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x-esiv-4c
14-07-2005, 17:30
Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone has any "Chaos Ad-mech" fluff. Apparently a lot of them switched over during the heresey and i'm trying to gather some info on them, are they as pious to a god as the regular ad-mech is?

Thanks!

Lord-Warlock
14-07-2005, 17:50
I believe the second Horus Heresy book has bits on them. They're called Dark Mechanicus, apparently.

cpl_hicks
14-07-2005, 18:10
also in the novel IRON HANDS there is some info on them not much

Brusilov
14-07-2005, 18:57
They are indeed called the Dark Mechanicus, and as to whether they worship a Chaos version of the Machine God is still unanswered, as far as I'm aware. However I would say that they do, there are plenty of minor Chaos powers. Personally I believe Obliterators and Raptors are akin to Berzerkers, Nois Marines, Plague Marines and Sorcerers for each of the major gods, cultists of a few of the minor powers.
If you want a good comparison you could try to dig out information on Hashut, the god of the Chaos Dwarfs in WH.

On the Dark Mechanicus itself, they seem to love to mix technology and warpcraft, creating possessed machines of destruction. IIRC monstrosities like the Planet Killer and the Defiler are built by the Dark Mechanicus.

Puffin Magician
14-07-2005, 19:02
They seem to love to mix technology and warpcraft, creating possessed machines of destruction.
I guess it's safe to assume then that they're the ones who maintain [or feed, depending on how you look at it] the myriad of Daemon Engine types, and develop new ones like the Defiler as you said. They also crew the hundreds of Titans that betrayed humanity and fell to Chaos.

What about Chaos Ordinatii? The Chaos Gods, Khorne in particular, would be very pleased with some giant tracked device spewing flame and blasting warpfire around.

Brusilov
14-07-2005, 19:17
From what I've seen and read about Chaos Titans, it seems they can take care of themselves. Basically they don't have a crew, they are possessed by a powerful daemon that has probably fused with the machine spirit and corrupted it utterly. Just look at the cockpit of the FW Chaos Titan (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/chaostitan2.htm)

And it's pretty certain they also have Ordinatus lying around and they are also probably in charge of the daemon engines. They probably also get help from the infamous Chaos Squats... :evilgrin: (and they can't have been eaten by Nids, they're safe away in the EoT)

x-esiv-4c
14-07-2005, 19:20
I'd like to see a chaos-admech list before a regular imperial one. Can you imagine what kind of crazy models they would have? Totally mutated daemon-engines more crazed the the Defiler ( look at the death-dealer from epic ). Chaos Ordinatus would be totally kickass! Imperial gear is infused with the machine spirit but is chaos engines infused with a machine spirit too as well as a daemon?

Hideous Loon
14-07-2005, 19:25
No, I don't think so. The Daemon possessing the machine should destroy, out of arrogance if nothing else, the Machine Spirit. Why? Because the Daemon is in its own sense more than capable of dealing with all the little fiddlyness included into steering a big machine of destruction.

Brusilov
14-07-2005, 19:34
It is probable that the Daemon either fuses or devours the machine spirit just like he would devour the soul of a living being. He probably has access to his knowledge, without the incovenient of sharing the machine with the spirit.

x-esiv-4c
14-07-2005, 19:40
What I would like to see is different magnitudes of daemonic infestation. Perhaps there should be a difference of infusing a machine with a lesser daemon with respect to a daemon prince or something like that.

Inquisitor Samos
14-07-2005, 19:49
It is probable that the Daemon either fuses or devours the machine spirit just like he would devour the soul of a living being. He probably has access to his knowledge, without the incovenient of sharing the machine with the spirit.
I think it's possible that in some cases the corrupted Machine Spirit actually becomes a daemon.......

There are background materials on how bloodthirsty the Machine Spirits of the Dreadclaws became, which lead to their being declared Perdita, for example. Admittedly this doesn't have clear details on what happened, but there's at least a hint that they slowly became more malefic as time went on, rather than suddenly seeming to change into something daemonic.

And that "lovely" (from a literary standpoint) description of the Machine Spirit of Cruor Vult found early on in the 3rd of the "Eisenhorn" trilogy, Hereticus...... that's clearly daemonic!

Brusilov
14-07-2005, 21:27
On the matter of the Dreadclaw, this has probably something to do with the idea in the Mechanicus that some designs have psychic flaws that allow daemons to possess them or in the case of ships make their Geller fields weaker, meaning they're lost in the Warp more often. Such designs are abandoned because of the danger they represent.

Khaine's Messenger
14-07-2005, 21:30
Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone has any "Chaos Ad-mech" fluff. Apparently a lot of them switched over during the heresey and i'm trying to gather some info on them, are they as pious to a god as the regular ad-mech is?

Thanks!

I don't know. The more I hear of the Dark Mechanicum, the more I see them as the prime movers of the rumored Dragon Cult, as the DM were a noted to be a resurgent sect of AdMech personnel who believed that the Emperor was not the Omnissiah, and the Machine God was still buried somewhere on Mars, or somesuch. But then that makes problems with the whole fact that they are said to be chaos-tainted in some way...perhaps lured in with promises of restoring the "True Mechanicum" (much as Horus promised a new and glorious Imperium) but then suckered off of the true path by the whimsy of Chaos.....

As to their piety? I would imagine it would be a mishmash of factors. They would be as petty and unemotional as their Imperial brethren, but their practice would most likely be divorced from any "moral" standard held dear by the Imperium (after all, the quasi-philosophy of the AdMech is the Quest for Knowledge, and some more experieced Magi will actually give thought to turning to daemons [carefully] for some knowledge; I imagine the Dark Mechanicum would be even more inhuman than the AdMech we all know and love...subhuman, perhaps...)...so no "moral crime" is too great to put past them in the "pursuit of science." :chrome:

Puffin Magician
14-07-2005, 22:15
Chaos Titans seem to take care of themselves.
I can't believe that every Chaos Titan has possessed crew. There's bound to be bog-standard Imperial Titans that are simply... evil [like Chaos Undivided, Traitor Guard, etc] and I think that there's quite a few of them. They appear in the Epic lists as Feral and Ravager Titans [for Warhounds and Reavers, respectively]. I also believe that there are Titans owned by the Iron Warriors and Black Legion, the IW ones especially would not likely be possessed.


The Daemon possessing the machine should destroy, out of arrogance if nothing else, the Machine Spirit.
Would that matter? Daemons successfully possess all sorts of vehicles, Machine Spirit or no Machine Spirit. IMO the Machine Spirit itself is just some rudimentary AI that the AM believes is the soul of the construct and is required for it to work, so I don't think that the Daemon consuming it would be much of a bother.


Perhaps there should be a difference of infusing a machine with a lesser daemon with respect to a daemon prince or something like that.
There's a difference in Epic40k, at least. Tzeentchian Warp Palaces [big Silver Towers] and Khornate Lords of Battle are each possessed by a Greater Daemon and have rules to reflect it [It counts as a Greater Daemon except the different statline, and the Warp Palace gets a ton of psychic powers; check it out here (http://netepic.org/NETEPIC/html/army.htm) if you're interested].


I'd like to see a chaos-admech list before a regular imperial one.
You fiend! Delete that post at once!

Jaq Draco
16-07-2005, 13:49
If i remember right, for the fluff for the creation of Defilers

it was a sorceror of Tzeentch bringing it all together not a Chaos AdMech,
hmm maybe GW trying to erase this concept

along with a lot of the older stuff

Lord-Warlock
16-07-2005, 18:36
If GW had tried to erase the concept bets are they wouldn't have invented it *after* the Defiler came out...

Unless you mean the opposite, in which case it's perfectly possible that a Tzeentch Sorcerer led the Dark Mechanicus-ers, or that he/she was one of them.

Rabid Bunny 666
16-07-2005, 19:21
check the HH books, they are the dark mechanicus, nice and simple :D

Talkie Toaster
16-07-2005, 19:59
Unless you mean the opposite, in which case it's perfectly possible that a Tzeentch Sorcerer led the Dark Mechanicus-ers, or that he/she was one of them.
The Dark Mechanicus' and the Thousand Sons quests for knowledge dovetail neatly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Dark Mechanicus spent a lot of time working with them (possibly even more than with the IW, although the IW may resent the Dark Ad Mech trying to give advice, they seem to have slightly more obstructive personality flaws than the Sons).

Brusilov
16-07-2005, 22:11
There is some information on the interaction between the Iron Warriors and some cult or other of the Dark Mechanicus in Black Sun, Dead Sky. It's relatively interesting... There is also some stuff in Storm of Iron IIRC, about the technovirus of the Obliterators.

Inquisitor S.
17-07-2005, 17:40
Basically they don't have a crew
Well, in the Titan Comic books it is totally clear, that (at leat some) Chaos Titans have a crew, as they disembark from their own immobilized titan and attack and try to take over "Imperius Dictatio".