View Full Version : Ask the Commissar

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14-07-2005, 19:11
Back on Portent, I started a thread where people could ask quick questions on specific fluff matters and I (or other knowledgable people) would answer it.
The idea was also to get a double view on the question: that of the Imperium (or another race if applicable) and a more "objective" view (but still open for interpretation).

The idea could be also to work on answers for a new fluff FAQ, trying to see which questions keep being asked and giving them a neutral solution.

Here are a few general principles for asking a question in this thread:
1) Ask only specific and precise question like: when was the Emperor born? Who are the other two C'tan? Where did Eldrad die? What is the Legion of the Damned? Who are the Iron Men?
2) Avoid broad questions or requests like: tell me the history of the Imperium
3) Keep your questions factual. This thread is about sharing information, interpretation is welcome but should be kept to a minimum
4) If a topic sparks discussion (always good), it should be moved to its own thread
5) Questions asked in character are welcome but this is not an absolute rule
6) I'll try (and I invite other people to do so as well) to give two answers, the Imperium's and a more neutral answer from a more or less objective standpoint (but probably not free of interpretation)

The general idea of the thread is something akin to "Ask Aunt Abigael" type of thing, except you're asking a trigger-happy Commissar (I reject all responsability for summary execution). :rolleyes: ;)

So ask away...

14-07-2005, 19:23
Dear most revered commisar,
I have heard mention several times of a Xenos race going by the name of the "Ancient Slann", my request is that I recieve a very basic overview of this races signifigance.

Hideous Loon
14-07-2005, 19:23
Dear Commissar,

I will ask you who the Golden Men were. Is it true, as someone else told me, that they were "the brainboyz of human society"? Or is that completely false?

14-07-2005, 19:39
Dear McBeaner

The Slann are an ancient race that, according the Adepts of the Mechanicus, have devolved. They currently tend to shut themselves away from the rest of the galaxy. It seems they used to have a great empire at some point before the rise of our great Imperium but some catastrophe caused its collapse.

More objective view: the Old Ones, also known as Ancient Slann or simply Slann, are in 40k probably the most ancient race of the galaxy (at least that we know of). Their empire existed roughly 60 million years before our time. They are responsible for the seeding of life on many planets (possibly even our own) and the creation of many races: Eldar, Orks, Jokaero...
They fought a cataclysmis war against the Necrontyr and the C'tan, which they lost, because their manipulation of the warp unleashed a race called the Enslavers who plagued psykers and enthrall people. This probably caused the collapse of the Slann civilisation (as they were powerful psykers) and forced the C'tan into slumber.
Devolved forms of the Old Ones survive to this day on backwater planets. GW advises using Lizardmen army from WH when representing them.

Dear loonie ;) ,
The Golden Men are an heresy invented by the Keeper Cripias. Thankfully the Inquisition purged, as far as I'm aware. Research into such heretical knowledge is frown upon.
Cripias argues that the Golden Men, superior to us in mind and body, led humanity to the stars and later disappeared, leaving the Stone Men to fend for themselves. He pretends that the Emperor was joined by them, possibly in guiding humanity in secret for some goal. If our great Emperor accepted to join with them or more probably lead them, they must not have been entirely evil.

More objective view: the Golden Men as human brain boyz is amusingly enough a theory that I share with a few people here (although they may have left with the end of Portent). Basically the whole idea is that when the Old Ones seeded worlds with life they left a recessive "Brain Boy" gene in all creatures. This gene would activate once the race reached sentience. The Brain Boyz would then serve as intermediaries between the OO and the rest of that species, probably allowing the OO to manipulate the race to their liking without having to reveal themselves.
With the disappearance of the OO, the human brain boyz were left to their own device and thus probably joined with the Emperor to get humanity to conquer the stars.
This also explain the existence of the Tau Etherals, they are the Tau brain boyz (I'll not dwell into the even more heretical theory of Tau as Necrontyr given a second chance...), and the Eldar Seers (or possibly their gods) are the Eldar brain boyz.

Kensai X
14-07-2005, 22:02
Dear Mighty and Exonerated Commissar,

What can you tell me about Corax and the mutations that went throughout his chapter? Did anything happen to these mutants and were they the cause of Corax to leave for the Eye of Terror?

14-07-2005, 22:19
Dear Sword Saint

Corax, much horrified by the mutations caused by the accelerated production of Marines in order to attemt to bring the Raven Guard back to combat strength, is known to have personally executed those abberant creatures which survived to the end of the Heresy (although dark rumours persist that these creatures were used as suicide assault troops for a time).

It is thought by some that the weight upon Corax's concience resulting from this, both from the creation of these unfortunate creatures and their later execution, may have contributed to his dissappearance. Beyond this information, sourced from their Index Astraties, there is little or no further information available, to the knowlege of the Ministry for Moral Truth.

15-07-2005, 03:30
Dear Commissar,
I have heard of the Jokaero several times but I know little about them except that they create weapons. Can you shine a torch on the for me please?


15-07-2005, 03:48
please share with us the fate of the sq.... squa..... squaaaa.....
(wow, they've been purged from history so well. its hard to get the name out of my mouth)
the Squats, yeah the short guys.

Delicious Soy
15-07-2005, 04:02
Dear Commissar,
I have heard of the Jokaero several times but I know little about them except that they create weapons. Can you shine a torch on the for me please?I can field this one, the Jokareo do make weapons, mainly minaturised versions that can be easily hissden as jewellery called Digi-Weapons. Jokareo are actually a very ancient race originally bred by the old ones to have the very specifc traits of replicating technology. In other words, they are capable of reverse engineering just about anything. It seems that the Imperium tolerates them a lot more than other species (probably because of their capabilities of minaturisation, plus I've never heard of Jokareo waging war on anyone).

In terms of appearance, they look very much like orangutans.

15-07-2005, 04:44
Added note on the Jokaero, they are sapians, intellegent apes. The Imperium is more likely to tolerate them as a 'nearly' human speices. :chrome:

On the Squats, it really varys with your sources. Many would claim that they were wiped out by a as yet unidentified hive fleet or an ork waaagh wiped them out.
However, if you look at the little information on the Deimurg (sp? Brusilov or Ministry can correct me there), it would appear that the Squats/Space Dwarfs have survived as migrating asteriod miners and traders. Deimurg ships are even called strongholds. Hope that helps kinda...

15-07-2005, 05:18
When did this Hive Fleet/Waagh/zombie-horde/whatever consume the Squat Worlds? Given a sufficiently long timespan between that and 'today', one might say that the Demiurg are the few surviving Squats' descendants, evolved in such a way that they are completely unrecognizable by the Imperium.

15-07-2005, 06:27
Dear Goblinardo,

I do not think there is information on the timeframe. But unless the Squats were killed by unmentionned forgotten hive fleet, it is relatively recent. It could not be Behemoth (it went straight for Macragge or so it seems), so it would probably be Kraken and thus date from roughly 993.M41.
So it would seem the Demiurgs, if they have any connection with the Squats, would Squats that were away from the homeworlds when the Nids attacked.
And it's pretty certain that it's Nids btw, there are reference in the novel Draco.


Dear marinowar,

People have pretty much said everything on the matter of the Jokaero. I would only add that their sentience is up to question. You cannot get to do something to do, they will not obey orders and if you emprison them, they'll build things to escape.

15-07-2005, 07:01
In terms of appearance, they look very much like orangutans.

You cannot get to do something to do, they will not obey orders and if you emprison them, they'll build things to escape

Does anyone else see the Librarian from Unseen University fitting in just perfectly here?

Thanx muchly Delicious Soy and Brusilov

15-07-2005, 07:43
Dear Comissar,

I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject of criteria used by the Imperium regarding which species are to be immediately exterminated and whih are tolerated.

While the line with abhumans is quite well developed and the differing oppinions are evident from official sources, the way in which the line between sentient xenos, which are exterminated (for example Tyranid abominations), and non-sentient xenos, which are apparently widely tolerated and at times even exported to to other worlds (for example the Grox).

15-07-2005, 12:22
Simply a matter of survival for the imperium, some species are non-threatening, and can be used as livestock, beasts of burden or for other, specialised tasks.

Other species are more dangerous, and the imperium in it's own arrogant way, would rather exterminate them out of hand than avoid and monitor them in case they have useful traits that may be transplanted to other worlds. The imperium's position is basically mankind standing over the burning corpses of every other sentient race in the universe.

Then there are the species, like the tyrannid creatures, that are a real threat to the whole imperium unless they're dealt with.

15-07-2005, 13:36
Dear Commissar,
How many branches of the Adpetus are there?

15-07-2005, 14:26
Yes marineowar, the Librarian would fit right in.

Dear luris,

You did not specify whether you were talking about sentient species or just flora and fauna. So let me answer for both.
As per the Imperial Creed, it is mankind's manifest destiny to rule the stars, all of them, so any sentient species living on a planet is occupying, whether they know it or not Imperial land, and are to be exterminated for their trespassing.
The problem is that either the Imperium does not have the means to exterminate them (they're too big or tough like Orks, Eldar or even Tau) or they have bigger fish to fry (like how the Tau escaped because of the Nid invasion).
As to the wildlife, it depends on the purpose the planet is to have. If the Imperium intends to mine it, they'll probably strip mine it and move on. If they want to turn it into an Agri-world they will cover it with fields. Otherwise the flora and fauna are left alone, provided they are not dangerous to man.


Dear Tau scum of the Fire caste ;) ,

There are many branches in the Adeptus Terra of our most glorious Imperium: Adeptus Administratum, Adeptus Ministorum, Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Astra Telpathica, Adeptus Astronomica, Adeptus Arbites.
The Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus are nominally part of the Adeptus Terra but they have in fact a lot of autonomy.
The Adeptus Terra is headed by the twelve High Lords, each either the master of one of the Adepti or a senior member of a major branch (like the Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard).
The Officio Assassinorum and the Holy Orders of the Inquisition stand outside the Adeptus Terra. So does the Navis Nobilite, if simply because the Navigator Houses predates the Imperium.

Tom - Heretic
15-07-2005, 14:40
Ace. Glad to see this thread again :).

Dear Mr Commissar (please don't shoot me I didn't do it long live the emperor and bless his tissue paper);
What is the current status of enslavers? How rare are they, where do they appear and how much of a threat do they pose? Have there been any major incidents involving them since the "extinction" of the slaan?

15-07-2005, 14:46
Dear Mr. Comissar.

I have a stupid question and request a noble "no" from your mouth: Are there any references of the physical build or images of the "Old Ones" you could tell me ?

15-07-2005, 14:56
Why does the Dark Angels Deathwing involve itself in cleansing space hulks for Genestealers? Shouldn't they be out there hunting for the fallen or something?

15-07-2005, 17:03
Dear Tom,

On the matter of the Enslavers, they have been active since the end of the War in Heaven, although it probably diminished due to the lack of psykers. With mankind's emergence as a major psychic race it would not be surprising to see the number of Enslaver infestations rise up. They would probably appear where there are uncontrolled psykers, since this is their portal (literally) into our universe. Thus any untrained psyker is a potential Enslaver invasion.
I don't think there has been any major incident documented in my archives since the end of the War in Heaven. But that does not mean they have not attacked.


Dear Ikkaan,

I depends. Do you think the Ancient Slann from the Rogue Trader book are in fact the Old Ones. If, like me, you do, then there is documented evidence of their appearance (at least the appearance of their devolved form). Otherwise I don't think there is any reference to how they'd look.


Dear MidnightResistance,

Do you not believe it is the sacred duty of Space Marines to assist in the defence of the most hallowed Imperium? The Deathwing might have another agenda, but they're still Space Marines, and wearing Terminator armours on top of that. Thus they are put to good use in helping cleanse space hulks of Stealer presence. And who knows, clues about the Fallen have turned up in the weirdest places.
The Deathwing make it their duty to hunt the Fallen, but if they did not do their duty as Space Marines, at least from time to time, the Inquisition may decide to bypass the agreeement on the independence of SM Chapters and launch a full investigation, something the Deathwing members certainly wouldn't want.

15-07-2005, 18:27
Dear Commisar,

Why is it that when I enhanced the scope of my lasgun for better accuracy, my platoon sergeant reprimanded me?

Confused Infantryman

15-07-2005, 19:51
Dear moose,

There are several possibilities. First your sergeant may not like that you modify your equipment. Second he may fear that by modifying it you may anger the machine spirit as you are not a skilled technician, this could cause the failure of your gun in the most inopportune moment.
Remember "Look after your gear and it shall look after you."
Now please report to the nearest Commissariat representative for discussing your superior's order.

15-07-2005, 21:26
Dear commisar, How is it that gretchin are able to produce weapon of such caliber that they rival our fine imperial lasguns.. and on a more serious note what can you tell me of the current state of the heretic cypher and his followers who appear to have vanished from common knowledge since the 3rd editon chaos codex.. i heard he wast last sighted havng a run in with a c'tan can you confirm this? ( ditto for doomrider thoough i wasn;t sorry to see him go)

Khaine's Messenger
15-07-2005, 22:02
+++Dear "alterion":
+++"Grot blastas" are of an inferior make to anything available from Imperial arms manufacturers, so your assertion to the contrary leaves me at a loss for words at such an unspeakable impiety. The Doomrider is as unspeakable as any other daemon-thing, but has not appeared on many Imperial records for quite some time...perhaps masquerading as another entity, for such is the whimsy of the Great Enemy. As for "Cypher"...he is a nonexistant phantom.

Cypher's "C'tan phase knife" was reabsorbed by a C'tan, yeah (he now counts as having a power weapon in close combat because he "dual wields his pistols so well")...Cypher got a Heroes & Villians article, but the information included therein was not much very interesting. More recently, he's spent more time ticking off the DA in and around the Eye of Terror region...for example, stealing a store of Dark Angels geneseed from Piscina IV, or possibly masquerading as the "Voice of the Emperor"....he was captured by the Dark Angels (supposedly), but managed to escape mysteriously yet again.

There isn't much new background about the Doomrider, thankfully....

15-07-2005, 22:24
Dear alterion,

Like many things produced by Greenskins, they seem to defy the power of our techpriests to understand. It is probable that they make up for lack of reliability by sheer caliber of the weapon. That is not to say they are reliable weapons, quite the contrary.
Some more heretical techpriests have argued that Ork technology work thanks to the psychic potential of these creatures, although such apocryphal belief will probably get the attention of the Inquisition.

15-07-2005, 23:10
dear commsiar further to my last request i had understood that geneseed was held only on mars and on ++inquistion access denined++ of which recent rumors suggested had been over ruun my ironwarriors. however commisar kaine's post leaves me wondering if there are any more "hidden" genseed staches in the galaxy

Kensai X
16-07-2005, 01:02
Dear Venerable and Highly Esteemed Commissar,

What are the differences between the patterns of lasguns and bolters, as to me a lasguns a lasgun and a bolter is bolter I fail to see a difference.

Khaine's Messenger
16-07-2005, 02:45
+++All chapters maintain their own private stock of geneseed (often in their own, almost impregnable mini-fortresses tightly secured deep within whatever base of operations the chapter possesses; purportedly so that even if the base were destroyed, the geneseed would have a fighting chance of allowing the chapter to perpetuated itself). The aforementioned stockpile on Piscina IV was indeed located within the apothecarion of a Dark Angels fortress monastery, so it is not exactly out of the ordinary. It should be noted, however, that these geneseed stocks are nowhere near as vast as those located on Mars.

+++Lasguns and bolters are available in a variety of makes and models usually designated in terms of their place of manufacture or the place of wherever the blueprints for the weapons were found. The variation in their effectiveness is minimal, albeit appreciable to the connoisseur (for example, the Triplex, Necromunda, and Mars-pattern lasguns all have various auto-fire setting availabilities and energy efficiency/output issues which makes each make a slightly unique beast in terms of battlefield effectiveness). Boltguns typically vary by "mark" and magazine type, but all of them possess broadly similar capabilities, even dating back to the earliest patterns.

~Logos Mikail Phelps

16-07-2005, 02:51
There are varying physical appearences between the makes of the various bolters and lasguns. The basic mechenism in each variant is the same, produces similiar results in battle.

There are varients of the weapons that are designed for long ranges (and have ammo or powerpacks for this purpose), like long lasguns or sniping version of the bolter (yes there is one), there are ammo types for the bolter each designed for various purposes. Hope this answers some of your question...

16-07-2005, 05:13
dear commsiar further to my last request i had understood that geneseed was held only on mars and on ++inquistion access denined++ of which recent rumors suggested had been over ruun my ironwarriors. however commisar kaine's post leaves me wondering if there are any more "hidden" genseed staches in the galaxy

Obviously, chapters hold a store of their own geneseed too...

16-07-2005, 21:38
Dear alterion,

I do not have much to add. Chapters keep the main part of the gene-seed they collect from their dead, the Mechanicus receives a tithe of roughly 10% of all harvested progenoid glands, both to check the purity of the Chapter's gene-seed and to build up reserves for future Foundings.
The stockpile that was attacked (if any such thing really did happen) was a reserve of gene-seed for future Foundings. This will in no way hamper the ability of individual Chapters to replenish their numbers, and probably does not really scale back any further Founding that might be planned. The real danger is what the servants of Chaos might do with those.


Dear Kensai,

Again, the question has pretty much been answered. The differences are relatively minimal between models, although they are sometimes large enough to create of logistical nightmare. There are instances where the power cells for a type of lasgun will not fit another type, and the Munitorum officers, while competent, are not always aware of such things, leading to shortage of ammunition (there is one such occurence in one of the Ghosts novels).

Rabid Bunny 666
16-07-2005, 21:41
hmm, this would be useful as a sticky methinks

what made Angron turn to chaos as i never thought it was explained well, apart from the emperors "rescue" of him?

16-07-2005, 22:07
Dear rabbit stew ;)

Angron was turned not only because he felt betrayed because he could not stand beside his fellow gladiators to fight his enemies to the death, but most importantly because Horus used this resentment to turn him against the Emperor. He appealed to his martial pride, to the idea that the Imperium would stand stronger without the Emperor but instead with Horus at its head.
That and the psycho surgery...

17-07-2005, 06:13
what made night haunter and the night lords turn to chaos, since it seems that they were already coming to the attention of the emporer before Istavaen (spelling was awful I know..) any way anything interesting on that? thanks, and also if you have anything about the thousand sons. Like the story mentioned in the chaos watered down thread about the sorcerer who lived for 10k years, and he stored his memories. anything intersting like that.

17-07-2005, 09:33
you forgot your dear commisar.. ;)

17-07-2005, 13:20
Dear C'tan ;)

On the matter of the Night Lords, I would firstly advise the good book Lord of the Night, which has interesting insight on the matter at hand. I will not spoil your fun by revealing too much. The only thing I'll say is that Night Lords don't see themselves as having fallen to Chaos. They don't really care for it to be frank, their goal would be to reproduce on the scale of the Imperium what Konrad Curze did on Nostramo. Chaos is a tool, just like fear... Or at least that's the official line (read the book and ask me for spoilers if you want more info).

I remember the story you mentioned, but unfortunately I don't have more information on that.

Khaine's Messenger
18-07-2005, 03:52
+++Oh Kaelis Ra, bringer of woe:
+++The Night Lords surrendered themselves to their dark side and eschewed their ideologies pertaining to the "purpose" of their existance, much like all of the traitors of the Heresy; the only difference with the Night Lords is that their fall to Chaos took longer because their Primarch was pulling himself at cross-purposes in an attempt to stave off both the Emperor's bloody-mindedness and the darkess of his own soul while still retaining his focus. In short, upon the death of their Primarch and the loss of his leadership and lineage, which was waning at any point, the Night Lords fell to merely executing what they saw as what was their core "purpose" for existance: wanton domination and terror. Most Night Lords of the "modern" era see this as Curze's edict and "vindication."

The aforementioned Lord of the Night novel offers a bit of insight into the mindset of Konrad Curze, with at least two different perspectives on how his philosophy can be interpreted. The novel is yet another "Great Crusade mentality vs. 41st Millenium mentality" novel, however, so I imagine if you've read similar novels, such as Angels of Darkness, you probably wouldn't be too unfamiliar with some of the juggling of concepts in LotN.

18-07-2005, 04:48
Dear Commissar -

I am curious to know if there have been any confirmed appearances of 'non-chaos' Chaos warbands...i.e. World Eaters/Emperor's Children that did not fall to Chaos, during the sundering of the Heresay. Much like the Soul Drinkers...that may be excommunicate from the Imperium, but feel they are fighting for the God-Emperor.

18-07-2005, 04:56

I think there's old fluff about the Raptors SM Chapter (now a Raven Guard successor, heavy on jungle-fighting) originally being the Emperor's Children 4th Great Company, stranded on some forgotten planet and rediscovered by the Imperium. After lots of checks for corruption, they were cleared and formed a new chapter.

18-07-2005, 06:20
Dear warwizard,

There are no such things as non-Chaos members of the Traitor Legions. Their fall was complete and they're unredeemable. They turned from the light of of the Emperor and will suffer His wrath.

The only instance of non-Chaos members of the Traitor Legions are the members of several Legions gathered around Captain Garro of the Death Guard who fled on the cruiser Eisenstein to warn the Emperor of the betrayal of Horus. Their fate is unknown.

18-07-2005, 09:57
Lord Commissar,

Having finished the chronicles of the Daemonifuge, I have a question of my own.

What does the Black Library look like inside?

18-07-2005, 19:18
Dear Sai-Lauren,

The descriptions I have read of the Black Library come from the memoirs of an Inquisitor by the name of Jaq Draco, entitled the Inquisition War for some reason that still escapes me.
The Black Library is described as a bizarre place where many dimensions seem to slightly overlap but not directly connect. It is difficult to explain. I would recommand you to read Harlequin, the second volume of said memoirs, if you can get your hands on such an heretical tome.

18-07-2005, 20:27
sound like the unseen university library. and thanks commissar lord, may the emporer bless you

18-07-2005, 20:35
Not quite to be frank, imagine several libraries superposed on top of each other in different dimensions, each with its own secrets, its own books you may open and read, its own defences, and you get a rough idea of what it may look like...

18-07-2005, 21:12
I allways thought of it as you saw every one that had ever been there and will be there. if they are there for real or not depends on when you enter.

18-07-2005, 21:20
Dear boss humie in da big black 'at.

What are levithans used for in da guard? And how are dey moved from world to world, dey is even bigger dan titans! Do dey have specialised landing equipment, or do dey use normal transports? Also, didn't dey used to be used by the squa. . .stunties?

Yours with a big axe


18-07-2005, 21:48
Dear Greenskin scum,

Leviathans are moving command posts for Imperial officers. There was a time when every regiment was supposed to have one as the command vehicle for it. It seems this no longer the case however, at least for the majority of regiments (some may still have them).

As to how they are transported, the Imperium has truly huge transports able to carry such things around. After all, if they can transport Emperor class Titans in temple ships, Leviathans are no problem.

18-07-2005, 22:03
Dear Honoruable Servant of the star child ;)

How much could a non-ADmech person have in bionics? Im thinkg along the lines of Captain of Navy vessel.

Aslo I know That warships have a machine spirt simalar to a titan but how advanced is it could some one have a conversaion with it or just feel emtions form it like lets say they "jacked" into the mind of the ship?

18-07-2005, 23:12
Dear soft-meat,

I've heard of Rogue Traders, but recently heard the title 'Free captains'. Are they the same thing, or completely different, and if so, how?

Inquisitor S.
18-07-2005, 23:36
Well, Rogue Traders have to own a hereditary Charter, Free Trader should be something far less important or privileged.

19-07-2005, 00:02
Dear Bmaxwell
The level of bionics available to anyone is limited only by the bearer's willingness to pay and the resources available. Mostly, these are either augmentics (naval captains often sport an augmentic eye) or replacments (often limbs or internal organs). The brain is seldom opperated upon in the case of non-Mechanicus personell. Various examples of nearly whole-body replacments exist (Eisenhorn's Rogue Trader friend springs to mind), along with full life support systems with assorted interfaces (the captain of the Drachenfells and the governor of Vervunhive amongst others).

Dear Sephiroth
A free trader is one who has been granted lisence to travel the Imperium to sell his wares, although he is often restricted to a specific area (Sector or Segmentum most commonly). He is "free" in that he is not bound to a specific trading lane. these charters may be time-limited, hereditary or for life, and may cover more than one ship under the same owner.

Rogue Traders, however, may do prettey much whatever they please, including traveling outside the Imperium. The specific charter will detail the rights and responsibilities of the Captain, along with whether or not it may be passed down.

19-07-2005, 06:18
Since Minister covered most of the issues, I'll say that on the matter on whether warships have true sentient minds I would argue against it. The ship might develop a personality, but not in the sense of a person, but more like an animal. Thus you would probably feel the emotions of the ship.
On top of that, there is a strong taboo, dating back from the Age of Strife, on the matter of sentient machines, which would mean that a vessel or a Titan or any piece of technology would probably not be sentient

19-07-2005, 06:44
Greetings prey creatures… uhh, We mean, the self called Commissar,

We have been conducting an investigation into the various incarnations of imperial bolters over the years, and have observed a number of curious points;

The mk I bolter does appear to have an ejection port, but it seems to be too far behind the breach mechanism to be of any use, additionally, the magazine is ahead of the fore grip resulting in a very short barrel – how on earth does this weapon achieve any form of accuracy?

Pictographs of mk II bolters have thusfar eluded us. Any idea what they look like?

Mk III bolters seem to lack ejection ports – would this be consistent with mutterings from way back that bolters, are in fact, caseless weapons? (or at least, were, despite the common depiction of bolters spewing a hail of spent cases) Is it fair to assume that at once stage, all bolters were caseless, but the widespread use of caseless ammunition has been lost to the Imperium?

Storm bolters and bolt pistols, especially those carried by terminators and marine officers also seem to lack ejection ports – would it be far to assume that these caseless variants are what is called ‘master crafted’?

Mk IV bolters have the ejection port back again. No issue there.

19-07-2005, 06:50
Ah the matter of bolters, personally to me they're caseless weapons. Any inconsistency is artistic license. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. And the bolter clip used for the 4th Ed. teaser in WD proves my point. Kinda abrupt I know, but this is an endless discussion that has no good answer.

19-07-2005, 18:49
Dear commisar

I know that in the Dark Angels chapter there were 2 special characters present (2nd ed).
Asmodai and....

What was his name and what was the name of the special weapon he could take... blade of redemtion? not shure about that.

19-07-2005, 19:09
Asmodai (Interogator-Chaplain) is the guy with the Blades of Reason, at least according to the latest codex. I don’t have the 2. ed. codex at hand, but I’m pretty sure that this is the guy you are looking for.

Weren’t there 2 other named characters, Azrael, Supreme Commander of the Dark Angels and Ezekiel, Master of Librarians?

19-07-2005, 19:10
Dear St10_hurts,

There were 5 DA special characters in the 2nd ed. codex. Of whom 3 are still included in the present codex. The missing two are the Standard bearer known as Brother Bethor. The other one is the Grand Master of Chaplains, also known as Finder of Secrets, named Sapphon.
There are the blades of reason, available to Chaplains and Masters as well as carried by Asmodai and Sapphon. Those weapons are also included in the present codex.

19-07-2005, 21:37
Doh my bad, I meant chaplain characters.

thank you.

19-07-2005, 22:03
okay on the Question of the space ship minds could lets say the captaian of the ship if conncected to the mind of the space ship sort of get emitons on what the ship thinks it should do? and with the constant connection to the captain take parts of the captains personailty and make its own?

19-07-2005, 22:17
Yes certainly, if Titans are anything to go by, then what you mention could take place, if the captain was linked to his ship in the same a Princeps is to his Titan, which is generally not the case.
It might not go as far as getting advice from the ship's machine spirit, but it would certainly allow him to feel the general state of the ship as if it were an extension of his body, with all the problems related to that (pain backlash)

Inquisitor S.
19-07-2005, 23:22
if the captain was linked to his ship in the same a Princeps is to his Titan, which is generally not the case.
Well as far as I have read, many Captains are, in fact I do not remember spontaneously one to be not connected.

And the machine spirit of a ship may be quite individual, too.

20-07-2005, 06:15
I'm not sure the Captain would be connected to his ship in the same way as the Princeps is. The connection of a Princeps is a very deep one, since the control of the machine's movement is almost entirely mental. This is entirely impossible on a warship that is much more complicated than a Titan.

20-07-2005, 07:13
It's just for RPG im in my chacter is a captain of a ship and due to his invloment in trynic wars most of his body is Bionic. And often after a Battle is done he will conecnt to the ships mind to clam it down after the battle. what my plan was to have him just connect to it when ever he wants more often and the ships mind beguins to grow and becomes its own enity and well all heck breaks loose

I know I allways push the boundries

Inquisitor S.
20-07-2005, 09:53
Hm, you've got to bear in mind, that a machine spirit's "character" is VERY old, and has been shaped by many captains in your case.

20-07-2005, 14:06
Indeed, again, if Titans are anything to go by, they have developped their own 'personality' long before your captain came and it would be a mix of all the captains that commanded it. On top of that, there must be safeguards in the machine spirit to prevent it from going whacko.
However if you throw in the influence of the warp, and daemonic possesion (even if minor), then you're back on track.

Incidently, it may be good to move this discussion elsewhere to avoid clogging this thread with an otherwise interesting discussion

20-07-2005, 15:01
I'll make thread for this topic

25-07-2005, 04:41
Alright, I have another Query for the Commissar, or anyone else with a knowledge of Tyranids.

Now, a full-fledged hive fleet usually contains hundreds, or up to thousands of the tyranid bio-ships, but how large could a splinter hive fleet be around?

Would a splinter fleet the size of say.. A single hive ship and a handful of escorts and cruisers be enough to threaten a sub-sector? I have an idea for a short-story, but it wouldn't be a full-fledged invasion that could instantly tear through a sector like Behemoth or Leviathan in their prime.

25-07-2005, 05:24
dear mr brusilov,

i have heard that the tyranids are powerful psykers, would they not draw the attention of the creatures in the warp, i have heard of the effect of the shadow in the warp, but wasnt sure if that just stopped psykers or also repelled daemonic entities as well.

25-07-2005, 06:31
Dear Simofett,

A fleet containing a single hive ship would be a menace to relatively lightly defended worlds, such as agri-worlds, mining worlds, feudal worlds and the like. But probably not to the most heavily fortified planets, like civilised worlds, hive worlds or forge worlds.
However, as Warriors of Ultramar demonstrated, three hive ships seem to be enough to devour a civilised world.
So yes, a small hive fleet would be a threat to a sub-sector. But it could probably be deal with by the local battlefleet, maybe with a few IG reinforcements from outside if the Nids make it to the ground.


Dear Diddimz,

As far as I'm aware the Shadow in the Warp is the result of the psychic communications of millions of Tyranids creatures completely overloading the warp and preventing psykers to use their powers. It would be harder for daemons to manifest themselves but not impossible

25-07-2005, 10:11
Dear Mr Brusilov,

1. Does the size of a standard Imperial Guard regiment include logistics units such as catering, stores etc or are they simply fighting units?

2. Why does the Imperium only deploy small numbers of IG Regiments to warzones? For example the Damocles Gulf Campaign only had 17 Regiments. Given that the average size of a regiment is only 4,000 - 8,000 men, this is only 68,000 to 136,000 men. Given that battles fought on Terra during the 19th and 20th centuries often had more men, could this explain why the Imperium is slowly being whittled away?

3. Where do Space Marine Command Squads come from? That is, a standard company has 6 Tactical, 2 Assault and 2 Devastator squads. There is no mention of Command Squads.

Regarding bolter shells

Could the ejection ports be used to remove faulty shells? The Marines may take good care of their weapons, but there is nothing that is fault proof.

25-07-2005, 11:08
Indeed, again, if Titans are anything to go by, they have developped their own 'personality' long before your captain came and it would be a mix of all the captains that commanded it. On top of that, there must be safeguards in the machine spirit to prevent it from going whacko.
However if you throw in the influence of the warp, and daemonic possesion (even if minor), then you're back on track.

Incidently, it may be good to move this discussion elsewhere to avoid clogging this thread with an otherwise interesting discussion

Going back to the heresy (ie Adeptus Titanicus and 1st edition epic), titans have a control system, which is generally referred to as the machine spirit. This is patterned on the brains of a predatory animal (IIRC, the warhound had a wolf or similar analogue, whilst the warlord had a bear), with the creature being sacrificed on completion of the titan, presumably so it could taste blood from it's moment of birth.

Over the years, the titans machine spirit would absorb signals - including memories - from it's princeps and moderatti - empathic leaching, and would further develop it's own personality.

My personal feeling on bolters (especially marine ones) is that whilst they're generally using caseless ammunition, they can easily accomodate cased ammo, such as that used by less well equipped individuals- or by units who're active on worlds of such atmospheric conditions as to render caseless ammunition useless very quickly at a degradation in effectiveness. The weapon itself will be able to tell the difference, and access the ejection port accordingly - which would explain why it's out of the main firing mechanism, a secondary system pulls the cases back down the weapon and ejects them - there's no firing pin like a 20th century rifle, rather an electrical ignition system like Metal Storm, whilst the primary systems slow the rate of fire slightly to compenste for the additional handling.

Lost performance certainly, but better that than having to beat the enemy over the head with it. :p

As for your questions, the strength of a guard regiment is usually considered their fighting strength, some regiments may have support staff, others may rely on local assets.
The numbers mentioned for the Damocles campaign ignore one point - a campaign like that will encompass many different systems which can be treated like islands. With the navy keeping each system secure, the imperium can roll over each planet one at a time, before moving on to the next one. As each regiment becomes damaged, other fresher regiments can be brought in from further back into the imperium.
Also, IIRC, the Damocles crusade wasn't an official crusade, rather something stirred up by a group that managed to achieve critical mass.

Marine command squads tend to be the commanders closest collegues, although the 1000 marine chapter size doesn't reflect the command staff, specialists etc.

25-07-2005, 11:09
catering and the such, I believe is arranged by the adeptus ministorum(sp?) so are part of the fleets that carry the regiments around...but not part of the regiments themselves...

25-07-2005, 11:39
Dear Cailus,

1. yes, the size of regiments does include quartermasters, medics and other support personnel. I would personally apply modern ratio between fighting forces and support personnel.
The best example of this is the structure of the Krieg armoured regiment in the Imperial Armour Vol. 1 book from FW, which includes supplies, medical support and such like in the structure of the regiment.
The fact those units belong to the Munitorum do not prevent them from being organically integrated into regiments.

2. This is also something I have had trouble with for a long time, until I changed every reference to a regiment in descriptions of battles in 40k by divisions. If you consider that a division is roughly 20,000 men strong (IIRC and according to the numbers I came up with) then you'd get much more believable numbers (340,000 or so men, and even then that's very low for a Crusade).
This is a real problem in GW fluff and derives from the following: GW on the one hand describes massive battles including millions of guardsmen, but on the other because of its focus on the game at the exclusion of almost everything else, as far as fluff is concerned, you end up with such ridiculous situations where 2 million guardsmen are defending Armageddon against Orks :eyebrows: :wtf: This is because the regiment is the core of the army list.
And even then, this does not work properly, because regiments are specialised (you have infantry regiments, tank regiments, artillery regiments, Ogryn regiments...), and thus the army you field in a game is a battlegroup composed of units of several regiments.
The IG is one of the many places in the fluff where you have holes the size of a Big Bertha crater.

3. Personally I would believe the command squad would be either a tactical squad that serves as the praetorian guard for the officer (as it seems to be in the novels) or veterans detached from the first company (as often happens).

On the matter of bolters and the ejection of spent casing, I'm well past discussion. My point is: bolters are micro-rocket launchers and thus don't eject spent casing, any picture showing this is nothing but artistic license.

25-07-2005, 12:16
Ok I don't think this is important enough to warrant a new thread, so I thought I'd use the 'ask Brusi' thread...

In 'First and Only', the Guard uses an orbital staging post called a 'hexathedral'. At first I thought it was a Ramilies type thing, but it appeared to be staffed by 'deacons' and not Naval personnel. Any idea quite what it is, or is it just something Abnett made up and has no further position in the background?

25-07-2005, 12:51

Ha, the human has left his data-terminal unlocked. I shall earn much sfik by answering his correspondence while he's away.

The Hexathedral was first documented in the "Obvious Tactics" comic that ran through the first fifteen or so issues of INFERNO! magazine: at least one was used in the Imperial assault on the heretic world of Obzidion. The name comes from the large cathedral-like fortress mounted on a large hexagonal "base" which faces toward the planet to shield the cathedral above it. The barrel of the main armament protrudes through the base and is brought to bear on the surface below.

There was a special feature on the Obzidion cleansing somewhere else in INFERNO!, but I can't find it at the moment. I'm fairly sure it described hexathedrals as most commonly used in flotillas, towed into position in various orbits so that all of the planet's surface was covered by at least one. Once there they could bombard specific targets - my recollection is that they were specifically designed to reduce planetary defences and support ground actions rather than control areas of space the way the Ramilies generally does.


25-07-2005, 13:44
I would indeed imagine that such thing as an hexthedral would serve as a staging area for the Imperium's invasion effort. It would be easier to use such a thing to which transports could safely dock and the supplies would then be dispatched to the different war zones on the planet by shuttles.
As mentioned it would also serve as a perfect defensive strongpoint, allowing the Navy to patrol the system and hunt enemy reinforcements rather than securing the defence of the planet itself.

As to why people would be called daecons, maybe they were Munitorum personnel (though personally I would not give them religious ranks.

25-07-2005, 13:48
This is odd, since the Ministorum is disallowed any 'Men under arms' (hence the sororitas), are these 'deacons' counted as military personel? How does this mesh with the rules about the churchs access to military equipment?

25-07-2005, 14:13
We're talking about a very old imperial organisation here, so "no men under arms allowed" is presumably found in the form of 3 dusty volumes of "lex ministorum" (or a similar name), 8 new editions/reprints/changes/erratas/FAQs and 32 case-specific exceptions and declarations made by different high-ranking members of the ekklesiarchy (madness quote: 70%) of which 2 out of 3 contradict former versions/declarations in some points. (Kinda reminds me of GW. :D)On top of this we know that these are desperate times and Imperial officials are often far, far away but the alien/chaotic thread is close...

25-07-2005, 16:06
The book mentions it being staffed by apparently Ministorum people. But these are not necessarily 'under arms'. They could just be involved in the running and administration of the base. It's a staging base, so they wouldn't have to be military themselves.

Of course while that is a possible justification, quite why a facility that should so logically be under the control of the Navy is actually run by the Ministorum is another thing...

25-07-2005, 19:07
Do not mistake Munitorum for Ministorum please.
Departmento Munitorum: branch of the Adeptus Adminstratum tasked with the support and command of the Imperial Guard. It provides the fighting forces of the Imperium with ammo, food, fuel and weapons, as well as high ranking officers.

Adeptus Ministorum (also known as Ecclesiarchy): branch of the Adeptus Terra tasked with the moral wellbeing of the Imperial population, with the church of the Imperium and with defending the divinity of the Almighty Emperor of Mankind.

As to the Ministorum having anything that flies except a shuttle that's utterly impossible because of the Decree Passive signed at the end of the Age of Apostasy in M36 that bars the Ecclesiarchy from having not only men at arms but also a fleet of ships.

25-07-2005, 19:11
They do have spaceborne Schola Progenium facilities, though. Maybe Hexathedrals are something of the same thing - an Ecclesiarchal facility that caters to all aspects of the Imperium? It was protrayed very religious in the book (and ends with "-athedral") and considering this was a Crusade, it might just be an Ecclesiarchal star-fort.

25-07-2005, 19:15
Sorry, I miss-read your original post. I guess they would be Munitorum them, though shouldn't they just be called adepts then?

A neutral shade of black.
25-07-2005, 19:56
Completely off topic, but heh.
I have a question for the Commissar and his assistants. When, either exactly or roughly, did the Emperor's Children acquire their sonic weaponry? I ask because I may well choose to do a pre-Heresy Emperor's Children list, and would rather have sonic weaponry (because, just face it, the idea of killing someone with a guitarre is just leet)...

25-07-2005, 20:04
Without having access to the Horus Heresy books, I vaguely seem to recall that sonic weaponry was among the experimental weapons tested out by the Emperor's Children prior to the Heresy, along with such gear as jet bikes (possibly because of their exalted status - they were the only Legion to wear the aquila on their chests, for example). Following the Heresy such obviously corrupting wargear was deemed heretical and outlawed.

25-07-2005, 20:04
Completely off topic, but heh.
I have a question for the Commissar and his assistants. When, either exactly or roughly, did the Emperor's Children acquire their sonic weaponry? I ask because I may well choose to do a pre-Heresy Emperor's Children list, and would rather have sonic weaponry (because, just face it, the idea of killing someone with a guitarre is just leet)... My EC are pre-heresy too, but I don't think we can have them, I don't think there is mention of them in either Space Marine (Epic that is) or the HH CCG, but I could be wrong.

When Black Roses Bloom
25-07-2005, 20:11
Dear lackey of a false emperor,

what were the Dark Angels accused for? Why are they called "The Fallen" and what is that dark secret the rest of the chapter is hiding? I have heard rumors of some of the chapter members that have joined forces with the Ruinus Powers but as I was in stasis since 1996 I haven't heard anything more.

25-07-2005, 20:25
On returning home from the Horus Heresy, the Legion discovered that the forces left to guard their homeworld, Caliban, had fallen to the whispers of Chaos. Primarch Lion El'Jonson's oldest friend, Luthor, had led a substantial part of the Legion into heresy.

None too amused over this turn of events the loyal Dark Angels unleashed a bombardment that pretty much smashed Caliban into tiny bits. During the hail of fire Lion El'Jonson and the Dark Angels invaded the fortress-monastary itself, and here the Primarch confronted his most trusted lieutenant. There was the mandatory epic duel. IIRC the Lion gained the upper hand and was then unable to strike down his friend - then the roles changed and it was Luthor who threw away his sword.

At this point the Gods of Chaos got mightily peeved about their lackey's action, and a Warp Storm engulfed Caliban. The traitor Dark Angels were sucked into the Warp, randomly scattered across space and time. When loyal Angels arrived at the scene (the fortress monastary now occupied a single asteroid all of its own) they found Luthor, curled up in a ball and babbling about how the Watchers in the Dark had taken the Lion and how they would one day return to redeem Luthor of his sins. Thus the Lion is supposedly snoozing inside the Rock (the fortress monastary and asteroid, refitted into a big spaceship) and as for Luthor... The novel Angels of Darkness has more on the subject, I believe.

The Dark Angels swore to hunt down the Fallen, dubbed theemselves Unforgiven, and started the practice of Interrogator-Chaplains whose duty it is to get captured Fallen to repent their sins. Quite frequently the Fallen die, messily, before doing so. This is the secret they keep from the rest of the Imperium - except, as the IA goes, maybe the Emperor who has a nasty habit of knowing everything.

Hideous Loon
25-07-2005, 21:09
Lord-Warlock: Why shouldn't the Emperor (oh, Long May He Live!) know about it? After all, He's the most powerful psyker that ever existed, well, duh, totally. [/teenager rantings] I have nothing to add to the subject. Anyways,

Dear Comrade Commissar, I know that, in order to utilise power armour, you need the Black Carapace. Then, what about the Adepta Sororitas? Judging from the outright pennywiseness that exist between the different branches of the Imperial military, I'd say that the Sisters of Battle (and the Inquisitors, for that mattter) do not incorporate the Black Carapace, which is indeed a Space Marine implant. Then, how do they interact with Power Armour? Do they just put it on, like some barbarical armour?

25-07-2005, 21:14
A few questions regarding the composition of equipment in Imperial Guard squads.

What does a master-vox look like? Is it another back-pack mounted device, or does it need to be elaborately set up first?

Just how common are voxes and medical personnel within the average Guard squad? On average, they don't seem to be that lavishly equipped, and if most medics are regulated to the company and platoon command squads, how do they deal with the casualties in the front lines?

A sort of follow-up question to that, just how effective is the narthecium in treating wounds? All the picture I have of it is some large, blockish-like computer that'll pump a dying guardsmen full of drugs.

Just curious as to what people think.

25-07-2005, 21:16
Indeed - He, in his infinite, divine etc wisdom, is probably the only one who know. Oh, and the Keepers (from the back of the 3rd Edition rulebook) had a clue, but they got purged. I don't remember much about them, I'm afraid.

The Sisters (yes, I'm apparently Brusilov's sub, for the moment ;)) do indeed use power armour without the black carapace, as do everyone else who isn't a Marine, like Inquisitors and Witch-Finders. Their version of power armour doesn't offer the protection an Astartes suit does (though it's still so much that they gain a 3+ save in 40K).

Hideous Loon
25-07-2005, 21:40
Yes, but then how do they wear it? Do they wear straps with it, or do they have some other means of armour support?

25-07-2005, 21:43
I leave for a few hours and a whole page of questions and answers is being written behind my back :rolleyes: ;)
Now onto answering the questions.

Yes Munitorum agents would probably be called Adepts (this is something I still have to work on), but we know Abnett's inability to get the fluff precisely right, so we'll just assume that's what he meant :eyebrows:


On the matter of the Dark Angels, they are not called the Fallen, they are called, along with all their successor Chapters, the Unforgiven. As mentioned, the Fallen are those Space Marines of the DA Legion that declared for Luthor during the civil war. They are being hunted to cover up this near betrayal of the DA, because the Imperium would probably declare the DA heretics, even after 10,000 years if they discovered such a thing.
Maybe the Emperor knows, maybe he does not. There is no way to know, because the man has not been very talkative these past thousands year :rolleyes:


Indeed anyone except Space Marines wearing power armour in the Imperium would do so without the benefit of the black caparace. The problem would not be so much lesser quality of armour, but the wearer being less agile. The black carapace allows the Marine to be directly connected to his armour, to the extent that it becomes a second skin to him. The movements of SoBs, Inquisitors, while enhanced would be clumsy when compared to that of Space Marines.

25-07-2005, 21:46
IIRC the suits include pressure pads and "electronically motivated fire bundles" on the inside, that allows it to replicate the moves of the wearer but not in as sophisticated a manner as is the case with Astartes armour (hence, less protection).

25-07-2005, 21:49
I would disagree. While the whole purpose of the power armour is not only to offer superior protection but also to enhance the natural abilities of the wearer (hence IIRC strength increase in =I=) but it is also bulky and would be awkward for people to use, even if you've worn one for some time. You'd probably improve over time, but yet would never reached the level of a Space Marine.
I really don't think the protection suffers from this, if anything, the power armour of Inquisitors would be superior (not mentioning artificier armour here though).

25-07-2005, 21:59
I always took the view that the Sisters sacrificed some of their protection in order to maintain the same flexibility of limbs as the Marines instead of lumbering about like Terminators - the reduction in weight allows the fire bundles to work faster. Just look at them, they do seem to be more lightly armoured than the Marines. As for custom-made suits it obviously varies - look at Witch Hunter Tyrus, for example, and his behemoth of a suit as opposed to the regular Daemonhunters in 40K. Tyrus, Coteaz and other "kill smash purge"-types of Imperial servants would probably be clad in very cumbersome yet heavily armoured suits.

25-07-2005, 23:12
The whole point of power armour is to enhance the abilities of the wearer, allowing him to use heavier armour without the inconvenience of weight (hence to increased strength).
As to whether SoBs have lighter versions of the armour, I would not think so personally. It derives from the design of the armour (skin tight instead of the bulky armour of Space Marines).

This discussion could be moved to its own thread, so as not to clog this thread.

25-07-2005, 23:28
Dear powerful wealer of the emperors Judgement

What where the other 2 chapters called. I see in the SM codex that there where origonally 20 but 2 have been completley scratched out. What and Who where they??

26-07-2005, 00:00
Dear Templar of the Emperor

Our most revered and Holy Emperor has never had more than 18 sons, so your point of 20 Primarchs is heresy, I shall immdiately contact your Company Chaplain who shall punish you with death, heretic scum.

-Inquisitor Sauchone


For en objective view, it is known that there has been 20 Primarchs, but as can be seen from various sources and which is the official wiew, that only 18 Primarchs have been found, thus creating the 18 Legiones Astartes. There has been many rumours and speculation about the missing Primarchs (like that the other would be Sigmar etc,) but nothing has been confirmed. Ah, maybe they are just waiting to be found in some backward planet, or not. But as the Holy Codex says, twenty went, eighteen returned.. life is.

26-07-2005, 06:13
On the matter of the Primarchs, Acheron is quite right. However I would rule out Sigmar immediately as a Primarch. WH world is not part of the 40k universe, how many times must it be said :rolleyes:
Personally I think that the Primarchs simply don't exist anymore. To me they suffered horrible mutations that made the Space Marines from them monsters that had to be destroyed.

However it is more likely they're just out there waiting to be found. It's a release option GW keeps ready in case the interest in Space Marines would drop...

26-07-2005, 06:53
WH world is not part of the 40k universe, how many times must it be said :rolleyes:

How then, will you explain that fact that the Amazons use equipment that is, in all but name, the equivalent of 40K wargear? Or the “magic” items that were found on Albion…?

When Black Roses Bloom
26-07-2005, 08:11
Dear former brother, and follower of the false emperor ;)

What about those 2 marine chapters that are lost through space and time? What happened to them? Where they loyalists who have been extinguished, and there could be nothing to retrieve their gene-seed? Or where they heretics who merely dissapeared in the warp?

And one more question. When you started write in this section, you said about the 2 more C'Tan. Were you refering to the C'Tan that are rumored to be close to Terra? The One known as the Machine God and the Other known as the *ahem* Golden Throne?

26-07-2005, 08:57
Of 'the two' - the records have been deleted, so we don't know. Nothing. Nada. Beyond knowing that there were 20 primarchs and 20 legions at their inception, there is no other information whatsoever available.

And don't go making up stories! That would be a big taboo of the 40k universe.

26-07-2005, 09:04
just extra info, the machine god one is supposed to be on/in mars and its called the dragon

26-07-2005, 09:08
Bah. That's a plot hook and not necessarily accurate.

26-07-2005, 09:27
On the matter of the gift of the Ancients in the Albion campaign, it is meant as nothing more than a joke on the part of the conceptors. The equipment looks like Imperial wargear for the most part, do you really think the old ones would have something as pitiful as power armour, lightning claw or auspex?
And to have WH as part of the 40k universe would cheapen the former, and personally I don't want that (please refer to the existing thread for more info on my stance on that topic).


The Void Dragon supposedly in a tomb in the Noctis Labyrenthus on Mars (a real place btw) is NOT the Machine God. He is wrongly believed to be the Omnissiah by a cult of self-deluding whackos called the Dragon Cult. The origins of the Adeptus Mechanicus are well established and they have nothing to do with some Star God! Void Dragon was on Meduse anyway, until Ferrus Manus kicked his rear (I love using that, just to spit the C'tanists, also known as the worshippers of the C'toe, aka the Emperor's left big toe, who is also a C'tan :rolleyes: :eyebrows: ).

The other C'tan is the Outsider and is nowhere near Terra, his homeworld, a Dyson Sphere (see wikipedia for more info) is on the path of Hive Fleet Levithan (see reference in the back of Necron Codex). He is crazy because he was tricked by the Eldar Laughing God (who is not Deceiver either dammit!) into devouring his brothers C'tan to the point of being driven mad.
The story in WD, the "Last Stand of the Firebrand" could be refering to him

26-07-2005, 09:30
Most revered Commissar-Lord Brusilov,

I was wondering: what are the colours of the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers? Does it depend on whether they are from the Malleus, Heriticus or Xenos-branche?
A few pictures in the Codex: Daemonhunters show them as wearing red and black armour. Is this the way (and the only way) it should be?

Kind regards and much thankies in advance.

26-07-2005, 09:37
I don't believe they have specific colours, however red seems to be common enough among them, considering they're not infiltrating behind enemy lines.

This is something that has always bothered and that I try to keep when I paint my models, each Adepti was supposed to have its own colour, red for Mechanicus, black for Administratum, green for Astropathicus, blue for Astronomican (I'd say white for Ministorum). But then I guess the Inquisition stand outside the bounds of the Adeptus Terra and is thus free to do as it pleases.

26-07-2005, 09:58
On the matter of the gift of the Ancients in the Albion campaign, it is meant as nothing more than a joke on the part of the conceptors. The equipment looks like Imperial wargear for the most part, do you really think the old ones would have something as pitiful as power armour, lightning claw or auspex?
And to have WH as part of the 40k universe would cheapen the former, and personally I don't want that (please refer to the existing thread for more info on my stance on that topic).

If it’s a joke, then it’s a very official joke…

I don’t agree with you, but let’s not destroy this excellent thread with such a discussion. I will post my arguments on the other thread as you suggested…

27-07-2005, 12:32
Dear Commissar

I have a question on the Imperial Guard Stormtroopers. They were referred to back in the old WDs as "One regiment spread across the galaxy". Lately we've seen other incarnations of storm troopers in the form of inquisitorial storm troopers and the like. Does the "One regiment" background still apply and, if so, is there any information on what is available to the stormtroopers in terms of support branches, specialised squads, command structure or anything like that?

Your obedient pleb


27-07-2005, 12:40
The Commissar is busy at the moment. Please wait while you are forwarded to a Commissariat Customer Service Representative.

Dear Mr. Hlokk,

The idea of Stormtroopers being all from a single regiment is not at all far-fetched, given that Regiments are as much cultural traditions as strategic units. The Regiment would have to be truly massive and consist of thousands of battallions compared to the half dozen or so of regular Regiments. However, if memory serves, there have been references to a Stormtrooper Corps in some items of background. This implies that a stormtrooper formation higher than a Regiment exists. This seems to be simply one of those things that hasn't been paid too much attention in the details.

27-07-2005, 14:17
While I would not call such a unit a Regiment (I would tend to keep the idea of the Regiment as a unit with a well-defined size), there is little doubt that Stormtroopers would all belong to the same corps. Such organisation would be more bureaucratic than anything, Stormtroopers being most likely deployed at company or battalion level within large units like IG divisions or such like.

Stormtroopers would not have specific support units, they don't need them they're an integrated part of the structure of the IG, they rely on the same support. The same thing could be said of command, Stormtroopers answer to the same chain of command as IG troopers.
As to specialised squads, you'd probably have snipers, demolition specialist and such things yes.

Inquisitorial stormtroopers are stormtroopers who have followed the same training as those of the IG except they were recruited by the Inquisition from the Schola Progenium after thorough testing on their loyalty and resilience to the horrors servants of the Inquisitions are bound to encounter. They would probably have their own support and command structure, provided by the Inquisition.

27-07-2005, 14:25
This is where your opinion and mine differ, Comrade Commissar.

I personally don't involve the regiment in the theatre organisation of the Guard. I consider the Regiment to be a logistical structure for the purposes of recruitment and supply only, while the Battallion is the analogous combat formation.

27-07-2005, 14:32
On the matter of the regiments, here are my thoughts: the regiment is the largest permanent unit of the IG, it is also highly important, because as you mentioned it is the accounting unit used by the Administratum for tithing troops from a world, as such regiments often carry long and glorious traditions to which every new incarnation of the regiment looks up to and tries to live up to.
However, as you mention, in combat, because of the specialisation of regiments (doctrine of uncombined arms: infantry regiments don't have tanks, tank regiments don't have infantry, artillery regiment have neither infantry nor tanks), the IG fights in structures called battlegroups (deriving from the Wehrmacht structure of Kampfgruppe) made up of units coming from several regiments.
As such the IG army list in the Codex is not a regiment, it's a battlegroup.

As such you're right, the battalion would serve as a core fighting unit, because the main unit of a battlegroup would probably be a battalion, usually of infantry or tanks, support by companies and platoons coming from other units.

So we don't disagree, at least, as far as I'm aware

When Black Roses Bloom
27-07-2005, 14:48
Dear comrade-Commissar of the false emperor,

does the regiment of the Custodes, the Emperors most trusted guards form a full chapter? Or they are just a small force only to guard the Inner Sanctum?

And another one small question, the custodes, what weaponry do they use? The standard Mk6 and 7 armors or a different version? And what about their weapons? Who is in charge of them? Do they answer to anyone?

Thanx in advance and let the galaxy burn.

27-07-2005, 14:55
Dear foolish foolish Commisar,

Since I am stuck within the Maelstrom untill I get enough rebel and pirate forces to take on the galaxy, I have little knowledge of the recently awakened race the "Necrons".

Mainly I would like to know how these warriors reproduce? It has come to my attention that they are no longer biological so they may not reproduce using normal biological methods.

Rebel Inquisitor Jakar Painus.

27-07-2005, 15:51
It would appear that they do not reproduce. That all the necrons currently in existance are the most that there will ever be in the future - save for things like Pariahs which are created from captured psychic nulls. They can almost certainly create new bodies (and those that are damaged seem to be able to self-repair to some extent) but without the spirits/souls/intellects/whatever you wish to call it of the necrontyr to control them, they're little more than forged lumps of metal.

This means that it would theoretically be possible to utterly wipe out the necrons, but since the individuals generally transport themselves back to their tombs if they suffer serious damage, it's going to be very, very difficult to do so - no race will be willing to ally with the others to be able to wipe them out (the enemy of my enemy can do my fighting for me ;) ), and any race that tried it on their own would be easy meat for the other races in the universe once they were all gone. Hence the constant status quo of war in the universe - no one side can gain enough of an advantage without fatally weakening it's own position.

There's also the pobability that all we've seen so far is those necrons who're merely light sleepers, and that the universe is in a large amount of trouble when the alarm clocks of the remainder go off.

27-07-2005, 15:56
If it turns out that every lifeless rock is a hive of billions of Necrons, it'll be an interesting galaxy indeed.

27-07-2005, 17:41
The Adeptus Custodes (formerly known as the Custodian Guard) are not a regiment, they are something altogether different. As to what they are, it is not known officially (personally I'd argue for proto-Space Marines, aka a cross between SM and Primarchs, the first experiment of the Emperor on genetic enhancement).
As to the their numbers, they are equally unknown, but probably somewhere between a few hundreds to a few thousands. As to weaponry they use power halberds with inbuilt stormbolters. Their leader is the Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes and he is one of the High Lords (among the most powerful men of the Imperium). Incidently the Custodes seems to be divided between regular Custodians and Companions, elite troops.
As to what mark of power armour they use, I'd say any. And they have Terminator armour (or used to in the HH) and dreadnought tactical armour (again at the time of the Heresy)


Yes it would be potentially possible to wipe out all Necrons as they don't reproduce, except by creating Pariahs, which may be their solution to this slight problem. And experiments have demonstrated that infiltrating a Necron tomb is relatively easy, at least until the inhabitants wake up. It'd be easy to transport a few vortex warheads in there and blow the whole complex up, destroying all Necrons (as you don't come back from being sucked into the warp).
The only problem would be finding the Necron tombs. And there may be many because the whole Necrontyr population (probably billions of them) was turned into Necrons.
Honestly, the thing that bothers me is if the Eldar knew about why didn't they search for them (they had 60 million years after all) and used whatever nasty WMD they had in their arsenal to eradicate them from the galaxy.

27-07-2005, 17:43
Presumably the more you threaten Necrons, the more aggressive they become.

The Fallen Angel
27-07-2005, 18:12
Dear Gamesmaster,

Could you please tell me the locations of the the three warp whistles in super mario brothers 3 on the nes.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick................

Edit(So as to not spam anymore): Don't worry now that is out of my system I won't do it again.
p.s. Despite my **** taking post I really like this thread. Your knowledge of 40k is......well.......wow!

27-07-2005, 21:35
For not respecting the rules of this thread and daring to ask me a question about some dumb plumber, I shall give you the Emperor's mercy, you spammer
*pulls bolt bistol and summarily executes The Fallen Angel*

28-07-2005, 09:13
As to what mark of power armour they use, I'd say any. And they have Terminator armour (or used to in the HH) and dreadnought tactical armour (again at the time of the Heresy)

Without wishing to incur the wrath of the entire commissarat, Terminator armour is Tactical Dreadnought Armour. :p

Unless of course you meant that the Custodes also have Dreadnoughts.

28-07-2005, 10:37
And experiments have demonstrated that infiltrating a Necron tomb is relatively easy, at least until the inhabitants wake up. It'd be easy to transport a few vortex warheads in there and blow the whole complex up, destroying all Necrons (as you don't come back from being sucked into the warp).
The Necrons, itseems, don't watch enugh Star Trek. See: Borg cubes as an ilustration of how not to design a security system.

28-07-2005, 11:29
Ooops my bad. I meant the Custodes also had Dreadnoughts.

Minister, I think Necrons count too much on the creepy nature of their dusty tombs to frighten trespassers and not enough on good old guns and traps...

28-07-2005, 11:41
Or, indeed, a burglar alarm to wake them up...

I mean, if one intends to sleep untill new civilisations arise from the ashes, one should make reasonable preperation for the possibility of those new civilisations turning up.

28-07-2005, 11:43
Dear Commissar,

what is the organization of a crusader company as used in the damoclus crusade?

28-07-2005, 14:47
A crusader company? Hmm, please refresh my memory as I'm unsure what you mean and don't have my Tau Codex on hand ATM.

28-07-2005, 16:35
Dear Commissar

I have a question i have been wondering about... I know about the destruction of Caliban and how the Fallen were dispersed through time and space there after. What i wonder is if there is any word of loyal Dark Angels suffering from this form of displacement due to fighting their erstwhile brothers on Calibans surface during the planets destruction?

28-07-2005, 19:59
If I may comment on why the Eldar did not hunt the necrons down, without derailing the thread to much. I would theorize that they must indeed have done so, it is probably that the Necrons which are 'now' waking up slowly are simply the survivors, the ones that the Eldar did not find. That would be my theory at least.

28-07-2005, 20:16
Loyal Dark Angels do not suffer from this time and space displacement because they did not land on Caliban, only the Primarch Lion El'Jonson made is way planetside to confront Luther. He probably took only a limited retinue with him. The Legion pounded the planet from orbit until it shattered (according to the IA it was also because of a warp storm that finished up the job).

So even if the DA fought on masse on the surface of Caliban they had all pulled out by the time the planet exploded and the Fallen were dispersed.

Khaine's Messenger
28-07-2005, 20:33
A crusader company? Hmm, please refresh my memory as I'm unsure what you mean and don't have my Tau Codex on hand ATM.

A provisional or crusade "company" is a company made up of Marines from multiple chapters (as was the case in the DGC). It's basically an excuse for a whole panoply of marine colorschemes to appear in the same army (without having to make a deathwatch army ;) ). Essentially it just means that a few chapters don't want to commit a full company to a campaign, so they send off a few squads, and another chapter does the same, so that it adds up to an "on paper" strength of a regular battle company. How command or leadership is parcelled out in such companies is, I'm fairly sure, as yet unexplored, although knowing Space Marines it is quite possible that "codex" rank would probably win out; it would be unlikely for a whole bunch of captains to turn up with a few squads each, I would think, but then....

28-07-2005, 20:50
Ah yes, that I just got a hold of my Tau Codex now, thanks Messenger for clearing this up. ;)

29-07-2005, 01:24
wait...that means the DA blew up their own planet? never knew that...

29-07-2005, 06:13
Indeed, the IA says the Chaos Gods were angry and unleashed the fury of the warp, which helped, but the DA were indeed so angry that they blew up their own world.

29-07-2005, 07:30
Dear Commissar,

we all are realatively awear of you stance on colonel-commissar gaunt, but how do you stand on the tanith as a regiment as a whole? what are your thoughts on them?
and also the jantine patricians?

humbly the emperors servant.

29-07-2005, 08:06
...but the DA were indeed so angry that they blew up their own world.

I've had mornings like that.

29-07-2005, 10:47
I don't mind the Ghosts to be honest. The pulling together of several understrength regiments into one, either from casualties in battle or some catastrophe, is common enough in the IG. I don't mind their tactics either, this is logical enough that they would fight in this way, given their abilities. The only thing I have an issue with is their organisation. It is utterly lacking anything like squads, companies or battalions, this is very unusual even in a regiment that suffered such casualties. After all NCOs can get brevet ranks of lieutenants and eventually be officially promoted, it happens all the the time. Whole platoons are commanded by sergeants. Generally speaking there is a serious problem of officer shortage. The lieutenants are completely missing for example, something I find very bizarre, to say the least.
There are likable characters however, Gaunt included. My only issue with the concept is the position of Colonel-Commissar, which I find anathema to anything I believe in the Guard organisation.

However you'll have to refresh my mind on the Jantine Patricians, as I don't remember who they are.

Sikkukkut, I hope it does not happen too often, worlds able to bear life are rare enough, for you not to blow them up ;)

29-07-2005, 10:55
actually, IIRC, the ghosts are organized into platoons and squads, but each is only led by sergeants/rawne/corbec..

29-07-2005, 15:13
dear commisar;

which race in 40k has the shortest, and longest, natural lifespan (without using rejuv drugs, without resorting to making pacts with chaos, without interning themselves within metallic or wraithbone sarcophogi)?

29-07-2005, 15:17
dear commisar;

which race in 40k has the shortest, and longest, natural lifespan (without using rejuv drugs, without resorting to making pacts with chaos, without interning themselves within metallic or wraithbone sarcophogi)?

Would you discount space marine implants as well?

29-07-2005, 15:20
Shortest: Tau.

Longest: either Old Ones or C'Tan.

29-07-2005, 15:24
Shortest: Tau.

Longest: either Old Ones or C'Tan.

If beings made of pure energy count, then definitely C'tan. If not, then the Slann[Slanni?].

Oh, and the shortest is Orks, unless Tau only live to be 20.

The pestilent 1
29-07-2005, 15:44
If beings made of pure energy count, then definitely C'tan. If not, then the Slann[Slanni?].

Oh, and the shortest is Orks, unless Tau only live to be 20.

ghazghull is way older than 20 :eyebrows:
Orks are generally considered to be a short lived race because they tend to kill eachother before long, but it seems that Orks cannot infact die of old age, or so ive heard.

29-07-2005, 15:46
ghazghull is way older than 20 :eyebrows:
Orks are generally considered to be a short lived race because they tend to kill eachother before long, but it seems that Orks cannot infact die of old age, or so ive heard.

I heard that Orks live for only around 30 years, they live longer depending on their position in the army [boy, skarboy, nob].

And I know Ghazghull is way older than 20, I was pointing out that unless Tau only live to be around 20 then they do NOT have the shortest lifespan.

29-07-2005, 15:48
Where does it say Orks are so short-lived?

29-07-2005, 15:50
I don't know, but someone on old portent said they only lived to be around 30.

29-07-2005, 15:55
Not convinced. Early death through violence doesn't count as 'natural'

Ergo, I win.

29-07-2005, 15:57
Ok, how long do Tau live on average?

29-07-2005, 16:06
I believe 60 odd years, again from a portenter.

Commander X
29-07-2005, 17:59
Dear Mr. Commisar( I think I'm the first to adress you properly ;) )

A few days ago, Xhalax and I had a discussion about the need of flesh in members of the Adeptus Mechanicus. I am of the opinion that as long as there is atleast a 'brain in a box' somewhere inside them, they can exist, although she claims that without flesh, they do not live and are dead. Who of us is right and why?

Naturally, I do expect an answer that makes me right. :p

Inquisitor S.
29-07-2005, 18:09
What's the difference between "flesh" and "brain"? Both are organic matters.

Captain Stuart
29-07-2005, 18:36
Commisar General Brusilov: What is Imperial policy on use of child soldiers? What ages are citizens exempt from military service?

Commander X
29-07-2005, 19:06
What's the difference between "flesh" and "brain"? Both are organic matters.

I think I phrased that badly. The main point is that according to me a brain is enough, but she says you also need flesh. They are both organic matter so perhaps I should have said 'flesh' in the first sentence, I'll go change that now.

29-07-2005, 21:15
I would think that the Imperium would simply see it as a waste of resources. As there is never any shortage of manpower, it would be very unlikely that the Imperium would find itself in a situation where it needed to recruit underage (children) soldiers. As it is, I have nothing to support this theory other than my own observations, if anyone has any more concrete sources on this subject I would be interrested in seeing them.

30-07-2005, 00:20
I belive that during the second Armageddon war in the runup to the Hellsreach invasion the definition of persons unable to fight was those under the age of seven and over the age of nintey, but this cannot be said to be a normal situation. Simmillarly, there is no hesitation in sending out the Cadian Youth Army (who are pre-adolescent when they are sent out to the Training Fields for their survival trial) to fight alongside their elders. For the most part any reluctance on the part of the Imperium is on the grounds of innefficiency rather than respect fo rthe sanctity of childhood.

Edit: from the Gaunt books, eighteen seems to be the minimum age for service in the Guard, but I myself would put it as sixteen with allowances for local population trends (Necromundians apparently mature markedly faster than standard-form humans, part of the hive adaptation).

30-07-2005, 07:36
On the matter of lifespans, IMHO the correct answer are indeed Tau and C'tan/Slann, albeit this are the races we know of. Tau are considered to be old at 40 years old (see the history of Aun'shi) and would thus live on average no more than 50 years, without juvenat of course (which they might have).
C'tan being beings of pure energy seem to be able to live eternally, after all it seems they're the oldest living beings in the galaxy.
As to Orks, they can live very long, it's just that their violent lifestyle would usually prevent it.

On child soldiers, as mentioned above, unless under dire circumstances, the Imperium has more than enough adult soldiers at its disposal not to resort to child soldiers.

And as to the Magos of the Mechanicus, to me, a brain in a box is enough, although I don't remember ever seeing a techpriest go that far.

31-07-2005, 09:45
Oh Commissar of the Imperial Faith

I thought the Xenos Eldar where the Oldest Race in the Universe.

31-07-2005, 09:59
Well, no, they're not. The Old Ones and the Necrontyr appear equally old - much older than the Eldar. Quite where the C'tan fit into this I'm unsure of, as C'tan aren't a biological life form in the same way as the others mentioned.

31-07-2005, 12:18
The C'Tan, from my rememberings, pre-date the Slann and Necrontyr, but were not given a physical form untill the Necrontyr became involved. Whether or not they pre-date the Eldar something I cannot recall, although they do predate the Krork and Jokaero. In any case, the Slann and Eldar, whilst excedingly long-lived, are mortal in the normal sense, whereas the C'Tan are the same entities, not merley the same race, as those that took part in the War in Heaven. This makes them rather old...

31-07-2005, 12:27
what about the tyrannids? surely they have some sort of insect-like mechanism which the gaunts die out and are constantly replaced with newer, stronger gaunts. abit like bees.

31-07-2005, 12:35
I think Tyranids stay in stasis most of their life, and when they're not in stasis they're attacking/defending/eating something.

31-07-2005, 13:20
I would agree with the son of Abby, Nids spend long amounts of times in stasis as their ships cross the infinite void between the stars and awaken only when they reach an inhabited star system. IIRC if you can catch the hive ships as they exit the warp and before they fully awaken you can destroy a hive fleet fairly easily. However this would not happen very often as the Nids would probably exit the warp far away enough from the system to avoid such things.

The Judge
31-07-2005, 15:30
Dear Mr. Commissar,

Do you know who has replaced Eldrad Ulthran as the head of the Ulthwe Seer Council, or if they have even replaced him yet?

Cheers in advance!

31-07-2005, 16:25
IIRC if you can catch the hive ships as they exit the warp and before they fully awaken you can destroy a hive fleet fairly easily. However this would not happen very often as the Nids would probably exit the warp far away enough from the system to avoid such things.

It's possible, and Imperial forces have done in on various occasions - apparently boarding dormant hive ships is actually something of a trademark of the Scythes of the Emperor chapter, or what's left of them.

On the other hand, it certainly isn't easy - the fleets emerge from the Warp surrounded by clouds of non-sentient and very active defences that are fully capable of taking out a spaceship that gets too close and too careless. The first encounter with the 'nids back in the Tyran system was with these floating bio-mines.

31-07-2005, 20:08
It seems Eldrad has indeed been replaced by the individual was not yet named. He is highly controversial however. Some have argued that it is Auric from the novel Farseer (and there are plenty of reasons for him to be controversial).

As to the Nids, you are quite right, it would not be a walk in the park but easier than taking the hive fleet when it's fully awoken.

When Black Roses Bloom
01-08-2005, 21:42
Dead Commissar of the Carrion King,

Are the Tau capable of creating a titan like machine or something similar? In a few words, do Tau Titans exist? And if they don't exist how do Tau expect to win in a fight versus a machine of such titanic proportions?

Inquisitor S.
01-08-2005, 21:46
Dear Xenos sympathizer,

the Tau do not posess Titans like other species do, however this role is supposed to be fulfilled by superheavy flyers.

Khaine's Messenger
01-08-2005, 21:48
+++Dart Dark Floral Arrangement;
+++The Tau do not have the wherewithal to construct God-Machines in the manner preferred by the Adeptus Mechanicus. They do not field large walkers, but instead prefer to utilize heavy bombers (such as the "Manta Missile Destroyer") and strike craft to fill this "void" in their armed forces. Of course, by and large, most Tau only believe that the "mythical" titans are merely Imperial propaganda and as such are nonexistant...or believe that the race of men is as insane as it is powerful when it comes to waging war.

The Tau do not use giant walkers, and from what I hear, GW's keeping them away from giant walkers on purpose..at least so far. I'm rather pleased with that decision....

01-08-2005, 22:11
Who are the Vespid?

01-08-2005, 22:25
Manta Missile Destroyers are a rough match for our hallowed Walord Titans, or so I've heard. Tau believe in mobility above all, and it is thus not surprising that they would have flyers fulfilling the roles of Titans. On top of being fearsome war machines, Manta are also troop carriers who can transport roughly a hunter cadre of Tau (30 to 40 troopers and up to 4 vehicles).

As to the Vespid, as far as I know they're a new insectoid race allied with the Tau, I don't know much more htan this.

Captain Brown
08-08-2005, 17:52
Commisar-Lord Brusilov,

This seems like the best place to ask this:

Hey are you going to bring the old Tactica Imperium Article (Oracle 2) back from the dead? If you are PM me as I have pulled some of the quotes and maxims that would make up some of the material within the volumes. (In fact some of the maxims are from WarSeer members posting on the Tactica Imperium (Guard) thread - with some spelling and grammatical corrections.)

Have already submitted some extracts to Nick, but I told him I would be amending it regularly as time permits and when I remembered your article from Oracle I thought they might be a good fit.

Captain Brown

Inquisitor S.
08-08-2005, 17:54
Estimated Commissar,
what happened to Sanguinus' body after his death and where can this information be found?

08-08-2005, 18:06
Yes I fully intended to bring back the Tactica Imperium series and to expand upon it. I don't quite understand what you intend to do with it. My sole purpose is to build upon the fluff for the Imperial Guard.

As to the body of Sanguinius, it's difficult to say. There seems to be no official information that I'm aware of. However it would be safe to assume the loyalist Space Marines still on the battle barge (especially Rogal Dorn) recovered it and it was handed back to Blood Angels.

Inquisitor S.
08-08-2005, 18:09
Well I know that the Blood Angels have the shroud and the red grail, which both contained Sanguinus' blood, and in another text it is said that the BA's genebanks were partially destroyed, however I'm not able to find the source of that text...

08-08-2005, 18:15
I did seem to remember the Blood Grail as well, so I would consider the BA have the body of their beloved Primarch.

09-08-2005, 01:25
It is known (one of the Inquisitor campaign books is my reference) that his body was taken from Earth, but it is not known whereabouts it ended up (most likley Ball, but not certainly).

09-08-2005, 02:08
Heh heh! Brusilov! Nice to see something like Portent back up again; it's been a while. But onward with a question, if I may, shift the topic a bit.

What are your thoughts on Guard organization? The 3rd edition opinion seemed to be that the average IG regiment was a bunch of companies forming a couple thousand men, and that there's no permanent position on the order of battle above regiment.

The new (well, newish) "The 13th Black Crusade" book seems to challenge this, as there's a reference to having 7-9 regiments forming armies, then having armies integrated into army groups, with no permanent level about that. What do you think?

I've always imagined that there would likely be brigades and divisions as well, plus theater command to manage the dozens (or hundreds) of army groups in sectors and subsectors. That would make managing IG regiments a lot more logical. But GW has always given numbers that seem far too low for major conflicts (like only having a few million Guardsmen on the entirety of Armageddon, a planet of massive strategic significance and hundreds of billions of people).

09-08-2005, 06:30
The 13th Black Crusade book is certainly a step in the good direction. Personally I believe the structure is more complicated than described in the book. However it is definitely the minimal organisation to allow the creation of battlegroups, that is ad hoc combat of several regiments.

But don't expect anything coherent from GW (I no longer do), Dan Abnett in an attempt to make up for his poor regimental organisation mentioned brigades.

Inquisitor S.
09-08-2005, 11:23
In answer to my own question, I found another reference from WD 168:

After the final battle was over, and the forces of Chaos were retreating towards the Eye of Terror, the established Space Marine Legions were reorganised into the smaller Space Marine Chapters. The Blood Angels had lost many warriors in the war, but worst of all the genetic banks which provided their implants had been partially destroyed. The only way to make good the damage was to reculture gene-seed from the body of Sanguinius, the Primarch whose genetic structure had been used to create the Blood Angels. Live germ cells were isolated within Sanguinius' body, and eventually new implants were cultured. In this way the Chapter was rebuilt using the gene-seed of Sanguinius taken from his dead body.

I really cannot imagine, that this reculturing took place aboard Horus' battlebarge, so I think we can assume that at least the Blood Angels recovered it (not only the primarch's blood).

09-08-2005, 13:56
His body is probably in a statis feild in the Blood Angels' fortress monastry.

09-08-2005, 15:16
Dear Commissar,

With regards to the Celestial Lions. Were they right to question an Inquisitors method of dealing with heretics etc? On the one hand the Inquisition works at all times in the name of the Emperor but on the other all marines are the progeny of him upon the throne and have a link with him, no mere man can achieve and would perhaps better understand his overall aims.

Gunner Sergeant Hakkan
Currently based on Armageddon

09-08-2005, 15:27
On the matter of the Celestial Lions, I believe they were correct in questioning the methods of Inquisitor Appoloyon, that was not the Inquisition in general. After all they had purged successfully a planet of its evil and the Inquisitor still glassed it with Exterminatus. This was a question of honour to them, Exterminatus is only used in the most dire of circumstances, and would thus mean the Lions had been sloppy in their work.
To get an inquiry launched into Appoloyon's possible wrongdoing (and covering up of his tracks), they had to petition the High Lords.

They did all they could legally do (they could have filed a complain with the Inquisition too), and were in their right to do so.

09-08-2005, 18:08
Dan Abnett in an attempt to make up for his poor regimental organisation mentioned brigades.

Heh heh! Dan Abnett's regimental organization for the Ghosts transcends poor; it doesn't even make sense. Sergeants with 50 man platoons, no lieutenants (or junior officers of any type), and no companies? :wtf: And the only commissioned officers being a pair of colonels, a major, and a captain?

They did all they could legally do

Which is why I find it highly amusing that they were set up to get destroyed by the Inquisition anyhow. Speaking of which...well, the Inquisition isn't exactly my fluff specialty. But what does happen if you have a rogue Inquisitor just using his position for personal gain? Something like a Commissar Cain as an Inquisitor.

Afterall, Appoloyon, it seems to me, made a serious mistake in judgment, then abused his power to pretty much annihilate an entire marine chapter. But since he's an Inquisitor and can't be questioned, he just walks off. Other than a cabal of Inquisitors hunting rogue Inquisitors down, is there any recourse in the Imperium for such behavior?

09-08-2005, 18:17
Afterall, Appoloyon, it seems to me, made a serious mistake in judgment, then abused his power to pretty much annihilate an entire marine chapter. But since he's an Inquisitor and can't be questioned, he just walks off. Other than a cabal of Inquisitors hunting rogue Inquisitors down, is there any recourse in the Imperium for such behavior? Whoever he is abusing's gun? Inquisitors do run the risk that their power only stems from getting very powerful people to do what they want - **** of the wrong guy and you might just have an 'accident'. When your job is hunting down secret cults its not going to be uncommon for a few to go missing, without the support of a planetary governor or alternatively a few other Inquisitors continously checking in with each other your investigation is going to be near impossible.

09-08-2005, 20:33
Great Commissar.
What do Chaos think of the Necrons? Do they see them as a great threat, or are they calm in the knowledge that they are a far greater force, and ignore them more or less? The same goes for Necrons/C'tan; what do they think about the forces of Chaos? And last: what do both these forces think abot the Tyranids?

09-08-2005, 20:48
I would think personally that it is not the Inquisition striking back at the Celestial Lions, but Appoloyon, and him alone. The guy smells of radicalism at a few paces and probably unleashed Exterminatus on that planet to cover up his tracks. And he really didn't like the Lions being too vocal in their protest, so used whatever influence and resources at his disposal to rid himself of them.
He doesn't want the Ordo Malleus breathing down his neck, and even worst being put on trial by his peers. Remember that even an Inquisitor is not immune to the investigations of his colleagues...

Btw, Kreitz, there is some thread currently floating on this forum that discuss the innane fluff on IG organisation from Mr Abnett, if you want to jump in ;) But it's more like beating a dead fish as far as I'm concerned, although some people are trying to justify the unjustifiable...

Chaos IMHO doesn't think much of the Necrons, to them it's just another insect to crush in the name of their gods. They can be annoying, like when they blow up one of Abaddon's toy Blackstone Fortresses but not much more than this IMHO.
However Necrons and C'tan see Chaos as probably as great a threat as the Eldar or possibly even the Old Ones from back in the War in Heaven. Chaos is the expression of the power of the warp, something both repulsive and dangerous to the C'tan (or so it seems). The C'tan would want nothing more than the destruction of Chaos, but they're patient, what's a few millennia compared to 60 million years.

On the matter of Nids and Chaos, I'll quote Xerzeth, Black Legion Sorcerer as it seems it all up nicely if you ask me.

This is our galaxy. Ours to corrupt. Ours to enslave. The gods will not be denied their prize

On the matter of Nids and Necrons/C'tan, the Nids are seen as competitors. If the Nids have their way, the C'tan will once again have to go back to sleep as they cannot harvest people to devour their life energy. This would be most annoying to have waited 60 million years for some new threat to cheat the C'tan of their lunch.

Inquisitor Samos
09-08-2005, 21:12
But what does happen if you have a rogue Inquisitor just using his position for personal gain? Something like a Commissar Cain as an Inquisitor.
I'll chime in here, if I may: What happens is that either a senior Inquisitor or a group of Inquisitors decide that they've had enough of such goings on, and they deal with the rogue..... and quite harshly.

(I'm not entirely sure that an inquisitor behaving as Cain is behaving in his role as a Commissar would be quite enough to certainly evoke a response, however..... after all, Cain seems to succeed in occasionally doing the Emperor's work despite himself!)

Afterall, Appoloyon, it seems to me, made a serious mistake in judgment, then abused his power to pretty much annihilate an entire marine chapter. But since he's an Inquisitor and can't be questioned, he just walks off. Other than a cabal of Inquisitors hunting rogue Inquisitors down, is there any recourse in the Imperium for such behavior?
I agree completely that Appoloyon went too far..... and more than once, given the chain of his actions as already noted. Certainly the High Lords or another powerful figure or group within the Imperial leadership structures who command sufficient power and respect could potentially take action against him..... after all, Inquisitors can be mysteriously killed just about as easily as all the Apothecaries in a Space Marine Chapter can! But such a thing would have to be extremely well concealed, or have the cooperation of others within the Inquisition who opposed the target Inquisitor (or both), lest a return retribution follow.

It's a near-certain fact in the Imperium that just about the only certain recourse to dealing with a problem Inquisitor is the Inquisition itself.

09-08-2005, 21:25
Actually, no matter what he says, Ciphias Cain is for all intents and purposes a hero of the Imperium, it may be despite himself, but the man had shown courage, if only to keep his cover and the Emperor seems to look kindly upon him, for he not only survives but manages to save the day on top of that.
The ways of the Master of Mankind are impenetrable.

10-08-2005, 11:56
What is a lasgun's progectile supposed to look like? In dawn of war they just look like pathetic laser pens, it would disapoint me if this were true,


10-08-2005, 12:21
firewarrior had them as little red bolts of light. i'd like to think the firewarrior views of weapons are the universally accepted, even if they had "dual" modes

10-08-2005, 14:03
I think the Star Wars light bolts of red light or somesuch are commonly accepted as a description for lasgun shots, usually accompanied with a cracking sound IIRC...

10-08-2005, 19:03
Thats one of my major gripes from any of Dan Abnetts books.

All of his Las weapons ricochet shots and throw people back, whereas lasers shouldnt reflect from anything non-shiny and definatly not have any visible light or recoil, and dont even get me started on how getting hit by a laser wont throw you back but pass straight through you.

EDIT: As for what a Lasgun beam looks like, i imagine them to be invisible apart from when they pass through smoke etc, much like real life laser pens, with the beam being quite thin, much like the ones in Dawn of War.

This isnt as bad as everyone seems to think, after all, you can rarely see solid bullets, apart from tracers, and that in no way retracts peoples 'image' of a gun EDIT

10-08-2005, 19:07
This is possibly because what is called a lasgun may not actually be a laser. I'm not into physics but if anyone is and has read the Moorcock novels on Hawkmoon, he'll see what I mean when I'm talking about (can't remember the name of those weapons on top of my head).

10-08-2005, 19:10
This has been speculated before, but i think GW is quite clear in describing Lasguns etc as lasers, although maybe the imperium ADDS something to the laser, maybe to aid aiming etc??

10-08-2005, 19:11
There was a discussion on old Portent about how Lasguns worked, I checked the 3rd edition BBR and it turned out that they actually are lasers.

10-08-2005, 19:14
Many people assume that the blasters in Star Wars are lasers, but there not, they fire highly energised gases, and have more in common with 40K plasma weapons.

10-08-2005, 19:16
That has nothing to do with this.

10-08-2005, 19:18
If you want to keep discussing lasguns, please do so elsewhere (as per thread rules). Personally I've long given up trying to apply real physics (or my limited knowledge of it, which means it doesn't matter much) to 40k.

10-08-2005, 19:31
Sorry, but the third edition codex does actually explain that las weapons shoot a concentrated beam of light [a laser]. I agree with the 'no recoil' thing, but the enemy would be blown back [aparently] because the area hit would evaporated because of the sudden heat change in a small explosion.

10-08-2005, 19:35
ok, enough on Lasguns.

Commisar, do planets and other physical bodies cast appropriate 'shadows' in the warp? for instance when you are in the warp do you still have to avoid them?

10-08-2005, 19:54
I would say that, since the warp is a world of the spiritual, and planets have no spirit [as they aren't alive] you could drive straight through them. Although, planets usually have some life on which would probably have to avoid.

I'm not sure how it works though, as spirits don't actually have a physical body to crash into.

10-08-2005, 20:07
Commisar, do planets and other physical bodies cast appropriate 'shadows' in the warp? for instance when you are in the warp do you still have to avoid them?
The 'density' of systems was one reason that you had 'warp zones' in the old 'fluff', a reason for not engaging the warp drive until you were on the outskirts of the system. Furthermore, the new 'fluff' "confirms" the link between gravity and the 'warp zone' or, at least, the point at which a warp drive can be engaged.

Also, there is reference to the 'warp shadows' of systems/planets in Inquisitor/Draco IIRC?


10-08-2005, 20:29
Indeed it does seem planets do carry a shadow in the warp that would prevent vessels from entering or exiting the warp in the system properly, explaining why ships have to travel for days, sometimes weeks back and to a warp zone.

This would be even truer if the system is inhabited as the people living there would cast their own shadows and their emotions might make the warp even more unstable.

10-08-2005, 20:38
Indeed. It is interesting to speculate upon the relative size of the warp zone based upon the size/type of star (i.e. mass shadow) and the extent of the (psychic and other) population of the system...


10-08-2005, 21:13
Doesn't the Tyranid shadow in the warp do a similar thing, though mroe pronouced due to the mass of psychic activity, I know its astropathic messages but doesn't the 2nd ed book mention something about evac ships being trapped

10-08-2005, 21:58
Indeed I would think the Shadow in the Warp would also make it difficult for ships to travel by blurring the vision of the Navigators or in the case of calculated jumps, making it nigh on impossible to calculate a trajectory because of Nid interference.

11-08-2005, 01:48
Although it's likley to be a diferent cause entirley. The Tyranids' Shadow would more likley be a psychic white noise to any trying to penetrate the area, drowning out anything else.

11-08-2005, 06:05
Definitely, the Shadow in the Warp is caused by millions of psychic communications that drown out everything else

11-08-2005, 19:39
An Inquiry, Commissar:

I've heard that our Immortal God-Emperor's warp presence is known as the Star Child, and has something to do with a group called the "Illuminati" and his children who are called the 'Sensei'. I've also heard rumors that The Emperor was actually born in 8000-9000 B.C. How is this possible? and what is the source of this information?


An anonymous lasgun toting prospective bodybag filler of the Tillaxian 43rd. :chrome:

Inquisitor S.
11-08-2005, 19:42
The source of these informations are the "Realm of Chaos" books.

11-08-2005, 22:28
Indeed, those two books Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned were written from the perspective of an omniscient narrator, which allows the reader to learn an incredible wealth of information as to the nature of the Emperor, the many conspiracies surrounding him, as well as on the Chaos Gods themselves.

11-08-2005, 23:35

But Commissar, surely detailing the Holy God-Emperor in a tome dedicated to Chaos is a heresy beyond reckoning! Oh it is a sad, sad day.

Speaking of which, may I borrow your bolt pistol for a moment, Sir?:chrome:

12-08-2005, 00:51
Indeed, those two books Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned were written from the perspective of an omniscient narrator...
While the attempt is made to represent them from the 'perspective of the omniscient narrator' it is fairly clear that the bias and, therefore, skewed perspective of GW are present throughout both of those books. Humano-centrism is but the smallest of the flaws! (But they remain darned good books. Slaves to Darkess in general feel, but Lost and the Damned in presentation and some interesting material...)


Lord Barker
12-08-2005, 17:01
Commisar and distinguished fellows,

Are there any known or speculative names for the C'tan Void Dragon. I ask this out of curiosity, and in the interests of consistency. All the other C'tan have a name with the postfix 'er'!

Khaine's Messenger
12-08-2005, 17:17
+++Dear nomenclature enthusiast;
+++Not as such, no. All instances of "the Void Dragon" refer either to "the Void Dragon" or just "the Dragon." The others go by names such as "Kaelis Ra," "the Master of Death," "That Which Lies Outside," or "the Jackal God" as well, so I am pretty sure there is not any suffix preference.

12-08-2005, 18:56
Dear foolish lapdog of the Corpse God,

What would be, in your professional opinion, the best 40k novel that you have read thus far?

12-08-2005, 19:28
Is it possible to determine the best 40k novel when it almost entirely comes down to individual preferences? How does the novel compare to other publications, etc.?

For me?

"A"-class Novels
These are the novels that I would recommend to people who do not have a strong interest in the 40k universe.

Inquisition War trilogy.
Eisenhorn trilogy.

"B"-class novels
These are those that I would recommend to those people who have a strong interest in the 40k universe.

For the Emperor.
Angels of Darkness
"Last Chancer" novels.
Gaunt's Ghosts first novel (forget the name).

There are some others that I cannot remember at the moment, but not too many.

"C"-class novels
All the rest. These are novels that I would not recommend except for the odd bit of 'fluff' which can generally be shared on this type of discussion forum. Do not buy unless it encourages more novels of the same type!

But that's just me.


12-08-2005, 19:40
Yes I understand that it comes down to preference, that is why I stated I wanted his. :rolleyes:

12-08-2005, 22:55
In my own opionon, Execution Hour. Both because it's actually rather a good book and because it fits entirley within the 40K background as stated, whilst making a few well thought-out additions.

That, and it's got goolaggin' big shipps with lodza shooty-shooty.

12-08-2005, 23:46
To: Commissar Brusilov
cc: ordo xenos representative

Dear Commissar:

I've heard rumors that in earlier times vile xenos were using human weapons such as lasguns and bolters. Even worse than this, I've heard similar rumors of supposedly loyal space marines commiting the heresy of wielding xenos weaponry! please tell me this isn't true!

A lowly yet loyal grunt with a laser pointer.

Out of character, how did this work in the game, and was this only in rogue trader, or in 2nd ed as well? :chrome:

13-08-2005, 00:07
Dear humble servant of the God-Emperor,
Such reports are heretical in the extreme, and any members of the Adeptus Astartes found to be using such blasphemies against the Omnissiah will be swiftly brought to justice by the force of the Inquistion.
Please report to your regimental Commissar for further debriefing.
Ordo Xenos defender of humanity.

(NOTE; Yes, in 2nd ed alien races commonly used imperial tech - eg Eldar Guardians with lasguns, Orks with bolters, both Eldar and Orks with Lascannon. It really just seems like laziness from GW now, and fits in much better with the alien races esp. Eldar, to exclusively use their own equipment. Though to be fair, there was no suggestion as far as I can remember that Eldar Lascannon were the same as Imperial ones, just that they functioned the same. Still, Bright Lance sounds a lot cooler for the Eldar. And as for the Marines using alien tech, I would imagine it would usually be an absolutely positively last resort thing, but check out this winner of a GW chapter founding contest: Silver Sharks (http://ne.games-workshop.com/chapter.asp?ChPlace=14))

13-08-2005, 02:26
Also remember that the entire basis of the Callidus Assasain temple is their use of the C'Tan phase sword, an alien weapon. Orks used to use bolters and their own "power armour" en masse AFAIR (Evil Sunz I believe).

EDIT: I suppose technically the C'Tan phase sword is really an alien rather than just a weapon.

13-08-2005, 02:44
Well, I'd imagine that the Assassins can get away with use of xenos tech for the following reasons
i) Assassins certainly aren't very common, and don't operate much with other forces, so it wouldn't be likely to be noticed much.
ii) C'tan phase swords are probably so advanced that almost no-one really knows how they work, even less people would know it would be Xenos tech (unlike say Ork or Eldar tech).
iii) Who the hell is going to have the balls to accuse the Officio Assassinorum of heresy anyway! Even the most puritan Ordo Xenos Inquisitor can go missing, after all.

Hideous Loon
13-08-2005, 14:06
True. They could just say that it's a DaoT weapon, and that it should be revered instead of destroyed.

13-08-2005, 15:20
Well, the Pariah gene [the gene that gives Callidus assassins their powers] was apparently implanted in the human race by the C'tan. Perhaps the C'tan left the phase sword[s] [like I know anything about them] for them.

13-08-2005, 15:22
Well, the Pariah gene [the gene that gives Callidus assassins their powers] was apparently implanted in the human race by the C'tan. Perhaps the C'tan left the phase sword[s] [like I know anything about them] for them.

No, Culexus are the Pariah temple. Callidus are the polymorphine/ C'tan phase sword ones.

13-08-2005, 15:24
Oh, sorry.

I always get Callidus and Culexus mixed up... I barely know much about either of them apart from the Culexus are Pariahs.

13-08-2005, 15:50
Hey thanks for the info Minister, I've had an interest in that book, I'll pick it up the next time I'm in town.

On Culexus, I wonder what they have in plan for the C'tan and their Necron slaves? That Alaitoc Farseer Kulcassian predicts his craftworlds destruction if he made the choice to destroy the temple.

I would have them done away with and their vile psyker destroying doctrines, but then again, I don't have the insight of a farseer. :D

13-08-2005, 16:55
Dear Commissar

For some time now I have been curious about what the different titles high ranking members of the Adeptus Astartes actually means. For example; the most revered Captain Caito Galenius of the Ultramarines is noted to be the "Master of the Marches". Others of similar high ranking are refered to as "Master of the Fleet" and "Master of the Rites" and so on.

I would be very interested to hear what these and other titles actually implies, what duties and powers come with the individual titles.

Faithfully Yours

13-08-2005, 20:49
On Culexus, I wonder what they have in plan for the C'tan and their Necron slaves?

The Culexus are the plan of the Outsider if I'm remembering correctly. Since the Pariah gene is so anti-psychic it makes the perfect weapon against chaos, a force that is the antethesis of the C'Tan.

14-08-2005, 22:13
Dear Ar-Earandur,

These titles refer to the functions of the officers, beside leading their company. The Master of the Fleet is just that, the nominal head of the whole Space Marine fleet. However considering such a fleet is seldom assembled, it is more honorary than anything else.
One more thing you should remember is that Ultramarines are the stewards of their own little empire and have thus functions that may not be repeated in other Chapters because of this. This would apply to the Master of the Marches for example.

15-08-2005, 10:25
Further to what the Commissar says, they come from a whole horde of titles and characters for the Ultra-Marines in the first Index Astartes in WD97. If I remember I'll dig out my copy tonight and post some more details tomorrow.

15-08-2005, 11:27
The titles of the Ultramarines are, as one would expect, fairly standard. Obviously the Regent of Ultramar is re-named, however the others are standard (Master of Marches, for example, is responsible for the organisation of parades and assemblies along with a few other duties both religious and mundane at chapter ceremonies). Most of them carry a little prestige in exchange for overseeing religious and/or administrative duties outwith the company.

15-08-2005, 13:21
On the matter of the Master of the Marches, our interpretations diverge strongly Minister. To me, and it seems much more logical, the Master of the Marches is the person responsible, not for military parade (you'd excuse me, but I find such a position a little silly for a Space Marine officer), but rather the borderlands, the frontier of the Ultramar empire.
That makes a lot more sense to me, but what do I know :rolleyes:

Hideous Loon
15-08-2005, 13:23
Dear Member of the Commissariat,
I have heard several people posting about "Sensei" and "Illuminati", but without mentioning who they really are. (I know about the Star Child, at least I think I do, but the Sensei and Illuminati are beyond me.)

15-08-2005, 13:32
Nothing more than a Tzeentchian cult, please report to the nearest Inquisition stronghold for punishment.


The Sensei are the children of the Emperor, literally so. They are the sons and daughters (and other descendants) he had while he was still more or less human. Sensei are immortal like their father but are sterile. They are quite powerful both physically and as psykers and are also charismatic leaders. They are immune to the predations of the warp, as is the Emperor (IIRC because the warp is filtered down by the Star Child before they use it).

The Illuminati are a secret organisations of individuals who have undergon the most terrifying experience of the universe, sharing their mind with a daemon. Illuminati have been possessed by daemons and have, one way or another, managed to cast the daemon out. This experience gives them incredible knowledge of Chaos however and makes them highly resilient to further temptation or daemonic predation. They have learnt many secrets of the universe, including the slowly dwindling strength of the Emperor.
As such they gather the Sensei under the pretense of a Long Watch against Chaos before a final confrontation, and prepare to sacrifice them when the Emperor's will to fight will break, so as to reinforce Him. The unforeseen consequence of such event is the birth of the Star Child (IIRC Illuminati do not know of its existence but I may be wrong, I'll have to check).

GW has unsuccessfully tried to kill off this plotline by presenting it as a Tzeentchian cult and right now this whole part of the fluff is in a limbo, neither officially confirmed nor denied.

Inquisitor S.
15-08-2005, 13:34
Which company does the Master of the marches command?

15-08-2005, 13:34
The Sensei are a group of people mentioned in the Inquisition Wars series (and there alone, IIRC) they are supposedly the children(somehow) of the Emperor, and I think it was mentioned somewhere about them being either psykers or blanks...

15-08-2005, 13:37
The Sensei are neither psyhic not blanks exactly. The fact that their psychic ability is filtered through the Star Child means they do not suffer from the same troubles as other psykers. And, while possessing psychic abilities, they cannot be detected by other psykers, and in particular the Emperor, as their soul does not resonate in the warp (or not in the same way as that of other psykers).

15-08-2005, 13:43
The Sensei are a group of people mentioned in the Inquisition Wars series (and there alone, IIRC) they are supposedly the children(somehow) of the Emperor, and I think it was mentioned somewhere about them being either psykers or blanks...It was originally mentioned in the original Realm of Chaos books, and did feature a bit in the IW books (but handled as ineptly as everything else!). And yeah they are blanks.

15-08-2005, 13:44
Which company does the Master of the marches command?

In the Ultramarines, the 5th

15-08-2005, 13:52
Which company does the Master of the marches command?From what I remember these were headquarters positions and hence weren't held by company commanders. But this may be wrong/ have changed.

I agree with Brusilov that it's unlikely that Master of Marches is involved with parades (that said it is Space Marines, and Ultramarines at that, so nothing would surprise!). Maybe something to do with transport is another possibility?

15-08-2005, 13:53
In the Ultramarines, the 5thI'll shut up then! :eyebrows:

15-08-2005, 19:06
Well I would agree with the good commissar with that fact that the master of the marches would be more the defender of the borders of ultramar, and commander of the fleet is pretty self explanatory. Also the only companies to have those titles are the first to fifth. And the Regent of Ultramar would always be the commander of the first company, most likely in honor of the veterans that died defending Macragge during the first tyranic war.

15-08-2005, 19:16
...... Also the only companies to have those titles are the first to fifth.......

The Master of the Rites of the Ultramarines is the Captain of the 6th Company.
What does the Master of rites do btw?

And regarding our dear Cato Galenius; is it only me that think his title could refer to logistics in some way? Perhaps my English is not as good as I would like to believe, but to do some proper Marching one would need logistics, no? Perhaps the Master of the Marches is responsible for supplying proper fotwear?

15-08-2005, 19:20
Where can i find any info on Iron Warriors backround, or Perturabo himself?
Ive read storm of iron, are there any other books about IW?

15-08-2005, 20:05
The Master of the Rites of the Ultramarines is the Captain of the 6th Company.
What does the Master of rites do btw?

Interesting, I use to have a copy of Insignium Astartes but I gave it to a friend of mine who plays Ultras. And Master of the Rites isn't in the 3rd Ed marine dex. I really need to get the new one :)

15-08-2005, 20:39
First, if you want to continue the discussion on Space Marine officer titles, please start a new thread, so as not to clog this one (as it is not its purpose).

On the matter of the Iron Warriors, I would advise Index Astartes compilation vol. 1 from GW, as it contains the article on the IW. IMHO, it's a piece of propaganda from an IW perspective, especially the Iron Cage incident (but then I'm biased in favour of the Imperial Fist). It's all interesting and contains a lot of info.

On novels, I'd advise Black Sun, Dead Sky, as it contains information on many characters from Storm of Iron

15-08-2005, 20:40
+++slightly off topic+++

Insignium Astartes

I`ve been thinking of buying that
Whats in it? Is it worth the money?