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alpha_dude
16-01-2007, 23:22
Close combat phase, warrior A gets to re roll misses (ie hellish vigour), but warrior B makes warroir A re roll successfull hits ( ie armour of damnaion)?

I can see see possibilities:
1: A rolls to hit, then rerolls misses, then is forced to reroll all successful hits
2: A rolls to hit, is forced to reroll successful hits, then is allowed to reroll misses
3: They simply cancel each other out

I would have to go with option 3 as it seems the fairest, option 1 favouring B, while option 2 favours A

Thoughts?
Has this been decided before?

RavenBloodwind
16-01-2007, 23:30
I am not aware of any FAQ on the topic.

That said, if you consider that 'A' must attack for any other events to occur, his re-rolled misses would stem from his act of attacking.

The forced reroll of successful hits requires the hits to have occurred.

Therefore, in spite of the fact it heavily favors 'B', I think your first choice is the correct one.

'A' attacks and then rerolls misses. Then "B's" armor kicks in forcing 'A' to reroll his successful hits.

Bortus
16-01-2007, 23:39
Yup I'd say number one is correct. Roll the hits, re-roll misses then re-roll the hits.

jullevi
16-01-2007, 23:46
Hasn't been answered differently in 7th edition, so i assume it's ok to use 6th edition FAQ:


Q. How do you resolve a combat where the attacker is entitled to
re-roll missed hits (e.g. Hatred) and the defending Chaos character
is wearing the Armour of Damnation (which forces the attacker to
reroll all successful hits)?

A. The attacking player rolls to hit and re-rolls misses. Then
the defending Chaos player makes the attacker re-roll all
successful attacks.
S. Warhammer Chronicles 2004 page 118

Irakaz
16-01-2007, 23:49
I see it like this

6 attacks, 4 miss - I then re-roll and score 2 more hits

I say I now have 4 hits

If my opponent had Armour of damnation I would only reroll 2 dice since you generally cant re-roll a dice more than once.

BloodiedSword
17-01-2007, 00:15
I thought the FAQ jullevi quoted was in the 7th Ed rule book errata on the GW website..

In any case, I believe that is the official standing. Personally I cannot understand why they'd make such a stupid ruling - it favours one player over the other (the defender gets a better deal out of it), it goes against one of their most fundamental rules of "you can never re-roll a re-roll" and there is a perfectly sensible alternative available.

That alternative (which is the way I house rule it) is you re-roll all misses and all hits. In other words, you re-roll all the dice. (So, the effect is that they cancel each other out and you could just skip re-rolling any dice altogether).

This does not contradict any rules and makes a hell of a lot more sense, but AFAIK the official GW stance is to re-roll all misses and then re-roll all hits, including hits from re-rolls.

greenskin
17-01-2007, 00:31
I thought you could only ever reroll a dice one time.

T10
17-01-2007, 05:52
I thought you could only ever reroll a dice one time.

That is true.

It's option #4: The player rolls to hit, then re-rolls all the dice.

A character with a re-roll to hit sword and hatred does not gain further advantage against the armour of damnation.

Its not:

Player1: I've got hatred.
Player2: I've got the Armour of Damnation, and that cancels it out.
Player1: Well, I've got this nifty re-roll to-hit sword as well, so I guess I get to re-roll those misses anyway.
Player2: Curse your fiendish cleverness!

It's:

Player1: I've got hatred. And this nifty re-roll to-hit sword.
Player2: I've got the Armour of Damnation.
Player1: I roll three hits and a miss - re-rolled to a hit with the sword.
Player2: Re-roll the three hits for the Armour.
Player1: Oh, two misses. Can I re-roll those with hatred? Oh, never mind, I've re-rolled those dice once already.

-T10

Festus
17-01-2007, 07:57
Hi

The search function gives this thread on Rerolls (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59964&page=2&highlight=reroll)...

...and T10 is right.

Festus

chivalrous
17-01-2007, 14:58
I have always played the rule that if the dice can only ever be re-reolled once then you only re-roll them once. In the case of an item clash like this then myself and my opponents usually employ the following:-

Roll the to hit dice.

Separate the rolls into hits and misses.

Player A re-rolls the misses, Player B re-rolls the hits and the results then stand.

For example:

Player A rolls 5 attack dice, 3 hit, 2 miss.

Player A re-rolls the two misses, while Player B re-rolls the three hits.

Player A's re-rolls grant him an extra hit, player B cancels two of the original hits.

The result stands at 2 hits by Player A.

No more dice are rolled or re-rolled.
*******************
There are other ways around it though:

The items cancel each other out (over simplified but speeds things up).

Dice off to decide which item gets used that player turn either A or B.

Festus
17-01-2007, 15:22
Hi

Chivalrous-

basically you are right, however it is all the same player's attacks, so he has to roll them himself usually. So the simplest solution is to roll all attacks, marvel at their beauty for a short while, and then proceed to roll them all again :D

Festus

chivalrous
17-01-2007, 15:57
Hi

Chivalrous-

basically you are right, however it is all the same player's attacks, so he has to roll them himself usually. So the simplest solution is to roll all attacks, marvel at their beauty for a short while, and then proceed to roll them all again :D

Festus

*chuckles* yep, that would be the shorter and less waffly way of saying what I said although I tend to give my opponent the honour of re-rolling my hits into misses:) , hence the player A rolls 'X', player B rolls 'Y' spiel.

Lord Inquisitor
17-01-2007, 16:11
I've not been able to fanthom the FAQ answer on this (indeed, I was confused by it when they released it). Surely "they cancel each other out" is by far the most logical answer?