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Court
13-01-2007, 20:51
I've poked around and ppl seem to generally think Beastmen are a good army. One of our players has started one and we can't wrap our heads around it.

The only problem comes with the restriction of 4 wide ranking when the skirmishing unit forms up. Is this still a ruling for the herds? Was it ever in the first place? hehe

And Ambush as a rule, has it been altered for 7th at all? Haven't seen a Beastmen FAQ or errata from GeeDub. If a herd comes on like from chargin off, that gives the opponent a turn to 180 his warmachines and blast the herd apart.

Obviously we may be missing simple points but this is the first Beastmen army in the area or that any of us has actually played hehe. (odd considering the tourney and travel alot of us have done)

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Slayhem
13-01-2007, 21:09
Sounds like something for the rules subforum. :)

Murderous Monkey
13-01-2007, 21:32
Beastmen have a minimum herd width of 4 - other than this they rank up identically to other skirmishers. The result is that herds suffer when fighting lone characters or chariots. Against units they will commonly form up at least 5 wide and consequently gain their rank bonus.

Some people 'house rule' this to mean beast herds always rank up at least 5 wide - personal choice.

Not sure about ambush and I haven't got a book handy but if you're right and the enemy can spend an entire turn shooting the beast herds/warhounds then that can only be good for the rest of your army! Also, you don't need to use the rule - you can always keep them as skirmish/warhound screens in front.

kyussinchains
13-01-2007, 21:59
this is one of the two rules 'paradoxes' that was mentioned when 7th edition came out, the other being something to do with bretonnians, I'd stick to the letter of the book on this one, meaning they dont get a rank bonus, it doesnt make sense, but nor to many of the rules which are there to make the game 'balanced' and 'fair'

druchii
13-01-2007, 22:23
this is one of the two rules 'paradoxes' that was mentioned when 7th edition came out, the other being something to do with bretonnians, I'd stick to the letter of the book on this one, meaning they dont get a rank bonus, it doesnt make sense, but nor to many of the rules which are there to make the game 'balanced' and 'fair'

Keep in mind, Beastherds ONLY rank up to four models or less, when the opponent they are fighting has a small enough frontage to disallow them fromranking up further.

That is, against an opposing unit with five(20mm) bases in the front rank, the beastmen would rank up five wide(or more) and get rank bonuses up to 2+. The ONLY time they rank up to four models is if they're brawling with an enemy who has a frontage smaller than 75mm(chariots, monsters, etc.)

Also, beastmen MOVE ONTO THE board in the "remaining moves" phase(which is AFTER the declare charges phase). And ambush is awesome. It isn't just about whacking your opponents warmachines(which they either do, or they force him to waste a turn of shooting on an inexpensive, core unit.) They also count as for the new "crossfire" rules. Very useful to pop a herd on the table behind a cavalry unit, while your dragon ogres charge them inthe front (hold, and take the charge fromthe DOs, or flee and be destroyed by the herd!).

d

kyussinchains
13-01-2007, 22:25
perhaps I was unclear, my mistake, I was saying that you should stick to the letter of the book, if you would normally rank up less than 4 models wide, rank them up 4 wide, meaning you dont get a rank bonus.

obviously they rank up 5+ wide 95% of the time, but there are the odd times when wont (when charging war machine crew for example) in that case they should go 4 wide, letter of the rules, it will probably be sorted out soon anyway

Court
14-01-2007, 04:53
Nope thats awsome, got things cleared up. There was some confusion over the wideingin of the unit for combat purposes. Thanx alot all!

Makaber
14-01-2007, 12:35
It seems it was quite intentional that GW didn't update the 4-wide rule. Seemingly it was to balance out the fact that Ambush has become quite a bit more lethal now, with the crossfire rule. I haven't played my beasts a lot since 7th edition came out, but I don't think the 4-wide thing is that much of a handicap. As stated, it only comes into play in very spesific scenarios, and those are normally situations where the herd would be quite hosed in the first place, rank bonus or not.

The Ambush rule has not changed at all. And yes, be very careful when ambushing warmachines, especially cannons (nasty grapeshot), Helblaster, Repeater/Reaper bolt throwers, and anything else that can inflict several hits on the unit.