn is a Mr. Knowit/Doit all (hes mostly there to KILL heavy cavalry), the noble on foot being the general (self explainatory), the mounted noble adding some extra umpf to the Wildriders (additionaly some protection - the dawnspear, since they dont wanna get hit back in combat) and the mage... well you cant not have a mage :/

Eternal guard : big and beefy, stubborn with a rock solid hero (general) helping out
2x Dryads : Combat Support/Screening/Skirmisher and March Blocker Hunting
2x Glade Guard : a WE army without Glade Guard? :wtf:

Wildriders : Hack,Slash-Kill? some combat prowess perhaps? could possibly take on a not too specialize block infantry unit from the front (stay away from spearmen) but should try and flank.
Treekin : 3w t5 with 4+ armour and 5+ ward... need i say more? will guard the flank of the Eternal Guard

2x Greateagles : marchblocking, charge blocking/redirecting, mage hunting, skirmisher hunting, combat support AND ..... (after playing a foot slogging HE army, dont try and tell me these arent one of the best units an elf can have)

All that being said there "are" 73 models in the army which is somewhat smaller than ye olde HE foot slogger army of... lets see - 90 or so.

Anwyays Ill do a bit more "refining" and see what I can come up with.

- g0ddy

Akuma
14-07-2005, 19:46
A lot of points in Characters, yes - but somewhat required :/

Belive me Elves shouldnt put more then 550 pts in characters - see below if you still don't know why.


The highborn is a Mr. Knowit/Doit all (hes mostly there to KILL heavy cavalry)

The only problem is that one spell like uranons thunderbolt ( or any other that is not magical missile ) - and his tosted - no magical protection whatsoever and smart opponent will just refuse a chalange and grind him down by directing his attacks aginst you'r alter - go for amaranthine borche and keep him out of cc he wont survive any combat with this build up.


ternal guard : big and beefy, stubborn with a rock solid hero (general) helping out

I wouldnt call a guy with only NO as 3 S6 attacks Rock Solid - the thing that he and 2 eternal guard stricke first changes exactly nothing - if enemy character chalenges you - he will be dead in turn one and you losse stuborn then.

I would skipp nobel made the wild ridder a general - throw of the stag and go for horse - get the spear with KB and give him helm of the hunt for extra attack

g0ddy
14-07-2005, 22:54
Evidently we continue to see things differently, Akuma :/ I have however decided to drop the great stag aswell. (I still plan to use the model, because Im sure it'll look really hot)

You seem to be misunderstanding my intentions when I said "it was somewhat required". I don't come to an army and say "I want to spend XXX points on Characters", I come with a vision of how I want the characters and a number of key units to look/act, then I fill in the gaps to make things work.

Around these parts, we play with the "fixed" magic lores :/ Im well aware what the old Thunderbolt can do, but why bother when a single s5 comet can kill half my army in 1 shot? <--- yet another reason why we dont use those rules anymore. (we have a lot of elf lovers) When your start electro shocking mages, sniping characters with cannons and the like around these parts - you will very quickly run out of opponents.

Like any other sane person I would never accept a challenge with an unarmoured elf, that is what unit champions are for. My description of "rock hard" comes from the fact he has 3 ws6 s6 striking before his opponents to kill the 1 or 2 models standing infront of him. 90% odds are he'll never have anyone attack him :/ This also - like the dawnspear is much needed protection for his fellow elves in the unit, both of which seem like no brainer selections to me. (I will double check the effect of the spear when i get home, I remember it as any unit that suffers a unsaved wound from it suffers -1 to hit) If this proves to be incorrect, I will have to re-evaluate my position on the wildriders entirely - both the Noble and the Unit itself.

I toyed around with many different combinations for the Highborn, Annoyance of Netlings is there so something in my army can actually accept a challenge, he wont be issuing many himself. And once again if hes getting beat on by rank and file troops something has already gone terribly wrong, he cant have a good armoursave nor does he need one. I am however quite fond of the Oaken Armour - but alas the bow of loren and some nice magic arrows cost over half his point allowance :/

Earlier I mentioned that i had droped the great stag off the noble, I have also replaced both the units of glade guard with 8 man dryad units (ive decided the glade guard are officially hideous models :/) - this has left me with just under 100 pts to spend.

Im considering dropping a Great Eagle aswell, and purchasing myself a unit of 6 wardancers along with either Calaingor's Staff for the mage or perhaps *shudder* a dispell scroll.

Any other options or setups you guys can think of that I may have overlooked, please feel free to voice them accordingly :)

Thanks again,

- g0ddy

(EDIT: ive updated hte main post with the new list)

zulusan
14-07-2005, 23:22
i agree with you that it is a against the spirit of the game to say i will spend xxx points on characters. but nevertheless there are so many options in the new list and so many different people out there - so what do we get - a lot of armies witch are not the same. i like it :)

okay enough of this philosophical ******** we are posting because we want to kick ass with our undefeatable armies! :chrome:

i think that your changed list should do pretty well. and yeah - i think one graet eagle is enough - use the points somewhere else.

just to compere - here is my list i am thinking about:

spellweaver-lvl4
ranus heartstone, glamourweave (not sure about this one), 1x d.scroll
325.-

waywatcher noble
pagent of shriekes
149.-

wardancer noble
blades of loec
145.-

CORE:

10 g.g.
120.-

10 g.g.
120.-

5 scouts
85.-

8 dryads
96.-

8 dryads
96.-

SPECIAL:

5 wild riders ( mus., stand.)
148.-

5 wild riders ( mus., stand.)
148.-

7 wardancer (mus., cham.)
147.-

3 treekin
195.-

RARE:

7 waywatcher (cham.)
176.-

1 great eagle
50.-

total - 2000.-
cp:6
dd:4
models:72
1 dispel scroll

g0ddy
15-07-2005, 04:53
I myself am not a big fan of the Waywatcher heros... the fact u lose Lethal Shot when uyour using a magic bow or arrows.. its kinda silly :/ your paying a lot of points for it :(

I do however like the prospect of a wardancer hero w/ blades of loec rerolling failed KB's :p

- g0ddy

zulusan
15-07-2005, 09:13
the waywatcher hero only has a spite - no magic bow or anything

g0ddy
15-07-2005, 16:30
Yeah, I noticed that - I just mean your paying a lot of points for something that isnt really very effective without the use of magic arrows or a bow...

(for the record i double checked the effect of the dawnspear, and yes - I was correct, the entire enemy unit suffers a -1 to hit penalty after suffering a single unsaved wound against any member of the unit.)

I came up with a few options for my own list last night - all of which are in addition to the updated list above :

Option A : + 6 wardancers, calaingor's staff for the spellsinger : 1992 pts

Option B : +1 Tree Kin and 4 more Eternal Guard (23+1 = 6x4), calaingor's staff for the spellsinger : 1997 pts

Option C: +1 Tree Kin and bring back the 2nd great eagle, calaingor's staff for the spellsinger : 1999 pts

Any feedback would be much appreciated :)

- g0ddy

zulusan
15-07-2005, 17:19
hi again,
for your new options: me i personly like the +6 wardancer idee.
i just think they could kick asses and also bring the most additional minis on the board.

for my waywatcher hero, i can understand your point but i think that the spite will work fine in mage or warmachine hunting - i also was thinking on giving the hero the hunters talon as an extra assassin tool. but this would cost additional points and he would lose his kb bow - witch you have payed before by giving him the waywatcher kindred. so far so good.

cheers

Akuma
15-07-2005, 17:24
Ok I'm beck - tell me what will you use to acctualy INFLICT Damage to the enemy ??? You have lods of dryads - but thay wont winn any combat by themselves ( not aginst +5 CR from the start units - ranks standar outnumber ).

You have only 2 units that can support them - namly wild ridders and treekin and both of them are extreamly valnurable to magic and you dont even have disspell scroll :/ .

The 20 strong Eternal Guard unit looks like sad joke to me - 1 great ( only ) target for things like mortar , scrap lunchers , flame cannons and stuff. With t3 and 5+ as thay will die very , very fast.

You also don't have a battle plan - and if you do what is it then ??? Attack him with uber expensive unit of wild ridders and prey that he doesnt flee ??? Or pray that you don't meet with undead ???

The whole problem is that you just put in the stuff you like and that appels to you and now you'r trying to make as all belive that it will work. Well as a general of 5 armys ( chaos , empire , ogres , vc , wood elfs ) I can say that you would struggle not to get masaccrated by any of the roosters i use - and i tell it to you not because i want to be rude to somebody or something - You want a oppinion - i give it to you - go try this army out with proxys and then write a battle rep here ( with the exact your opponent list ) and then well see.

g0ddy
15-07-2005, 19:10
The whole problem is that you just put in the stuff you like and that appels to you and now you'r trying to make as all belive that it will work. Well as a general of 5 armys ( chaos , empire , ogres , vc , wood elfs ) I can say that you would struggle not to get masaccrated by any of the roosters i use - and i tell it to you not because i want to be rude to somebody or something - You want a oppinion - i give it to you - go try this army out with proxys and then write a battle rep here ( with the exact your opponent list ) and then well see.

Evidently Akuma, the groups of people we play with are completely different... suprise, surprise!

The whole problem is that you only do things that "work". I'm not trying to force my oppinion on anyone - an opinion that which you clearly dont agree with, but your the only one.

Forgive me for being an ass, but from your posts - you have described yourself as the exact type of player I would typically avoid playing against. I'm building an army that looks presentable on the tabletop, has some flavour and generally looks nice - then Im changing things that just completely do not work. This doesn't mean the army is completely unviable and I will be wavying the little white flag by turn 2. Im not building a powerful army to crush my opponents - I am building an army that I will enjoy playing. As far as your comment about your "generalship" and "experience" - please go wave your e-peen somewhere else.

If you want to continue to contribute to this discussion, may I suggest you change your attitude about it and stop just saying "This is bad, it will never work! do this instead beacuse this is how I do it!"

Now, back on topic :

1. The dryads are NOT the main combat units, the Tree Kin and the Wildriders are NOT support units - the other way around. (Well the Tree Kin sort of are...)

Im fully expecting at least half the dryads to get completely trashed while screening the eternal guard and tree kin.

2. Elf Infantry dies really fast? holy crap ! Ive played elves before - I am well aware of how easily t3 and 5+ armour gets trashed, I think we all do.

Just because my opponent MIGHT have a mortar? or MIGHT have a flamecannon? etc - does this mean "Oh noes! He will blow me up! I can't have any t3 5+ infantry blocks! They will be useless!" .....

This isn't going to deter me from taking an absolutely fantastic unit! and they look amazing to boot!

ws5 i5 ld9 Core infantry? that fight in 2 ranks and models in BtB count as having 2 hand weapons? While still retaining a "respectable" (for an elf) 5+ armour save. And wow! they are stubborn to boot! all for only 12 pts per model? how can anyone say no :S

Please come fight me! you will pay dearly for everyone of us you kill. (6 wide with Noble as above : 12 ws5 i5 s3 attacks, and 3 ws6 s6 "always going first" attacks. Sure, flank me with fast cav! I dont care, Im stubborn - Your only going to give me even more kills once those glaives start spinning.

This unit has so many completely mind boggling combat possibilities, I cant turn it down. (Uh oh, it "might" get blown away by a direct hit from a mortar - well too bad for me) Did I mention the models are hot?

3. Im not building any army that will work perfectly, in the EXACT same manner against all opponents... no one could? Why would I have a static battleplan - wait maybe I do, but does that matter? No, probably not.

Thanks again, hopefully I won't have to lash out at anyone else :rolleyes: ;)

- g0ddy

Akuma
15-07-2005, 22:22
Evidently Akuma, the groups of people we play with are completely different... suprise, surprise!

Yeah - we always come in the top 10 of every tournament ....


an opinion that which you clearly dont agree with, but your the only one.

This build up is just to silly to comment :D


you have described yourself as the exact type of player I would typically avoid playing against. I'm building an army that looks presentable on the tabletop, has some flavour and generally looks nice - then Im changing things that just completely do not work

You can't avoid me in a tournament can you ??? ...


Im not building a powerful army to crush my opponents - I am building an army that I will enjoy playing

If you enjoy loosing to balanced not overpowered rosters :D ...


1. The dryads are NOT the main combat units, the Tree Kin and the Wildriders are NOT support units - the other way around. (Well the Tree Kin sort of are...)

How can 3 large beses unit be a main combat unit :/ - do you'r maths and see how will it fer off aginst any ranked infantry unit.


Just because my opponent MIGHT have a mortar? or MIGHT have a flamecannon? etc - does this mean "Oh noes! He will blow me up! I can't have any t3 5+ infantry blocks! They will be useless!" .....

Blocks - yes - one Block - it's suiacide - he will target it will everything just because he doesn't have better targets ( exept for wildridders - but for any shooty army taking them both down won't be a problem).


ws5 i5 ld9 Core infantry? that fight in 2 ranks and models in BtB count as having 2 hand weapons? While still retaining a "respectable" (for an elf) 5+ armour save. And wow! they are stubborn to boot! all for only 12 pts per model? how can anyone say no :S

Yes on paper thay look good - but I've asked what exactly are you plan to do with them - enemy will have 3-4 combat units and you have how many ??? 2 ~ 3 ??? With the proper build up EG are usable but not in this kind of list.


Please come fight me! you will pay dearly for everyone of us you kill. (6 wide with Noble as above : 12 ws5 i5 s3 attacks, and 3 ws6 s6 "always going first" attacks

No you will die very fast and run in the first turn - typical scenario - he put's a cavalery unit aginst you'r EG with his own hero inside. he chalanges you hero - he hits you on 4+ wounding on 2+ you get no as - you hit him on 3+ wound on 2+ but here comes the diffrence - he gets 4+ as and possibly has a word sv - this is you'r typical emperial hero :/ in cheep cavalry unit and it cost cheeper then you EG unit :/ - i could multiply the examples of this kind but it's pointless. One nobel is dead - unit isn't stubborn and you go home.


3. Im not building any army that will work perfectly, in the EXACT same manner against all opponents... no one could? Why would I have a static battleplan - wait maybe I do, but does that matter? No, probably not.

The problem is that it's just sad build up and it wont work aginst most opponents - thats the main problem.


To sum things up - i recon form you'r posts - that you are not tournament player and you just want to have fun with the cool looking models of new WE army - thats good - and that you'r friends also build lists that are not unbalanced and all that - thats nice too. Have fun and grow up :D - you post rooster in this forum to get another people oppinions not to argue with them - if you have fixed idea of what you want - why bother to ask anyone if it's going to work ??? If you can't take criticism - Don't ask for it

Cheers

g0ddy
15-07-2005, 22:34
Thanks for proving my point for me, Akuma.

It is both a waste of my time and everyone elses time for me to continue to attempt to explain things to you. However since you continue to disregard any direction I give you or any description of what I am doing - please follow my previous directions and have a nice day.

As my last act of spite towards you I offer you what would REALLY happen if a unit of empire cavalry + a captain were charge said unit of Eternal Guard.

*** hypothetical battle here ***

putting all outside events aside. (highborn mowing down the entire unit of knights in 2 turns, uber kill death mortar of doom annihilating the entire unit of eternal guard in one shot) Both units are relatively close in points cost so we can ignore that aswell.

First things first, we are obviously dealing with an inexperienced empire player (hes charging a unsupported unit of knights head long into stubborn block infantry w/ spears). Now he has 2 options, since I have seen him line up his charge - my noble is no longer standing infront of his captain.

Option A : he cant attack the noble directly (smart thing to do - not challenge as suggested by Akuma) so he attempts to lul the noble into a challenge. This is a very bad idea for two reasons. Firstly, he knows I wont accept the challenge unless I can win it or atleast think I can (but he also knows, that if he has any hope of beating this unit he needs to kill the noble to remove the stubborn), so he either has his Captains ass handed back to him by some.. "beardy" WE character hunting combos or he gets to beat down on the unit champion and gain nothing.
Option B : he choose to simple attack the Eternal Guard - and gain nothing.
(Lose / Lose situation, Option A being a slightly better option - atleast he gets to kill the Unit Champion)

We will now assume option A has occured and the Empire Captain is in a challenge with the Unit Champion.

So the captain has 3 attacks, ws5 vs ws5, 1.5 hits - we can assume he wounds and kills the champion.

3 Knights attack (4th knight is in BsB w/ Noble and is striking last) 3 attacks, 1.5 hits, another Eternal Guard dies

4 Warhorses attack, 2 hits, 1 wound - since there is some excess dmg from the knights we can assume this eternal guard fails his save.

Empire - 3 kills, 1 rank, standard and we can even throw in a warbanner because the knights need the help.

The "poincy" Elves get to attack now. (champion dead, 2 eternal guard dead)
1 eternal guard in base + 5 in 2nd rank for 7 attacks = 5 hits, 2/3 wounds - chances are they wont kill anything) The noble attacks, 3 attacks = 2 hits. 2 wounds, the knight who hasnt attacked yet falls dead.

Now for combat resolution (quite an uneventful fight, not very much killing so far)

Empire 6 pts (including a freebee warbanner)
Eternal Guard : 1 kill, 3 ranks, standard and outnumber for 6 points aswell.
Tie Combat.

Round Two, now its the elves turn to cause some pain.

Instead of rolling off for initiative between the Captain and the Elves we will just make attacks with both going at the "same time"

The elves, 4 in base (8 attacks) + 5 in rank 2 (13 in total) : 9 hits - 4/5 wounds, probably one dead knight.

The captain attacks and kills 1 elf (3 attacks, 1/2 hits, 1 kill)

1 Knight attacks (3 in front rank, 1 dead, 1 striking last) between him and his horse we can say they probably kill an elf.

WE Noble attacks again and kills the knight in BtB.

Combat Res :
Empire : 2 kills, standard, warbanner : 4
Elves : 2 kills , 2 ranks, standard, outnumber : 6

If we leave the Warbanenr out of the equation here, the knights will most likely break from combat, however as it stands they are fighting a losing battle.

*** END hypothetical battle here ***

Till we meet again, my phoenetically typing little friend.

Now hopefully the other folks who are reading this can just ignore the last few posts and continue with the discussion.

- g0ddy

fubukii
17-07-2005, 01:53
hmmm i made a WE list recently i forget where iput it at though but here is a rough idea of what it was

2k wood elf
high Born, Wardancer, Netlings, Blades of loec, i forget 3rd item name off hand ^.^
2 lvl 2 mages 4 dispell scrolls.

Core
20 eternal guard - stand/mus War banner.
20 eternal Guard - stand mus
10 scouts
10 dryads

SPecial
3 Treekin
3 warhawk riders (march blockers/warmachine killers)

Rare
10 way wacthers

There is more but thats the general layout of the army offhand. When i find the paper i wrote the list on ill put exactly what it was.

But basically use the eternal guard for CR bonuses and mass attacks, use treekin to flank etc etc same with dryads.

g0ddy
17-07-2005, 18:48
Be careful, Akuma might bark at you for not having the same army he uses ;)

I look forward to seeing what the rest of the army is made up of... some wardancers perhaps ? seems a bit odd to have a wardancer highborn but no wardancers :p a bit more detail could be useful aswell

You look to have around 150 pts still to spend, perhaps a bit more.

For myself, I have opted to use Great Eagles instead war hawks, simply because of the fact - when you get charged by a block unit, if you are a skirmisher like warhawks, you align to them but when your a great eagle he aligns to you as normal.

Both units perform the same task, Great Eagles somewhat cheaper but using a rare slot - however you cant effectively charge block/redirect overruns with warhawks :)

- g0ddy

fubukii
17-07-2005, 22:33
well i dont play wood elves by any means i just put together a semi decent combat list. I play A Undead Summoning horde (considered a cheesey overpowered list). Sometimes if i get bored of that ill throw in a vampire or 2.

I think wood elves can do well in combat if you can support your units properly. Treekin are just amazing

g0ddy
18-07-2005, 03:39
Couldn't agree more :) - im an old VC player myself, von castein's all the way :p

oh and blood dragons are junk :) *cough*

- g0ddy

Lord Anathir
18-07-2005, 19:36
@ zulusan

I dont believe magic is the way to go with woodies. Look at the other elvish armies. I think 2 lvl 1 scroll caddies is the way to go with woodies...but then again im not sure. (thats what im doing). However, woodies will be simply slaughtered by magic missiles. The only reason i dont have more then 4DD and 3 scrolls is because ive got tons of mage hunting units (warhawks, great eagle, waywatches, teleporting lord).

Lord Anathir
18-07-2005, 19:38
@ goddy

when choosing between ge and warhawks, you have to remember that warhawks negate ranks, where as great eagles dont. So warhawks in the rear of a unit gets +2 CR and negates ranks.

g0ddy
19-07-2005, 01:07
Interesting, perhaps I should look into that flying cavalry rule some more...

Normally it would be the other way around, all other flying units are skirmishers - great eagles are more like flying ogres and in a pair do however negate ranks.

If warhawks truly do negate ranks and/or preform the charger blocking function (though id rather throw away a 50 pt eagle than a 120 pt unit of hawks), then perhaps they warrant some more intrest.

(edit : just checked the book, all the flying cav rule does is make them US 2 and give them +1 armour save, unfortunately they are still a unit of flyers - thus skirmishers and skirmishers do NOT negate ranks. And yes great eagles do still negate ranks when there is 2 or more of them to gain US5 (they are US 3 each))

- g0ddy

Lord Anathir
19-07-2005, 02:53
oh...my bad then. I was reading about an article compairing warhawks with terradons and the author said that warhawks negated ranks... but i suppose ur right.

g0ddy
19-07-2005, 04:26
No need to Apologize :D

Imho, terradons are better than warhawks.. justbeacuse they have more attacks :/ cheaper too that is :/

- g0ddy

Lord Anathir
19-07-2005, 16:17
Actually, I meant that warhawks have the unit strength to get a rear or flank bonus (US 6). I know that 2 great eagles also do the same thing, but usually, eagles are else where, ones hunting a mage, the otehr a warmachine....and with wood elfs, u cant even take 2 for one rare choice.

about the warhawks, i thought so as well...but check out this link....it pretty much summarizes everything comparing warhawks and terradons.

http://s6.invisionfree.com/TheRainingGlade/index.php?showtopic=1094&st=0&#last

btw...can you plz take a look at my own wood elf army list...its in this forum. Ive got a couple of hits but not a single reply.

g0ddy
19-07-2005, 19:43
Ill go hunt it down when I get a chance :) Anathir.

Im also checking out that thread - I do invact have some experience playing lizzies too :D

Sadly Id be more enclined ot use warhakws... if they weren't surfing... if they weren't wearing 'hoods' (the hawks that is - blinders or some such).

(Edit : some nots on the terradon vs. warhawk threads

Terradon Javelins are in fact s4 :) maybee more later)

- g0ddy

Lord Anathir
20-07-2005, 00:30
true say...tell you the truth...i really dont like the warhawk models. And apart from the fact that they are expensive $wise....i have to buy them, cuz they're just essential....